what do you use CLP or Grease

hi all what of this products you use to lubricate ak47 ?

Grease
CLP
Motor Oil

(if your answer is grease where do you put grease is the rifle)

AKs should not be greased. The armies that issued AKs issued oil bottles, not grease containers.
I use LSA. I've also used 10 weight machine oil, 10weight motor oil and 10W30.
I've also used 2 cycle motor oil once 'cause that's what was available.
Save your grease for M1 rifles and wheel bearings.

Depends on the user.

Thin oil-type lubes run off, evaporate, get slung off moving parts, and dry out.
Grease stays where it's put, won't evaporate or sling off, and doesn't dry out.

Grease makes most rifles run a little smoother and decreases wear from friction because it stays put. The rifle is smoother in operation, and you'll see less wear on moving parts like the bolt and carrier.
It "can" get fouled with crud, but most people who care about their guns don't allow them to get that dirty without cleaning them.

To grease, apply a thin coat of any good heat and water resistant grease. Walmart Lithium or Moly-lithium is as good as any $5.00 a tiny jar "gun grease".

Apply to:
The bolt locking lugs, cam lugs and "tail" where it fits into the carrier.
To the camming surfaces of the carrier and the grooves that fit into the receiver.
The front face of the hammer.
The trigger, sear, and hammer contact surfaces.
The recoil spring.

The manual calls for oil.

The closest oil I know of to the issue Sov stuff is Aeroshell Fluid 18, a hydraulic oil with corrosion preventing additives

$26 per gallon here: http://www.shellaviationstore.com/order/displaytype.cfm?type=AF&bus_unit=&doc=&bus_desc=&show=asp_menu

I just use CLP.

BSW

The Soviets/Russians probably wouldn't want to issue grease anyways because of the risk of soldiers just slopping it on rather than applying a thin layer as directed.

I doubt the Russians used grease primarily because grease and arctic cold weather do not mix. That and logistics.

That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a quality gun grease on an AK applied to the high friction areas. TW25B is excellent for this and Weapons Shield has a new weapons specific grease they are about to release that should be worth a try.

The East Germans did not have to worry about artic cold. Neither did the Poles etc., etc., etc.
None of those countries issued grease for the purpose of lubricating AKs. All of them specfied oil.
The most reasonable explaination is that, as someone else said, grease and sand (or any other gritty substance) is the equivalent of valve lapping compound.
If you don't shoot your rifle in a clean room and you wouldn't spread valve lapping compound on the bearing surfaces don't use grease.

How do you think the new Weapons Shield grease will stack up against TW25 and Tetra Gun Grease?

QUCIK!!!! Someone tell John Garand he screwed-up before another straw-man is harmed!!

Again, I think with the commies, it was simple logistics and the not so savvy nature of their typical end-users.

Perhaps as in the case with the Field Manual for the M-1 and M-14. If you are in a desert, you revert to oil only.

Again, I think grease is obviously superior in most circumstances. Why would it work on the former weapons and not on the AK that was partially derived from the Garand?

If there is any emperical evidence that grease will harm the AK with a climitologically and geologically appropriate application, I would like to see it. All I have seen so far is speculation.

As to how the WS grease will stack-up? Time will tell but if George Fennel is involved, it will be good.

The Garand requires grease to keep functioning in adverse conditions. According to the books I've read, finding a grease that would prevent seizing during tropical rainstorms was a major problem. The roller bolt that was eventually implemented on the M14 was intended to solve the problem.

Use grease if you want to on an AK, but it isn't necessary.

BSW

Even though the M-14 has the roller on the bolt, the FM still specifies grease for the high load bearing areas most of the time.

It cerainly isn't necessary but it will help reduce wear.

OK, I'll say it. JG screwed up. In the pursuit of an unecessary degree of accuracy he made the clearances so tight the users discovered they needed required grease to keep the rifle running. That was a mistake MK did not make.

If you think logistics is the reason that the Soviets and other users didn't issue grease, you'd better read the Soviet manual and think again.
The Soviets issued TWO (2) types of oil, one for general use and one for use in cold conditions, just as the US Army did. It would have been no more difficult to issue grease (for general use) and oil (for cold conditions) than it would be to issue two types of oil. And it would just as difficult to supervise the troops and ensure they used the correct lubricant no matter which type was used.

