SA 85M Questions:

I just traded for a Brand new, unfired Hungarian SA 85M at a local gun show and was wondering. Even though I am very familiar with and love my MAC 90s which this seems quite simliar, does anyone know if there any issues with these rifles I should know and obviously don't because it is my first? I know I thought my MAC's had really nice factory triggers this Hungarian trigger is match quality. I simply could not beleive it. I havn't had a chance to shoot it yet and destroy it's virgin status because of getting home so late from the show and I probably won't be able to tomarrow for the same reason. It looks and feels like a very fine rifle but with no experience with these rifles I would appreciate any info I can get on it. Any help with this topic (good or bad) and hopefully from someone with known facts and not just hear'say would be greatly a
appreciated. Thanks for any and all help on this matter......

Does anyone know what and where I could get a correct sling for the SA85M ??????

Congrats. You have acquired one of the finest AKs ever made.

I have never heard of any problems with them, and had no problems with the one I had.

Well I am glad to hear that. I have been kind of nervous because no one has told me anything yet . I have always been a fan of the Mak 90 because the ones I have have really nice triggers from the factory and they just run and run with no issues. I traded for this because it looked pretty simaliar to the Mak and the trigger was nicer yet than even my best Mak. I still havn't fired it yet because I was waiting on some kind of feed back and I guess I was afraid I would be dissapointed. Tomarrow when I get off work I guess it's time to fire it up and see if it will shoot with those rickshaw rags I got standing over there. Thanks for the input and if anyone has any kind of info, important or otherwise please drop me a line and give me your 2 Cent's........

Copy that. I have one I shoot with the standard length gas tube. Many were imported with a bastard short length tube- but no detriment to function.

The fit, finish, and quality are really super when combined with the pure functionality of the design.

The Hungarian SA 85M is a very nice stamped AKM variant. I had an unfired KBI, with the normal gas tube, however I gladly traded it off for a very nice but not new milled MAK 90 with a spring loaded firing pin. To me, the Chinese guns are the best, & I have 3 MAK's. 2 milled, & 1 stamped. GARY N4KVE

Wow, I finally fired it and sighted it in at 110yds and it is scary accurate. It is so easy to control with that slick as glass trigger. I have a Mak 90 also that I have always held very high on smoothness, perfect function and excellent accuracy. But I think I have found it's superior. It is no longer un-fired which is kind of sad, but to really appreciate them you HAVE TO SHOOT THEM. Thanks for the info gents, and any other that might come by way of this post. Still need a correct sling for this thing and don't even know what they look like. any help here would be great also.....Thanks again.....

IIRC it is green with tan leather "clasps" for lack of knowing proper term. I'll try to dig it up and post a pic for you tomorrow. Not sure where you can score one.

That sounds like a Chinese SKS sling, but I have no idea so yeah post a pic if you can...Thanks

They are very nice stamped AK's

Pretty for a AK.

Here we go.

I dug these up.

I think I was wrong earlier. This picture shows two Chinese slings on the left, and what I believe to be the original slings that came with my NIB KBI import post-ban, and my pre-ban NIB Kassnar import underfolder.



Here is a close up of both of the Hungarian ones.





Hope that helps, and sorry for steering you wrong.

Don't even worry bout steering me wrong because I had no idea where I was going in the first place. Now with that said The close ups of what came with your Hungarian look just like the Bulgarian slings that came with all my new SLR 106 FR and 107.... Now I am really confused. Is it possable that they used the same ones?? II just want to be sure befor somebody tries to rip me off on a (NON CORRECT) sling when I buy one. This rifle is until finally getting to shoot it showroom condition unfired Post ban beauty. It is definately a keeper I just want to sling it correctly and seems like the more I find out the more nervous I get. Someday when I hand all my weapons down to my son I just want them to be correct.....Thanks for your help man and I hope you understand why I'm thinking the way I am......

Those are Bulgarian. The Kassnar would have come with a red and a white bottle.

Yup- I think I have too many AK slings here, forgot about the Arsenal slings I had.

I do have red and white bottles floating around, I just never kept them or the slings with the rifles. I truly think the green ones on the left are one chinese (cause it exactly matches a spare I bought from PolyTech parts years ago) and the other from one of the Hungarians. After digging down thru the sling box again I found another green one with no Chinese rifle to match it too. Also a gray East German without an daddy. A ton of black ones, and a couple leather.

I guess the best I got is only a guess and it remains my original answer- green canvas with tan leather as pictured in my first pic on the left, spittin' image of the Chinese to the casual observer.

The world may never know..............I appreciate the hell out of your help gentlemen. Just got to figure out where to go from here.......

