What parts are you guys swaping out to allow european mags?
I really want an AMD but refuse to use the tapco mags they come with. The ones I usually see are TGI and only have a Tapco trigger group and Tapco mags to make it compliant. Are there any quality American mags that I am not aware of? Thanks.
American AK mags suck. Period. I changed out the rear pistol grip.
922R Compliance
3 - FCG
1 - Pistol Grip
1 - Receiver
1 - Muzzle brake/extension
That's 6 parts.
Rear pistol grip only, thats the only one that counts. Change follower and floor plate of the european mags. Along with the fire control group that will give you the magic number.
AK Builder has a US stainless gas piston for the AMD-65. I bought one,but haven't installed it yet. He also has a nice muzzle brake too. I have one of those in route too.
I avoided the whole thing by going SBR. with that....I can use original mags being NFA supercedes 922.
sooooo school me a bit. I bought my AMD from Aim. What do I have to be compliant with? I bought some used Hungarian mags from Sportsmans guide. Can I use them? I'm a bit confused on this issue.
Originally Posted By ljh824:
sooooo school me a bit. I bought my AMD from Aim. What do I have to be compliant with? I bought some used Hungarian mags from Sportsmans guide. Can I use them? I'm a bit confused on this issue.
922r requires 6 USA made parts with a stamped receiver and 5 USA made parts with a milled receiver. If you bought it assembled a from an FFL I assume It's already compliant. AMD's have a stamped receiver +1, trigger, hammer, disconnector +3, that's 4 outta 6. Most likely the piston has been replaced with an American made one. A USA made pistol grip is also an easy swap to achieve 922r compliance. USA made muzzle breaks are also an easy option, if it's an AMD-65 it's necessary because the barrel is too short for 922r compliance. If it's an AMD-63 a Tapco slant break is cheap. You can also replace the handguard for another point. As long as you use any combination of these modifications to equal 6 points feel free to use the Hungarian mags. You can also swap out the magazine base plate and follower for USA made parts for an extra point each and keep the Hungarian body. If I were to do and AMD build from a parts kit, here's what I would do to be compliant; NDS receiver +1, USA made muzzle break +1, Tapco or NDS trigger group +3, and a USA made magazine follower or base.
Originally Posted By 7point62by39:
Originally Posted By ljh824:
sooooo school me a bit. I bought my AMD from Aim. What do I have to be compliant with? I bought some used Hungarian mags from Sportsmans guide. Can I use them? I'm a bit confused on this issue.
922r requires 6 USA made parts with a stamped receiver and 5 USA made parts with a milled receiver. If you bought it assembled a from an FFL I assume It's already compliant. AMD's have a stamped receiver +1, trigger, hammer, disconnector +3, that's 4 outta 6. Most likely the piston has been replaced with an American made one. A USA made pistol grip is also an easy swap to achieve 922r compliance. USA made muzzle breaks are also an easy option, if it's an AMD-65 it's necessary because the barrel is too short for 922r compliance. If it's an AMD-63 a Tapco slant break is cheap. You can also replace the handguard for another point. As long as you use any combination of these modifications to equal 6 points feel free to use the Hungarian mags. You can also swap out the magazine base plate and follower for USA made parts for an extra point each and keep the Hungarian body. If I were to do and AMD build from a parts kit, here's what I would do to be compliant; NDS receiver +1, USA made muzzle break +1, Tapco or NDS trigger group +3, and a USA made magazine follower or base.
Thanks for the info. I checked and yes, mine is compliant. At first I thought I was one short, but then I saw the Tapco trigger.
If you're buying an AM2D-65 from AIM, the receiver is original FEG and is thus not American, so I believe that the receiver does not count toward
the 922 total. Of course if I'm wrong, someone please tell me because I'm trying to learn also.
My TGI is running
Ironwood pistol grip
Ironwood handguards
Tapco FCG
Originally Posted By anteken:
If you're buying an AM2D-65 from AIM, the receiver is original FEG and is thus not American, so I believe that the receiver does not count toward
the 922 total. Of course if I'm wrong, someone please tell me because I'm trying to learn also.
The AIM AMD65 has an FEG receiver. So you can't count it as an American part. The mag they send counts as 3 US parts. the FCG counting as the other 3 US parts. In order to use forieign mags you will need to swap out the rear pistol grip, gas piston, and the break. OR, you could just use US floor plates and follower in your foreign mags, that would also count as 2 US parts, and change out 1 of the other 3 parts mentioned. Of course, you could just use the ProMag they send, I have never had a problem with them. I know other have though.