It's clear to me that some people think they know more about the rifle than MK and the Soviet Army did. It's also clear that some people can't tell an AK from an M1.
Strangely, they're often the same people!

Of course there is no empirical data. The armies that issued the rifle didn't use grease. They knew better. Most of us (like those in charge of those armies) don't need anything more than common sense to tell us that grease and grit aren't a good mix.
I'm sure that you seen the videos of people testing AKs by pouring sand in them and shooting them.
Why don't you develop your own data. Apply grease, add sand, shoot a case or three, adding grease and sand as apprpriate. Report the results.
That way you no longer have to speculate that grease won't harm an AK.

What were the characteristics of the cold weather oil vs the normal oil i.e. was it thinner as to resist gunking up in the cold?

What do you think is the best all around lube for us to use? CLP? LP?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=53&t=104342

KK66 has a great post in that thread.

BSW

Why should I apply sand? I do not live in a desert. If I did live in a desert, why would I just not use oil, knowing I live in a desert? Kind of like wearing a coat in the winter and not in the summer, you just know when you should and should not.

Please explain how sand is going to magically jump into my rifle in such a manner as to ruin it where it did not ruin M-14 and M-1 rifles used uder similar field conditions for decades?



Should we also dump sand into a well-greased M-14? It seems decades later, the M-14 chose the same lubrication order that JG did in the 1930's, a lube order that includes grease to this day.



Yep, the same straw people you keep dragging into threads.

Mobil 1 for my AKs. Never a problem, runs just fine all of the time.

You don't lve where it's sandy so it's all right for everyone else to apply grease? I missed the part of your post that said don't grease the rifle if you live where it's sandy. Instead I saw a blanket statement.
Since there's no sand in your area, use the local soil instesd. Report the results. The burden of proof is on those who advocate using unproven methods. You haven't borne the burden.
And since you didn't get it when someone else told you, grease was not the first choice for lubricating M 1 and M 14 rifles. It was used because the Army discovered that M 1s didn't run reliably without it.

Were you ever issued either of those rifles by the Army?
I was. Before 1965 I carried an M 14. Guess what? We had to clean our rifles EVERY day, whether it had been fired or not. I don't suppose that might have had anything to do with the fact that airborne matter collected on the greased surfaces, did it?

The facts are as follows: No army that issued AKs has ever found it necessary to apply grease to an AK. AKs have built a reputation for reliability that is better than any rifle ever made in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) without being greased. AKs have built a reputation for durability and longevity without being greased.

"ZOMG!!! Don't use modern stuff on guns designed 60 years ago or they'll explodez!!!! Mikhail Kalashnikov didn't have Breakfree CLP, MPro-7, Slip2000, or Militec and if you put it on your AK it'll seize up and die really bad and stuff."



I use grease and CLP, depending on the part, on all of my firearms, including my WASR.

I generally use grease on my AK siderails and CLP on the bolt and where the bolt rides in the carrier. I also put grease on the face of the hammer where the bolt carrier contacts it while cycling. In my experience, it cycles more smoothly. Everything gets wiped with CLP.


Works fine for me in my climates at my shooting ranges. Your mileage may vary. Do not apply directly to skin. For external use only. Do not eat. All rights reserved. (C) 2009

The Soviets had grease 60 years ago. If it was needed for proper function of the AK they would have specified its use, like the USA did with the Garand. BSW

I infer that "winter lubrication No.21" (from the Soviet manual) was/is thinner than general issue "rifle lubricating oil" (also from the Soviet manual). That inference is supported by the fact that the Soviets diluted "winter lubrication No.21" when faced with temperatures below 40 degrees C.

I cannot make a valid recommendation regarding the choice of CLP or LP. I have not used either product. I bought a lifetime supply of LSA decades ago.
I wold observe that any lubricant that is capable of keeping an AR rifle running should be more than sufficient for the less demanding AK in all but the harshest conditions.

CLP seems to work fine for mine.

Those who wish to obtain the Soviet service manual can find it at www.box.net/shared/cu2djae1zb
The address is courtesy of briansmithwins.

