Archived Posts » 59,672,804
Federal xm855
4/8/2012 12:29:22 AM
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
4/8/2012 3:23:13 AM
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
XM855 is armour piercing ammo. It's 62 gn (green tip) ammo and in sporting guns, the ammo will likely tumble. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This Ammunition has been loaded and passed true NATO specifications. This is first run ammo that met the US Military’s strict quality assurance standards and specifications. It is packaged in a new Sealed Mil-Spec reusable ammo can with Lake City seal. Ammunition is loaded on 10-round stripper clips. Each ammo can has a steel stripper clip guide. This ammunition is loaded with green painted penetrator tip, steel core bullets and is non-corrosive, boxer-primed with fully reloadable brass cases.
This ammunition has passed Military Specification Testing and is NOT Quality Control Rejected Ammunition. This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo.
XM855 is armour piercing ammo. It's 62 gn (green tip) ammo and in sporting guns, the ammo will likely tumble. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This Ammunition has been loaded and passed true NATO specifications. This is first run ammo that met the US Military’s strict quality assurance standards and specifications. It is packaged in a new Sealed Mil-Spec reusable ammo can with Lake City seal. Ammunition is loaded on 10-round stripper clips. Each ammo can has a steel stripper clip guide. This ammunition is loaded with green painted penetrator tip, steel core bullets and is non-corrosive, boxer-primed with fully reloadable brass cases.
This ammunition has passed Military Specification Testing and is NOT Quality Control Rejected Ammunition. This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo.
4/8/2012 6:40:52 AM
Originally Posted By Pain:
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
XM855 is armour piercing ammo.. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo.
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
XM855 is armour piercing ammo.. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo.
last i heard its not armour piercing as that is banned for Joe Public in the USofA. xm193 was never duty ammo and is not currently issued for such. even m193 is not issued for duty.
i have purchased plenty of xm855 that was labled "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
better check your facts before engaging your keyboard.
4/8/2012 7:02:33 AM
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
XM855 is armour piercing ammo. It's 62 gn (green tip) ammo and in sporting guns, the ammo will likely tumble. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This Ammunition has been loaded and passed true NATO specifications. This is first run ammo that met the US Military’s strict quality assurance standards and specifications. It is packaged in a new Sealed Mil-Spec reusable ammo can with Lake City seal. Ammunition is loaded on 10-round stripper clips. Each ammo can has a steel stripper clip guide. This ammunition is loaded with green painted penetrator tip, steel core bullets and is non-corrosive, boxer-primed with fully reloadable brass cases.
This ammunition has passed Military Specification Testing and is NOT Quality Control Rejected Ammunition. This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo. quote
Re-read the post. See red highlights. What are steel core bullets used for? Punching paper??
4/8/2012 7:31:31 AM
Originally Posted By Pain:
Re-read the post. See red highlights. What are steel core bullets used for? Punching paper??
Re-read the post. See red highlights. What are steel core bullets used for? Punching paper??
i read them fine the first time. it does not change the fact you are wrong and yes xm855 main use is for punching paper...
4/8/2012 8:05:20 AM
It's not considered AP.
-JC
-JC
4/8/2012 9:42:19 AM
Originally Posted By Pain:
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
XM855 is armour piercing ammo. It's 62 gn (green tip) ammo and in sporting guns, the ammo will likely tumble. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This Ammunition has been loaded and passed true NATO specifications. This is first run ammo that met the US Military’s strict quality assurance standards and specifications. It is packaged in a new Sealed Mil-Spec reusable ammo can with Lake City seal. Ammunition is loaded on 10-round stripper clips. Each ammo can has a steel stripper clip guide. This ammunition is loaded with green painted penetrator tip, steel core bullets and is non-corrosive, boxer-primed with fully reloadable brass cases.
This ammunition has passed Military Specification Testing and is NOT Quality Control Rejected Ammunition. This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo.
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
XM855 is armour piercing ammo. It's 62 gn (green tip) ammo and in sporting guns, the ammo will likely tumble. It's ment for machine guns for military applications.
This Ammunition has been loaded and passed true NATO specifications. This is first run ammo that met the US Military’s strict quality assurance standards and specifications. It is packaged in a new Sealed Mil-Spec reusable ammo can with Lake City seal. Ammunition is loaded on 10-round stripper clips. Each ammo can has a steel stripper clip guide. This ammunition is loaded with green painted penetrator tip, steel core bullets and is non-corrosive, boxer-primed with fully reloadable brass cases.
This ammunition has passed Military Specification Testing and is NOT Quality Control Rejected Ammunition. This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
XM 193 is 55 gn ball ammo. This is normal "duty" ammo.
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
4/8/2012 9:52:20 AM
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
hee,hee,
you got to love the internut.
