AR15.Com Archives
 Razor HD Gen II 1-6x24 or SWFA SS HD 1-6x24 ??
57Strat  [Team Member]
4/9/2013 11:13:29 AM
I'm looking for a 1-6x for an AR15 carbine that has a daylight capable red dot in 1X. The Razor HD Gen II 1-6x24 and SWFA SS HD 1-6x24 seem appealing from what I've read (links below). The SWFA is first focal plane and the Vortex is second focal plane. Which one of these scopes should I get, or are there other scopes in this category I should look at?

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/razor-hd-gen-2-1-6x24-riflescope-with-jm-1-reticle
Paid Advertisement
--
Chrome308  [Member]
4/9/2013 4:58:03 PM
Depends on what you want to do with it? Neither has a 'red dot' in the traditional holographic sense.

Im not sure that FFP is a neccessary requirement on a low power variable. The SWFA reticle is great ay 1x and 6x, but gets noisy between 2.5-5x as that ring grows (the downside to FFP)

FWIW, Neither of those will be truely daylight bright in direct sunlight, but the SWFA reticle is probably the better of the two at 1x and although the battery life is short, it appears bright in anything other than direct sunlight. Both should work well with the illumination turned off.

IIRC the vortex weighs (a little) more and costs (a lot) more. Conversely the SWFA 1-6 is still not really in stock, although I think theyve now about completed the group buy orders (I got mine and I ordered the last couple of days of the special) there may still be a few outstanding from one-off preorders from the last year.
VortexSam  [Industry Partner]
4/9/2013 6:44:00 PM

Originally Posted By Chrome308:
Depends on what you want to do with it? Neither has a 'red dot' in the traditional holographic sense.

Im not sure that FFP is a neccessary requirement on a low power variable. The SWFA reticle is great ay 1x and 6x, but gets noisy between 2.5-5x as that ring grows (the downside to FFP)

FWIW, Neither of those will be truely daylight bright in direct sunlight, but the SWFA reticle is probably the better of the two at 1x and although the battery life is short, it appears bright in anything other than direct sunlight. Both should work well with the illumination turned off.

IIRC the vortex weighs (a little) more and costs (a lot) more. Conversely the SWFA 1-6 is still not really in stock, although I think theyve now about completed the group buy orders (I got mine and I ordered the last couple of days of the special) there may still be a few outstanding from one-off preorders from the last year.

I just thought I'd point out that the Razor 1-6x24 is absolutely daylight bright in direct sunlight. This one is a different animal than our 1-4x24 Razor, which had a different illumination system and wasn't nearly as bright.

Feel free to call us if you have any questions 1-800-426-0048.
FALARAK  [Team Member]
4/9/2013 7:36:07 PM
I'd have to consider this in the running as well:

http://bushnell.com/tactical/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/smrs-1-6-5x-24mm-illuminated-btr-1-sfp
Hydra-shokz  [Team Member]
4/10/2013 10:14:08 AM
I'd go with the Vortex. My only complaint is the stupid "shadow black" color they use. If anybody is listening??? The Razor's would be more better in normal black. If I want some funky color I will paint it. YMMV.
VortexSam  [Industry Partner]
4/10/2013 11:05:32 AM

Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
I'd go with the Vortex. My only complaint is the stupid "shadow black" color they use. If anybody is listening??? The Razor's would be more better in normal black. If I want some funky color I will paint it. YMMV.

Definitely listening! Thanks for the feedback.
Jwil  [Member]
4/10/2013 3:18:55 PM
Originally Posted By VortexSam:

Originally Posted By Chrome308:
Depends on what you want to do with it? Neither has a 'red dot' in the traditional holographic sense.

Im not sure that FFP is a neccessary requirement on a low power variable. The SWFA reticle is great ay 1x and 6x, but gets noisy between 2.5-5x as that ring grows (the downside to FFP)

FWIW, Neither of those will be truely daylight bright in direct sunlight, but the SWFA reticle is probably the better of the two at 1x and although the battery life is short, it appears bright in anything other than direct sunlight. Both should work well with the illumination turned off.

IIRC the vortex weighs (a little) more and costs (a lot) more. Conversely the SWFA 1-6 is still not really in stock, although I think theyve now about completed the group buy orders (I got mine and I ordered the last couple of days of the special) there may still be a few outstanding from one-off preorders from the last year.

I just thought I'd point out that the Razor 1-6x24 is absolutely daylight bright in direct sunlight. This one is a different animal than our 1-4x24 Razor, which had a different illumination system and wasn't nearly as bright.

Feel free to call us if you have any questions 1-800-426-0048.


