AR15.Com Archives
 Aimpoint T1 vs M4s
narphenal  [Member]
7/10/2011 7:38:27 AM EST
Within the next two weeks, I should be ordering my optic for my AR.

I've been dead set on a CompM4s, but have been having second thoughts, and have been looking at getting a T1.
It seems like the T1 is currently a lot of people's favorites.

The T1 is much lighter, but the M4 takes commonly available batteries and has an amazing battery life.

Either way, they would be ordered with Larue mounts on.

You guys have any input?
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MP0117  [Member]
7/10/2011 7:48:51 AM EST
T-1.

I love the 2 MOA dot on the M4, but can't justify doubling the weight. A 4" dot at 100 yards is plenty to get the job done.

IMHO the DD T-1 mount rocks, and is a little cheaper than the LT mount.

Batteries for the T-1 can be purchased at Home Depot and last 5 years.
urbanredneck  [Member]
7/10/2011 7:58:33 AM EST
I'm running a R-1 ($300 on Midway closeout) on a winchester mount along with flip sights that co-witness. The winchester mount runs $40, can't justify a $180 quick release when I can flip up the rear sight and keep going in case of any failure.

Good light package. Only drawback for me is the lack of flip-up lense caps, gotta use the rubber cups that came with the sight.
dcalloway  [Member]
7/10/2011 8:06:26 AM EST
You really can't go wrong either way. I personally prefer the m4s strictly for the battery type. Take a look at Energizer lithium AA's - these have a 15 year shelf life. And even at the expiration date, these still will have a significant charge remaining. The M4s also offers a larger tube which helps with viewing the dot in awkward shooting positions.
Casper507  [Member]
7/10/2011 8:29:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By narphenal:
but the M4 takes commonly available batteries and has an amazing battery life.


What? So you have to change the cell every year on your birthday vs. every 5 years on your physical?
Bub0214  [Member]
7/10/2011 9:39:37 AM EST
t1 with larue mount. the dot doesn't seem as big as you think. just keep it turned to lowest setting required to see dot.
narphenal  [Member]
7/10/2011 9:41:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Casper507:
Originally Posted By narphenal:
but the M4 takes commonly available batteries and has an amazing battery life.


What? So you have to change the cell every year on your birthday vs. every 5 years on your physical?


That was the thought. I don't really know right now, but I will probably finalize my decision once I have the cash in hand.
urbanredneck  [Member]
7/10/2011 10:01:25 AM EST
And I think the battery in the t-1 is a 2032 or something like that. You can buy them anywhere also. You can buy two spares and you got enough battery power for the next 15 years.
LOMartin  [Team Member]
7/10/2011 11:10:34 AM EST
It's funny when people bring up the battery issue. These things last for years. In those years I'm pretty sure you will an extra battery somewhere.
Needless to say all these batteries are sold everywhere.
.02 I switched all my aimpoints to T-1's with a larue mount(t$95 not $180 as someone posted above)

Make a few calls and see if any local store has them to check out in person before you buy.
jlow  [Team Member]
7/10/2011 11:28:23 AM EST
I don’t worry about the durability, batteries or weight on either – both are excellent.

For CQB, I would choose the T1 because of the size and weight, but if you plan to shoot longer distance i.e. 100 yards plus, then the choice is clear – M4s.

I tried both and the 4MOA dot regardless of what people say on the T1 is too big since it covers the whole black section and more on an NRA target. The 2MOA dot on the M4s is small enough that you will see a black outline allowing you to aim. Trust me, this makes a BIG difference.


