AR15.Com Archives
 Daniel Defense V5 - sighting issue
lazychicken  [Member]
1/9/2012 1:13:16 PM
I just bought a DDM4 V5. This is my first AR, and I'll readily admit right upfront that I am in the very early learning stages (total noob) with ARs. What little I know is from lurking this site for awhile and shooting various buddies' ARs.

I have an Aimpoint H1 and Magpul MBUS sights on this rifle. Other than that, it is right out of the box.

I took it out this weekend for the first time and noticed immediately that it appears to be firing quite low and slightly right from both the Aimpoint and the MBUS sights. I put about 100 rounds through it at various distances, and also had a Marine buddy fire it to make sure it wasn't something I was doing wrong, and all shots were consistently extremely low and slightly right.

From as close as 15 yards it was about 6" low, and 1.5" to the right. Obviously the inccuracy was exacerbated as the distance increased.

This morning I used a laser bore sight to analyze it again, and as expected the laser dot was right low and to the right very much in line with what we were noticing at the range. Don't know why I felt the need to prove once again what we'd already observed at the range, but there you go.

So here is my question, and I apologize for it's breadth: What do I do next? It doesn't appear to be a sight issue since both both the Aimpoint and the MBUS sights yield shots at the same place. Both sights are mounted on the same rail, so could the rail be an issue? It appears to be perfectly flush to my untrained eye. I called DD and left a message on their technical support voicemail. That seemed an appropriate place to start. But do you folks have any ideas right off the top of your head about what the problem could be? Naturally I'm hopeful for a "oh yeah, we see this all the time..." kind of answer .

Or if it's something I'm doing wrong, I am very open to hearing that and making a change. But that doesn't seem correct to me in this case. Mostly I just want to learn what troubleshooting steps you guys would take if this were your situation.

Thanks,
Mark
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cvtrpr  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 1:15:38 PM
Adjust the sights to the impact of the bullet? Have you gone through a proper zeroing technique?

OK, here is what I would do....

install your laser boresight, and clamp the gun in a vise. set up a target at exactly 10m from the muzzle, preferably on a wall.

Make a target with a 4mm hollow circle, preferably on graph paper. 4cm above that, make a 4mm black dot. Hang the target so the 4mm hollow circle is covered by the laser boresight dot. Move the dot in your H1 to cover the black dot (while in the vise, do not move the gun, just make the windage and elevation adjustments with a screwdriver). This should get you very close on paper.

Now, move your iron (MBUS) sights so the dot in your H1 is just on the tip of the front sight post. This is called "lolly-popping", make the front sight post the stick, and the red dot the candy.

Now, go to this link, print about five or six of these http://www.weapon-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/M4-25m-Zero.pdf

Paste the target at 25m. Blaze away with five rounds. Make your sight adjustments. Blaze away with five more rounds. When five rounds land inside the 4cm circle, you have a battlesight zero.

When your shots land in the lower half of the circle, you have a useable 25/300m zero.

Your target should look like this:


lazychicken  [Member]
1/10/2012 12:03:11 PM
cvtrpr,

Thank you for your reply and the link to the target. I appreciate it.

However, your reply pointed out that I clearly failed to include an important piece of information in my first post. While at the range I did take appropriate steps to zero the Aimpoint with the rifle secured in a rest. Interestingly, it seemed that no matter how many clicks I counted off on the elevation knob my shots went to the same spot. Because of this, my initial thought was that something seemed to be wrong with the Aimpoint. Turning the elevation knob obviously should affect the point of impact. But when I realized that the iron sights and the Aimpoint were both hitting exactly the same spot –– that just seemed too unlikely. So I decided to stop and seek advice.

So I have several questions:

1. Have you ever seen an Aimpoint optic that wouldn't adjust elevation when the elevation knob was turned?

2. Is it normal/reasonable that a new red dot optic and a new set of iron sights would both be set from the factory to hit exactly the same spot?
2a. If the answer to #1 is "yes", then is it normal that they would both be so far off from where the rifle is placing the shots?

It seems like something is amiss with the Aimpoint. I'm trying to determine if something is possibly amiss with the rifle as well. Obviously I'd love to find out I'm wrong on both counts.

Thanks again for the help. I know these are probably mind-numbingly basic questions I'm asking.
Mark

UPDATE: Just got a call back from Daniel Defense tech support. Now my only remaining question is about the Aimpoint elevation adjustment not working. Calling Aimpoint. Thanks!
cvtrpr  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 9:24:32 PM
Never had that issue with an Aimpoint. What did DD have to say?

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lazychicken  [Member]
1/12/2012 9:21:19 AM
He wasn't at all concerned about the rifle as I described it. He said it was normal and, much like you said, I should just zero the sights and don't let it worry me. He seemed competent and was very friendly and helpful, not dismissive in the least. He was concerned about the Aimpoint issue though. Like you, he said he's got Aimpoints on his personal rifles and hasn't ever had a problem. He agreed that I should call them and see what they can do to help. I believe I am making the sight adjustments correctly based on what I'm reading in the manual, but I'm open to the idea that I'm just doing something wrong. Hopefully that's the case. Once I get some time to breathe this week I'll call them, and I will report back here either way. Again, I hope I'm coming back with egg on my face to tell you that it was operator error. We'll see. Thanks again for your replies.

Mark
WVM4RUBICON  [Team Member]
1/14/2012 11:23:25 PM
The first thing I would do is take the aimpoint off, put it on a bench at 25yds and try zeroing the bu sights first. It is a possibility you are going the wrong direction with the aimpoint and have it fully adjusted in the wrong direction which would explain why you arent seeing a change. Maybe? And if you have a friend who is nice enough to strip his red dot off, throw it on there and see if you still get the same results. Just trying to help but you have great equipment so start with the basics!
BrdChris  [Member]
1/15/2012 11:48:09 AM
Ok let me just throw this out there, how many clicks are you turning it?

For instance, if one click is .5 moa that is .5 inches at 100 yards. It you are at 25 yards that is only .125 inches per click. Maybe you just need to turn the adjustments more.
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