AR15.Com Archives
 Replacement clamp for Matech BUIS
Harv24  [Team Member]
12/22/2009 11:42:46 PM
The good folks at Battle Arms Development send me a replacement mounting clamp for the MaTech BUIS to T/E.

Here it is and the package it comes in.



as you can see in this pic, the Replacement (on left) compared to the OEM unit that comes with the Matech (On right) is much beefier. The big issue with the OEM unit was that lots of folks and Joes were busting them by over tightening. Mostly due to not being smart enough to RTFM (Read the F*&king manual)


But also due to not making the clamp thick enough to prevent your average snuffy from doing that. The clamp appears to be well made.


Here it is mounted. The clamp is countersunk to keep the cap screw head from sticking out like the original clamp. I reefed (technical term) on the 7/64 allen head screw and it mounted securely with no issues.

I like the MaTech BUIS. It's not the best, and it has a few flaws (Staked area that holds down the spring loaded sight wears causing it to pop up , Clamp breaks, Aperture too small. ) but the aperture can be drilled open, the stake can be re done and now the clamp issue is resolved. The sights can be had for under $50 and I like steel over Plastic on something designed to be used as a sighting system for a weapon.
If you have one and suffer from a broken clamp.. now you have an option....
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Duffy  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 5:47:19 PM
Thanks Harv




TNVC_Clasky  [Industry Partner]
12/23/2009 6:30:36 PM
I got one of these to replace the standard mount on my Matech BUIS. It is extremely robust and drops in readily. If you have a Matech BUIS, I highly suggest this little BIG upgrade!
bwehn  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 7:20:47 PM
I can't find it on the web sight. How do you order it, what do they charge for it and shipping?
Duffy  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 7:32:31 PM
Retrofit Kit for Matech

JasonK94Z  [Member]
12/23/2009 7:55:48 PM
What size did you drill the aperture out to?
Harv24  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 8:21:08 PM
about 4cm



and this is what I used



and this is what it looks like now...

bwehn  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 8:52:28 PM
Originally Posted By Duffy:
Retrofit Kit for Matech



Thanks, I just ordered one
Duffy  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 9:10:45 PM
Here's a pic that shows the new clamp's significant increase in thickness

Lancelot  [Moderator]
12/23/2009 9:32:34 PM
That looks great.

Not to hijack, but is there a way to tell if a Matech is real or fake? There seem to be a lot for sale right now on the EE.

The reason I ask is, I have seen some I know are real with different markings then the ones I seem to encounter most often. Any help here?
Duffy  [Team Member]
12/23/2009 10:08:01 PM
As far as I know there appears to be a version that looks slightly different than the ones we see more often, mostly cosmetics I think...
Lancelot  [Moderator]
12/24/2009 11:44:51 AM
I have seen them with the Picatinny logo on the side.
Harv24  [Team Member]
12/24/2009 1:34:05 PM
That must be newer sights. The older MaTechs just have the name on them.
Lancelot  [Moderator]
12/24/2009 8:12:47 PM
Cool. Building an A4 clone. Starting to really look at these.
JasonK94Z  [Member]
12/24/2009 8:16:38 PM




Thanks. I might give that a try. I really like this sight for it's elevation adjustment.
armorer_91f  [Member]
12/25/2009 12:13:41 AM
These are really good sights guys.I see tons of these sights on a daily basis that come through our shop.They really can take a beating.OP thanks for the great post.I'm going to be ordering one of these for my Matech.
Lancelot  [Moderator]
12/29/2009 7:58:16 AM
bump
Lancelot  [Moderator]
12/29/2009 9:10:42 PM




How does the larger aperture affect your groups? Or does it? For those of us with aging eyes this stuff is important!

Duffy  [Team Member]
12/29/2009 10:31:44 PM
Harv's mod looks pretty good to me. KAC's 300M aperture is very large (without the plastic insert), the Matech's is too small for CQB, Harv's seems somewhere in between
Harv24  [Team Member]
12/29/2009 11:54:54 PM
When I recheck my zero from time to time, I use the standard GI issue zero target and I can still drop 3 -5 rd clusters inside the 4cm circle.
The larger aperture makes the front sight post much easier to see.

I tried drilling out the aperture the first time with a plain old Drill bit...... never made a dent, that steel is harder then woodpecker lips...

The carbide bit zipped thru real easy.
Lancelot  [Moderator]
12/30/2009 7:50:47 AM
Your photo makes it appear that the aperture is the exact and or correct size for the front ring to sit inside the rear ring, so to speak. Might make lining up the sights easier, and or more precise to some extent.
JohnMikerson  [Team Member]
12/30/2009 12:25:40 PM
that is 4mm btw
TNVC  [Industry Partner]
1/1/2010 2:32:43 PM
This IS a great upgrade as I've torqued off 2 sets of factory screws in the past. I know my bad, but what we now have in this offering is fool proof!
Harv24  [Team Member]
1/1/2010 2:49:08 PM
Very true, since most folks don't read the manuals that come with anything, they clearly don't read the Matech instal instructions that clearly state to tighten the locking bolt until it's stops and then give it an additional 1/4 turn. With lock tight that is more then sufficient.