4/8/2012 10:21:55 AM
Hey Fellas calm down, I know what the xm855 round is, it's complete specifications, etc. My question was: is there any difference in the "not for duty use" than that of the SQMxxx serial numbered boxes. I have many boxes of the sku# batches, but just received some "Not for duty use". my Understanding is that ANY prefix X, or SQM, sku# is for civilian sales, WE DO NOT GET ANY MILITARY SURPLUS: KLINTON. is "not for duty use" the same quality as the other, I still cannot find definitive answers.
Thank you, Tim.
Thank you, Tim.
4/8/2012 10:36:09 AM
its my understanding because of the system in place at federal there is no way of knowing for sure. i would error on the side of caution. i suggest shooting some to find out then let us know. natchez has both in stock and sell the NFDU cheaper FWIW...
xm855 is not for duty use as far as i know.
xm855 is not for duty use as far as i know.
4/8/2012 1:22:29 PM
Originally Posted By AGENT691:
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Tim good question and I would like to know the answer too. I have both types and are not sure what if any difference there is...Not sure what's up with the replies too...
4/8/2012 3:24:26 PM
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Guns like Remington 700 VSSF rifles or Thompson Center guns and others run barrel twists of 1:12 compared to military guns with likely twist rates of 1:7.
This means that sporting guns have slower twist rates. These are designed for 55gn or lighter bullets.
This tumbling affect holds true with my guns and I can't shoot the green tipped ammo out of them. YRMV.
4/8/2012 3:33:30 PM
Holy shit. Must a been one great Saturday night party.
4/8/2012 3:34:10 PM
Originally Posted By ARsforlife:
its my understanding because of the system in place at federal there is no way of knowing for sure.
its my understanding because of the system in place at federal there is no way of knowing for sure.
Note: I found this description on the Palmetto State Armory site for the ammo I am talking about LC1 AC1. Just to make sure we are not talking about the Training Use Only stuff.
Quote:
Manufacturer #: XM855LC1 AC1
This Ammunition has been loaded and passed true NATO specifications. This is first run ammo that met the US Military’s strict quality assurance standards and specifications. It is packaged in a new Sealed Mil-Spec reusable ammo can with Lake City seal. Ammunition is loaded on 10-round stripper clips. Each ammo can has a steel stripper clip guide. This ammunition is loaded with green painted penetrator tip, steel core bullets and is non-corrosive, boxer-primed with fully reloadable brass cases.
This ammunition has passed Military Specification Testing and is NOT Quality Control Rejected Ammunition. This ammunition does not carry the lable "NOT FOR DUTY USE".
4/8/2012 3:51:06 PM
Could the "not for duty use" label be there because the military issue ammunition today is M855A1 ammunition which is different from the older M855 ammunition?
4/8/2012 4:12:13 PM
Originally Posted By SkipD:
Could the "not for duty use" label be there because the military issue ammunition today is M855A1 ammunition which is different from the older M855 ammunition?
Could the "not for duty use" label be there because the military issue ammunition today is M855A1 ammunition which is different from the older M855 ammunition?
Bullet construction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 (United States): 5.56×45mm 62-grain FN SS109 ball cartridge, green tip w/steel penetrator and a lead core.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 Lead Free (United States):62-grain green tip w/tungsten penetrator and a steel core. Primarily used during training in countries with strict lead disposal laws.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855A1 (United States):62-grain green tip w/19-grain steel penetrator tip and a solid copper core.
4/8/2012 4:29:16 PM
Originally Posted By Slopes-2-Shores:
It's not considered AP.
-JC
It's not considered AP.
-JC
Perhaps I used the word "armour piercing" to generally, as there is the 5.56 mm, Armor Piercing, M995 52-grain AP cartridge, which has a black cartridge tip.
Sorry for speaking too vague for some here.
Regardless, 62gn M855 was made to give it more punch at 600 meters over the basic M193 55gn ball.
So, I still consider it to be a "light" AP round. Even though officially it's not a AP round like the M995.
4/8/2012 8:02:08 PM
Originally Posted By Pain:
Guns like Remington 700 VSSF rifles or Thompson Center guns and others run barrel twists of 1:12 compared to military guns with likely twist rates of 1:7.
This means that sporting guns have slower twist rates. These are designed for 55gn or lighter bullets.
This tumbling affect holds true with my guns and I can't shoot the green tipped ammo out of them. YRMV.
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Guns like Remington 700 VSSF rifles or Thompson Center guns and others run barrel twists of 1:12 compared to military guns with likely twist rates of 1:7.
This means that sporting guns have slower twist rates. These are designed for 55gn or lighter bullets.
This tumbling affect holds true with my guns and I can't shoot the green tipped ammo out of them. YRMV.
Since most sporting rifles if not all are chambered 223rem not 5.56 nato they should not shoot m855. So tumbling is the least of your problems.
