AR15.Com Archives
 AR optic (Vortex Viper PST vs Burris XTR vs Trijicon AccuPoint)
SethP  [Member]
4/3/2011 11:21:05 AM
I have two ARs, currently I have aimpoints on both of them, I've decided that I want to drop one of the aimpoints and get something with a little more reach.

Which of these optics are most hardened and proven? I'm far from being knowledgeable on what the best optics are, so any recommendations would be good...

Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1C1SNNT_enUS395US395&q=viper+pst+1-4x24&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=17919181830243718238&sa=X&ei=HoyYTYXdDtCltwf8o6iRDA&ved=0CB0Q8wIwAA#

Burris XTR Tactical 1-4x24

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=225

Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x24, German #4 Crosshair and Amber Dot

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=232
357sig  [Member]
4/3/2011 5:40:35 PM
I have no experiance with the Burris butof those listed I would choose them in the order you listed. However I would take the SWFA SS 1-4 HD over any of them.


http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=531768

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=527840

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=532798
DonofKalifornia  [Team Member]
4/3/2011 5:51:56 PM
Originally Posted By 357sig:
I have no experiance with the Burris butof those listed I would choose them in the order you listed. However I would take the SWFA SS 1-4 HD over any of them.


http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=531768

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=527840

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=532798


I've owned a Burris and have a Trijicon now. Never handled the Vortex, but for me it's the SWFA SS 1-4 HD for the win.
Specop_007  [Team Member]
4/3/2011 6:13:15 PM
Based on fancy pictures I dont really care for the Trijicon reticle.

Based on field testing I think the Trijicon is the safest bet for being the most "battle proven" due to their Acog line. Do you really need a battlefield tested optic?
ihon  [Team Member]
4/4/2011 1:53:41 PM
I have had both the Burris 1-4x XTR and the Trijicon TR24 Accupoint with the post reticle. I do not have any experience with the Vortex. Both the Burris & Trijicon are nice optics with good glass. Both work great and are good to go.

With that said, I absolutely love my TR24 with the post reticle. It is big and bright. There is absolutely no way to loose that reticle in any lighting condition. Even when it get washed out, it is still a blacked out post. The down side is it gets in the way past 300 yards. But for me, my .223 carbine is a 0-300 range weapon. So for me, it is perfect.

I sold the Burris as the reticle was just a tad busy for me and I was not in love with it. But I will say it work very well and had pretty good glass. I just didn't fall in love with the reticle. If I shot past 300 yards on any regular basis, I probably would have liked it much more and kept it. Again, there is nothing wrong with the Burris, I just loved the Trijicon a bit more.
Singlestack_Wonder  [Team Member]
4/4/2011 3:08:53 PM
+1 on the Trijicon TR24.
Market_Garden  [Team Member]
4/4/2011 3:15:19 PM
I wouldn't consider the TR24 proven. I had one that filled with water while using it in rain. I also saw another one do the same thing. (both mine and the one I saw failed at a class) I've heard reports of canted reticles in other ones. There is also a guy who had one with a focus ring that was so loose it would turn on its own when he fired. Trijicon's customer service is slow as hell to address issues too. It took 6 weeks to get my TR24 back from Trijicon (they ended up sending me a new one.) Honestly, the only thing that the TR24 has going for it over other 1-4 scopes is that the fiber optic illumination is nice. Other than that there's really no advantage the TR24 has, and combined with my personal experience, and things I've read about I'd rather look elsewhere for something to buy. I have upgraded to a Nightforce 1-4 and I love it. Of the three optics you listed, I'd take the PST. I've heard positive things about them and all my experiences with Vortex have been positive, and they have amazing customer service.
Singlestack_Wonder  [Team Member]
4/4/2011 6:18:24 PM

Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
I wouldn't consider the TR24 proven. I had one that filled with water while using it in rain. I also saw another one do the same thing. (both mine and the one I saw failed at a class) I've heard reports of canted reticles in other ones. There is also a guy who had one with a focus ring that was so loose it would turn on its own when he fired. Trijicon's customer service is slow as hell to address issues too. It took 6 weeks to get my TR24 back from Trijicon (they ended up sending me a new one.) Honestly, the only thing that the TR24 has going for it over other 1-4 scopes is that the fiber optic illumination is nice. Other than that there's really no advantage the TR24 has, and combined with my personal experience, and things I've read about I'd rather look elsewhere for something to buy. I have upgraded to a Nightforce 1-4 and I love it. Of the three optics you listed, I'd take the PST. I've heard positive things about them and all my experiences with Vortex have been positive, and they have amazing customer service.

Interesting. Have not seen reports of Trijicon problems here or at M4C. My TR24R has ran flawlessly for almost a year parked on a 7.62x51 AR with 8000+ rounds downrange so far. Based on my experience, I would buy another.
Hokie  [Team Member]
4/4/2011 11:14:54 PM
They are all nice scopes. I've owned all three. That said, if you're in the TR21/24 price range check out the SS 1-4 HD. Best low power variable I've ever come across. I even like it better than Nightforce and S&B. If you're set on those three, I'd go with the Accupoint if all your shooting is below 200 yards.

