AR15.Com Archives
 22-250 upper
liten_u_up  [Member]
9/26/2008 7:25:38 AM
anyone have one? who could build a me good one? any issues or probs? or is it a bad idea
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Heman71  [Member]
9/26/2008 12:14:08 PM
22-250 will work, you'llneed to go custom. George Smith at EGW builds nice rifles he works with Fred Szablewski of Sabreco who also builds rifles. An option you could do that is a better caliber is the 6mm-250. Your going to get better barrel life and your down range performance will be a lot better. Cartridge is fairly popular as a XTC match round. It will get you to 1K also if you desire.
Essayons  [Team Member]
9/26/2008 12:27:15 PM
For what purpose? Varmint? Target?

If target, check out www.davidtubb.com/6mmxc.html
Heman71  [Member]
9/26/2008 1:57:21 PM
Also I'll add in talking with Scott Medesha (another good AR-10 smith) he has done 22-250 AI uppers as well. As the other poster mentioned the 6XC is an option. David Tubbs has made this cartridge very famous. Another option is the 6X that came before the 6XC.

But as far as your original quesiton the only problem you would have with a .22-250 upper is going to be barrel life as your dumping a lot of powder down a small tube. Also if you're wanting to shoot the small bullets real fast you're going to want a slower twist barrel. For the heavier .22cal bullets you'll need a faster twist (guessing 1:8 to 1:7 as that is what you need in a service rifle for the 80's or a 1:6.5 for the 90's), and that might over spin the little bullets and cause them to blow up.
On the positive side it would be a kick butt varmint rifle, especially if you're pdog hunting in a town that hasn't been shot at.

IMHO if you're wanting to stay small I'd look at the 6mm cartridge options as you'll get better downrange performance and longer barrel life than you would with the 22-250 platform.
Halfcocked  [Team Member]
9/26/2008 4:00:22 PM

Originally Posted By Heman71:
Also I'll add in talking with Scott Medesha (another good AR-10 smith) he has done 22-250 AI uppers as well. As the other poster mentioned the 6XC is an option. David Tubbs has made this cartridge very famous. Another option is the 6X that came before the 6XC.

But as far as your original quesiton the only problem you would have with a .22-250 upper is going to be barrel life as your dumping a lot of powder down a small tube. Also if you're wanting to shoot the small bullets real fast you're going to want a slower twist barrel. For the heavier .22cal bullets you'll need a faster twist (guessing 1:8 to 1:7 as that is what you need in a service rifle for the 80's or a 1:6.5 for the 90's), and that might over spin the little bullets and cause them to blow up.
On the positive side it would be a kick butt varmint rifle, especially if you're pdog hunting in a town that hasn't been shot at.

IMHO if you're wanting to stay small I'd look at the 6mm cartridge options as you'll get better downrange performance and longer barrel life than you would with the 22-250 platform.


The AR10 is not permitted in Service Rifle competition. Section III, 4-13.
Heman71  [Member]
9/26/2008 5:44:29 PM
Sir I know the AR-10 is not permitted in service rifle I was referencing the AR-15 and the barrel twists that are used for service rifles in NRA competition for the AR-15.
Halfcocked  [Team Member]
9/26/2008 5:52:07 PM
I see.

Heman71  [Member]
9/26/2008 6:05:29 PM
I will make myself more clear next time I guess.
liten_u_up  [Member]
9/26/2008 11:03:56 PM
it will be a coyote gun but will end up killing more twurtles out of my pond. i kinda need it to be a caliber that isnt a custom load or ill have to load myself.
Heman71  [Member]
9/26/2008 11:43:10 PM
Well if you're going for factory ammo you could always go .223, 60gr Black Hills V-max works on coyotes.

I don't know of anybody that does a factor .22-250 you'll have to have a smith make it for you. I know Medesha charges around 1100 for an upper and I think Fred is around 1200.

Your choices are really going to be .243, .260, or .308 if you want pure factory. You'll probably find more ammo for varmint use with the .243. Barrel lifes are going to be around 1500, 3500, and 6000+ respectively.

StoneTower  [Member]
9/27/2008 1:13:20 AM
ArmaLite made a limited run of AR-10 22-250 uppers several years ago. I have one but have yet to fire it. In talking to ArmaLite, they have feeding problems if you load more than about 7 rounds in the magazine because of the case taper. They were built in a 24" T upper profile with a chrome molly barrel. The one I have looks new. I am not selling at this time. I knew about the feeding problem prior to buying it but if you shoot a 22-250 too fast you will have no barrel life. If you did not mind reloading, a 22-243 (243 necked down to .224) would be the perfect fit for the AR10. The .243 is based on the .308 so there are not feeding issues in an AR-10 and it can be loaded down to 22-250 levels or you can crank it up to the max and replace barrels often. You might also want to consider a .243 upper which is more common and there are very light bullets for it too. If you have an AR-15 platform, you might look at a 6.5 Grendel as you can buy loaded ammo and it is an awesome cartridge.

