Archived Posts » 59,646,491
Horse is amost dead? 7.62 vs. 5.45
9/23/2011 8:20:51 AM
There really needs to be a tacked thread where we can bicker over this stuff.
Im getting ready to sell my yugo m70ab2 underfolder because i didnt like the shoulder weld with the underfolder. Ive pretty much decided that i really need a nice quality sidefolder before i buy a house and have a kid in the next few months. Well, not need, but its probably going to be my last toy in a while and i wanna splurge on something cool that will keep the EBR disease satisfied for a while.
Anyhow Ive had a big dilemma lately on deciding between 7.62x39 and 5.45 x 39.
Ive never been a fan of the lack of accuracy and range of 7.62.
However Im concerned about the necessity of cleaning, the lack of penatration, and the lack of drum magazines for 5.45. ( i really want a drum mag ).
basically im wondering if i should buy some kind of sidefolding SGL-31 or 21.
Can i get a drum mag for a 5.45?
will it be hard to trade 7.62 mags and ammo for 5.45 stuff on the EE?
Will 5.45 foreign importation remain steady assuming that the government doesnt completely loose its fucking mind ( more ) ?
Bascially can somebody help me out with my final purchase decision as a financially unburdoned and time rich man?
Im getting ready to sell my yugo m70ab2 underfolder because i didnt like the shoulder weld with the underfolder. Ive pretty much decided that i really need a nice quality sidefolder before i buy a house and have a kid in the next few months. Well, not need, but its probably going to be my last toy in a while and i wanna splurge on something cool that will keep the EBR disease satisfied for a while.
Anyhow Ive had a big dilemma lately on deciding between 7.62x39 and 5.45 x 39.
Ive never been a fan of the lack of accuracy and range of 7.62.
However Im concerned about the necessity of cleaning, the lack of penatration, and the lack of drum magazines for 5.45. ( i really want a drum mag ).
basically im wondering if i should buy some kind of sidefolding SGL-31 or 21.
Can i get a drum mag for a 5.45?
will it be hard to trade 7.62 mags and ammo for 5.45 stuff on the EE?
Will 5.45 foreign importation remain steady assuming that the government doesnt completely loose its fucking mind ( more ) ?
Bascially can somebody help me out with my final purchase decision as a financially unburdoned and time rich man?
9/23/2011 8:54:34 AM
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
There really needs to be a tacked thread where we can bicker over this stuff.
Im getting ready to sell my yugo m70ab2 underfolder because i didnt like the shoulder weld with the underfolder. Ive pretty much decided that i really need a nice quality sidefolder before i buy a house and have a kid in the next few months.
Anyhow Ive had a big dilemma lately on deciding between 7.62x39 and 5.45 x 39.
Ive never been a fan of the lack of accuracy and range of 7.62.
However Im concerned about the necessity of cleaning, the lack of penatration, and the lack of drum magazines for 5.45. ( i really want a drum mag ).
basically im wondering if i should buy some kind of sidefolding SGL-31 or 21.
Can i get a drum mag for a 5.45? yes, but too expensive IMO
will it be hard to trade 7.62 mags and ammo for 5.45 stuff on the EE? shouldn't be too hard
Will 5.45 foreign importation remain steady assuming that the government doesnt completely loose its fucking mind ( more ) ? got a crystal ball? I don't either, but buy it cheap and stack it deep
Bascially can somebody help me out with my final purchase as a financially free and time rich man? yes, just buy a 21-94. it's 7.62x39 and a poly side folder. You won't be disappointed.
There really needs to be a tacked thread where we can bicker over this stuff.
Im getting ready to sell my yugo m70ab2 underfolder because i didnt like the shoulder weld with the underfolder. Ive pretty much decided that i really need a nice quality sidefolder before i buy a house and have a kid in the next few months.
Anyhow Ive had a big dilemma lately on deciding between 7.62x39 and 5.45 x 39.
Ive never been a fan of the lack of accuracy and range of 7.62.
However Im concerned about the necessity of cleaning, the lack of penatration, and the lack of drum magazines for 5.45. ( i really want a drum mag ).
basically im wondering if i should buy some kind of sidefolding SGL-31 or 21.
Can i get a drum mag for a 5.45? yes, but too expensive IMO
will it be hard to trade 7.62 mags and ammo for 5.45 stuff on the EE? shouldn't be too hard
Will 5.45 foreign importation remain steady assuming that the government doesnt completely loose its fucking mind ( more ) ? got a crystal ball? I don't either, but buy it cheap and stack it deep
Bascially can somebody help me out with my final purchase as a financially free and time rich man? yes, just buy a 21-94. it's 7.62x39 and a poly side folder. You won't be disappointed.
I'm a fan of 5.45, sold all my 7.62x39 several years ago. Not to say I think there is anything wrong with 7.62, I just really like 5.45. Good luck!