Tomac  [Team Member]
7/10/2011 11:28:31 AM EST
I've owned & used both.
M4s if battery type, ultimate ruggedness or magnifier use (2moa dot) are important to you.
T1 if small size/weight are important.
Both are excellent and either would serve you well, pick the one that best suits your particular needs.
Tomac
revo357  [Member]
7/10/2011 11:46:47 AM EST
I just switched from M4s to a T-1 w/Larue mount. The reason I switched was that I had the opportunity to do so, by picking up a T-1 from Troy on their 4th of July sale and I passed the M4s to my dad. The battery issue is not an issue as 2032s are available everywhere, Target, Walmart, Home Depot Lowes, you name it. Yes, the AA will last you 8 years instead of 5 on the middle setting, but 5 is good enough for me. I think the 2032a actually have a longer shelf life than AA if you want to stock up, but don't quote me on that. What makes the difference for average shooter is the dot. 2 vs 4 MOA, however when you compare the two side by side the 4moa does not look twice as big, just a tiny bit. If your thing is to shoot targets you'll be fine up to 100yrds, anything passed that you might consider the 2MOA dot, so far I've only shot 100 yards and less, so the T-1 is just fine. I love the smaller size and lighter weight. The only thing that I do miss on my M4s is the flip up lens covers which you can't get on the T-1, except if you get the GGG mount which has them built in, but costs twice as much as Larue.
boomhower1820  [Member]
7/10/2011 4:32:48 PM EST
Is there any reason anyone is aware of that Aimpoint doesn't make a 2MOA T1/H1?
HunterKiller86  [Member]
7/10/2011 4:59:26 PM EST
The micro series utilizes the same technology but in a smaller package. Its because of the smaller tube that the dot becomes a few more MOA, not the technology inside.
ErikTaylor  [Team Member]
7/10/2011 5:08:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By boomhower1820:
Is there any reason anyone is aware of that Aimpoint doesn't make a 2MOA T1/H1?


The micro series use the same 2 MOA diode that the M4 series aimpoints. However because the tube of the micros are shorter in length when compared to the M series it appears larger than 2 MOA. Think of it this way: the more room (longer tube) the diode has the smaller the dot for the user. If the tube was 2 times the length of the M4 the dot would appear smaller than 2 MOA. Actually the dot in the micros aren't 4 MOA, but actually close to 3.4 MOA.
onceNeagle  [Member]
7/10/2011 9:27:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By jlow:
I don’t worry about the durability, batteries or weight on either – both are excellent.

For CQB, I would choose the T1 because of the size and weight, but if you plan to shoot longer distance i.e. 100 yards plus, then the choice is clear – M4s.

I tried both and the 4MOA dot regardless of what people say on the T1 is too big since it covers the whole black section and more on an NRA target. The 2MOA dot on the M4s is small enough that you will see a black outline allowing you to aim. Trust me, this makes a BIG difference.




I think if one is looking to target shoot for accuracy at longer distances and is concerned about a 4 MOA vs 2 MOA dot, then a red dot sight is not what the shooter should be using and you have completely missed the boat on what a rds is for. The 3.5 MOA dot of the T1 is perfectly sufficient for what the rds is designed to accomplish.

I vote for the T-1. AA batteries have an awful tendency to leak. I wouldn't trust a AA battery for 8 years to not leak in my expensive ass rds.
jlow  [Team Member]
7/11/2011 1:37:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By onceNeagle:
Originally Posted By jlow:
I don’t worry about the durability, batteries or weight on either – both are excellent.

For CQB, I would choose the T1 because of the size and weight, but if you plan to shoot longer distance i.e. 100 yards plus, then the choice is clear – M4s.

I tried both and the 4MOA dot regardless of what people say on the T1 is too big since it covers the whole black section and more on an NRA target. The 2MOA dot on the M4s is small enough that you will see a black outline allowing you to aim. Trust me, this makes a BIG difference.




I think if one is looking to target shoot for accuracy at longer distances and is concerned about a 4 MOA vs 2 MOA dot, then a red dot sight is not what the shooter should be using and you have completely missed the boat on what a rds is for. The 3.5 MOA dot of the T1 is perfectly sufficient for what the rds is designed to accomplish.

I vote for the T-1. AA batteries have an awful tendency to leak. I wouldn't trust a AA battery for 8 years to not leak in my expensive ass rds.

There is some truth in what you say and so some explanation is required. I was basically looking for an optic that has to pass muster for duel use (shooting CQB and longer distance) and since I have older eyes (can’t use irons), the M4 is still the best choice. I brought the RDS mostly for CQB but ending up also have to shoot a local military match that does not allow use any magnified optics, the M4s fill this bill.


