Funny SKS story today at the range....$79 SKS vs. $1K FAL

I was at the range today trying out two FN/FALs that I was considering buying from one of my cop buddies..both with Imbel Receivers...overall high quality looking rifles. I had my Chinese SKS at the range with the crummy Norinco Scope. We were at the 100 yard range and both FALs were having problems with the gas block and not the slide wasn't locking back after the final rounds...we tried changing mags and adjusting the tunable gas port. I was shooting iron sites with the FALs and hitting low 6 O'clock @ 6".

I busted out my SKS that I have had since 1992 and that I know I have ran at least 5000's rounds through over the last 18 years....and not even cleaned at times. It cost me $79.99 for the SKS, and $49.99 for the Ramline Stock, I took the 30 round USA mag out and installed a fixed 10 round to avoid any issues with it as it has a PG (non folding) stock. Anyway using iron sites at 100 yards I shot 10 rounds at a time and I was shooting 1.5-3" groups in the diamond at 100 yards. I couldn't even get a group with either FALS. Now don't get me wrong I know the FN FALs and 308 is superior over the 7.62x39 round past 200 and on up to 500 yards...but who can even see a target with iron sites at that range. Bottom line the SKS at 100 yards can shoot 1.5" groups with iron sites...and my rifle IMO should be worn out. A guy with an AK 47 was next to me shooting and I checked his target...he was only shooting 50 yards..and it had holes all over the place..no groups. I heard AKs don't hold groups as well as SKS..now I believe it. SKS are longer than AK 47s too.

Just thought I would share.

So wait, you're saying you shot a rifle you've had for years better than one you are not familiar with? Color me shocked!



Guess you should stick to the SKS then.

what are you sharing again?

lol

Is that raally all you got out of what I wrote or do you just enjoy being a lurker vs. an actual shooter? I will help articulate it for you so that you don't have to read as much as I'm assuming by your response that reading comprehension is not a strong point for you...or maybe it is and you are just trying to be funny on the internet.

I also shot for the first time...a rifle I have never shot before (two weeks ago) my same friends AI AWP at 550 yards silouette range...first time...10 for 10 on target.

It doesn't really matter if I haven't shot a particular rifle before...because after a few rounds..especially with a trained sniper who regular shoots 1000 yards spotting for you. If you know how to shoot iron sites there are really easy principles to follow...especially if you just know how to make a lolly pop with the front post on the bullseye and adjust the rear or front site for that matter. So once again with the FAL...it had an mechanical issue but I couldn't get it to shoot in the same spot twice..it was not grouping..with my POS SKS pretty good groups at 100 yards...in fact one observer who is also on the Tactical Sniper Team was impressed...and he was shooting a Remington 700 next to me....I believe .50 groups...there was just really one .50"" hole in the center of his x.

This is for the SKS owners who shoot more than just an SKS to understand that regardless of what they read on the internet about SKS being junk guns that they really shoot pretty darn good for what they are.

Tactical sniper team member? sure he wasnt just a regular sniper team member? also I have shot an ak that shot better than an sks so it also depends on the rifle and shooter basically.

Your story's good to hear. Sometimes you get a rifle in which you can have a similar story with, sometimes you don't. It's not just SKS rifles. I had an old Chinese SKs that shot absolutely horribly. Wouldn't keep a group at all.

Your story isn't really a testament to the SKS rifle as a whole compared to others as much as it's more about your particular SKS doing well. Great story.

Well your pretty bad ass dude for shooting that AK better than an SKS. Thanks for commenting on my thread and letting me know who you are ahead of time. In our neck of the woods the Sniper teams shoot tactical matches...they call it Tactical Sniper but you know since your such the expert and all and being that I haven't been in Law Enforcement or the Mlitary for a long time now...you must know everything there is to know on the AR forum.

Thanks for sharing.

It was just ironic because I was really looking forward in buying one of his two rifles and for them not to work and my old SKS to perform flawlessly...I just got a laugh out of it. I'm building an AR 7.62x39 just to compare the groups to the SKS. If the owner of the FALs gets the gas block fixed and can show me that they perform reliably like they are supposed to..then I will buy it off him. But the last FAL I shot was a real one. I was trying to shoot a 1 gallon antifreeze jug of water off of fence post about 100 yards out..standing. I wasn't hitting it with my SKS, and after a couple of missed shots he handed me his FAL and said try this...1st shot the jug exploded...that was what made me want a FAL.