9/23/2011 2:18:45 PM
Originally Posted By nictra:
I'm a fan of 5.45, sold all my 7.62x39 several years ago. Not to say I think there is anything wrong with 7.62, I just really like 5.45. Good luck!
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
There really needs to be a tacked thread where we can bicker over this stuff.
Im getting ready to sell my yugo m70ab2 underfolder because i didnt like the shoulder weld with the underfolder. Ive pretty much decided that i really need a nice quality sidefolder before i buy a house and have a kid in the next few months.
Anyhow Ive had a big dilemma lately on deciding between 7.62x39 and 5.45 x 39.
Ive never been a fan of the lack of accuracy and range of 7.62.
However Im concerned about the necessity of cleaning, the lack of penatration, and the lack of drum magazines for 5.45. ( i really want a drum mag ).
basically im wondering if i should buy some kind of sidefolding SGL-31 or 21.
Can i get a drum mag for a 5.45? yes, but too expensive IMO
will it be hard to trade 7.62 mags and ammo for 5.45 stuff on the EE? shouldn't be too hard
Will 5.45 foreign importation remain steady assuming that the government doesnt completely loose its fucking mind ( more ) ? got a crystal ball? I don't either, but buy it cheap and stack it deep
Bascially can somebody help me out with my final purchase as a financially free and time rich man? yes, just buy a 21-94. it's 7.62x39 and a poly side folder. You won't be disappointed.
There really needs to be a tacked thread where we can bicker over this stuff.
Im getting ready to sell my yugo m70ab2 underfolder because i didnt like the shoulder weld with the underfolder. Ive pretty much decided that i really need a nice quality sidefolder before i buy a house and have a kid in the next few months.
Anyhow Ive had a big dilemma lately on deciding between 7.62x39 and 5.45 x 39.
Ive never been a fan of the lack of accuracy and range of 7.62.
However Im concerned about the necessity of cleaning, the lack of penatration, and the lack of drum magazines for 5.45. ( i really want a drum mag ).
basically im wondering if i should buy some kind of sidefolding SGL-31 or 21.
Can i get a drum mag for a 5.45? yes, but too expensive IMO
will it be hard to trade 7.62 mags and ammo for 5.45 stuff on the EE? shouldn't be too hard
Will 5.45 foreign importation remain steady assuming that the government doesnt completely loose its fucking mind ( more ) ? got a crystal ball? I don't either, but buy it cheap and stack it deep
Bascially can somebody help me out with my final purchase as a financially free and time rich man? yes, just buy a 21-94. it's 7.62x39 and a poly side folder. You won't be disappointed.
I'm a fan of 5.45, sold all my 7.62x39 several years ago. Not to say I think there is anything wrong with 7.62, I just really like 5.45. Good luck!
yeah i really like the concept of 5.45 too, enough at this point that im strongly considering trading off all of my mags and ammo to do it. Thats saying alot too, because it would be a hell of a lot easier to just swap my 7.62 AK for one with a different stock instead of basically starting from scratch.
9/24/2011 12:10:10 PM
Tastes in calibers can change pretty quick.
In the 1990s, .40 S&W was the rage and has been trending less popular ever since. In the mid 2000s, 45 ACP was all the rage. The price of ammo went up and tastes shifted to 9mm over the past few years. It depends ALOT on the supply and cost of a specific caliber.
If 5.45 dries up, that caliber will be in the dog house and while not worthless. IMO, it will be in much less demand compared with 5.56 is today - because 5.56 is still VERY widely available.
5.56 AKs were all the rage in 2005. Now, 5.56 is the red headed stepchild of AK calibers. 5.56 is not a "franken" AK calber. Bulgaria uses 5.56 in-house these days in their AKs due to NATO requirements.
IMO, 7.62 is used by more countries and while it may be less popular now because of the flood of 5.45 ammo, in the long-run it will be a better bet.
I think 5.56 AKs are the "sleeper" right now. I think they're the best deal going right now. At least 6 months ago, you could get a Bulgy 5.56 folder from Arsenal for $700.
In the 1990s, .40 S&W was the rage and has been trending less popular ever since. In the mid 2000s, 45 ACP was all the rage. The price of ammo went up and tastes shifted to 9mm over the past few years. It depends ALOT on the supply and cost of a specific caliber.
If 5.45 dries up, that caliber will be in the dog house and while not worthless. IMO, it will be in much less demand compared with 5.56 is today - because 5.56 is still VERY widely available.
5.56 AKs were all the rage in 2005. Now, 5.56 is the red headed stepchild of AK calibers. 5.56 is not a "franken" AK calber. Bulgaria uses 5.56 in-house these days in their AKs due to NATO requirements.