But Matech forget that these were destined for the .Mil and they are notorious for breaking stuff..... This is the locking bar that Matech should have made for them.
Duffy  [Team Member]
1/1/2010 3:33:01 PM
When I got a Matech in 2003 and snapped the screw, I went to the local hardware store and bought 4 more screws with the same thread pitch (had to grind off the extra length), and promptly broke two more of those el cheapo screws with as much ease as I did the factory screw, before I stopped torquing it so much (yep I'm a little slow )

The retrofit kit's screw is a grade 8, the same grade as the carrier gas key
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/1/2010 4:38:04 PM
We need an improve the Matech thread.

First this.
Second the aperture.
Third the pop up or not issue.

Could be fun.
Duffy  [Team Member]
1/1/2010 5:54:26 PM
We could start one ask ask a mod to pin it? The questions do come up often enough
MSTN  [Industry Partner]
1/1/2010 9:19:25 PM
NICE (IMPROVEMENT) KIT.
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/1/2010 10:12:22 PM
This is not a great picture. I found it somewhere buried in the Google images. You can see the Picatinny logo on the side. I'm still looking for a better picture.

Duffy  [Team Member]
1/1/2010 11:58:20 PM
Yep the one I've seen looks like that too, with the weird, bridge looking logo
wildearp  [Team Member]
1/2/2010 12:27:52 AM


You mean 2.5-3mm, or 4/32".

Otterstedt  [Member]
1/2/2010 2:04:28 AM
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
We need an improve the Matech thread.

First this.
Second the aperture.
Third the pop up or not issue.

Could be fun.



Is there a fix for this? There are several in my platoon that won't stay down. I like the sight but am hesitating to buy one for a build, for that reason.
Otterstedt  [Member]
1/2/2010 2:05:06 AM
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
We need an improve the Matech thread.

First this.
Second the aperture.
Third the pop up or not issue.

Could be fun.



Is there a fix for this? There are several in my platoon that won't stay down. I like the sight but am hesitating to buy one for a build, for that reason.

...I posted twice 'cuz I really really want to know...
Harv24  [Team Member]
1/2/2010 2:22:56 AM
Give me some time and I will post some pics. The short answer is to use a drift punch or the field expedient equivalent and hit the spot that has extra metal sticking out (the part that holds the spring loaded aperture from popping up) What your doing is displacing some more metal to replace what wore down.
Duffy  [Team Member]
1/2/2010 9:59:32 AM
It's the little protrusion on the left, inside of the sight stalk housing (not the main housing, but the one that moves up and down with the windage adjustment)

See red circle. All of my Matechs are on loan or I'd take a pic or two, this is the closest I can find

KBAD  [Team Member]
1/2/2010 10:14:38 AM
Just ordered 2 of these. Free shipping
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/2/2010 11:10:59 AM
Originally Posted By Duffy:
Yep the one I've seen looks like that too, with the weird, bridge looking logo




So the question is, is that mark new? I have seen them with and without. I guess it might be a new revision thing. Do we know if Matech has made more then one revision of the sight?
Duffy  [Team Member]
1/2/2010 4:14:48 PM
I don't think so....but having never seen a Matech thus marked, I can't say for sure
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/2/2010 9:50:34 PM
Well when my clamp "upgrade" gets here, I'll post some pics.

Harv24  [Team Member]
1/3/2010 7:22:52 PM
OK, Here is my DIY fox to the detent being worn on a MaTech BUIS.

Here is what the small detent looks like



Now go find you self a punch. I used a old Nail set punch



The goal is to use that punch to displace some metal inward towards the pop up aperture. Take the sight off the gun and place it in a vice. For all you Joes deployed, go find a Maint truck with a vice on the bumper...

Then give it several good whacks...


You should be able to feel the pop up aperture feel a little stiffer when trying to deploy it. You may have to give is several good hits to displace enough metal. (Disclaimer: if you hit it to hard and break it... that's on you......)

and here is what it looks like.



And here is a pic of the aperture that I opened up. I remeasured it to clarify what the new opening size is... It's now a 4mm (that's Millimeter) aperture. much more usable then the OEM opening.


Hope this helps.



Otterstedt  [Member]
1/3/2010 7:36:32 PM
Originally Posted By Harv24:
OK, Here is my DIY fox to the detent being worn on a MaTech BUIS.

Here is what the small detent looks like

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/Matech001.jpg

Now go find you self a punch. I used a old Nail set punch

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/Matech002.jpg

The goal is to use that punch to displace some metal inward towards the pop up aperture. Take the sight off the gun and place it in a vice. For all you Joes deployed, go find a Maint truck with a vice on the bumper...