You have scored probably the nicest stamped AK ever imported. This is because in the 'sporterized' thumbhole stock version, it is all-FEG. FEG was the maker of the Hungarian military small arms for many years. Your rifle came off the same assembly lines, used many of the same parts and was put together by the same people who made the mil rifles. It was correctly made so there are no misalignments or 'canted' parts like sights or gas lugs. It was proofed and sighted in. I kind of messed mine up before I knew what I had, so I ended up making it an AMD63. I got mine in '95 from J&G sales for $299. I can put mine into 'pre-ban' configuration just by removing the 'naked' gas tube and pistol grip forearm and putting back the original gas tube and handguards. I had to go with some USA internal parts (trigger, hammer, disconnector plus a USA magazine) for 922r compliance, but the Tapco G2 FCG set works just as slick as the original parts. Notice how your bolt, carrier and top cover are numbered to the gun.

ETA: I forgot about the sling. The leather one shown is genuine Hungarian military. These are now widely available cheap because of all the AMD65 kits imported. As I remember, the original web sling furnished with my SA85M was gray with nickel hardware.

That rifle looks just like mine except for the AMD front end. If that is an original military sling , I know what I'm looking for now........Thanks a bunch..

Are you saying your rifle looks like this?



Or this?



The top one is mine in 'pre-ban' configuration, and the lower one is how it was new.
If your rifle looks like the 'pre-ban', it's either a real pre-ban or a clone that somebody made from the thumbhole-stock version. If it's an exact clone, the serial number can tell whether it's pre or post ban. None of these were brought in after the ban expired in 2004 - some SA2000Ms were imported during and after the ban. You can easily see on mine that it's not a real pre-ban because it lacks the cleaning rod retaing ears on the front sight base as well as the bayonet lug on the gas block. You can also see the lack of those features on the 'AMD63' version above.

It looks almost just like the top one except for the fact that there was no sling, no box and mine has the under barrel lugs with the cleaning rod installed. It is marked Kassnar, but he had nothing else. No mags, no paperwork, no bayonet, no nothing but the gun with the cleaning rod installed. When he said it had never been fired I checked it very closely and couldn't see any even small sign that it has ever had a round or a mag inserted in it. Now I have since fired it exactly 20 rounds and you can see the signs of rounds hitting ramp, mag insertion and paint rubs on trigger and hammer and slight rub marks on bolt carrier from movement. He told me it was given to him by his mother after his father passed and he is not a gun guy by any meens and the way I got it I have 400.00 in it in trade value and bought 2 other guns from him he aquired the same way but I was very familiar with them. Nothing special. I own several AK's but never even seen one of these which sparked the questions. Now it will assume its place in my arsenal but must be completed with an authentic sling. I rarely ever shoulder a rifle but from time to time I find it almost necessary.

Is the finish blued?

If it is marked Kassner it is pre-ban. Go to the Charles Daly - KBI Kassner and they will help you with any questions, serial numbers and parts. They are the original KBI company.


I love my SA85m, I bought it new in '90 or so. I added K-VAR furniture.





The Kassnar Imports SA-85M guns were imported into the US in 1986. All 7,000 of them. All are 100% pre-ban.

The KBI SA-85M's were all imported into the US well after the Bush ban of 1989. None were caught in Customs. Any KBI marked SA-85M's with pre-ban features must have been (illegally) modified. Do not believe what anyone else tells you to the contrary. All KBI narked SA-85M's are post-ban.

In many cases where you see KBI marked SA-85M's with pre-ban features, those pre-ban features are not original FEG components.

The above statements are unequivocal. There are no exceptions.
__________________
Michael Kassnar, President
K.B.I., Inc.

good looking AMD 63.

You have scored big-time. It's a pre-ban valued at about $1800 or more. Please make no changes at all to it. Yes, the leather sling would be correct. With that rifle, you will want a new or near-new one - shouldn't be too hard to find. Hungarian 20 and 30-rd steel mags are also plentiful. I have drooled gallons over the few I have seen at gun shows in the past, but you don't see them much any more - they're all sleeping in gun safes.

'good looking AMD 63.'

Thank you. As you can imagine, the trick is the naked gas tube, which you have to make out of a standard tube. I used a vented Bulgarian tube.

Oh I don't plan on changing anything, I just don't see any need. Like I stated earlier it is no longer a virgin because I have fired it. As far as I am concerned that's the only way to really appreciate a firearm. I only collect and I use the term loosly, firearms that I use. If it don't get fired it finds another home. Anyway this proved to me just how nice a rifle it really is. It impressed me very much, but I still need a sling because there are times when I have to shoulder a weapon to keep moving. And now thanks to you guys I know what to look for. I don't really care if it is new or even almost new because I am going to use it. As long as it is mechanically sound and safe I'll be happy. All my AK's & SKS's and even my VZ2000 have correct slings. And yep, they all get shot. I have built myself several AR's and even though they are very fine rifles they just aren't the same on top of being more expensive to shoot. Oh by the way I have at least 4 dozen Hungarian 20 rnd mags but I use them mostly in my 13 inch AKM pistol. Thank you everyone with all the help and if one of you guys have one of those slings drop me an e-mail at bootlegger@iquest.net with a price and hopefully a pic and I'll take it off your hands obviously for a fair price. Thanks again......Jeff

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