Projektile  [Team Member]
7/11/2011 3:21:54 AM EST
I'm using a CompM4s and I've loved it thus far. IMHO a 2moa dot is a lot more versatile.
Yojimbo  [Member]
7/11/2011 3:29:41 AM EST
In my experience, the biggest difference between the T1 and the M4s/M3 is that the larger 30mm tube will be more forgiving of head position when shooting in unconventional positions such as Urban prone or SBU prone this is even more noticable when you are geared up with a chest rig and wearing a helmet. While I can the see size and weight advantages of the T1 I prefer the the larger Aimpoints because the dot is easier to aquire when you don't have the luxury of using a perfect cheekweld.
UncivilEngineer  [Team Member]
7/11/2011 5:24:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tomac:
I've owned & used both.
M4s if battery type, ultimate ruggedness or magnifier use (2moa dot) are important to you.
T1 if small size/weight are important.
Both are excellent and either would serve you well, pick the one that best suits your particular needs.
Tomac


Pretty sure the T1 is just as rugged. The Daniel Defense torture test was the best Aimpoint Micro ad I've seen.

https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
ErikTaylor  [Team Member]
7/11/2011 6:18:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Yojimbo:

In my experience, the biggest difference between the T1 and the M4s/M3 is that the larger 30mm tube will be more forgiving of head position when shooting in unconventional positions such as Urban prone or SBU prone this is even more noticable when you are geared up with a chest rig and wearing a helmet. While I can the see size and weight advantages of the T1 I prefer the the larger Aimpoints because the dot is easier to aquire when you don't have the luxury of using aperfect cheekweld.


I second this. I still run a T1, but understand that the dot is a little more difficult to pick up in odd positions.
narphenal  [Member]
7/18/2011 8:52:21 AM EST
Thanks everyone. I just went ahead and ordered an M4s on a LaRue LT659 mount.
ErikTaylor  [Team Member]
7/18/2011 5:21:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By narphenal:
Thanks everyone. I just went ahead and ordered an M4s on a LaRue LT659 mount.


You'll be very happy with that choice!
narphenal  [Member]
7/18/2011 5:42:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By ErikTaylor:
Originally Posted By narphenal:
Thanks everyone. I just went ahead and ordered an M4s on a LaRue LT659 mount.


You'll be very happy with that choice!


Main reason I decided to get an M4s is because I might get a Magnifier for it. I am actually looking at getting a magnifier from Botach since they are dirt cheap right now.
HunterKiller86  [Member]
7/19/2011 3:45:52 AM EST
I was thinking the same thing. But the rifle got pretty hefty when I put on both the m4s and the 3x. Im not weak, but the difference between the 3x on and off is pretty noticeable.
M4  [Life Member]
7/19/2011 4:44:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By narphenal:
Originally Posted By ErikTaylor:
Originally Posted By narphenal:
Thanks everyone. I just went ahead and ordered an M4s on a LaRue LT659 mount.


You'll be very happy with that choice!


Main reason I decided to get an M4s is because I might get a Magnifier for it. I am actually looking at getting a magnifier from Botach since they are dirt cheap right now.

The T1's work fine with a magnifier.


Manny2_0  [Member]
7/19/2011 8:31:24 AM EST
I have the m4 with the magnifier on my pof 30814.5

I like it, and the 2moa is stuipid nice, to me it is way worth it since I have a rifle that can get out to medium ranges

narphenal  [Member]
7/19/2011 3:18:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By narphenal:
Originally Posted By ErikTaylor:
Originally Posted By narphenal:
Thanks everyone. I just went ahead and ordered an M4s on a LaRue LT659 mount.


You'll be very happy with that choice!


Main reason I decided to get an M4s is because I might get a Magnifier for it. I am actually looking at getting a magnifier from Botach since they are dirt cheap right now.

The T1's work fine with a magnifier.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1RvWkLDu2VxM_q8X6LVjhUt5OFX7VO_ZbM_xVcyMYlrkLYIS0&t=1


I realize that, I meant it in regard to the 2 MOA dot.
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