AR15.Com Archives
 which AR10 should I buy ?
nytony  [Member]
8/15/2011 11:58:16 AM
I an going to buy a AR10 either the Armalite 10A4BF 20"bbl and fixed stock or the 10A4CBF 16"bbl with collapsable stock. I am trying to figure out which is more practical to have I will use it for hunting and a defense . what are your inputs?
Mattsandb  [Member]
8/15/2011 12:23:11 PM
It depends bro, you have to weigh in all factors, The 20 inch will give you all the range you need (out past 800 yards) and won't be that much heavier than the 16 inch we're talking about. The 16 with the collapsible stock will be much smaller, especially with the stock folded. My advice would be to hold them both and wield them, personally I would go with a 20 inch since its a 7.62/.308. Why get a 16 when 5.56 variants are available and cheaper. But its your decision, not mine, I almost bought a 16 long time ago, but changed my mind. If its for hunting I saw 20 inch. My two cents
Hokie  [Team Member]
8/15/2011 12:34:09 PM
Given what Armalite advertises for accuracy potential 1-2MOA (correct me if I'm wrong) I figured the ultra precise shooting out to extended ranges out to be left with a dedicated bolt gun or something like the AR10T. I picked up a AR10-A4 carbine (stock) the other week. I love it. I am going to suppress it, but other wise it's good as is with a 1-4X variable on it.

I'll be using mine for deer hunting, but I'd be lying if I didn't get it to supplement my 5.56 AR's. I'll also be buying a 308 bolt gun before 2012. Then my 308 ambitions will be realized. For now anyway!
DavidGCalderone  [Member]
8/15/2011 1:45:54 PM
I have both an AR10A4 and AR10A2, love them both. I do not mind the length or weight. Both are very accurate to any range I might shoot.
DaveS  [Team Member]
8/15/2011 8:49:51 PM
Do you hunt across soybean fields or long strips of power lines?

If the Georgia woods is where you will be carrying it the most
then I'd go with a 16-18" 6.8x43 barrel w/bolt combo from AR15Performance.

If you are anywhere near the Dallas to East Marietta line, then I can let you
finger frak three (3) AR-10s {24" AR-10T, 20" AR-10A4 w/BA, and 20"
AR-10T w/BA} along with a 16" 6.8x43.

I don't have a 16" AR-10 since I have no desire to shoot and cook my game
or BG with same shot. The 16" 6.8x43 or 16" .458 SOCOM covers the
"shorter barrel with umph" requirements.
nytony  [Member]
8/16/2011 6:33:01 AM
I am leaning toward the 20" fixed stock version . I am going to use it to shoot coyotes and i have a lot of .308 ammo so thats why i would get a 308, I thought about the 6.8 a lot though.
Silver78  [Team Member]
8/16/2011 6:57:11 AM
I recognize that there are many many folks who like the 308 with a 16 inch barrel and I usually get a lot of disagreement on this but I am not a big fan of the 308 in 16 inch since the 6.8 came out. If you want something lighter and smaller just go for a 6.8 with a 16 inch barrel. The 308 AR-10 is a bigger heavier platform and in my view they work best with a 20+ inch barrel.

Another thing to consider is that unless you load your own most commercial loads for 308 are optimized for a barrel length longer than 16 inches. On the other hand commercial 6.8 loads are made for the shorter 16-18 barrels.

One more item - the 16 inch 308 is LOUD. You should really shoot on before buying.
DaveS  [Team Member]
8/16/2011 8:08:58 AM
Originally Posted By nytony:
I am leaning toward the 20" fixed stock version . I am going to use it to shoot coyotes and i have a lot of .308 ammo so thats why i would get a 308, I thought about the 6.8 a lot though.


A most excellent choice.
monadh  [Team Member]
8/17/2011 2:32:13 AM
Last week at Camp Perry I bought the last AR-10 10TCBNF with the 16 inch barrel they had. This Army captain had walked in right before me and asked to see it. He looked at it and asked the lady questions about it, and then he decided to look at another rifle on the display. He started to hand the 10TCBNF back to the lady, and I asked if I could look at it. Well, the captain looked at his second choice and obviously decided he did not like it as much as the 10TCBNF. During his decision making process, my kids and I looked at the 10TCBNF, and just as he was about to ask if he could look at it again I told the lady I wanted to buy it. Right now. From the look on the captain's face, I think I now understand the meaning of the word "crestfallen".

