AR 15 preban mags

<Edited...dpmmn>.
I need an education as to green, black or tan followers and anti tilt followers etc.
How do I know which ones I should buy ?

The ones that I currently have are new, old stock Colts and they have the black followers, but have no dates that I could find. I not 100% sure, but I believe in NY that you need "dated" pre-ban mags to prove they were actually made prior to the federal AWB, but those are more difficult to find since dating was not standard practice prior to the ban. Good luck!

For standard USGI mags I prefer Magpul followers, I changed all of my mags to the yellow ones for easy identification.

Pretty much. Although it is not explicitly stated, the burden of proof lies with the person with the pre-ban mags to prove that they are pre-ban, or be in violation of a felony.

I do have some for sale if you're really interested (date stamped).

This is true that the Magpul followers are a good upgrade, but I believe that the op was asking about follower colors in reference to identifying them as pre-bans since certain "stock" follower types were not made prior to the ban.

no dates = pre band in NY. dated is just a + but not needed.

any mag made during the AWB was dated and/or has LEO/Restricted/Military/Gov. use only. after the AWB sunset, they are dated and/or manufacture name stamped as well.




edit: buy whatever pre AWB date mags, or undated mags, with any follower, then replace all followers with magpul gen 3 anti tilt followers.

Can you provide a source for this information.

Same here in Massachusetts,anything not dated or LEO Govt marked is considered pre-ban.Preban mags had black followers..then the semi-ant tilt green now its a tan follower that coppies the magpul anti tilt but the govt made the folloer so the fake bullet hump is on the right so when the mags loade the first round out feeds from the left im sure they did that to avoid any problems from magpul making any claim that they basically copied their follower.

Topic Moved

Left to right:

Metal follower from USGI 20rd mag

Black plastic used in virtually all "pre-ban" mags prior to @1990. Note the lack of a front "leg" allowing it flop around

Green plastic used from @ 1990 to recently. Longer front leg prevents it from tilting as much as the black

Magpul anti-tilt prevents the follower from tilting at all.

Magpul is better than green which is better than black.

The new tan gov't follower (not shown) is a copy (more or less) of the Magpul. There are other companies that copied the MAgpul follower in various colors.



Followers are pretty cheap and interchangeable between GI spec aluminum 30rd mags. Your main concern as a NY'er is buying mags period. Don't pass up a good deal because of the follower.

Does anyone know what brands or manufacturers of pre-ban 20s are considered better?

For example, the 30 round Sanchez mags had a bad reputation for durability. Anything one should avoid in the 20 round mags?

Not that I know of. Universal, Colt, Okay, Adventure Line are the the ones I know of off hand and all are GTG.

You can use pre-ban magazines that are either date stamped (internally or externally) or not date stamped, an overwhelming majority are not stamped. I believe that only Center Industries date stamped some of their magazines before the ban.

Also someone stated that it is up to you to prove that they are pre-ban. That is not true, you are innocent until proven guilty, so it is up to the prosecution to prove they are not pre-ban. Whether or not you want to take the risk of having to deal with that is an entirely different issue. But it would be very, very, tough to prove that just because a magazine doesn't have a date stamp on it that it was made post-ban. Just make sure you buy your pre-ban mags from a reliable source, don't do anything stupid at the range, and you shouldn't have anyone eyeballing your magazines and questioning you. With that said, I stick strictly to date stamped magazines, it just makes me feel a tiny bit safer should I ever have to prove my mags legitimacy.

Also, in NY we have a bill making its rounds that may ban high cap mags completely, so be on the look out for fun stuff like that too. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_9/477605_A5866A_2011__to_outlaw_all_large_cap_mags_is_BACK.html

Okay/ Colt used inside dates. Okay/Colt and Center used outside dates.

No. The burden of proof lies with the prosecution. You have absolutely no need to prove anything. THEY have to prove the magazine was manufactured after September 13th 1994.