Good luck!
bravo5two  [Member]
4/5/2011 7:32:54 AM
Burris XTR - Very good glass but I don't really care for the 5.56 reticle. It looks nice on paper but in actual use (competition shoot at multiple steel targets at various distance) under the timer, the reticle is too busy.

Trijicon TR24 - Glass is good but not as bright as the Burris XTR. I have the simple post/triangle and it is my go to scope for 3 gun matches. I tried the #1 cross hair with dot and it was not as fast to pickup in close range.

Vortex PST - Looked through one at the match and it has very good glass but the reticle is almost as busy as the Burris XTR. Doesn't seem to make sense to have target turrets when the reticle already have BDC.

Don't know what you mean by 'hardened' and 'proven' but anyone of the three listed should serve most applications well.
foreman2000  [Member]
4/5/2011 2:06:34 PM
The Viper pst is not "bdc" it is moa or mill but you can order custom caps and have your range pre set...
SA80Dan  [Member]
4/5/2011 9:18:25 PM
Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder:

Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
I wouldn't consider the TR24 proven. I had one that filled with water while using it in rain. I also saw another one do the same thing. (both mine and the one I saw failed at a class) I've heard reports of canted reticles in other ones. There is also a guy who had one with a focus ring that was so loose it would turn on its own when he fired. Trijicon's customer service is slow as hell to address issues too. It took 6 weeks to get my TR24 back from Trijicon (they ended up sending me a new one.) Honestly, the only thing that the TR24 has going for it over other 1-4 scopes is that the fiber optic illumination is nice. Other than that there's really no advantage the TR24 has, and combined with my personal experience, and things I've read about I'd rather look elsewhere for something to buy. I have upgraded to a Nightforce 1-4 and I love it. Of the three optics you listed, I'd take the PST. I've heard positive things about them and all my experiences with Vortex have been positive, and they have amazing customer service.

Interesting. Have not seen reports of Trijicon problems here or at M4C. My TR24R has ran flawlessly for almost a year parked on a 7.62x51 AR with 8000+ rounds downrange so far. Based on my experience, I would buy another.


I'm the guy who had the focus ring issue....and as MG says here, I found Trijicon's customer service sucked so bad when I finally did get it addressed (talking a couple of months here), I was so sick of them and waiting that I'd already gone ahead and gotten a Viper PST, and sold the replacement Trijicon immediately after it came back to me; the experience really soured my opinion of them. As it turns out, I'm pleased it panned out that way...while I did really like the red triangle reticle on the TR24R I had, and also the no batteries day/night always on illumination, the Vortex has the better glass IMO (especially around the edges), and now I am using it, am really liking the reticle for my 3 gun matches. I absolutely do not feel any disadvantage at all when compared with the TR24. In addition, the eye box is really generous (again I'd give it a slight nod over the TR24 - the PST is really unpicky about where you have your head) and the turrets have a really positive feel to them, as does the whole scope - it really feels like a top quality robust unit. And for those 300+ yard shots (the area where the TR24s triangle reticle starts falling down a bit), the PSTs is very usable indeed - and you have the option to quick dial instead if you so choose. As already mentioned, Vortex's customer service and warranty policy is also absolutely outstanding; not needed it, but I've heard nothing but great things and I really appreciate the way they actively contribute and engage with the firearms community online - very impressed, and after the awful experience with Trijicon, is one of the driving factors which pushed me towards them. The only slight downside to the Viper PST IMO is the daytime illumination could be better - however, that really does not detract from the usability of the optic under any circumstances, its more of a minor niggle. I'd well recommend it; the other thing about it too is that it is priced cheaper (but the quality is most certainly no less).
357sig  [Member]
4/5/2011 10:34:13 PM
The SWFA SS 1-4X24 HD offers a "red dot" like scope for up close and "switches" to a clear, precise mil dot scope because of the FFP feature. It is the best scope I have found for covering the full effective range of the 5.56 rounds capabilities.

The SWFA SS 1-4X24 HD at 700 yards with a 5.56 RRA 24" Varminter.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

kilroymcb  [Member]
4/6/2011 9:02:20 AM
I actually had the same issue with the focus ring on the TR-24. I wonder if the problem is more common then some are letting on...
Originally Posted By SA80Dan:
Originally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder:

Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
I wouldn't consider the TR24 proven. I had one that filled with water while using it in rain. I also saw another one do the same thing. (both mine and the one I saw failed at a class) I've heard reports of canted reticles in other ones. There is also a guy who had one with a focus ring that was so loose it would turn on its own when he fired. Trijicon's customer service is slow as hell to address issues too. It took 6 weeks to get my TR24 back from Trijicon (they ended up sending me a new one.) Honestly, the only thing that the TR24 has going for it over other 1-4 scopes is that the fiber optic illumination is nice. Other than that there's really no advantage the TR24 has, and combined with my personal experience, and things I've read about I'd rather look elsewhere for something to buy. I have upgraded to a Nightforce 1-4 and I love it. Of the three optics you listed, I'd take the PST. I've heard positive things about them and all my experiences with Vortex have been positive, and they have amazing customer service.