I am going to get it out this weekend and go to the range. The 16 inches is not too short. It is a handy carbine, and I believe that match barrel will be able to accurately reach out as far as I want to shoot. If I am not confident of a clean kill, I will pass on the shot.

If you hunt N. Ga, you will have a mix of farmland, woods, and hills. I am from there. With the distances that are possible, the carbine should enable you to handle it easily. If you're from the nasty, swampy, S. Ga area, a carbine will help you whip around quick enough to shoot that gator that is about to take a bite out of your keester.
doublecheez  [Member]
8/22/2011 9:11:20 PM
Back when I was looking into an AR, I wanted one AR wIth maximum versatility and flexibility.

AR10A4C with collapsable stock and back up iron sights. No accessories or blIng for minimum weight.

Sure there are better set ups for long rang, and the AR15 is lighter, and the 6.8 is a very interesting development, but I believe in sticking with main stream military or police standard cartridges due to best prices and availability of surplus ammo.

Even today with SCAR and other options, for my use I don't believe any other option provides more utility than the AR10A4C as far as versatility and bang for the buck. I remain satisfied with my choice.

You should be pleased with your AR10 in what ever configuration you choose.

DC
TaylorWSO  [Life Member]
8/23/2011 4:39:05 AM

Originally Posted By Silver78:


Another thing to consider is that unless you load your own most commercial loads for 308 are optimized for a barrel length longer than 16 inches. On the other hand commercial 6.8 loads are made for the shorter 16-18 barrels.

One more item - the 16 inch 308 is LOUD. You should really shoot on before buying.

That's not really true^^^^^, the only real "optimized" ammo is the Fed M1A ammo for the M1A. Its gas system doesn't like the faster/heavier stuff. And 6.8 was really designed for <16" barrels, although it works great on the 16" guns

Surplus and regular 168 shoot just fine with the AR10 16" guns, hell the 180gr stuff shoot just fine. 155 AMAX is the best HD bullet you can have in a round=perfect with the 16" 308. If your really concerned about the extra (<100fps) loss, get the hornady superperformance, that's "optimized ammo" for the 308 gas guns. Even in a 16" barrel the ballistics (POI vice a 20") don't really differ that much until you get 400+ yards.

The "loud" portion is BS unless you run a break. Don't confuse blast and concussion, with the actual dB's of loudness. Most of the Ar15s with same barrel length are just as loud as the 308. Both require hearing protection break or no break. If you run a break then both are bad.

For the OPs question, both HD and hunting, the 308 becuase it is a better hunting catridge, for just HD I might go with the 6.8 (weight and mag cap), but I sure do like having 155 amax ready to go.



OP I would have to ask myself why not the 16" over the 20." With hornadys new ammo you can have a light 7.62 rifle 16" that will do velocities as fast as the 20" guns.



triode  [Member]
8/23/2011 8:35:34 AM
I was looking at those same two models; I ended up going with the 20" fixed stock. I pick it up Thursday; it was the last one that distributer had in stock and I got a good price compared to what I saw online.
geskorup  [Member]
8/23/2011 10:53:12 PM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Silver78:


Another thing to consider is that unless you load your own most commercial loads for 308 are optimized for a barrel length longer than 16 inches. On the other hand commercial 6.8 loads are made for the shorter 16-18 barrels.

One more item - the 16 inch 308 is LOUD. You should really shoot on before buying.

That's not really true^^^^^, the only real "optimized" ammo is the Fed M1A ammo for the M1A. Its gas system doesn't like the faster/heavier stuff. And 6.8 was really designed for <16" barrels, although it works great on the 16" guns

Surplus and regular 168 shoot just fine with the AR10 16" guns, hell the 180gr stuff shoot just fine. 155 AMAX is the best HD bullet you can have in a round=perfect with the 16" 308. If your really concerned about the extra (<100fps) loss, get the hornady superperformance, that's "optimized ammo" for the 308 gas guns. Even in a 16" barrel the ballistics (POI vice a 20") don't really differ that much until you get 400+ yards.