As far as date stamps go, they're just gravy. You don't need dated mags. As long as you stick with actual pre-ban mags, you're fine, regardless of what the floorplate says, or what color the follower is. It's the magazine body you need to be concerned with. If you're paranoid, Center Industries mags are date stamped on the outside. Okay industries mags are date stamped on the inside. Prior to 1986, there will be no year, just an "O" with a number on one half of the body, and a "K" with a number on the other. 1986 up have a year stamp also.

You don't have the first clue what you are talking about. There is no burden of proof on anyone. I and many people I know have hundreds of pre 94 magazinbes in NY without any date on them whatsoever. They are 100% legal and I don't need to prove anything. Stop spreading misinformation.

I hope you don´t mind me hijacking this thread but:

I cleaned some mags yesterday and noticed that my solitary old Labelle mag has no date stamp inside or out (the baseplate says Labelle, so i´ll assume it is?)

Could it be a preban? Got it with a bunch of ´93 dated mags once when i bought a used gun and its still going strong... (must´ve been rebuild though = green follower and crisp spring)

Labelle is preban. Never date stamped mags though.

Most preban mags were not date stamped, as there was no reason to do so because it wasn't illegal to possess them.

Some manufacturers used lot/batch numbers stamps (inside or outside) which could be used to prosecute post-ban if the right information could be had from the manufacturer.

Any post-ban mags were labeled LE/Mil use only on the side, so those are pretty easy to tell.

New production date free mags are pretty easy to come by. I've seen less honest people selling new production usgi mags with old production Colt, OKAY, etc. bottoms on them. Shady, but the burden of proof would rest on the prosecution.

In theory if the floorplate is preban the mag body could be considered a replacement and it would be a legal NY magazine. I've read the law front to back many times. It prohibits ASSEMBLING a new magazine so in theory if you owned a body, a spring, a floorplate and a follower in Augest 1994 in October 1994 you would be breaking the law by assembling them into a new magazine. It doesn't prohibit repair/parts replacement of an existing magazine. It is a pooly written law and I doubt they will ever prosecute anybody.

Where can I find this law to read myself ? I have Googled it and could not find the law.

No, that is not the case at all in New York. The body itself is the magazine. Floorplate, spring, and follower mean jack shit. You're gonna enjoy an extended vacation care of NYS if you have "components" like post ban high cap mag bodies laying around. People HAVE been prosecuted for the LCAFD nonsense.......and convicted. Remember folks, this ain't the old federal ban. What the ATF said was OK during the Fed ban means jack shit to New York State.

NYS firearms laws

As to "LCAFD":

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September
thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that has a capacity of, or
that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten
rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include
an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating
only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.


There is no provision in NY law, whatsoever, for buying "repair kits". General consensus is that it's ok to replace followers, springs, and floorplates.......but bodies are a big no-no.

Correct, in NY you can replace everything but the body itself.

However, most preban and postban mags have no dates. An pmag is going to be postban 100% of the time (except orlites), but an aluminum USGI mag with black or green followers and no date or lot number could be either, and the burden of proof would rest on the prosecution to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the mag body is post ban.

With preban floorplates, you're probably OK in NY with a naked mag body.

I have 20 of them myself and they all look new (for now) because I cleaned them up recently and refinished them all with crc dry moly lube, baked it on and rubbed off the excess, and then put new springs and gen3 yellow magpul followers in. I'm keeping all the Colt floorplates on just in case, and I also kept the original followers and springs just in case.

I went shooting with a Sheriff buddy of mine and he said he's never seen anyone prosecuted in my county for having postban mags they thought were preban, and the one guy who had pmags he knew of just got them all confiscated and charges were dropped.

I also live in the sticks of upstate NY where the county judge turns new pistol permits in 3 weeks and encourages you to put SD on your permit app. I like where I live, it's the one county in the state that still feels like America.

being a felony for having post ban mags seems a bit excessive to me. I mean yes if they were used in a crime, but not if they were sold to you and you didn't know and it was an honest mistake.
I talked to a Sheriff Deputy that had a table at a gun show and when I asked him about it, he said the majority of cops wouldn't know if they were pre ban or not, unless the cop was a SWAT member or someone that had experience in AR 15's

Incorrect. The law doesn't mention anything like that. If my memory is correct it only says you cannot assemble a new magazine. Replacing the body of a magazine using the old floorplate, follower, and spring is not assembling a new magazine. If you know otherwise please cite the part of the law that says you cannot replace a magazine body.....

