AR15.Com Archives
 Pros and Cons of Vertical Grips.
XM17SBullpup  [Member]
10/4/2004 6:47:57 PM
Well I've been using M-16s and AR-15s since 1977. Always with the supplied forearms depending on the model. Now I'm thinking of a vertical grip for my Bushy. I like the look of the Tango Down or KAC grips. Aside from the storage of a bolt or batteries, what are the pros and cons of a vertical grip. I know the TD will give a spot for my tape switch. What has been your experience with the grips pro and con? Thanks for any imput.
twl  [Member]
10/4/2004 6:52:45 PM
Pros:
Great for keeping the muzzle under control in full-auto.
Also good for keeping the heat off the hand.

Cons:
Adds a small amount of extra weight.
plaskon  [Member]
10/4/2004 10:42:43 PM
Pros: looks good. functional like twl mentioned.

Cons: if you traveled back in time and told your kid self that one day you'd spend over $45 on a semi-adjustable peg. . .
RABIDFOX50  [Member]
10/5/2004 1:10:55 AM
Good one!
RED68C  [Member]
10/6/2004 1:12:24 AM
Pros:
works great when the rifle gets hot.
Great for CQB
Great for reflex firing

Cons:
Pain in the A$$ in the prone
one more thing to get caught on your equipment
makes your supporting hand more tired over long Carry's
Pain in the A$$ in the prone

RED
DevL  [Member]
10/6/2004 12:51:18 PM
How is it a pain in the ass in the prone? The mag sticks down further than the foregrip and you use the mag as a monopod. The foregrip is never an issue.
WaWaTuSi  [Team Member]
10/6/2004 12:53:14 PM

Originally Posted By DevL:
How is it a pain in the ass in the prone? The mag sticks down further than the foregrip and you use the mag as a monopod. The foregrip is never an issue.





Elbow hand position on a VFG feels odd and unnatural while prone..
BookHound  [Team Member]
10/6/2004 1:05:09 PM
I actually like the vertical grip in the prone position. I guess my mileage varies.

For my first vertical grip I didn't want to spend a lot of money (heck, I wasn't sure I really would like it). So, I got a Swiss Vertical Grip from Advanced Armament and was happy with it. Then Grant from G&R Tactical FORCED me to look hard at the Tango Down grips. I'm sure glad for his advice. The TD grip is more expensive, but it is MUCH more solid on the rail. It's built like a tank. Plus, it has the storage compartment, which I use for spare batteries. The really IS a difference between the more expensive grips and the cheaper ones.

I still like and use my AAC grip. But I it doesn't see hard use at the range. The rifle that gets used in classes is the same one that goes out in the woods with me. It is the one wearing the TD grip.

Using the vertical grip is less fatiguing for me when aiming the rifle for long periods. It helps me to better control recoil simply because it is more comfortable than holding the handguards.

RED68C  [Member]
10/6/2004 8:43:34 PM

How is it a pain in the ass in the prone?



When you I.M.T I have had the Knight's Arms VFG brake.

When using Cover and/or concealment, "a down tree / low wall" The VFG does not let you get low enough. This has happened to me more than once!


The mag sticks down further than the foregrip and you use the mag as a monopod


If you use the MAG as a mono pod, you run in to ALOT of feeding issues, you can rock the mag backward's, forward's or jam in strait up. All of these are not good for feeding the ammunition.

On my M-4 at work I take it off METT-TC dependent. On my CAR-15 at home I have one all the time, because all I use it for is reflex firing.

hope this clears up my ideas some RED
Lumpy196  [Team Member]
10/6/2004 8:56:30 PM
Muzzle control in rapid fire.
Cooler (temperature) than hanguards or reciever after a heavy volume of fire.
Most railed forearms end up heavier from lights and sometimes IR lasers - the grip gives you a place to hold and places your arm and wrist in the ideal position to support the weight from them.