For my AMD-65 build, I used a post-ban, K.B.I. SA-85M receiver and the following U.S. made parts;
A) Red Star Trigger, Hammer and Sear
B) Custom made extended Muzzle Brake
C) TAPCO Gas Piston
D) Ironwood Beech Wood Pistol Grip
Since I own both a fixed and folding stock pre-ban Hungarian SA-85M rifles, that was the main reason why I went with using the post-ban K.B.I. receiver.
I thought that if the muzzle brake is welded on, it does not count as a seperate part of the barrel.
Originally Posted By ppd1107:
I thought that if the muzzle brake is welded on, it does not count as a seperate part of the barrel.
I believe that is correct. Do the TGI rifles use a US or foreign barrel?
The new mags from US Palm look like they might be promising. Basically made by Tango Down.
Originally Posted By Mak:
Originally Posted By ppd1107:
I thought that if the muzzle brake is welded on, it does not count as a seperate part of the barrel.
I believe that is correct. Do the TGI rifles use a US or foreign barrel?
I have one beening shipped as we speak. I think it is the original barrel but I don't know for sure. I suppose the US made barrell will be marked clearly.
No USA barrels as far as I know on these kits. I think all of you need to review the 922 checklist. First, 922 does not require any USA parts - it's about limiting foreign (imported) parts. Obviously the opposite of 'imported' is 'domestic' so some imported parts have to be replaced with domestic parts to make the gun compliant. The only number you are concerned with is '10', the maximum number of imported parts allowed of the 16 countable parts. If you have a USA receiver, the list of countable parts is reduced to 15. If your muzzle brake/barrel extension is welded on, the list is reduced to 14. If you have a USA three-piece FCG, the list is reduced to 11. If you then have a magazine with one USA part, the list is at 10 and you're good. With an FEG receiver, you'll need another USA part in that mag, so I would get some KVAR Bulgarian waffles with USA followers and floorplates. I would never take an authentic Hungarian part out of the gun in order to use a complete imported magazine - anyone who would has their priorities mixed up.
The reason I want to make my rifle compliant without the magazine, is so I can buy, borrow or pickup any magazine out there and still be legal. I think that there is a time coming where we will have to be very careful about following gun laws.
Not a bad thought, but all you ever need anyway for range/home defense use is one or two mags. If you're talking about a SHTF situation, then gun laws don't really matter any more. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 99% of everybody with a 922 gun have plenty of military mags available for use but they use their compliance mags in public. That's all you have to do. The gas piston is not easy to change and the AMD-65 takes a special short one. I would leave all internal parts alone and play the magazine game.
...
It's to be in possession of the gun. So you have to leave the required magazine in it even in storage. Know the compliance formula for your gun, write it down and keep it with it. You don't want to get tripped up on a technicality by some over-zealous G-man.
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
It's to be in possession of the gun. So you have to leave the required magazine in it even in storage. Know the compliance formula for your gun, write it down and keep it with it. You don't want to get tripped up on a technicality by some over-zealous G-man.
If a U.S. made magazine is removed from an AK-47, does the rifle become non-compliant?
No. According to Section 922-R, what makes an AK-47 non-compliant is the number of foreign made parts from a specified list of parts. You may not have more than 10 of these restricted foreign parts (Sec 922R). So removing a US made magazine would have no effect on the number of restricted foreign parts. The reason why it could be beneficial to change your foreign magazine with a US made magazine is that using the foreign magazine counts as 3 restricted parts (floorplate, follower, magazine body). So it is the removal of the foreign magazine from your rifle that affects compliance with the law, not the insertion or removal of the US made magazine
Would replacing both front and rear pistol grips on an AMD 65 count as 2 compliant parts?
Originally Posted By 84cj:
Would replacing both front and rear pistol grips on an AMD 65 count as 2 compliant parts?
No, front one doesn't count, I believe.
Originally Posted By Mak:
Originally Posted By ppd1107:
I thought that if the muzzle brake is welded on, it does not count as a seperate part of the barrel.
I believe that is correct. Do the TGI rifles use a US or foreign barrel?
Barrel is Hungarian.
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Not a bad thought, but all you ever need anyway for range/home defense use is one or two mags. If you're talking about a SHTF situation, then gun laws don't really matter any more. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 99% of everybody with a 922 gun have plenty of military mags available for use but they use their compliance mags in public. That's all you have to do. The gas piston is not easy to change and the AMD-65 takes a special short one. I would leave all internal parts alone and play the magazine game.
It's a bad idea to "test" all of your setup after the disaster has occured. I did not get this rifle to play around with.
'If a U.S. made magazine is removed from an AK-47, does the rifle become non-compliant?