Interesting. Have not seen reports of Trijicon problems here or at M4C. My TR24R has ran flawlessly for almost a year parked on a 7.62x51 AR with 8000+ rounds downrange so far. Based on my experience, I would buy another.


I'm the guy who had the focus ring issue....and as MG says here, I found Trijicon's customer service sucked so bad when I finally did get it addressed (talking a couple of months here), I was so sick of them and waiting that I'd already gone ahead and gotten a Viper PST, and sold the replacement Trijicon immediately after it came back to me; the experience really soured my opinion of them. As it turns out, I'm pleased it panned out that way...while I did really like the red triangle reticle on the TR24R I had, and also the no batteries day/night always on illumination, the Vortex has the better glass IMO (especially around the edges), and now I am using it, am really liking the reticle for my 3 gun matches. I absolutely do not feel any disadvantage at all when compared with the TR24. In addition, the eye box is really generous (again I'd give it a slight nod over the TR24 - the PST is really unpicky about where you have your head) and the turrets have a really positive feel to them, as does the whole scope - it really feels like a top quality robust unit. And for those 300+ yard shots (the area where the TR24s triangle reticle starts falling down a bit), the PSTs is very usable indeed - and you have the option to quick dial instead if you so choose. As already mentioned, Vortex's customer service and warranty policy is also absolutely outstanding; not needed it, but I've heard nothing but great things and I really appreciate the way they actively contribute and engage with the firearms community online - very impressed, and after the awful experience with Trijicon, is one of the driving factors which pushed me towards them. The only slight downside to the Viper PST IMO is the daytime illumination could be better - however, that really does not detract from the usability of the optic under any circumstances, its more of a minor niggle. I'd well recommend it; the other thing about it too is that it is priced cheaper (but the quality is most certainly no less).


shootist87122  [Member]
4/7/2011 1:08:13 AM
Several guys here run the Burris 1.5-6 with BDC reticle on .308 A/Rs and they have held up well. Not the 1-4 that you mentioned, but the 1.5-6 has some hard use history and is more "proven" thus far than the others (specifically the PST and SS).

I shoot a PST 1-4 on my 14.5" A/R and love it. It's a true 1x on the low end with an outstanding CQB reticle and enough power for mid-range precision. I've run mine to 500 Meters with good results on my SPR and stretched it to 600 Meters on an 8" gong. It won't match my 2.5-10x32 NF for long range work (duh!), but it wins hands down for CQB and holds it's own to ~400 yards. It's the best $500 I've ever spent on an optic.

500 Meters with the PST and my 77 grain SMK reload:



CPD1515  [Member]
4/7/2011 8:59:16 AM
Just received my Vortex Viper PST MRAD 1-4x! The quality is top notch!!! This is my first scope by Vortex and I am very pleased with construction as well as the Glass quality. Some people have complained about the illumination during daylight although I think it's fine. I am ordering either a LaRue Mount or an American Defense Recon Mount. Will post pics when mounted.
Optics I have owned over the last (2) years:
Trijicon Accupoint 1.25x-4x
Nikon M-223 1-4x
IOR 3x CQB
Bushnell Elite 3200 10x
Eotech XPS
Aimpoint ML3
SPTiger  [Team Member]
4/7/2011 3:53:37 PM
I want the Vortex for my 6.8 AR. I was at Sportsman's Warehouse last night and saw one in the case with no price tag. I couldn't remember if it was supposed to be $399 or $499. I almost got it for $249. The kid behind the counter couldn't seem to find the box to scan so he just grabbed the first empty Vortex box he could find. It rang up $249. I told him that online line it was over three hundred. He apparently didn't know what to look for on the end of the box to know which scope went with which box. By then another employee came along and he asked him about the box. The other guy dug around for a while and found the right box and it scanned $499.

The scope was really clear, but I guess they all are in the store. It would be the perfect size and power scope for my 6.8.
CPD1515  [Member]
4/7/2011 8:06:24 PM
Just buy it, you will not regret it!
SA80Dan  [Member]
4/8/2011 9:26:41 AM
Originally Posted By SPTiger:
I want the Vortex for my 6.8 AR.

The scope was really clear, but I guess they all are in the store. It would be the perfect size and power scope for my 6.8.


...They are really clear out on the range as well!! As the poster above said, I doubt you'll regret it; I'm really impressed with this scope, even at its $500 price it is punching well above its weight IMHO.
JeremySS  [Member]
4/8/2011 9:42:57 AM
Not trying to get off topic, but why not consider the GRSC and the SWFA SS scopes? For the price the GRSC offers alot of functionality. For close to the same price as the TR24, the SS is a much more usuable scope for GP.