Archived Posts » 59,726,163
is this mount incompatible with my scope clamp?
12/23/2011 12:23:44 AM
I picked up a POSP scope and having issues getting a tight fit on my mount. Once on the clamp is on the rail mount as far forward as it will go, there's still a lot of up/down play, even with the clamp closed. I read the tutorials here on how to adjust the clamp screw but I have a feeling this AK mount is not made for this type of clamp. POSP manual talks about a rear CLOSED pin which I don't see.
Before I mess with it any further and damage something thought I'd check in with the experts.
here is the scope and mount:
thanks,
jason
Before I mess with it any further and damage something thought I'd check in with the experts.
here is the scope and mount:
thanks,
jason
12/23/2011 12:43:56 AM
I have seen these AK mounts that were adjusted so tightly that the bottom of the mount bowed up under the pressure of the clamp. Yours looks perfectly straight so I suspect you are not tightening it enough for it to get a good hold on your rail.
12/23/2011 12:48:48 AM
Originally Posted By dragunov:
I have seen these AK mounts that were adjusted so tightly that the bottom of the mount bowed up under the pressure of the clamp. Yours looks perfectly straight so I suspect you are not tightening it enough for it to get a good hold on your rail.
I have seen these AK mounts that were adjusted so tightly that the bottom of the mount bowed up under the pressure of the clamp. Yours looks perfectly straight so I suspect you are not tightening it enough for it to get a good hold on your rail.
thanks, what about this rear CLOSED pin the manual talks about? My mount seems to have a "ramp" at the rear.
12/23/2011 10:17:41 AM
I think you are going to have a problem.
Thats a Lancaster rifle? (I've got one also.)
Two things that I see. One with the rail and one with the scope mount.
We'll start with the rail.......It is not a true Russian copy. The ends are beveled (sloped). If you look at your scope, the rear is made with a flat end to it which is supposed to butt solidly up against the end of a normal rail which is square.
Second point with the mount.....Not really an issue but other mounts I've seen are not made to butt on the end as described above but lock into the center curved detent with a cam type bolt. When properly mounted the cam will engage into the center curve of the rail and effectively lock it into place. Your mount does not have this as its designed to work with the squared off rail that is normal surplus.
So I'm going to say you are out of luck. These two are incompatible together. Neither are 100% wrong. They're just not going to work together.
BTW....the rail is an aftermarket aluminium one and not surplus. I don't know why Lancaster used these, but the holes also don't match up with surplus rails. I've thought about replacing mine but then I'd have to drill new holes and such. Not worth the problems for me anyway.
Let me see if I can dig up some pictures or links for you. I'll add them to another post.
ETA: Here is what a normal Russian rail looks like. Open the larger image. See the square ends?
K-var R-47B
Here is one for a different mount. Not saying its what you need for your scope. Just that it has the cam lock which I mentioned above.
Mount Scroll through the pictures of the mount.
See the brass colored cam? When the arm is moved into the locked position the cam will spin into the center curved area of the rail. That locks it into place where your mount is based on friction with rail AND locking against the rear square end of the rail to keep it from sliding under recoil.
Hope this all helps explain it! Regardless of how tight you cinch down on this rail I think it will still move front to back under recoil. I had the same problem with another mount that did not have the center cam lock with my Lancaster. It had to go to another gun with a real Russian style rail.
Thats a Lancaster rifle? (I've got one also.)
Two things that I see. One with the rail and one with the scope mount.
We'll start with the rail.......It is not a true Russian copy. The ends are beveled (sloped). If you look at your scope, the rear is made with a flat end to it which is supposed to butt solidly up against the end of a normal rail which is square.
Second point with the mount.....Not really an issue but other mounts I've seen are not made to butt on the end as described above but lock into the center curved detent with a cam type bolt. When properly mounted the cam will engage into the center curve of the rail and effectively lock it into place. Your mount does not have this as its designed to work with the squared off rail that is normal surplus.
So I'm going to say you are out of luck. These two are incompatible together. Neither are 100% wrong. They're just not going to work together.
BTW....the rail is an aftermarket aluminium one and not surplus. I don't know why Lancaster used these, but the holes also don't match up with surplus rails. I've thought about replacing mine but then I'd have to drill new holes and such. Not worth the problems for me anyway.
Let me see if I can dig up some pictures or links for you. I'll add them to another post.
ETA: Here is what a normal Russian rail looks like. Open the larger image. See the square ends?
K-var R-47B
Here is one for a different mount. Not saying its what you need for your scope. Just that it has the cam lock which I mentioned above.
Mount Scroll through the pictures of the mount.
See the brass colored cam? When the arm is moved into the locked position the cam will spin into the center curved area of the rail. That locks it into place where your mount is based on friction with rail AND locking against the rear square end of the rail to keep it from sliding under recoil.