The "loud" portion is BS unless you run a break. Don't confuse blast and concussion, with the actual dB's of loudness. Most of the Ar15s with same barrel length are just as loud as the 308. Both require hearing protection break or no break. If you run a break then both are bad.

For the OPs question, both HD and hunting, the 308 becuase it is a better hunting catridge, for just HD I might go with the 6.8 (weight and mag cap), but I sure do like having 155 amax ready to go.



OP I would have to ask myself why not the 16" over the 20." With hornadys new ammo you can have a light 7.62 rifle 16" that will do velocities as fast as the 20" guns.





you said BREAK!

crocodile427  [Member]
8/24/2011 9:09:42 AM
My opinion would be go with the 20" and chop it down to 18". You get all the velocity you need, and some extra room to swing around. I have not had my cut yet because I have not found a smith I can trust here in Houston. But a buddy of mine has a Mk12 clone and it feels fantastic. Me personally, the 16" feels funky when on a 308AR, just feels off balanced and awkward. I think it looks kinda goofy too, but thats just my opinion, which is why I choose the longer barrels.

OP, go with the 20". Sure its not as good as a 16" or shorter for clearing rooms, but is still viable as a home defense rifle. And you can reach a little farther when hunting.
nytony  [Member]
9/6/2011 8:04:19 AM
Well I went and bought the 20"model .Looks great and I guess i will have to get a riser block to mount a scope on it though. It has a fairly good trigger and it looks like it might be adjustable a little.There is 3 notches on the trigger where the spring hooks on i guess you can change tension on the spring.
sandblaster  [Team Member]
9/6/2011 9:04:43 AM
20" all the way and never look back, you can always add an M4 stock setup in place of the fixed version and drop over four inches from the total length.
bldsmith  [Member]
9/11/2011 12:41:07 AM
Well I was having the same dilemma. I was looking for a .308 AR and a great 20" AR10 fixed stock cam into the shop for sale. I bought it but then the same guy brought in a 16" AR10 with the collapsible stock but he had used the bcg out of it to build the 20". Interesting but then he is a DR and moves his guns through the safe quickly. Long story short got the 16" for less than 1/2 orig cost and now I have both . Took them to the range yesterday, VERY happy.



The 20" now has a Trijicon 3x9 on it. Very sweet. Plan on using it as a BU hunter and the carbine for, well as they say, whatever I want.
UnTainted  [Member]
9/12/2011 12:45:07 AM
I've killed deer with my 16" ar-10, and they didn't seem to care that it wasn't 20 inches, but this is all inside of 400 yards.

If I want to shoot beyond 400 yards, I'd get my bolt rifle.

If I HAVE to shoot beyond 400 yards, the 16" ar-10 shoots well for me even out to 700 yards (at milk jugs, and hits pretty consistently). In other words, if I have to shoot people at that range, I'd be ok using that gun for that, but I really enjoy using that 16" barrel for hunting in the trees.

It throws up and moves fast. Get the 16", you won't regret it! (I've got a pic of mine in the M15 pics sticky, it was just posted, so go look at it set up for hunting).
nmmi9100  [Team Member]
9/12/2011 12:51:46 AM
Dupe.
nmmi9100  [Team Member]
9/12/2011 12:52:13 AM
20". A 16" 308 is more of a flamethrower than a rifle. A short barrel converts trades velocity for noise and flame.
TaylorWSO  [Life Member]
9/12/2011 6:11:47 AM

Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
20". A 16" 308 is more of a flamethrower than a rifle. A short barrel converts trades velocity for noise and flame.

bullshit

you lose what, 100fps at the most which can make up with the new SP round. Both proven.

Any decent FH will kill the flame, which even that is not that big of a deal.

DB level is slightly elevated but its not like you were shooting that 20" w/o earplugs. If your comparing a 16" with a brake to a 20" w/o, well we know how that works out.