I have a couple of friends with great looking FAL's and it seems one friend's rifle is just a tack driver in his hands but doesn't get quite the grouping when he shoots the other friend's rifle. And both rifles are fairly similar. I'm not familiar to any degree with the FAL's but I'd imagine they also have the gremlins in a few of them.

Cool story, but I'll stick with my FAL.

There are such variances between SKS's, AK's, and even FAL's that you're bound to have some shoot different than others.

I like the my SKS's more then my FAL, but my FAL works perfectly and shoots straight. Your assertion that the SKS is superior over the FAL just because it was a bad FAL is false.

Please don't make assumptions prior to reading my first post, or at least ask for clarafication if you don't understand so that things are communicated well. I actually asserted the exact opposite of what you stated.



Devilpig, I am still going to buy the FAL once the owner sends it back to the gunsmith (builder) and then I can fire it again to test the functionality and that it is performs flawlessly and is as reliable as the FAL is supposed to be. I also would like to see the tunable gas block at a nuetral position so that I can ensure that there is some adjustment left in it. It shouldn't be maxed out to function correctly.

Enjoy your brief stay.

Which part? lol.

no not really a bad ass dude, just a reg joe. but I do have a Polish ak that out shoots my sks. I have several. and the ref to your tactical sniper comment, nevermind. I am in law enforcement so i need to go no further with you.

Looks like we have a couple of members that simply follow the misperceptions of others and post presumptuously afterwards. The OP was posting about how HIS rifle, which happened to be an old SKS rifle he's familiar with, outshot a couple of FAL rifles he's not familiar with, at a certain distance. That's all. Just a testament to his own rifle and familiarity with it at a certain distance.

Reading is fundamental. Just go back and read the OP's first post a couple of times. It'll click eventually as to what he's saying.

Well, the SKS is a capable rifle. Some will shoot very well - my Yugo M59 in my hands will hit an 8" plate at 200 yards from a sitting position most of the time.

SKSs are reputed to be VERY reliable and built like fucking tanks. I had a pretty heated discussion with a (now former) friend about the SGworks bullpup kit. He was pretty fearful of having the chamber so close to his face. Yet I have NEVER heard of an SKS going kaboom.

I don't expect my SKS to be a tack driver, and the trigger isn't all that great, but it's fun as hell, and it goes bang every fucking time.



It's ironic that the expensive FALs weren't functioning while your SKS ran great, though!

Pretty close...certainly wasn't trying to confuse anybody. To summarize.

I shot a FN/FAL Belgian about 18 years ago that was a friend of my Father in Laws...both Vietnam Vets (gotta a lotta guns). I was actually not hitting a 1 gallon jug at probably a little over 100 yards on a fence post..while standing. The guy handed me a FAL I had never shot one prior to that time...and the first shot I hit that jug no problem. Ever since then I wanted one.

Friday an LEO I know told me he had two FALs and he wanted to get rid of them. They have Imbel Recievers which although made in Brazil were licensed by FN to produce. I told him I wanted to shoot it first. I was firing one round (per mag) at a time from the prone position, a guy with a Rem 700 Nightforce setup was spotting me as I was shooting iron sites.

With both FALS I was not able to shoot a tight group like I normally can with irons on both my SKS and my Mini 14 for that matter..from prone it is pretty easy. I really want the FAL but he needs to take it back to the gunsmith CGW (builder) to check the gas blocks as there was a problem with the action locking back after the final round was fired in each mag. My other friend was on the range who owns two FAL Belgians and knew all the procedures to fix, he ran out of adjustment on the tunable gas block. So hopefully they are fixable by the gunsmith and I can pick one of them up.

I just found it a little humorous that my 18 year old, hardly maintained $79 rifle was getting 1.5-3" groups at 100 yards (10 rounds at a time) with Iron sites and so did the other guys who were around.

As for weapon familiarity it certainly helps but I also shot my friends AI AWP for the first time 2 weeks ago and went 10 for 10 on silouettes at 550 yards....didn't miss once and I never fired that gun before. Although new to this board maybe I have just been shooting for 30 years or something.

Anyway I thought since this is the SKS section of the AK47 subforum that some SKS owners might get a kick out of it. Next thing you know people are stepping up to call me a liar, say BS, compare their AK shooting skills to the SKS and how much better their FALs are. Its pretty laughable in its self just some of the responsees people have made and they didn't even bother to read what i wrote, as shooters you think they would check for accuracy. lol.