4/8/2012 8:09:35 PM
Originally Posted By zmp1006:
Since most sporting rifles if not all are chambered 223rem not 5.56 nato they should not shoot m855. So tumbling is the least of your problems.
Originally Posted By Pain:
Guns like Remington 700 VSSF rifles or Thompson Center guns and others run barrel twists of 1:12 compared to military guns with likely twist rates of 1:7.
This means that sporting guns have slower twist rates. These are designed for 55gn or lighter bullets.
This tumbling affect holds true with my guns and I can't shoot the green tipped ammo out of them. YRMV.
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Why would it just tumble out of sporting rifles? Which military uses m193? Doesn't our military use m855 in their m16s? M855 is a barrier penetrating round.
Guns like Remington 700 VSSF rifles or Thompson Center guns and others run barrel twists of 1:12 compared to military guns with likely twist rates of 1:7.
This means that sporting guns have slower twist rates. These are designed for 55gn or lighter bullets.
This tumbling affect holds true with my guns and I can't shoot the green tipped ammo out of them. YRMV.
Since most sporting rifles if not all are chambered 223rem not 5.56 nato they should not shoot m855. So tumbling is the least of your problems.
I failed to mention I'm a reloader (30 years experience) and I pulled several hundred 556 M855 green tip 62gn "penerator" bullets from M855 cartridges.
So shooting 556 ammo in 223 chambered guns won't shoot that well, or is advised.
The reloaded rounds in 223 Remington using 62gn bullets tumbled out of my 223 chambered guns with twist rates of 1:12.
YRMV.
4/8/2012 8:21:30 PM
Originally Posted By AGENT691:
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Nothing. It's their naming scheme and probably pricing..... Lake City Ammo is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get.
*Edited.. this thread has turned into a flame war..*
4/8/2012 8:26:00 PM
Here is a picture (and thread drift) of my 55gn reloads shooting Hornady FMJ bullets. These loads are very similar to XM193 5.56 nato rounds.
The 3/8 steel plate was fired at from a distance of 50 yards using my handgun. Velocity was around 2900 fps. Mind you, the plate steel was not hardened just ole steel plate found under my work bench.
The 55gn rounds went thru, but there was some blow back. This is the upper limits of 55 gn ball against a hard target.
The 3/8 steel plate was fired at from a distance of 50 yards using my handgun. Velocity was around 2900 fps. Mind you, the plate steel was not hardened just ole steel plate found under my work bench.
The 55gn rounds went thru, but there was some blow back. This is the upper limits of 55 gn ball against a hard target.
4/8/2012 8:32:54 PM
Originally Posted By Pain:
I failed to mention I'm a reloader (30 years experience) and I pulled several hundred 556 M855 green tip 62gn "penerator" bullets from M855 cartridges.
So shooting 556 ammo in 223 chambered guns won't shoot that well, or is advised.
The reloaded rounds in 223 Remington using 62gn bullets tumbled out of my 223 chambered guns with twist rates of 1:12.
YRMV.
I failed to mention I'm a reloader (30 years experience) and I pulled several hundred 556 M855 green tip 62gn "penerator" bullets from M855 cartridges.
So shooting 556 ammo in 223 chambered guns won't shoot that well, or is advised.
The reloaded rounds in 223 Remington using 62gn bullets tumbled out of my 223 chambered guns with twist rates of 1:12.
YRMV.
Pain:
Your initial post in this thread was factually so inaccurate I considered revising it. You've followed up with a few more facts since then which mostly correct the mistakes in your first post. To summarize:
M855 is NOT armor piercing. It is considered to be an enhanced penetration round, but not AP in any way.
At most distances, M193 out-penetrates M855 due to its higher velocity.
The 62gr SS109 bullet will NOT stabilize in rifles much slower than 1:9.
If your definition of "sporting rifles" is guns with 1:12, then you're probably right - M855 won't stabilize sufficiently.
Whether or not a bullet is stabilized by a particular twist rate is a combination of bullet length (primarily). You could have two 62gr bullets with one significantly longer (such as with all-copper Barnes TSX) than a conventional lead core 62gr bullet.
M855A1 is completely different in construction than M855.
4/8/2012 8:35:13 PM
Originally Posted By AGENT691:
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Don't know about particular SKUs - do you have a link to the people selling it? As far as the "not for duty use" label - as others have mentioned, it usually means it didn't pass all military acceptance testing. That doesn't necessarily mean it's unacceptable.
4/8/2012 8:47:52 PM
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Pain:
Your initial post in this thread was factually so inaccurate I considered revising it. You've followed up with a few more facts since then which mostly correct the mistakes in your first post. To summarize:
M855 is NOT armor piercing. It is considered to be an enhanced penetration round, but not AP in any way.