Hope this all helps explain it! Regardless of how tight you cinch down on this rail I think it will still move front to back under recoil. I had the same problem with another mount that did not have the center cam lock with my Lancaster. It had to go to another gun with a real Russian style rail.
12/23/2011 11:17:44 AM
I have seen some companies selling that type of mount. Centerfire systems sells them and describes them as a Chinese mount. I dont know about Lancaster but I think the Hendersons had the same mount. I always wondered how a scope would mount on them. Perhaps an SVD or SKS type mount with a locking pin would work.
12/23/2011 11:23:57 AM
Originally Posted By mks99:
I think you are going to have a problem.
Thats a Lancaster rifle? (I've got one also.)
Two things that I see. One with the rail and one with the scope mount.
We'll start with the rail.......It is not a true Russian copy. The ends are beveled (sloped). If you look at your scope, the rear is made with a flat end to it which is supposed to butt solidly up against the end of a normal rail which is square.
Second point with the mount.....Not really an issue but other mounts I've seen are not made to butt on the end as described above but lock into the center curved detent with a cam type bolt. When properly mounted the cam will engage into the center curve of the rail and effectively lock it into place. Your mount does not have this as its designed to work with the squared off rail that is normal surplus.
So I'm going to say you are out of luck. These two are incompatible together. Neither are 100% wrong. They're just not going to work together.
BTW....the rail is an aftermarket aluminium one and not surplus. I don't know why Lancaster used these, but the holes also don't match up with surplus rails. I've thought about replacing mine but then I'd have to drill new holes and such. Not worth the problems for me anyway.
Let me see if I can dig up some pictures or links for you. I'll add them to another post.
ETA: Here is what a normal Russian rail looks like. Open the larger image. See the square ends?
K-var R-47B
Here is one for a different mount. Not saying its what you need for your scope. Just that it has the cam lock which I mentioned above.
Mount Scroll through the pictures of the mount.
See the brass colored cam? When the arm is moved into the locked position the cam will spin into the center curved area of the rail. That locks it into place where your mount is based on friction with rail AND locking against the rear square end of the rail to keep it from sliding under recoil.
Hope this all helps explain it! Regardless of how tight you cinch down on this rail I think it will still move front to back under recoil. I had the same problem with another mount that did not have the center cam lock with my Lancaster. It had to go to another gun with a real Russian style rail.
I think you are going to have a problem.
Thats a Lancaster rifle? (I've got one also.)
Two things that I see. One with the rail and one with the scope mount.
We'll start with the rail.......It is not a true Russian copy. The ends are beveled (sloped). If you look at your scope, the rear is made with a flat end to it which is supposed to butt solidly up against the end of a normal rail which is square.
Second point with the mount.....Not really an issue but other mounts I've seen are not made to butt on the end as described above but lock into the center curved detent with a cam type bolt. When properly mounted the cam will engage into the center curve of the rail and effectively lock it into place. Your mount does not have this as its designed to work with the squared off rail that is normal surplus.
So I'm going to say you are out of luck. These two are incompatible together. Neither are 100% wrong. They're just not going to work together.
BTW....the rail is an aftermarket aluminium one and not surplus. I don't know why Lancaster used these, but the holes also don't match up with surplus rails. I've thought about replacing mine but then I'd have to drill new holes and such. Not worth the problems for me anyway.
Let me see if I can dig up some pictures or links for you. I'll add them to another post.
ETA: Here is what a normal Russian rail looks like. Open the larger image. See the square ends?
K-var R-47B
Here is one for a different mount. Not saying its what you need for your scope. Just that it has the cam lock which I mentioned above.
Mount Scroll through the pictures of the mount.
See the brass colored cam? When the arm is moved into the locked position the cam will spin into the center curved area of the rail. That locks it into place where your mount is based on friction with rail AND locking against the rear square end of the rail to keep it from sliding under recoil.
Hope this all helps explain it! Regardless of how tight you cinch down on this rail I think it will still move front to back under recoil. I had the same problem with another mount that did not have the center cam lock with my Lancaster. It had to go to another gun with a real Russian style rail.
Thanks, yes it is a Lancaster but the mount was added on later by my gunsmith. I don't have time/energy to chase down a new mount and take it back to smith, so what if I where to dremel off that rear slope into a more 90* stop like in the picture? Since the recoil will push the scope forward (towards muzzle), the sharper edge should work right?
I'm new to AKs and this whole mounting system baffles me. I thought the MP5's were bad! In the AR world we take for granted our rails..
