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5.45x39 Brass Cased Ammo - No one wants it?
4/8/2011 12:35:09 PM
Hey All,
Last year I contaced Hornady and Federal about the possibility of making 5.45x39 Brass cased ammo, I figured it was something that was in the works but the answer I got from both companies was shocking...
I was told that I was the FIRST person to even inquire about this and that they didn't realize there was any need/want for this caliber!!!!
Certainly I can not be the only person to want brass cased 5.45x39 ammo!?
While I know the surplus stuff is cheap (I've got lots of it), I would love to be able to reload my own 5.45x39 ammo. I reload most all of the ammo I fire nowadays with the ever increasing cost of commercial ammo it costs me about 1/2 the price to make my own. I would love to get away from corrosive ammo all together in my AK-74, but that leaves me with very few choices. I've also thought many times about getting a 5.45x39 upper for my AR15, but the corrosive ammo has kept me away from that option.
So chime in, is there really no one else that would like to see Brass cased 5.45x39 ammo made? Is there no one that would like to reload this caliber?
If there is other's that would like this, we need to be contacting the american ammo manufactures hard this year to let them know we want it!
-Masta
Last year I contaced Hornady and Federal about the possibility of making 5.45x39 Brass cased ammo, I figured it was something that was in the works but the answer I got from both companies was shocking...
I was told that I was the FIRST person to even inquire about this and that they didn't realize there was any need/want for this caliber!!!!
Certainly I can not be the only person to want brass cased 5.45x39 ammo!?
While I know the surplus stuff is cheap (I've got lots of it), I would love to be able to reload my own 5.45x39 ammo. I reload most all of the ammo I fire nowadays with the ever increasing cost of commercial ammo it costs me about 1/2 the price to make my own. I would love to get away from corrosive ammo all together in my AK-74, but that leaves me with very few choices. I've also thought many times about getting a 5.45x39 upper for my AR15, but the corrosive ammo has kept me away from that option.
So chime in, is there really no one else that would like to see Brass cased 5.45x39 ammo made? Is there no one that would like to reload this caliber?
If there is other's that would like this, we need to be contacting the american ammo manufactures hard this year to let them know we want it!
-Masta
4/8/2011 1:06:59 PM
I can't see any situation where one would be able to reload for less than .08rd. People bought too much surplus when it was cheap. Even current surplus stuff is only .11rd.
4/8/2011 1:49:47 PM
Really. I don't think enough people want brass cases in this caliber to entice the manufacturers into making it. Those who do reload for this caliber reform .222 Rem cases... If anyone did manufacture this caliber in brass, expect it to retail for a buck a round. Who's going to pay that? Why do you think Hornady is using steel cases? They are trying to keep the price point down low enough that people will buy it... Besides, you ever try chasing down all the empty cases from an AK? Mine throw them everywhere, near and far. I stopped reloading 7.62x39mm brass partly because I always lost a few each range session...
1DD
1DD
4/8/2011 4:51:18 PM
There was a time when the same things were said about 7.62, but we have brass cased 7.62 now..
While $0.11/Round is cheap, it's corrosive. Non-Corrosive is about $0.17-$0.20/round. I can reload .223 for $0.17/round. So why would it not be possible to reload 5.45x39 for about the same price?
$1.00/round is a bit extreme. Even .223 never got that high.
-Masta
While $0.11/Round is cheap, it's corrosive. Non-Corrosive is about $0.17-$0.20/round. I can reload .223 for $0.17/round. So why would it not be possible to reload 5.45x39 for about the same price?
$1.00/round is a bit extreme. Even .223 never got that high.
-Masta
4/8/2011 6:55:15 PM
Until they stop importing surplus ammo the cost basis is pointless.
4/8/2011 11:37:01 PM
Oh well. I tried. LOL
Thanks for the input everyone.
-Masta
Thanks for the input everyone.
-Masta
4/9/2011 9:09:38 PM
There are just not that many people shooting 5.45 compared to 7.62x39mm and .223/5.56. You get some price break on just the economy of scale manufacturing 7.62 and .223 componants, plus there are oodles of surplus 5.56 cases available... You can reload brass cased 5.45 for your $.17 per round figure, if you don't count the startup costs (die set, which have come down in price recently and bullet sizing die) and labor (reforming cases). Take your .223 case and resize it, trim it and you are ready to load it. Take your .224" projectiles and size them down to .221" and load them... It's all about the effort you want to spend doing it.