Doesn't mention magazine bodies. A magazine is a body, follower, spring and floorplate. There is no provision for buying or NOT buying repair kits, which are sold all the time. Please tell me the cases that have been prosecuted-named and dates. The part about being readily restored refers to placing a blocker, screw, or rivet in the magazine to limit its capacity. You couldn't take a lancer and place a piece of wood in it to block it to ten rounds.

I've never heard of a person prosecuted over ban/post ban features, at all, and I am the ONLY person of my group of associates that makes any effort at all to be state compliant.

To quote one LEO friend, 'Look, we don't know what the fuck we're looking it. If it's semi auto and you're a normal looking person going to and from the range, we'll probably never even ask. If it's 3am and you look like you're up to some other shit, we'll charge and then see if it sticks just so the D.A. can plead you out easier. Quit being so fucking paranoid.'

That is a cut and paste from an IM conversation where I was stressing on the fact that my CETME mags weren't dated and I had thrown together my first M4 with the collapsing stock just to try it out before pinning it.

Upstate gives no fucks about this stuff, I can't imagine them going gangbusters on an undated mag unless they are already trying to nail you for a lot of other transgressions.

doubletap

That's pretty much always the case. It's just another charge in conjunction with other charges. I've seen several people charged with LCAFD in Meth Lab busts down here in the Southern Tier. Not sure about prosecution and conviction on those though.

What is LCAFD ? Just curious

Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device

Where at in the Southern Tier? That's where I am too... I can throw a rock to PA. PM me if opsec is an issue, it would be nice to know a couple more locals in the hobby.

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a4/a4.html

edit... if the company that is making the mag did not make mags prior to the ban, the they are post ban, dated or not. research your mag makers.

From what I've read on Calguns.net, here in CA you can rebuild pre-ban mags with post-ban parts and the resultant magazine is still considered pre-ban. As such, the above quoted example wouldn't be dishonest here in CA. If one goes as far as to replace the housing it is recommended that they keep the old housing in a disabled/crushed state to show to LE. IANAL, so use your own judgement.

Binghamton area (Endicott to be specific).

Ah. Olean area here, a few hours west.

Probably a good idea. Although according to the NY law no distinction is made to what the definition of a magazine is. No where does it say the "body is the magazine" as some have suggested. The body is just one of 4 parts needed to make a magazine. If one were to "rebuild" any magazine in NY it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some old, worn out, crushed parts around to show the jury.

You do have a point, as it isn't explicitly spelled out in the law. I always keep all of the old parts for my mags............floorplates, followers, springs, even original packaging, so there's never any doubt.

That law is so badly written the only way they could bust someone and make it stick is if you had a Lancer or Troy polymer or somthing that was absolutly made after 1994 with no parts interchangable with a preban magazine.

If there have been any convictions I would like to hear about them..........

here is the word for word from the AWB law its self....

"The law prohibited newly manufactured detachable magazines with a capacity of more than ten rounds manufactured after enactment of the law from sale, transfer, or importation. One effect was the increased importation from other countries of large quantities of magazines manufactured before the ban.[citation needed] Former Warsaw Pact countries had large quantities of AK-47 magazines of various capacities that could fit a variety of both pre-ban and post-ban AK-47 variants. Existing stocks of pre-ban American-made magazines were likewise exempt from the ban; this resulted in a brief surge in domestic manufacture of normal-capacity magazines before the law took effect. Normal-capacity magazines manufactured post-ban for military and law enforcement were stamped or etched with the logo "LEO" (for "Law Enforcement Only") and it was illegal for civilians to possess LEO magazines during the ban."

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