12/23/2011 12:50:20 PM
Thanks, yes it is a Lancaster but the mount was added on later by my gunsmith. I don't have time/energy to chase down a new mount and take it back to smith, so what if I where to dremel off that rear slope into a more 90* stop like in the picture? Since the recoil will push the scope forward (towards muzzle), the sharper edge should work right?
I'm new to AKs and this whole mounting system baffles me. I thought the MP5's were bad! In the AR world we take for granted our rails..
Not sure on what the dremeling would do to it. Yeah, makes sense, just don't know how you would do it. If you could stay back well enough from the rivet hole I would guess this would work. Your call on this one for sure!
The Kalinka mounts would be my choice (with the cam lock) as being the easiest way. That's just me and I'd put the other mount up on EE to recoup the cost. Best of luck.
12/23/2011 1:01:16 PM
12/23/2011 2:50:12 PM
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
Dug this out of the archives for you:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/125612_.html
Dug this out of the archives for you:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/125612_.html
wow, what a coincidence! My AK is indeed a Lancaster, but they had nothing to do with this mount. It was done by a gunsmith in Houston. He told me he put in a "standard" AK mount ($4 parts $30 labor). Lancasters must be cursed as these awful ramps seems to chase them
I'm going the dremel route and will report back.. worst case I'll just replace the damn thing, at least the holes have been drilled for me now.
12/24/2011 12:41:13 AM
There, I fixed it 
Observations:
- I can see the scope is not directly centered over the barrel, it's about 1/4" inch left of center, presumably from the downward clamp force pulling the scope away from the receiver.
- There is a noticeable bowing of the clamp from the screw pressure. I tried very carefully not to overtighten.
- Will take to the range next to test for recoil and zero
- What a PIA it is to mount optics on AKs!
Observations:
- I can see the scope is not directly centered over the barrel, it's about 1/4" inch left of center, presumably from the downward clamp force pulling the scope away from the receiver.
- There is a noticeable bowing of the clamp from the screw pressure. I tried very carefully not to overtighten.
- Will take to the range next to test for recoil and zero
- What a PIA it is to mount optics on AKs!
12/24/2011 8:40:24 AM
Originally Posted By jason934:
- What a PIA it is to mount optics on AKs!
- What a PIA it is to mount optics on AKs!
I think you ended up in a quirky situation, it's usually not that tricky
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_56/116492_AK_with_optics_picture_thread.html&page=1#i919761
Z
12/26/2011 2:10:18 PM
The clamp is made from cast iron and WILL break, as it is not meant to spring back and forth to create the necessary tension between it and the rail. Especially the width that you are asking the clamp to span (notice the bend in the lower part).
I learned this the hard way, so learn from my fail on this man...
I learned this the hard way, so learn from my fail on this man...
12/26/2011 3:49:46 PM
Originally Posted By GlockA-Molee:
The clamp is made from cast iron and WILL break, as it is not meant to spring back and forth to create the necessary tension between it and the rail. Especially the width that you are asking the clamp to span (notice the bend in the lower part).
I learned this the hard way, so learn from my fail on this man...
The clamp is made from cast iron and WILL break, as it is not meant to spring back and forth to create the necessary tension between it and the rail. Especially the width that you are asking the clamp to span (notice the bend in the lower part).
I learned this the hard way, so learn from my fail on this man...
this whole scope and mount system is full of fail! the entire optic looks like its hammered from pot steel, i'm done messing with it. If it breaks it goes into the trash and I'm done with optics on this rifle.
12/26/2011 9:37:26 PM
I have owned many AK's and many side mount optics...and have never had a problem. The Germans and Russians have used this style mounting for sometime with great success. The problem is not your optic and not AK's, and the side mount system of mounting optics. The problem is you bought a piece of shit Lancaster rifle.
12/26/2011 11:56:01 PM
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
I have owned many AK's and many side mount optics...and have never had a problem. The Germans and Russians have used this style mounting for sometime with great success. The problem is not your optic and not AK's, and the side mount system of mounting optics. The problem is you bought a piece of shit Lancaster rifle.
I have owned many AK's and many side mount optics...and have never had a problem. The Germans and Russians have used this style mounting for sometime with great success. The problem is not your optic and not AK's, and the side mount system of mounting optics. The problem is you bought a piece of shit Lancaster rifle.
As I mentioned before, the mount did not come from Lancaster, this was something I did here locally in TX by an amateur gunsmith who probably bought some POS mount on ebay or had one laying around. The rifle itselft has been great, no issues other than the barrel threads not being concentric to the bore and causing baffle strikes (I replaced the barrel with a high standard US made and can works now).
anyway, I'm going to shoot it with the scope and see what happens. If it comes lose I'm going to give it to one of the range guys to play with and stick to irons, I've already spent way too much time on this project; would rather be shooting and not typing