I agree. I also have asked what people's thoughts are of that Bullpup because a couple of guys mentioned if something blew up it would hit them in the face. I'm not saying it's not possible as shit happens especially if somebody had a few too many beers while reloading. lol. But I'm thinking most Bullpup configs that I have seen on any rifle place the cheek fairly close to the ejection port. SKS eject straight out or slightly forward. I have a Type 45 C&R and it would be cool to make it look like a more modern rifle. I have been eyeballing the Tapco Fusions and I have a Ramline on one of my SKS. I am building an AR 15 7.62x39 Carbine and I was thinking a SKS Bullpup would be cool also. Thanks for recognizing what I was trying to write...nice to actually converse with somebody in the SKS section.

10 round groups @ 100 yards that are 1.5" to 3" with an sks and iron sights.

I'd like to see a sks that can do that, I have a Tula with a tech sight, but it sure can't shoot 3" 10 shot groups at 100 yards. Nice shooting.

To be 100% honest with you I just joined a gun club that has 1K yard range. I normally shoot on my family's property and I just set up clays and tin cans at 100 yards and shoot them....you know off of fence posts...granted I hit them. So I was really surprised to be shooting that tight of groups with Iron Sites. Every shot I was taking my spotter was telling me 6 O'Clock low 1" or 2" etc. When we went up to pull down our paper targets I had a group. no more than 3" off of the X. He was shooting the corner target with the Rem 700 his group was just like one 1/2" hole. So I know that wasn't me lol.

Believe me I didn't really expect to have a group with the SKS at 100 yards using iron sites..I was just putting the top of the post on center target and had the rear site set to 100m, considering the company I was around...3 guys that shoot 1K yards regularly...I was kind of embarassed to even take it out..but after the debacle with the FALS I thought what the hell, and listening to them talk about it was kind of cool.

What kind of ammunition were you using?

You should be aware that putting a pistol grip stock on an SKS after 11/30/90 rendered it in violation of 18 USC 922(r).

Can you even own a 30rd mag in CA? Oh and try to not get all butt hurt when someone makes a comment about your stories, you will not last long here.

Not at all butt hurt as you so eloquently put it...and I have no issue whether I'm here or there...as with any forum there are those that simply don't read, don't understand, need additional clarafication, or are trying to push their personal agenda.

So let me clarify. I purchased everything I mentioned in 92/93'. When I checked with DOJ/Cal BATF division they told me if I owned any hi cap magazines...not matter what they were for..as long as I was the original owner I could either keep them, sell them out of state, or destroy them. I haven't purchased any new firearms post 2000 so everything I own is pre-ban. I simply removed the USA 30 Round fixed magazine (back in 2000) from the SKS because I had a 10 round fixed and wanted to avoid any questions at the range or anywhere else, as I was not getting good answers regarding it back then and simply because it is an SKS and perception of them at the time. As for the 992r parts. As for the PG stock it was put on by the FFL dealer that sold me my rifle at a gun shop in California...technically I have made no modifications to the rifle accept put back in a 10 round fixed magazine. Most of my friends are cops and/or firearms instructors..they have all checked it out and I have the compliant parts (same as TAPCO offers) for this particular rifle and the other is a Russian SKS 45 is unchanged (just wiped the cosmoline off of it) so it is C&R... no big deal there but thanks for looking out.

Buy a PSL

I'm a big SKS fan and own 0 AKs

Yeah, an the OP may join all those thousands languishing in prison on 922(r) convictions. Wait, well, maybe 922(r) charges? Oh yeah, 922(r) has never put anyone in court, I forgot!

Kind of interesting point. I purchased the rifle from an FFL who put the Ramline Stock on the rifle with the 30 round fixed mag in 1992. I took off the 30 round mag in 2000. Technically I never imported, manufactured, or assembled the rifle I purchased from the FFL. I purchased as it from him and he ordered everything for me. Besides even with a PG stock....if there was anything 992r triggered...it would be nullified by the amount of US parts that have been replaced on the rifle. But I neither assembled or imported any of it...I just stuck a 10 round fixed TAPCO mag and rod in it to go with the rest of US made parts. $100 rifle or a $5K one for that matter is not worth getting into trouble for. This post got way off topic fast. lol.

Kinda confused. You said your SKS will shoot 1.5-3" groups at 100 yards but then said you couldn't hit a milk jug at 100 yards with it. Was it the samw rifle or did you shoot 2 different SKS's?

Let us see some pics of the $80 SKS and rifle combo that shoots 10 shot 1.5" groups consistently.