My vote is for the Vortex. I got mine about a month and a half ago and love it! Im actually contemplating selling my nightforce 2.5-10 and my eotech to pick up 2 more Razor HD's 1-6, I love it that much.
I agree that the FFP is not neccessary in a 1-6.
I want to confirm also, that the vortex is 100% daylight bright in direct sunlight. I live in AZ and the sun is pretty bright here! Used it im my 3-gun match 3 weeks ago, and I couldnt be happier with it.
I think my number 1 favorite feature is the daylight bright illum. Also love the capped turrets, the locking illum and the shutoff in-between each setting, the reticle (works for what i do) and the 200 yrd zero setup.
Also, I think Vortex has one of the, if not the best warranty out there that I have heard of (IMO). They also have fantastic Customer service/support. Ive had a few questions and Jim Jordan (on the Vortex forum here) has been fantastic in answering them and a ridiculous fast rate. I havent dealt with Sam, but I am sure he is great as well. I wanted to buy/support from a company that I knew would be there and make it right if I had any issues.
I dont know what you (OP) plan to use the scope for, but I dont think you will be sad at all once you get the vortex!

FWIW I like the color also

Filthy-9er  [Team Member]
4/10/2013 10:26:45 PM
Originally Posted By VortexSam:

Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
I'd go with the Vortex. My only complaint is the stupid "shadow black" color they use. If anybody is listening??? The Razor's would be more better in normal black. If I want some funky color I will paint it. YMMV.

Definitely listening! Thanks for the feedback.


I'd go with the vortex. It is built like a tank and is a glass piece of glass. The reticle is plenty bright. My buddy has one on his LWRC. But.......I must agree on the color. It doesnt match any furniture (yes, Im a diva about matching!) Release it in black, and I'm all over it. The color is great looking, but its difficult to match as a complete rifle. Keep up the good work, Vortex!
Hydra-shokz  [Team Member]
4/11/2013 9:28:06 AM
While were at it, Vortex could lose the fiber optic thingies on the PST series and design a better zero stop. Just sayin'.
squirrelslayer1  [Team Member]
4/11/2013 10:07:04 AM
I'd go with the Vortex. Can't beat them when it comes to Customer Service.

When you do decide to buy, buy from OpticsPlant. Dvor.com, a division of OpticsPlanet, is having a very good sale through them right now and you can save a pretty good amount. Sign up with them, and under the live chat, ask if you can get a deal on a Razor HD (be sure to enter the product code when you do). I was able to get about $75 off the Optics Planet price on a Viper PST 1-4

Dvor.com

Using the above link will also get me credit at Dvor.com, if it is against site policy, I will be happy to take it down.
AlamoShooter  [Member]
4/11/2013 10:30:39 AM
I use a 3/4 ton truck for work , I don't care what color it is. The Vortex Razor 1-6 is a fast scope at anything a 3 gun match can throw at it. I am 56 years old and have "played" shooting games for 23 years. the Razor gave me back 15years on my eyes and helps keeps my scores on the first page with they younger skilled shooters.

A good friend that deployed to Af-Stain, = his Razor is holding up great at a FFB. When He gets home this summer we will get a honest review from Americas Best.

I am on the Vortex shooting team , but I was sold on Vortex before being invited to the team. I will drive over 10,000 miles and spend over 35 nights away from home to make shooting events this year. I do that on my $$

Any one of theae points sells the 1-6 to other shooters trying out my scope, is the Forgiving eye relife - the Locking On or Off of the center Red dot. And Warranty
Jamie
Unicron  [Member]
4/11/2013 1:56:03 PM
Hello; i just pulled the trigger on the vortex 1-6. should be getting it in a couple days. will be sure to compare it to a TR24 (triangle)...which i love.
My purpose: range plinking & occational 3 gun matches up to 500Y

went through some research before deciding...here is what i was looking for:
- reticle had to be daylight visible. confirmed (as reported)
- reticle can't be too small @ 1X. I hear that the dot is about 3MOA at 1X; which is perfect. this is actually an advantage of second focal plane. At 6X the dot is 0.5 MOA.
- forgiving eye box and eye relief. confirmed (as reported)
- bullet drop compensation & windage hash marks. unfortunately there isn't any indicators for compensating for wind. I do not have much experience with wind compenstation...but i am guessing you can use the end of the thick hoizontal reticle post to the center of the reticle (15 MOA) to help estimate just how much to shoot into the wind. for a 500 yard target require 8MOA of windage...I would put the target about where the "1" is where it says "1.7".

Jwil  [Member]
4/11/2013 2:21:17 PM
Originally Posted By AlamoShooter:
I use a 3/4 ton truck for work , I don't care what color it is. The Vortex Razor 1-6 is a fast scope at anything a 3 gun match can throw at it. I am 56 years old and have "played" shooting games for 23 years. the Razor gave me back 15years on my eyes and helps keeps my scores on the first page with they younger skilled shooters.

A good friend that deployed to Af-Stain, = his Razor is holding up great at a FFB. When He gets home this summer we will get a honest review from Americas Best.