EDIT: Made Hot-HM

I said as environmental(climatological) and geologic conditions dictate or did that go right past you? Why should I put dirt into the action? Even low crawling in most of my environment, a bit of loamy soil and a pine needle or two is the most I will encounter int the action of my rifle most of the time. Humidity is my main enemy here in what is largely a messic oak-pine dominated forestland interspersed with pastureland, a bit of light residential and light urban landuses, not dust and rarely mud. I do understand my local environment and it is not 'lapping or grinding compound'. I have looked at soil typing maps of my local area(for other purposes) I can even give you the Dekalb series on most of my county with a minimal bit of reaserch.

As a matter of a fact, I was issued an M-14. It came out of the stock once a season. Until then, it stayed in the stock, crap and all. Cleaned thru the muzzle and what I coud get with a q-tip and on the outside.




Unlike the typical Soviet conscript, I will not be issued a free replacement when my reciever wears beyond spec. It pays to make my gear last.

The nice thing about a bit of grease is it stays put. 6 months later, it is still there. CLP will be long gone by then.

Another thing. I use TW-25B and Tetra. This stuff ain't the plasti-lube or the lubri-plate you were issued back in the 12th century.

Again, I never said it was needed for proper function. It will likely function dry as a bone.

Anyone here remember what happend to the M-1 rifles during the Battle of Chosin Resivoir? I think that would be a typical Russian winter climate.

Apparently you've forgotten what you said.

"Strawman" must be a new word for you. You keep misusing it.
Let me define it for you. A strawman is a false proposition that one fabricates and then knocks down oneself.

The only things I've knocked down so far in this thread: the notion that AKs are not greased due to cold (your speculation), the notion that AKs are not greased due to logistics (your speculation), the notion that AKs are not greased due to the level of troop training (your speculation),
and the notion that grease is good for an AK because grease is necessary for an M1 (your "conclusion").

I don't need to set up strawmen. You keep setting up easy targets.

[quote]Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
As a matter of a fact, I was issued an M-14. It came out of the stock once a season. Until then, it stayed in the stock, crap and all. Cleaned thru the muzzle and what I coud get with a q-tip and on the outside.
/quote]


Apparently, you were issued a rifle but were never issued any cartridges and were never allowed to fire it!
Rifles that were fired were cleaned immediately after firing was finished and once a day thereafter for three days.
Rifles were field stripped before cleaning commenced.

See, I told you that I didn't need to set up strawmen when you keep providing easy targets.

My maint. schedule was different because I had different needs. Rest assured, It was issued to me along with nearly all the ammo I could possibly want pretty much on demand. Please don't attempt to apply your limited experience to others.

A person with normal reading comprehension could correctly infer that if you live in an arctic tundra or a desert, don't use it.

Like stating I argued that grease was necessary for the AK to function and then arguing against it. Please point out where I argued it was necessary? Do you even understand what you write? Yes, And I never offered it as anything but speculation. You still haven't offered any evidence my speculation was wrong but then again, it is only speculation and was never offered as anything but speculation since I never even attempted to offer a source for it. If I had had a source, it would have not been speculation. But please, feel free to mail MTK and prove me wrong.

Again, I never offered it as anything but speculation. You still haven't offered any evidence my speculation was wrong but then again, it is only speculation and was never offered as anything but speculation. Again, I am waiting for you to porvide the low stand of proof to knock down my speculation.



Again, I never said any such thing. Let me spell it out for you since you seem to be inable to comprehend anything of any significant complexity: "Sometime grease is a better choice as a lubricant that oil for your AK from a longevity standpoint. This is situation specific depending on your area of operation and your specific needs. There are times when grease will provide a better friction barrier than oil. We have many modern grease class lubricants available to us today that John Garand and Soviet Russia did not. We should not strictly limit ourselves to a 6 decade oid lubrication order meant for a different class of end user."




With the definition of a strawman right at your fingertips, you still cannot comprehend it. Those targets are your own men and you keep shooting them in the back.

Since this has turned into a pissing match instead of a discussion about AK lube, can we get a mod to lock it?

BSW

Trolling and Strawmen

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