I'm curious as to what ammo you are using and what that 1.5" groups looks like on that paper target.

i would like to call bullshit but i can shoot 1.5 to 2 inch groups with my norinco sks and iron sights at 100 yards no problem. I have shot other sks rifles that can't get inside of 7 inches at that range. some are better than others i guess. I certainly didn't shoot the other sks different . they just didn't group like mine does.


I always wondered why people shit talk my sks when it shoots so awesome and came to realoize not all of them shoot like that.

Not gonna call on the SKS, cuz mine's reasonably accurate, but I feel safe in calling on the story, on the grounds of trying too hard to sound "tacticool."

Really? A 10 shot group measuring 1.5" at 100 yards with a bone stock SKS and regular steel cased Wolf or "Bear" types of ammo?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=505915
I realize that this thread relates to .223 Wolf ammo, but it is still relative to the quality of steel cased imported ammo. The mechanical accuracy potential of steel cased ammo isn't anywhere near 1.5 moa at 100 yards in 7.62x39 as measured by a 10 shot group. Can you get some nice 3 shot groups that look like 1.5 moa. Sure. But that is a 3 shot group and it doesn't mean anything regarding the true accuracy of the rifle, shooter and the ammo.

Read more, post less.

Learn to type and use proper sentence structure and grammar - no one can conduct an intelligent conversation if you fail to effectively communicate your thoughts.

So you fired better with a rifle you owned for 18 years than the one you fired for the first time in your life? Gentlemen, allow me to put a stop to this idiocy. Your group size is a load of horse shit. 3 inches is possible(like fire a round and let the gun sit for a lil while), but 1.5, with what ammo? And how many rounds? If its not a 10 round group, your lying to yourself. I doubt if Jesus himself could get an SKS to fire a 10 round group into an 1.5 with 7.62X39mm ammo. I really think you should post this in the FAL sub forum.

Your OP was nothing more than a attempt to bash the FN FAL, albeit in a very slight way. Really, I could care less. I too dislike the FAL, but for my own, and possibly trivial reasons. Your post would be like saying stick shift cars suck, because you don't know how to drive a manual, and it keeps stalling... But your Kia wit an auto tranny, man that thing never stalls. See where I'm going with this?

And for the record, I can see targets with irons at 500 yards. In fact, my PTR-91K does 500 yards quite well. My norinco SKS on the other hand... Well lets just say 300 and in would be its best bet

I'm with you OP. And so are many others here. There are always dolts on any forums including this one that just like to act out. Perhaps they were monkey stomped to much growing up. Good story man, and I am lucky enough to have an SKS that shoots quite well too.

The SKS is a shockingly accurate rifle in my experience.

The SKS is a worthy battle rifle and accuracy is good with milsurp ammo.

Sure, I've seen some fairly accurate SKS's. However a bone stock sks shooting steel cased ammo isn't gonna produce 10 shot groups at 100 yards measuring 1.5" group even from a ransom rest.

The mechanical accuracy potential of steel cased ammo alone isn't capable of that accuracy. Add in the variables of a shooters ability, the non-match type iron sights found on any sks, semi-auto piston driven system, etc, sorry but its just too much not to call BS on the OP's claim of 10 shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards.

Can I make a 3 shot group at 100 yards with an SKS that is 1.5"? Sure. 3 shot groups don't reveal anything of true accuracy potential of any given rifle.

Let some of these guys lie to themselves. Theres a really good reason noone issues the SKS as a first line weapon anymore. Not even the NORKS. And your right about the mechanical accuracy of steel cased ammo. Between the inconsistent charge weights and inconsistent bullet weights, firing 1.5'' MOA at 100 yards would be filed under impossible. I can't get wolf .308 to fire into 1.5'' with 10 rounds... Out of a custom rifle that costs about 3,000.00.......

Like non-detachable magazines.

My Tula SKS gets great groups, but I am still using Nineties-era Ulyanovsk, Klimovsk, and TCW ammunition. I have yet to shoot any of the later manufactured stuff that is currently being imported.

I just bought a ton of brass-cased Lapua 7.62x39 from the Seventies, can't wait to see how it stacks up against the Nineties steel-cased Russian stuff.

To the OP, your SKS shouldn't be worn out after 5K rounds, it should just be getting broken in.

There's a really good reason no one is issuing the M1 Garand as a first line weapon anymore, either.

If you want good steel-cased ammo you'll have to get a time machine or have dealers that keep turning up stashes of the older stuff like mine does. The older stuff is very accurate in my experience, the stuff being manufactured now and imported by Wolf, not so much.

Who mentioned a Garand? I agree though, its a good reason noone uses it at a frontline weapon anymore. Except the Turkish Air Force, LOL.

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