No. According to Section 922-R, what makes an AK-47 non-compliant is the number of foreign made parts from a specified list of parts. You may not have more than 10 of these restricted foreign parts (Sec 922R). So removing a US made magazine would have no effect on the number of restricted foreign parts. The reason why it could be beneficial to change your foreign magazine with a US made magazine is that using the foreign magazine counts as 3 restricted parts (floorplate, follower, magazine body). So it is the removal of the foreign magazine from your rifle that affects compliance with the law, not the insertion or removal of the US made magazine'
This is bullshit. The three magazine parts are on the countable parts list. If your compliance scheme requires USA parts in the mag, then removing the mag makes the gun non-compliant just as it would if you removed any other required USA part. Why in the hell do you think KVAR sells USA-made followers and springs for Bulgarian waffle mags?
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
'If a U.S. made magazine is removed from an AK-47, does the rifle become non-compliant?
No. According to Section 922-R, what makes an AK-47 non-compliant is the number of foreign made parts from a specified list of parts. You may not have more than 10 of these restricted foreign parts (Sec 922R). So removing a US made magazine would have no effect on the number of restricted foreign parts. The reason why it could be beneficial to change your foreign magazine with a US made magazine is that using the foreign magazine counts as 3 restricted parts (floorplate, follower, magazine body). So it is the removal of the foreign magazine from your rifle that affects compliance with the law, not the insertion or removal of the US made magazine'
This is bullshit. The three magazine parts are on the countable parts list. If your compliance scheme requires USA parts in the mag, then removing the mag makes the gun non-compliant just as it would if you removed any other required USA part. Why in the hell do you think KVAR sells USA-made followers and springs for Bulgarian waffle mags?
Springs, when did springs become a countable part?
The statement is not BS. If you remove the mag from the weapon, whether the mag contains US parts or foreign parts, you have reduced the number of parts on the weapon.
You stated you must:
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
It's to be in possession of the gun. So you have to leave the required magazine in it even in storage. Know the compliance formula for your gun, write it down and keep it with it. You don't want to get tripped up on a technicality by some over-zealous G-man.
Show me where this statement in red is in any law. It would be kind of hard to reload that mag while it is still inserted into the rifle wouldn't it? US or foreign, once you remove the magazine from the magwell you have just reduced the total number of parts in the rifle.
Think about the statement I quoted above.
If the magazine in the rifle is a US magazine and you remove it from the rifle you haven't removed any foreign parts. You have reduced the total number of parts.
If the magazine inserted into the rifle is foreign the rifle still must have no more than 10 imported parts. When you then remove the magazine it will still have less than 10 imported parts if it had less than 10 imported parts when the magazine was in the rifle.
The rifle doesn't grow imported parts by magic when you remove the magazine from the magwell.
Another way to look at it:
You build a rifle with a US fire control group and a foreign magazine using a US baseplate and follower. With the magazine inserted into the rifle with a stamped receiver and no muzzle threads and brake. The rifle is legal as it has no more than 10 imported parts in this configuration.
Now take the magazine out of the magwell and throw it away.
The rifle as it sits with no magazine inserted is still legal as it still contains less than the magic number of imported parts for an AK.
'Springs' was a typo. The three countable magazine parts are obviously the body, follower and floorplate. That's an interesting thought, in the academic sense, about removing the magazine not affecting the compliance of the rifle. I had never thought about it like that, because the rifle must have the magazine to be fully functional. So, it's right that removing the magazine cannot make the rifle non-compliant.
As to the fore-grip, there is a widely-circulated opinion letter from BATFE explaining that the fore-grip is part of the forearm (lower handguard) and as such is not a separate countable part.
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
'Springs' was an error. The three countable magazine parts are the body, follower and floorplate.
You still haven't defended your statement on the quote I posted that you called
BS.
If a rifle is legal with any magazine inserted, the rifle must still be legal when that magazine is removed. And it will be.
The only time it isn't legal is if you are depending on US parts in the magazine to meet compliance and then you insert a magazine
without those same compliance parts installed
into the rifle.
See above revision.
Changing a gas piston is extremely easy.
If you've ever drilled something with a drill bit,
Used a hammer and punch,
Used a pair of channel lock pliers,
or hammered a nail,
and possibly used a vise,
you can change a gas piston.
Some of you guys are way off track.
Yes, the parts count is 16, but that is a maximum of 16, 6 of which must be made in the US. If you have a milled receiver, then the gun doesn't have a front trunnion and you would only have 15 parts and need 5 US parts for a de-ban project. I know it doesn't apply to AMDs, but it illustrates my point that the number of parts you need depends on your gun's configuration. In the extreme, a milled MAK-90 would only have 14 countable parts, 4 of which would have to be made in the US if the rifle is "de-banned".