I am on the Vortex shooting team , but I was sold on Vortex before being invited to the team. I will drive over 10,000 miles and spend over 35 nights away from home to make shooting events this year. I do that on my $$

Any one of theae points sells the 1-6 to other shooters trying out my scope, is the Forgiving eye relife - the Locking On or Off of the center Red dot. And Warranty
Jamie


If you want to see some great pics of the glass, find the post Jamie did, IIRC it was in this section. I will try to find it alter and link it. He mighta posted similar or the same photos on another site also. Not sure if I am aloud to reference the other site or not....
His pics are what initially got me looking into this scope and helped me to pull the trigger on buying this optic (along with the other things I mentioned in my post above). I couldnt get my hands on the scope to check it out, and normally I would never buy a scope without getting to touch it, so I just want to thank Jamie for taking the time to post all those photos. I really appreciate it!
DonofKalifornia  [Team Member]
4/12/2013 2:46:50 AM
I just got a Vortex 1-6, I've tried different scopes over 1-4 power, most were useless over 3x due to very poor eye relief. I tried a friend's Vortex at a match, picking up some one else's gun and having a perfect sight picture sold me. At 6x there was no fighting the fish eye effect that most other 1-6 scopes create.

I also like the simple reticale, on a 50-200 yard zero the dot is small but very bright, I just turn my dot on at '7' and can easily find it even on a bright day. For 99% of shooting especially in 3 gun that is all I want illuminated, not the entire reticale. I find most reticales as being way too busy to try to shoot with any sort of speed.

Before I bought the Vortex, I looked at alot and bought a few different scopes. The Vortex is as close to my idea of perfect ads I can find. As a note the only scope in this range I did not look through personally was the Leupold Multi-gun because I could not find one some had to look through.
DonofKalifornia  [Team Member]
4/12/2013 2:47:33 AM
double tap
Unicron  [Member]
4/12/2013 11:09:43 AM
I am hoping my vortex 1-6 gets delivered today.

by the way, what kind of color is that? I am afraid of what it will look like in person..heh.
is it at least close to flat dark earth?
Filthy-9er  [Team Member]
4/12/2013 1:55:35 PM
Originally Posted By Unicron:
I am hoping my vortex 1-6 gets delivered today.

by the way, what kind of color is that? I am afraid of what it will look like in person..heh.
is it at least close to flat dark earth?


Nothing like FDE. Its more like a midnight bronze. Between grey and brown. It looks sweet, but hard to match with anything else
JesseCJC  [Member]
4/12/2013 3:48:50 PM
Originally Posted By VortexSam:

Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
I'd go with the Vortex. My only complaint is the stupid "shadow black" color they use. If anybody is listening??? The Razor's would be more better in normal black. If I want some funky color I will paint it. YMMV.

Definitely listening! Thanks for the feedback.


please do make it in black. As stupid as it sounds I went with the 1-4 over the 1-6 just because of the color.
xXGearheadXx  [Member]
4/12/2013 4:04:22 PM
SWFA 1-6 owner here...I may be a little biased here but i'd take the mil/mil floating dot reticle on the SWFA over a BDC any day of the week.
57Strat  [Team Member]
4/12/2013 4:55:20 PM
What about the US Optics SR-6 1.5-6X DFP? This scope seems to have it all; first and also second focal plane reticles, and a illuminated option. What do you guys think of this scope?

http://www.usoptics.com/optics/sr-6-dfp.html

Hater  [Team Member]
4/12/2013 5:07:08 PM

Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
I'd go with the Vortex. My only complaint is the stupid "shadow black" color they use. If anybody is listening??? The Razor's would be more better in normal black. If I want some funky color I will paint it. YMMV.

I think it'll look good on my Amazing Technicolor SCAR 17.
Unicron  [Member]
4/12/2013 7:16:12 PM
Just got the optic in, wow the color is strange alright. And the thing is a pig (weight).
Good thing it's goin on a gaming rifle so not to big a deal.

Red dot is bright...I am impressed.
Comparing to my TR24 the glass seems good.

FALARAK  [Team Member]
4/13/2013 5:23:25 PM
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
What about the US Optics SR-6 1.5-6X DFP? This scope seems to have it all; first and also second focal plane reticles, and a illuminated option. What do you guys think of this scope?

http://www.usoptics.com/optics/sr-6-dfp.html



I wont shoot with an optic that doesn't have a true 1x, due to the type of shooting I do.
Hokie  [Team Member]
4/13/2013 6:17:01 PM
Originally Posted By xXGearheadXx:
SWFA 1-6 owner here...I may be a little biased here but i'd take the mil/mil floating dot reticle on the SWFA over a BDC any day of the week.


Same here. I haven't laid eyes on the Vortex. I'd love to but it's likely not in the cards. A side to side comparison would be fun to do. I personally put a lot of stock in how the reticle delivers without illumination. Its only my opinion but I think batteries should be a supplement not a requirement for an optic to be useful.
Chrome308  [Member]
4/14/2013 10:17:52 AM
I was able to zero my SWFA 1-6 yesterday and it reminds me how much I like the mil/mil thing. Only took 2 shots to get within 1 MOA of a perfect zero from only a visual bore 'sight'. FWIW the illumination is better built on the 1-6 than on the early 1-4 models. The eyebox is a little better than I expected on a 1-6. The center dot reticle at 6x made sub 1" groups easy enough. Unfortunately the 750y range was closed for shooting, so yesterday was 50m only.

Glad to hear the Razor has bright illumination, and how is the battery life?

Bhart89  [Team Member]
4/14/2013 10:33:06 AM
IOR Valdada has some interesting 1-X and 2-X riflescopes that should also be considered.
Paid Advertisement
--