IMO, 7.62 is used by more countries and while it may be less popular now because of the flood of 5.45 ammo, in the long-run it will be a better bet.
I think 5.56 AKs are the "sleeper" right now. I think they're the best deal going right now. At least 6 months ago, you could get a Bulgy 5.56 folder from Arsenal for $700.
9/25/2011 3:34:29 AM
I love shooting my 5.45, mostly because I can afford to do so
9/26/2011 1:14:43 AM
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
9/26/2011 10:06:58 AM
This is just my opinion. Take it for what it is worth. If I am going to grab a 22 caliber weapon, I am gonna grab my AR...that's just me.
My AK is 7.62 and it every bit as accurate as I am. Whether that is a compliment to the AK or an insult is kinda up for grabs.
My AK is 7.62 and it every bit as accurate as I am. Whether that is a compliment to the AK or an insult is kinda up for grabs.
9/27/2011 11:09:35 PM
Originally Posted By JsbsMarine:
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
Really?
maybe he should let the Bulgarian army (circa 2011) know that...
....they adopted 5.56 with their entry into NATO in 2004
Other than the Bulgarians, I don't know a whole lot more 5.56 Ak platforms that are available to Civis in this country.
While VERY, VERY pricey, that 94 will be pretty nice
9/28/2011 9:19:54 AM
going by what some "professional" tells ya with out trying it out yourself is ridiculous IMO. Take what they say into account, sure, spread it as gospel.........
9/28/2011 10:59:13 AM
Originally Posted By JsbsMarine:
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
I recently talked with Soldier who worked with Bulgarians in Germany during training, and he got a chance to shoot their 5.56 AK's, he said he was "very impressed" by the accuracy, and that he wanted to buy one when he got home
So Larry Vickers vs. Soldier, I'd go with Soldier
9/29/2011 1:50:24 AM
Jesus do u guys not read what I wrote? The exceptions are aks specifically built around 5.56. Im guessing the Bulgarians didnt just take a 5.45 chambered ak and throw on a 5.56 barrel.
And Im not jsut saying cause he said it. The only AKs having problems during the course I took were 5.56 AKs, lots of FTFs/FTEs. One was chinese and I can't for the life of me remember where the other one was from.
None of the 5.45 or 7.62 platform had any issues.
And Im not jsut saying cause he said it. The only AKs having problems during the course I took were 5.56 AKs, lots of FTFs/FTEs. One was chinese and I can't for the life of me remember where the other one was from.
None of the 5.45 or 7.62 platform had any issues.
9/29/2011 3:36:43 PM
With the 5.56x45 AK's availiable to civilians, I'll say 5.56x45 AK's generally have more problems as a whole compared to 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 AK's. Does that mean there aren't well designed and reliable 5.56x45 AK's? Absolutely not. The Bulgarian offereings by arsenal appear to be very well made. Much better then the SAR-3 and WASR-3's. While Larry Vickers appears to a very experienced person, he is only human and can be wrong also.
9/29/2011 8:04:28 PM
Originally Posted By MAKAK47:
I recently talked with Soldier who worked with Bulgarians in Germany during training, and he got a chance to shoot their 5.56 AK's, he said he was "very impressed" by the accuracy, and that he wanted to buy one when he got home
So Larry Vickers vs. Soldier, I'd go with Soldier
I recently talked with Soldier who worked with Bulgarians in Germany during training, and he got a chance to shoot their 5.56 AK's, he said he was "very impressed" by the accuracy, and that he wanted to buy one when he got home
So Larry Vickers vs. Soldier, I'd go with Soldier
I'm curious what does your Soldier friend do, that makes him more authoritative then Larry Vickers?
9/29/2011 9:08:20 PM
Originally Posted By Krater:
I'm curious what does your Soldier friend do, that makes him more authoritative then Larry Vickers?
I'm curious what does your Soldier friend do, that makes him more authoritative then Larry Vickers?
Combat
9/30/2011 12:21:57 AM
Originally Posted By MAKAK47:
Combat
Combat
I guess somebody should let Larry know he wasn't in combat...you're volunteered.
9/30/2011 3:39:49 AM
I'll be honest, I have no idea who Larry Vickers is, nor do I really care, but the guy I'm talking about is infantry on 5th deployment, that's why I would pick him before Larry
9/30/2011 3:41:32 AM
aaahhh, just looked up Larry, ya, I'd give him the edge in knowledge then seeing he is 20 years+ background and Delta 
excuse me while I'll be reading more about him for the next 30 min
excuse me while I'll be reading more about him for the next 30 min9/30/2011 4:36:18 PM
Well fuck it...
Ive spent all weem researching all kinds and varieties of AK's. I was stuck on 5.45x39 cause its cheap and accurate but i changed my mk d and decided to go with 7.62x39 so i can have drum mags and penetration.