Ive never had a problem with them in prone. The magazine is longer than the VFG so I dont see how it can keep me from getting lower enough, and I dont hug cover close enough for it to be a problem.
XM17SBullpup  [Member]
10/6/2004 9:35:34 PM
Thanks for all the imput. I'm gonna hold off for now and keep the stock handguards and light mount the way they are for now. Thanks again. They were all informative posts.
markm  [Team Member]
10/6/2004 9:43:17 PM

Originally Posted By plaskon:
Pros: looks good.



Fashion over function ALWAYS!

I can't get used to the VFGs. Every time I shoot somebody's carbean with one, I feel like there's something in the way of my natural support hand position.

Plus when I do grab onto the thing, I feel like there's an uneven push pull thing going on thats going to slide the toe of the stock out of the "pocket" of my shoulder.
RED68C  [Member]
10/6/2004 9:53:04 PM
Lumpy196,

I should of presented my second post better. What I meant was 'if possible" using Cover and/or concealment as a suport wile firing. Sorry for the understanding on my post. RED
Lumpy196  [Team Member]
10/6/2004 9:56:49 PM
Thats cool.

Im from the school of thought that I dont crowd cover.

The other thing is my VFG is mounted toward the rear of the handguard. Its still possible to run the forearm right up to the VFG and make full use of the cover.

It would still be possible with the grip mounted forward, but probably not as stable.

Skunkeye  [Member]
10/6/2004 10:29:48 PM
Snagtastic gimmick. When I see Cooley or Taran Butler winning matches with one, I may reconsider. But, then again, I think a lot of these picatinny hanguards are snagtastic gimmicks too.
Lumpy196  [Team Member]
10/6/2004 10:32:58 PM

Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
Snagtastic gimmick. When I see Cooley or Taran Butler winning matches with one, I may reconsider. But, then again, I think a lot of these picatinny hanguards are snagtastic gimmicks too.



Thank you for the illuminating comments.
KurtVF  [Member]
10/12/2004 10:31:17 PM
The original Thompson SMG had one and the military had them remove it about 80 years ago. Now everybody wants one. What's old is new again!!!!
gaijin  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 3:08:32 AM


If you need a VFG, just grab the front of the mag well.

Built-in VFG that you don't have to pay for - and don't have to remove when one would get in the way.

What a beautiful concept.
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 3:11:58 AM

Originally Posted By gaijin:

If you need a VFG, just grab the front of the mag well.

Built-in VFG that you don't have to pay for - and don't have to remove when one would get in the way.

What a beautiful concept.



Doesn't work for me.
gaijin  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 3:26:08 AM

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By gaijin:

If you need a VFG, just grab the front of the mag well.

Built-in VFG that you don't have to pay for - and don't have to remove when one would get in the way.

What a beautiful concept.



Doesn't work for me.



Why not?
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 3:32:47 AM
Too short. Bends my elbow at the wrong angle and I cant sustain it. Funny, considering I have my KAC grip as close the receiver as it will fit on a DD rail. That and it tends to get hot.
Yojimbo  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 8:30:26 AM

Originally Posted By gaijin:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By gaijin:

If you need a VFG, just grab the front of the mag well.

Built-in VFG that you don't have to pay for - and don't have to remove when one would get in the way.

What a beautiful concept.



Doesn't work for me.



Why not?



Also, if you do a lot of rapid fire NSR drills it gets damn hot in that area in front of the magwell and around the barrel nut.
curt  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 9:42:01 AM

Originally Posted By RED68C:

How is it a pain in the ass in the prone?



When using Cover and/or concealment, "a down tree / low wall" The VFG does not let you get low enough. This has happened to me more than once!

If you use the MAG as a mono pod, you run in to ALOT of feeding issues, you can rock the mag backward's, forward's or jam in strait up. All of these are not good for feeding the ammunition.


hope this clears up my ideas some RED



Don't see how getting low with a VFG is any more of a problem than it is with a 30 round mag but if it is you just roll that puppy 90 deg and you get get your rifle lower than your head.