I think the 5.45 is slowly gaining popularity and eventually the tipping point will be reached where brass cased 5.45 will happen. For my needs, surplus and commercial Russian 5.45 does everything I want out of my AK-74. I can reform brass and handload ammunition more accurate than my AK can shoot, but why? I've also made "Mexican Match" using Russian cases and .224" projectiles sized down to .221". It's a good way to get tracers, M-855 (improved penetration!) and hollow point/soft point loads cheap without worrying about losing the brass in the weeds...
I'm a huge fan of the 5.45 and it's my go-to rifle/caliber for SHTF, but brass cased ammunition for it is low on the list of things I'm looking for.
1DD
I think the 5.45 is slowly gaining popularity and eventually the tipping point will be reached where brass cased 5.45 will happen. For my needs, surplus and commercial Russian 5.45 does everything I want out of my AK-74. I can reform brass and handload ammunition more accurate than my AK can shoot, but why? I've also made "Mexican Match" using Russian cases and .224" projectiles sized down to .221". It's a good way to get tracers, M-855 (improved penetration!) and hollow point/soft point loads cheap without worrying about losing the brass in the weeds...
I'm a huge fan of the 5.45 and it's my go-to rifle/caliber for SHTF, but brass cased ammunition for it is low on the list of things I'm looking for.
1DD
4/11/2011 12:36:36 AM
It would be interesting to see how much better a handload could do compared to the Mil-Surp.
My 5.45 won't keep pace with my WOA, but at 100 yards it will score 10s without a problem. It just won't do as many Xs as well prepared .223.
So, I wonder what would develop with hand loads?
The whole point of setting up the 5.45x39 was to make a cheap short range training gun for the kid. It works fine for this purpose and anyone who tries this rig wants one.
When she can bang on this rig all day at .13 a shot, and it will hold 10s, it makes sense.
I don't know if the sales numbers on 5.45 will justify the investment they would make, but I would be just as interested as I was once I had 7.62x39 hardware.
Back in January, there was a post here about the Savage 25 bolt action that uses the 5.45x39 round. I don't have one yet, but I don't expect it to shoot much better than my AR 5.45x39 unless there is better ammo.
My 5.45 won't keep pace with my WOA, but at 100 yards it will score 10s without a problem. It just won't do as many Xs as well prepared .223.
So, I wonder what would develop with hand loads?
The whole point of setting up the 5.45x39 was to make a cheap short range training gun for the kid. It works fine for this purpose and anyone who tries this rig wants one.
When she can bang on this rig all day at .13 a shot, and it will hold 10s, it makes sense.
I don't know if the sales numbers on 5.45 will justify the investment they would make, but I would be just as interested as I was once I had 7.62x39 hardware.
Back in January, there was a post here about the Savage 25 bolt action that uses the 5.45x39 round. I don't have one yet, but I don't expect it to shoot much better than my AR 5.45x39 unless there is better ammo.
4/11/2011 3:24:56 PM
I think we are all going about this a bit wrong.
I don't think that Federal or Winchester or Remington will ever make brass cased ammo, it would be nice to see some real "accuracy" out of the round and some good newer bullets but this is not going to happen anytime soon-I started shooting this round in 1998
BUT who we DO need to bug is Privi Partisan––they DO make a brass cased FMJ over in Europe and they sell their 5.56 ammo and pistol ammo all over the place to sell it here.
It would probably be areound $300 a case like their 5.56 but i bet it would be a heck of a lot more accurate than Wolf from Tula or Barnaul or Ulyanosk, but that is just my opinion.
I personally shoot the Wolf non-corrosive for $175 a case, I have some from when it was $150 so the difference to corrosive is not that much to me nor worth haveing to clean everytime I shoot an AK.
I still would like to see some more variety, I tried the Hornady and it is ok, but nothing better than the Wolf for accuracy
I don't think that Federal or Winchester or Remington will ever make brass cased ammo, it would be nice to see some real "accuracy" out of the round and some good newer bullets but this is not going to happen anytime soon-I started shooting this round in 1998
BUT who we DO need to bug is Privi Partisan––they DO make a brass cased FMJ over in Europe and they sell their 5.56 ammo and pistol ammo all over the place to sell it here.
It would probably be areound $300 a case like their 5.56 but i bet it would be a heck of a lot more accurate than Wolf from Tula or Barnaul or Ulyanosk, but that is just my opinion.
I personally shoot the Wolf non-corrosive for $175 a case, I have some from when it was $150 so the difference to corrosive is not that much to me nor worth haveing to clean everytime I shoot an AK.