I was walking around my place one night and realized that in my dense apartment complex, there arent many places where i would take a shot past 200. I figure a sgl21-94 will do that easy with brass handloads and a red optic.
My other consideration was buying a vepr k and adding an ace sidefolder, pistol grip and threaded barrel so i would basically have a heavy bull barrel ak that i could run a rail mounted optic on and still fold the stock to the right. Then i figured that it would be too much weight, too much cost and trouble, and probably hard to get replacement parts and service on if i manage to break something.
Now im ready to buy a SGL21-94 but i cant figure out how yall run a rail mounted optic without it interfering with the folder???
Ive spent all weem researching all kinds and varieties of AK's. I was stuck on 5.45x39 cause its cheap and accurate but i changed my mk d and decided to go with 7.62x39 so i can have drum mags and penetration.
I was walking around my place one night and realized that in my dense apartment complex, there arent many places where i would take a shot past 200. I figure a sgl21-94 will do that easy with brass handloads and a red optic.
My other consideration was buying a vepr k and adding an ace sidefolder, pistol grip and threaded barrel so i would basically have a heavy bull barrel ak that i could run a rail mounted optic on and still fold the stock to the right. Then i figured that it would be too much weight, too much cost and trouble, and probably hard to get replacement parts and service on if i manage to break something.
Now im ready to buy a SGL21-94 but i cant figure out how yall run a rail mounted optic without it interfering with the folder???
10/1/2011 2:05:38 AM
you don't, that's the simple answer. There's absolutely no need to have it folded with an optic on the weapon. My opinion, and apparently the manufacturer's also, although it may just be a coincidence 
10/10/2011 11:27:09 PM
5.45 with a quadstack > than 7.62 w/ a drum
10/11/2011 8:50:43 AM
even 5.45 with 2 45rnd mags is greater than 7.62 w/ drum. Drum mags are cumbersome and a PITA if they're the wind up kind. I never had a wind up one that worked reliably. Could have just been the luck of the draw....
10/11/2011 5:20:53 PM
Carry a vest of 7.62x39 mags, and then a vest of 5.45 mags, and call me in the morning. Logistics plus 2600 fps + terminal velocity on tissue within 100m makes a lot of sense. When shooting AKMS and AKS-74's side-by-side, hit probability with the AKS-74 is amazing on auto...not so much with the AKM. Also, the coffin mags, if they prove reliable, will be a game-changer for the 74/100 series into the future.
There are some new developments brewing caliber-wise that might really make things interesting with Vepr and other AK-makers.
There are some new developments brewing caliber-wise that might really make things interesting with Vepr and other AK-makers.
10/13/2011 2:49:04 PM
-5,45 lacks penetration
-if you want a true AK get a 7,62
-its the original round
-and MTK himself said that 30 cal is better.
ive read this on the internet
so there.
-if you want a true AK get a 7,62
-its the original round
-and MTK himself said that 30 cal is better.
ive read this on the internet
so there.
10/13/2011 2:55:25 PM
I thought this thread was about a sick horse that you were going to shoot for a penetration test.
Disappoint.
TRG
Disappoint.
TRG
10/13/2011 5:04:22 PM
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
I thought this thread was about a sick horse that you were going to shoot for a penetration test.
Disappoint.
TRG
I thought this thread was about a sick horse that you were going to shoot for a penetration test.
Disappoint.
TRG
10/17/2011 1:13:21 PM
just as a heads up I wouldn't worry about the penetration of 5.45
My AK74 will shoot though any tree my friends 47 will. They are both nasty...
My AK74 will shoot though any tree my friends 47 will. They are both nasty...
10/18/2011 9:55:03 AM
Originally Posted By MAKAK47:
I recently talked with Soldier who worked with Bulgarians in Germany during training, and he got a chance to shoot their 5.56 AK's, he said he was "very impressed" by the accuracy, and that he wanted to buy one when he got home
So Larry Vickers vs. Soldier, I'd go with Soldier
Originally Posted By JsbsMarine:
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
Im saving up for an sgl31-94. If Im going to buy a 5.45 imma buy it nice.
That said, id seriously pass on 5.56. Lots of other better platforms out there for that caliber. And in a course I took, Larry vickers really gave the thumbs down to the 5.56 AK for various reasons. The few exceptions are the AK variants that were actually built around the 5.56 and not the 5.45 rechambered into the 5.56
Just some food for thought.
I recently talked with Soldier who worked with Bulgarians in Germany during training, and he got a chance to shoot their 5.56 AK's, he said he was "very impressed" by the accuracy, and that he wanted to buy one when he got home
So Larry Vickers vs. Soldier, I'd go with Soldier
Last time I've checked Larry Vickers had put in 26 years as SF Soldier. Just saying.