Most, if not all, AMDs being sold now have barrels less than 16" when assembled. To comply with Federal minimum barrel length (not requiring SBR registration), builders install muzzle brakes permanently. This makes the brake part of the barrel and no longer counts for 922, thus the AMD only has 15 parts and required 5 US parts.
So, you have two possibilities...the AMDs with US receivers and those with FEG receivers. The AMDs with US receivers would only need one more part to stay compliant, while those with FEG receivers would need two parts. Removing the current brake and replacing it - permanently - with a US-made brake will not change anything since it becomes part of the foreign barrel. For those with US receivers - like me - the easiest thing to do is replace the followers with those from Arsenal. It's not a big deal, it's cheap, it's fast, it will not decrease the reliability. I just made the investment and replaced all the followers in my mags with Arsenal followers so I don't have to keep track of which ones have been modified and which haven't. I then use them in all my parts counts. It wasn't like it broke the bank either since KVAR has sales where you can get them in sets of ten for just a few dollars.
For those with FEG receivers, you could replace the followers and the gas piston or get pistol grips from Ironwood.
Originally Posted By CarlosC:
Some of you guys are way off track.
Yes, the parts count is 16, but that is a maximum of 16, 6 of which must be made in the US. If you have a milled receiver, then the gun doesn't have a front trunnion and you would only have 15 parts and need 5 US parts for a de-ban project. I know it doesn't apply to AMDs, but it illustrates my point that the number of parts you need depends on your gun's configuration. In the extreme, a milled MAK-90 would only have 14 countable parts, 4 of which would have to be made in the US if the rifle is "de-banned".
Most, if not all, AMDs being sold now have barrels less than 16" when assembled. To comply with Federal minimum barrel length (not requiring SBR registration), builders install muzzle brakes permanently. This makes the brake part of the barrel and no longer counts for 922, thus the AMD only has 15 parts and required 5 US parts.
So, you have two possibilities...the AMDs with US receivers and those with FEG receivers. The AMDs with US receivers would only need one more part to stay compliant, while those with FEG receivers would need two parts. Removing the current brake and replacing it - permanently - with a US-made brake will not change anything since it becomes part of the foreign barrel. For those with US receivers - like me - the easiest thing to do is replace the followers with those from Arsenal. It's not a big deal, it's cheap, it's fast, it will not decrease the reliability. I just made the investment and replaced all the followers in my mags with Arsenal followers so I don't have to keep track of which ones have been modified and which haven't. I then use them in all my parts counts. It wasn't like it broke the bank either since KVAR has sales where you can get them in sets of ten for just a few dollars.
For those with FEG receivers, you could replace the followers and the gas piston or get pistol grips from Ironwood.
+1
My FEG 65 is running ironwood pg and handguard.
Does anyone here have any firsthand information about someone getting popped for running a non-US mag in a rifle which requires a US mag for compliance? Barring firsthand information, can anyone point me toward a published news story about such an event?
I've only met a few LEOs when I've been out in the boonies shooting, but the majority of my exchanges have been friendly and polite. Not a one asked me how many US parts I was running, or whether something was pre- or post-ban, or anything of the sort.
I'm not advocating breaking any laws. But my gut says in 99 times out of a hundred, the only person at the scene who will care about the number of US parts in an AK is the fella who built it.
Originally Posted By DirtyBird:
Does anyone here have any firsthand information about someone getting popped for running a non-US mag in a rifle which requires a US mag for compliance? Barring firsthand information, can anyone point me toward a published news story about such an event?
I've only met a few LEOs when I've been out in the boonies shooting, but the majority of my exchanges have been friendly and polite. Not a one asked me how many US parts I was running, or whether something was pre- or post-ban, or anything of the sort.
I'm not advocating breaking any laws. But my gut says in 99 times out of a hundred, the only person at the scene who will care about the number of US parts in an AK is the fella who built it.
You're probably right, but do you want to chance it? This might come as a shock to some, but most police officers have no idea about any of the things you mentioned above... I work with a lot of them. I'd worry more about running into an ATF agent that knows their stuff than I would any local LEO's. A lot of that stuff (922R etc.) just isn't taught to LEO's, and the most a lot of them know are just about barrel lengths, etc. (if that!).
Carlos: I agree, and was going to point it out too. The "formula" I use and have written in my head for standard configuration AK's is this:
milled w/imported brake = 5 parts
milled w/US or permanent brake = 4 parts
stamped w/imported brake = 6 parts
stamped w/US or permanent brake = 5 parts