IMO if your mag starts giving you trouble with the small amount of wiggle available in a good lower, then you have a new range target. There's plenty of $11 NIW GI mags availble now so if you're having trouble with your mags maybe it's time to replace.

metroplex  [Member]
10/13/2004 1:59:44 PM
With a bipod, I grab the front of the magwell (20rd mag loaded) for support. It feels SO comfortable and SO right in this position. My elbows are on the floor/ground but I could fall asleep in this position - it just feels right.
Lumpy196  [Team Member]
10/13/2004 2:13:44 PM

Originally Posted By metroplex:
With a bipod, I grab the front of the magwell (20rd mag loaded) for support. It feels SO comfortable and SO right in this position. My elbows are on the floor/ground but I could fall asleep in this position - it just feels right.




Thats cool.


VFG guns arent generally used with "bi-pod type-guns."
Harv24  [Member]
10/13/2004 11:54:18 PM

If you use the MAG as a mono pod, you run in to ALOT of feeding issues, you can rock the mag backward's, forward's or jam in strait up. All of these are not good for feeding the ammunition.







Thats just wrong to perpetuate that myth that touching the mag will induce all kinds of malfuctions. if your having a malfuction, its because the mag is bad and nothing else.
ThePrisoner72  [Member]
10/16/2004 10:11:00 AM
I'm off to the range to try out my new VFG. Hopefully I'll like it!
Nate1  [Member]
10/16/2004 11:21:55 AM

Originally Posted By Harv24:

If you use the MAG as a mono pod, you run in to ALOT of feeding issues, you can rock the mag backward's, forward's or jam in strait up. All of these are not good for feeding the ammunition.







Thats just wrong to perpetuate that myth that touching the mag will induce all kinds of malfuctions. if your having a malfuction, its because the mag is bad and nothing else.



I've been to a simulator with movie screens and air driven weapons (can't remember what the damn thing was called), but the M16's were set up so that if you rested the mag on the floor it would cause problems intentionally so that soldiers wouldn't do it...
Lumpy196  [Team Member]
10/16/2004 4:29:47 PM

Originally Posted By Nate1:
I've been to a simulator with movie screens and air driven weapons (can't remember what the damn thing was called), but the M16's were set up so that if you rested the mag on the floor it would cause problems intentionally so that soldiers wouldn't do it...



Well thats pretty dumb considering it DOESNT HAPPEN in real life...
curt  [Team Member]
10/16/2004 5:04:09 PM

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Nate1:
I've been to a simulator with movie screens and air driven weapons (can't remember what the damn thing was called), but the M16's were set up so that if you rested the mag on the floor it would cause problems intentionally so that soldiers wouldn't do it...



Well thats pretty dumb considering it DOESNT HAPPEN in real life...



who cares what happens in real life?..this is the internet!
Yojimbo  [Team Member]
10/17/2004 8:28:46 AM

Originally Posted By curt:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Nate1:
I've been to a simulator with movie screens and air driven weapons (can't remember what the damn thing was called), but the M16's were set up so that if you rested the mag on the floor it would cause problems intentionally so that soldiers wouldn't do it...



Well thats pretty dumb considering it DOESNT HAPPEN in real life...



who cares what happens in real life?..this is the internet!



Harv24  [Member]
10/17/2004 5:28:43 PM
Originally posted by Nate1:


I've been to a simulator with movie screens and air driven weapons (can't remember what the damn thing was called), but the M16's were set up so that if you rested the mag on the floor it would cause problems intentionally so that soldiers wouldn't do it...



It's called FATS and its used by thhe Military as well as LE. and I've never seen or heard of anything goofier. If you ran thru this simulator and it was ran by some E-5 or E-6 SME please keep in mind that wearing stripe's on your collar makes you no more of an expert on a Weapon then living next to the Airport makes you a Pilot!!! I have heard some pretty stupid shit spoken By Senior NCO's that would shock the shit out of ya.