I still would like to see some more variety, I tried the Hornady and it is ok, but nothing better than the Wolf for accuracy
4/11/2011 4:23:16 PM
Wipeout had a solid point, cheap ammo is hard to beat, even though with reloaded you would get a better quality and non-corrosive.
For me, I dont reload at all currently. I would be better off shooting .11/round ammo, than investing a few hundred in a reloading kit, to then make ammo that is probably going to cost you .11/round to make, not to mention the time investment, all in the sake of possibly better quality ammo.
I can see myself supporting the cause if and when I get a reloading set up, but that money would go farther for me personally in other expenditures at the moment.
For me, I dont reload at all currently. I would be better off shooting .11/round ammo, than investing a few hundred in a reloading kit, to then make ammo that is probably going to cost you .11/round to make, not to mention the time investment, all in the sake of possibly better quality ammo.
I can see myself supporting the cause if and when I get a reloading set up, but that money would go farther for me personally in other expenditures at the moment.
4/11/2011 8:27:12 PM
A few years back, someone posted that they spoke with Prvi Partisan about having brass 5.45 cases made and was told that a minimum order would be one million rounds (new, empty cases). What you need to do is bug the ammunition importers to get them to order from Prvi... I doubt that even though Prvi makes the round, it's not a high volume item like 5.45, so they would have to get a large order to get them to set up for this caliber so it could be sold at a price people would pay...
1DD
1DD
4/12/2011 10:46:30 AM
Buddy over at Sturmgewehr sent out an e-mail you could respond to at Privi and tell them to import the ammo.
A million rounds is only one thousand cases––I think one thousand people who shoot 5.45 AK's and AR's would try it out, I would. Not trying to take away from the cheap surplus but I think people would try a little out and see how it shoots. I would think especially the AR users would like it so they would not have to worry about steel and lacquer issues.
A million rounds is only one thousand cases––I think one thousand people who shoot 5.45 AK's and AR's would try it out, I would. Not trying to take away from the cheap surplus but I think people would try a little out and see how it shoots. I would think especially the AR users would like it so they would not have to worry about steel and lacquer issues.
4/12/2011 11:03:16 AM
Originally Posted By MastaMarksman:
Oh well. I tried. LOL
Thanks for the input everyone.
-Masta
Oh well. I tried. LOL
Thanks for the input everyone.
-Masta
I'm in for a case or so.
4/12/2011 4:10:07 PM
Originally Posted By BullittBoy:
Buddy over at Sturmgewehr sent out an e-mail you could respond to at Privi and tell them to import the ammo.
A million rounds is only one thousand cases––I think one thousand people who shoot 5.45 AK's and AR's would try it out, I would. Not trying to take away from the cheap surplus but I think people would try a little out and see how it shoots. I would think especially the AR users would like it so they would not have to worry about steel and lacquer issues.
Buddy over at Sturmgewehr sent out an e-mail you could respond to at Privi and tell them to import the ammo.
A million rounds is only one thousand cases––I think one thousand people who shoot 5.45 AK's and AR's would try it out, I would. Not trying to take away from the cheap surplus but I think people would try a little out and see how it shoots. I would think especially the AR users would like it so they would not have to worry about steel and lacquer issues.
+1 I agree 100%.
I was not aware that Privi made a brass cased 5.45 round. This is definitly something worth trying to push.
I wonder if AIM would have any interest?
Does anyone know the right people to contact?
-Masta
4/12/2011 5:49:22 PM
Buffalo shows 5.45 brass on their site, not cheap though...
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,670.html
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,670.html
4/12/2011 9:10:47 PM
Those are swedged down from a larger case and reworked. I have not heard anything good about them, price notwithstanding...
1DD
1DD
4/14/2011 3:03:43 PM
I would be excited about the prospect of brass cased 5.45 as well, especially with that Savage 25 Varminter chambered in 5.45 x 39mm coming out
4/14/2011 4:29:15 PM
4/17/2011 1:24:53 AM
Good to know. Have made some out of .222 brass, but its not something I care to do very often.
Originally Posted By 1Devildog:
Those are swedged down from a larger case and reworked. I have not heard anything good about them, price notwithstanding...
1DD
Those are swedged down from a larger case and reworked. I have not heard anything good about them, price notwithstanding...
1DD
4/18/2011 2:43:38 PM
+3 (cases, that is) for around $175-200/case non-corrosive! Just started reloading, and I figure the cheap mil-surp will dry up soon enough, especially a more discover what a great round this is.
) for around $175-200/case non-corrosive! Just started reloading, and I figure the cheap mil-surp will dry up soon enough, especially a more discover what a great round this is.