Archived Posts » 60,595,333
Temperature Swings and Condensation
4/26/2012 7:45:57 PM
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
4/26/2012 11:19:54 PM
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
4/26/2012 11:24:26 PM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
It was packed in my home after I received the ammo in the mail. Any suggestions on what I should do? Throw a in there a silica gel thing in there maybe?
4/27/2012 10:08:39 AM
Why worry about it? Military units around the world store ammo for decades and never put any dessicants in small arms ammo containers.
4/27/2012 10:44:36 AM
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
It was packed in my home after I received the ammo in the mail. Any suggestions on what I should do? Throw a in there a silica gel thing in there maybe?
It was packed in my home after I received the ammo in the mail. Any suggestions on what I should do? Throw a in there a silica gel thing in there maybe?
sit it on a shelf in a can.
the mil does not vacuum seal it or add desiccants, hell Ive cracked 60 yo cans of bmg that were fresh as the day they were packed.
4/27/2012 1:14:17 PM
Yes the military store there ammo like this.. But they also keep it in a controlled temperature environment in earth sheltered bunkers for years. Mine is going up and down and not at a constant 65 or w/e they store it at.
4/27/2012 2:51:18 PM
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
Yes the military store there ammo like this.. But they also keep it in a controlled temperature environment in earth sheltered bunkers for years. Mine is going up and down and not at a constant 65 or w/e they store it at.
Yes the military store there ammo like this.. But they also keep it in a controlled temperature environment in earth sheltered bunkers for years. Mine is going up and down and not at a constant 65 or w/e they store it at.
uhh no, its stored in conexes in the desert, or old buildings in the middle on nowhere. You think all the surplus from around the world is stored in controlled environments of which thousands of rounds are shot each day
Personally if your that concerned you should vac seal it in small bags, put those in a ammo can then add descant. I think your worried way too much about nothing
4/27/2012 3:20:07 PM
Vacuum purge to 0.01 Torr at 150C and then backfill with nitrogen. It is the only sure way!
4/27/2012 3:45:45 PM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
uhh no, its stored in conexes in the desert, or old buildings in the middle on nowhere. You think all the surplus from around the world is stored in controlled environments of which thousands of rounds are shot each day
Personally if your that concerned you should vac seal it in small bags, put those in a ammo can then add descant. I think your worried way too much about nothing
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
Yes the military store there ammo like this.. But they also keep it in a controlled temperature environment in earth sheltered bunkers for years. Mine is going up and down and not at a constant 65 or w/e they store it at.
Yes the military store there ammo like this.. But they also keep it in a controlled temperature environment in earth sheltered bunkers for years. Mine is going up and down and not at a constant 65 or w/e they store it at.
uhh no, its stored in conexes in the desert, or old buildings in the middle on nowhere. You think all the surplus from around the world is stored in controlled environments of which thousands of rounds are shot each day
Personally if your that concerned you should vac seal it in small bags, put those in a ammo can then add descant. I think your worried way too much about nothing
I cant find a good picture of a Marine Corps ASP. But there are HUGE earth sheltered bunkers in a 1 1/2 mile by 2 mile area at Lejeune that would blow your mind. Of course when the ammo gets to country it is in bad conditions. But long term storage its very controlled.
4/27/2012 10:47:33 PM
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
I cant find a good picture of a Marine Corps ASP. But there are HUGE earth sheltered bunkers in a 1 1/2 mile by 2 mile area at Lejeune that would blow your mind. Of course when the ammo gets to country it is in bad conditions. But long term storage its very controlled.
I cant find a good picture of a Marine Corps ASP. But there are HUGE earth sheltered bunkers in a 1 1/2 mile by 2 mile area at Lejeune that would blow your mind. Of course when the ammo gets to country it is in bad conditions. But long term storage its very controlled.
I doubt it, I've dropped a ton of shit that was stored around the world in these "sheltered bunkers". Surplus ammo from around the world is not stored like we can stateside. Guess what, no other place in the world stores ammo like we do, mostly its stored in subpar conditions, in the wars we currently fight tons of ammo is stored in conexes in the middle on nowhere in 120+.
If you think that you ammo needs that muck love and attention, then go for it but you are overdoing it.
4/27/2012 10:57:07 PM
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
I cant find a good picture of a Marine Corps ASP. But there are HUGE earth sheltered bunkers in a 1 1/2 mile by 2 mile area at Lejeune that would blow your mind. Of course when the ammo gets to country it is in bad conditions. But long term storage its very controlled.
I cant find a good picture of a Marine Corps ASP. But there are HUGE earth sheltered bunkers in a 1 1/2 mile by 2 mile area at Lejeune that would blow your mind. Of course when the ammo gets to country it is in bad conditions. But long term storage its very controlled.