Then give it several good whacks...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/Matech004.jpg

You should be able to feel the pop up aperture feel a little stiffer when trying to deploy it. You may have to give is several good hits to displace enough metal. (Disclaimer: if you hit it to hard and break it... that's on you......)

and here is what it looks like.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/Matech004.jpg


And here is a pic of the aperture that I opened up. I remeasured it to clarify what the new opening size is... It's now a 4mm (that's Millimeter) aperture. much more usable then the OEM opening.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/Matech005.jpg

Hope this helps.





How many times can this procedure be performed, before the sight becomes unserviceable?

Our armorer would never allow this. we're lucky even to be allowed to carry weapons.
Harv24  [Team Member]
1/3/2010 7:44:33 PM
Not sure. These sights should be an expendable Item and easily replaceable thru the supply system. I'm not sure why so many are wearing out. My gut and knowing how young Joes are, me thinks a lot of them are fiddle fuckin with them causing that metal nub to wear... It's a back up sight. Once zeroed, there should be few times it needs to be deployed other then to confirm a good zero with your primary or to actually use. The only other scenario I can think of is your unit inherited some old ones that have been around.... Tell that lazin fuckin Armorer to do his job and deadline and DX those.....

Otterstedt  [Member]
1/3/2010 7:53:08 PM
Originally Posted By Harv24:
Not sure. These sights should be an expendable Item and easily replaceable thru the supply system. I'm not sure why so many are wearing out. My gut and knowing how young Joes are, me thinks a lot of them are fiddle fuckin with them causing that metal nub to wear... It's a back up sight. Once zeroed, there should be few times it needs to be deployed other then to confirm a good zero with your primary or to actually use. The only other scenario I can think of is your unit inherited some old ones that have been around.... Tell that lazin fuckin Armorer to do his job and deadline and DX those.....


These are, in fact, handoffs from an infantry unit which got them new before last rotation. Rumor has it we are keeping them and they are getting new ones again. I think there are new sights on order, actually, but...

I am mainly curious because I am considering this model for my AR back home. I am afraid it would wear quickly, as I intend to practice alot with both sights, red-dot and BUIS.
Harv24  [Team Member]
1/3/2010 8:15:14 PM
I bought mine used about 2 years ago. With normal usage (.Mil service is not normal) These units should work well and last a long time. They work well for what they are and you can outfit two uppers vs. buying a Troy BUIS..

Like I have said before, they are not Cadillac's of BUIS's, but they work in the intended purpose.
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/3/2010 11:01:22 PM
That's a good question. I too would wonder how many are actually wearing out in non-military use.
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/4/2010 8:16:59 PM
Got my clamp today. We'll get 'er on there tonight.
Talyn  [Member]
1/9/2010 2:32:32 PM
Got my clamp today. Great customer service from the guys at Battle Arms Development, Inc. Fast shipping too.

The new clamp & screw are a definte improvement to the sight. While I don't deploy my Matech much since it IS a back-up I know know I have a more durable set-up.

My .02.

Thanks Roger & George!
Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/9/2010 9:20:38 PM
Originally Posted By Talyn:
Got my clamp today. Great customer service from the guys at Battle Arms Development, Inc. Fast shipping too.

The new clamp & screw are a definte improvement to the sight. While I don't deploy my Matech much since it IS a back-up I know know I have a more durable set-up.

My .02.

Thanks Roger & George!


pics when you can..
missiontrails  [Member]
1/12/2010 10:04:29 PM
LWRC stocks the clamp parts on their website, and they are cheap.
Duffy  [Team Member]
1/12/2010 11:00:15 PM
The difference between the LWRC replacement kit and the retrofit kit is a qualitative one, in terms of costs, LWRC actually costs more ($18 plus $17 or so for shipping, vs. $25 shipped)

LWRC's replacements are the same bracket and screws that ship with the sight. I reckon once someone overtorques the screw and breaks it, he'd learn not to do so again, this doesn't change that the screw isn't as robust as it should be, and the bracket is still the same thin clamp.

There are two reasons the recoil screw tends to break while the sight is installed:
1. The oversized Allen head is mated to a rather small diameter screw body, this isn't a good combination, as one can exert more torque with a bigger wrench.
2. The strength of the recoil screw is underwhelming. 30Lbs/Inch of torque is enough to snap the factory screw in two.

The retrofit kit's screw is the same grade as the screws used on AR15/M16 carrier gas keys, it's s much better quality screw. The clamp is cut and machined from a bar stock, its shape and location of the screw hole have been changed to better allow the sight sitting square on the receiver when mounted.

Then there's the issue of AFTER the sight's mounted. If the rifle were to fall and and landed on the concrete with the sight taking some of the force, a stronger recoil screw and bracket will only help the sight survive the drop.

The Matech sight has its issues, some of which are design flaws that can't be fixed with aftermarket kits, the clamp and screws however, can be improved

Lancelot  [Moderator]
1/26/2010 7:39:32 AM
btt
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