Good Luck

David
Heman71  [Member]
9/27/2008 11:01:15 AM
If you go .22-243 please let all of us know what brand of barrel you are shooting so we can by stock in the company. Dave were you refering to the .22-243 Middlestead as it can chuck a 30gr Berger HP MEF at 5,278fps.

To be honest to do what you want to do with an AR-10 you're going to have to reload. I still think the 6mm-250 or 6XC would probably be a good route, with the 6mm-250 probably being the easiest as you can take regular 22-250 brass and neck it up to 6mm and then you have a whole host of 6mm Varmint or LR High BC bullets you can shoot. H4350 powder I believe works the best in this cartridge.

If you are going to go factory I'd go 260 Rem as you'll get the best of barrel life and ballistics of the .308 case family, and will have better barrel life than the 6mm's, and there is a wide variety of bullets to choose from. If you go this route I can help you with loads as this is my main cartidge I shoot matchs with.

However the cheapest will be the .308, and it shoots well also. Although your shooting bigger peice of lead down the tube, but I don't mind the recoil when I'm shooting mine in Palma.
liten_u_up  [Member]
9/28/2008 2:02:45 AM
ok. thanks for the input, but now im lost about which way to go. i was wanting a factory load that would sling 55grs up close to 4k fps. but might just stick with my 308 upper and shoot hornady 110grs TAP rounds.

i would reload but im a quadrapelic and cant use my hands. i dont know anyone that reloads anything other than pistol rounds. so..
StoneTower  [Member]
9/28/2008 4:06:23 AM

Originally Posted By Heman71:
If you go .22-243 please let all of us know what brand of barrel you are shooting so we can by stock in the company. Dave were you refering to the .22-243 Middlestead as it can chuck a 30gr Berger HP MEF at 5,278fps.


Yes that is the one. Just because the cartridge is able to shoot a bullet at 5000+ does not mean that you have to shoot thme that fast. You could load it down to 223 levels if you wanted. I was looking for a way to make it feed better not to go faster than a 22-250.

In playing with 22-250 rounds in an AR-10 mag, I would not build one from scratch. I would not build any caliber that is based on a 22-250 case (250-3000 parent case). It was never designd to be used in a autoloader or a box magaizine. A reamer for the Middlestead costs about $60.00 so and GOOD gunsmith with AR-15 AR-10 experience could manage a Middlestead.

I would look for something based on a .308 case as that is what a M-14 magazine (that is what the AR-10 mag is based on) was ment to feed.

If the OP is unable to reload, I would get a .243 upper as that one is easy to get ammo for and it will feed properly.
Hatrick  [Team Member]
9/28/2008 8:45:35 AM
I would look for something based on a .308 case as that is what a M-14 magazine (that is what the AR-10 mag is based on) was ment to feed.

If the OP is unable to reload, I would get a .243 upper as that one is easy to get ammo for and it will feed properly.


I agree with that. I have an AR-10 T chambered in 243 Win that is a sweet shooting rifle with a 1:10 twist, perfect for varmint. I am shooting a 70 gr blitz king at 3,500 fps. with excellent accuracy, and good function. I can also shoot a 100 gr. pro hunter at 2,800 fps for larger animals, but I use the 308 upper to make bigger holes.
Heman71  [Member]
9/28/2008 12:02:04 PM
As far as the original question yeah just stick with teh 110gr TAP rounds, you'll be just as good. However if you want somthing different then go with a .243 upper as StoneTower has mentioned.

As far as not doing an autoloader based off a 250-3000 case you are correct the gunsmith needs to do some extra work. Fred Szablewski of Sabreco make a lot of 6mm-250 uppers for XTC shooting and if you couldn't get them to feed reliably people wouldn't shoot it as a jam in rapids really hurts the score.

StoneTower  [Member]
9/29/2008 2:14:02 AM

Originally Posted By Heman71:
As far as the original question yeah just stick with teh 110gr TAP rounds, you'll be just as good. However if you want somthing different then go with a .243 upper as StoneTower has mentioned.

As far as not doing an autoloader based off a 250-3000 case you are correct the gunsmith needs to do some extra work. Fred Szablewski of Sabreco make a lot of 6mm-250 uppers for XTC shooting and if you couldn't get them to feed reliably people wouldn't shoot it as a jam in rapids really hurts the score.



How many rounds do they shoot at one time in that kind of competition? The issue was not the upper but the magazine and the case taper. After about 7 rounds, they start to nosedive and will not feed reliably. With 7 or less you can rock until you are empty. The main point is that the 250-3000 was not meant for an autoloader and you can’t expect to load 25 in a magazine and have it feed reliably.

David
Heman71  [Member]
9/29/2008 9:49:18 PM
Well in rapids for 200 and 300 you load either 5 and 5 or 2 and 8 (need to do a reload during a 10 round string). Most match rifle shooters do 5 and 5, but I'm sure some shoot 2 and 8. I'm guessing that is why they can get it to work because the most we put in a mag for XTC is 8.
FALFire  [Member]
9/30/2008 10:57:06 PM
Your other option is to step down to the AR15 size and do a 243WSSM. There is factory ammo available in 55gr and 95gr stuff. Lots of them out there and they work perfectly.
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