Those earth sheltered bunkers are magazines designed to control (direct upwards) wxplosions. They are not designed to control the storage climate.
It's as just-about-as hot and damp in those bunkers (or cold and damp) as it is outside at Camp Lejeune. If it's 100° and 100% humidity at Lejeune, it's 89º and 100% humidity in those bunkers (until someone opens the door, then it's 100°).
The bunkers we had in the ASP at Bad Tölz were always wet and dank inside.
I've been in Army and Air Force ASPs all over the world, no difference.
4/29/2012 10:20:38 AM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
Here are some typical temp/humidity values for the conditioned portion of a house in summer and winter conditions.
If you filled the can in these conditions, once the inside of the can reaches the dewpoint temperature, you'll get condensation.
75ºF, 45% RH = 52ºF dewpoint
65ºF, 30% RH = 32ºF dewpoint
A simple desiccant pack will probably solve any problems.
Consider the case of the mil surplus copper-washed 7.62x54r produced in the Soviet Union. A lot of this stuff was produced in the 60s and 70s, and sealed away in cans without any descant. To think that these factories were climate controlled to a low humidity conditions is probably a stretch. These cans then sate who-knows-where for decades before being shipped to the US only to do the same. I've never seen these things come out of the can with any adverse signs of rust or corrosion. The copper looks a little prettier from one headstamp to another, but nothing terribly noticeable.
Simply by sealing the can, you limited the quantity of air and contaminants that can interact with the cases to cause issues. I think this solves the bulk of the problem, but it sure does beg a long-term corrosion test; time to get fill some mason jars with various cartridges.
4/29/2012 5:00:00 PM
Originally Posted By L_JE:
Here are some typical temp/humidity values for the conditioned portion of a house in summer and winter conditions.
If you filled the can in these conditions, once the inside of the can reaches the dewpoint temperature, you'll get condensation.
75ºF, 45% RH = 52ºF dewpoint
65ºF, 30% RH = 32ºF dewpoint
A simple desiccant pack will probably solve any problems.
Consider the case of the mil surplus copper-washed 7.62x54r produced in the Soviet Union. A lot of this stuff was produced in the 60s and 70s, and sealed away in cans without any descant. To think that these factories were climate controlled to a low humidity conditions is probably a stretch. These cans then sate who-knows-where for decades before being shipped to the US only to do the same. I've never seen these things come out of the can with any adverse signs of rust or corrosion. The copper looks a little prettier from one headstamp to another, but nothing terribly noticeable.
Simply by sealing the can, you limited the quantity of air and contaminants that can interact with the cases to cause issues. I think this solves the bulk of the problem, but it sure does beg a long-term corrosion test; time to get fill some mason jars with various cartridges.
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
Originally Posted By Wigglesdabum:
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
Hey guys I am curious how much of a temperature swing would create condensation on the inside of ammo cans? I am worried my ammo might be at risk being in the attic. Its not truly the attic but its a small walk in closet that isn't heated or cooled other than what gets in from the house. What do you guys think?
if it was loaded in a low humidity environment, and sealed in a ammo can, it will be fine.
to get the most correct answer you will need to know the temp/humidity when it was packed as well as the temp swings while in the closet
Here are some typical temp/humidity values for the conditioned portion of a house in summer and winter conditions.
If you filled the can in these conditions, once the inside of the can reaches the dewpoint temperature, you'll get condensation.
75ºF, 45% RH = 52ºF dewpoint
65ºF, 30% RH = 32ºF dewpoint
A simple desiccant pack will probably solve any problems.
Consider the case of the mil surplus copper-washed 7.62x54r produced in the Soviet Union. A lot of this stuff was produced in the 60s and 70s, and sealed away in cans without any descant. To think that these factories were climate controlled to a low humidity conditions is probably a stretch. These cans then sate who-knows-where for decades before being shipped to the US only to do the same. I've never seen these things come out of the can with any adverse signs of rust or corrosion. The copper looks a little prettier from one headstamp to another, but nothing terribly noticeable.
Simply by sealing the can, you limited the quantity of air and contaminants that can interact with the cases to cause issues. I think this solves the bulk of the problem, but it sure does beg a long-term corrosion test; time to get fill some mason jars with various cartridges.
Outstanding information sir. Thanks so much!
4/30/2012 8:46:24 PM
what a bunch of be
4/30/2012 9:07:25 PM
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Vacuum purge to 0.01 Torr at 150C and then backfill with nitrogen. It is the only sure way!
No, nuk'em from orbit is the only way to be sure.