Tell me when an where that 100fps makes a difference besides past 600m or so when the LT transonic accuracy might be slightly degraded? You are marganilizing your argument to "prove" that 100fps means anything.
nmmi9100  [Team Member]
9/12/2011 1:07:02 PM
Taylor, I guess u have drank the carbine koolaid. A 308 isn't a hotrod cartridge. For 300 yards plus, you need all the velocity you can get to beat the wind. 20" is ballistically superior to a 16". 16" is handier and lighter but less effective in the wind at distance.

No free lunch.

-David
nmmi9100  [Team Member]
9/12/2011 1:27:50 PM
Originally Posted By nytony:
Well I went and bought the 20"model .Looks great and I guess i will have to get a riser block to mount a scope on it though. It has a fairly good trigger and it looks like it might be adjustable a little.There is 3 notches on the trigger where the spring hooks on i guess you can change tension on the spring.


Good choice!
TaylorWSO  [Life Member]
9/12/2011 1:40:52 PM

Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
Taylor, I guess u have drank the carbine koolaid. A 308 isn't a hotrod cartridge. For 300 yards plus, you need all the velocity you can get to beat the wind. 20" is ballistically superior to a 16". 16" is handier and lighter but less effective in the wind at distance.

No free lunch.

-David
I didn't say there was, but that little bit of velocity at 600m doesn't make that much difference, about 4% in drift. Most people can't even shoot to that degree of precision. And if that is the goal at extended ranges, then 20" is not really enough.

BUT that wasnt the OPs question was it??


Originally Posted By nytony:
I will use it for hunting and a defense
So unless the OP is a super sniper taking head shots at 700m, the 16" fufills his role better, even shooting coyotes.

Guess what if he gets the SP ammo, he can shoot just as fast as the 20

If he said he would be taking 800m shots, then I would agree with what you said, but he didn't.

He got the 20" which is just fine, but people will argue 100fps all day long to prove the 20" is "better" when there only is a small statistical improvement.






nmmi9100  [Team Member]
9/12/2011 2:58:37 PM
Taylor:

If the OP ever hunts out here, 400 to 600 yard shots on antelope are common.

And I defend my home with an LRB M14SA. Full length barrel.

Go out and shoot long range in the wind at matches. You'll find out what 100-150 fps will do.

The OP made a good choice.

-David
Nichonator  [Team Member]
9/12/2011 8:19:51 PM
Very happy with my AR 10 A4 Carbine. Accrate and reliable. My 4th Armalite. Shots touching are mine from about 80-90 yards and the other 2 are from my buddy who had never shot this gun before. flyer on top is from a standing head shot unrested he attempted from about 100 yards. He is talking about trading his M1-A in already.

hotbiggun42  [Team Member]
9/16/2011 6:44:04 PM
16" carbine for me. If i have to shoot over 400yds I will just pack up my rifle and run the other way i guess.
apochromat  [Member]
9/17/2011 12:04:27 PM
I have a 16" carbine with a brake. It is soon about to go to Armalite for brake removal. It is an excellent shooter.

The 20" Noveskes and Armalite barrels all seem to be heavy (.875" dia under gas block). I saw a "midweight" stainless barrel here in the Exchange, but it sold before I could get it. Is anyone making a midweight 20" match grade barrel?
nmmi9100  [Team Member]
9/19/2011 3:26:31 AM
Nick:

Now get to an Appleseed in your area and learn to HIT with that rifle, without the aid of a bench, bipod, or sandbag. Rifleman style!

http://www.appleseedinfo.org

There's one near you.

-David
Edgewood, NM
army_eod  [Team Member]
9/24/2011 5:28:01 PM
seahorse  [Team Member]
9/24/2011 10:41:11 PM
Originally Posted By apochromat:
I have a 16" carbine with a brake. It is soon about to go to Armalite for brake removal. It is an excellent shooter.

The 20" Noveskes and Armalite barrels all seem to be heavy (.875" dia under gas block). I saw a "midweight" stainless barrel here in the Exchange, but it sold before I could get it. Is anyone making a midweight 20" match grade barrel?


The SASS barrel has the .875" diameter under the gas block and it looks mid-weight to me.



I used one in a build and it doesn't seem real heavy.