At most distances, M193 out-penetrates M855 due to its higher velocity.
The 62gr SS109 bullet will NOT stabilize in rifles much slower than 1:9.
If your definition of "sporting rifles" is guns with 1:12, then you're probably right - M855 won't stabilize sufficiently.
Whether or not a bullet is stabilized by a particular twist rate is a combination of bullet length (primarily). You could have two 62gr bullets with one significantly longer (such as with all-copper Barnes TSX) than a conventional lead core 62gr bullet.
M855A1 is completely different in construction than M855.
Pain:
Your initial post in this thread was factually so inaccurate I considered revising it. You've followed up with a few more facts since then which mostly correct the mistakes in your first post. To summarize:
M855 is NOT armor piercing. It is considered to be an enhanced penetration round, but not AP in any way.
At most distances, M193 out-penetrates M855 due to its higher velocity.
The 62gr SS109 bullet will NOT stabilize in rifles much slower than 1:9.
If your definition of "sporting rifles" is guns with 1:12, then you're probably right - M855 won't stabilize sufficiently.
Whether or not a bullet is stabilized by a particular twist rate is a combination of bullet length (primarily). You could have two 62gr bullets with one significantly longer (such as with all-copper Barnes TSX) than a conventional lead core 62gr bullet.
M855A1 is completely different in construction than M855.
I tried to answer the original question with too vague a response. It was off the top of my head.
I should of never used the AP term as to get everyone head spinning. It does have a steel penetrator tip, so I just called it AP. I was wrong to use this term.
You may edit my answers or delete it all if you like. I will unsubscribe from this topic.
Good night.
4/8/2012 8:54:39 PM
You're cool. Just remember that most people here will pick your stuff apart if it needs corrections.
4/9/2012 8:26:54 PM
Originally Posted By AGENT691:
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Hello. I know you've all gone around this, but I can't find any info. What's the difference between LC xm855 LC AC1 "not for duty use", and LC1 AC1 with the SMQxxx sku #?
Help a brother out.
Thanks, Tim.
Buy either round. I have shot 1000s of each and never had a problem with either. A couple of weelends ago I went through two of the 420 round cans from Palmetto. The cans were marked "not for duty use". All 840 rounds went bang and gave me no problems. I found six rounds out of 840 that had small dents in the cases just below the necks and they worked just fine in my rifle. It is good ammo.
4/9/2012 9:34:39 PM
I have found a statement about XM855 "not for duty use", I'm paraphrasing here, "The "not for duty use" marked cans were SKU'D before Federal increased the price, henceforth they changed the labeling to justify a price increase and not be held to a particular SKU lot, it is the same ammo, same factory, same Civvi specifications."
We all know that no matter what, they are NOT military overruns, they are simply civilian versions of M855 that may not have been scrutinized to the full extent, and even if they were, could not be described as: Equal to Military Specs, due to Government restriction on surplus ammo.
Lord help us with a proper explanation. You would think that Lake City is Government owned, thus no accountability, but then again why would the Government distort the truth?
Tim.
Does anyone really know the truth?
We all know that no matter what, they are NOT military overruns, they are simply civilian versions of M855 that may not have been scrutinized to the full extent, and even if they were, could not be described as: Equal to Military Specs, due to Government restriction on surplus ammo.
Lord help us with a proper explanation. You would think that Lake City is Government owned, thus no accountability, but then again why would the Government distort the truth?
Tim.
Does anyone really know the truth?
4/10/2012 4:54:26 PM
So should XM855 not be used on AR500 steel targets?
4/10/2012 6:14:32 PM
Originally Posted By vandal:
So should XM855 not be used on AR500 steel targets?
So should XM855 not be used on AR500 steel targets?
They should be fine, but I'd double check after a few rounds to be sure.
4/10/2012 7:06:27 PM
Originally Posted By vandal:
So should XM855 not be used on AR500 steel targets?
So should XM855 not be used on AR500 steel targets?
I have been shooting M855 at 500 Brinnell 3/8" targets for 6 months. I have them up at 100, 150 and 200 yards. The 100 yard plate has small divots. Probably 1500 rounds plus. No issues.
4/13/2012 12:37:50 PM
I wouldn't shoot my 855 at my ar500 targets any closer than 200 yards. At 100 they put divets on them that you can easily feel and each time take away from the life of the target. Those targets are too dang expensive to shoot steel core ammo at. That ammo was disigned to punch through miltarty style helmets at 500 yards so it's going to put a good dent in your ar500 steel at 100.
Not to mention each dent also causes there to be a greater chance of splash back or richocet so you want you steel to be completely smooth. Hell I got tired of shooting it at 100 and started loading my own rounds with frangible bullets and I shoot it at 25 yards with it barely knocking the paint off but you still get the ring of the target.
Not to mention each dent also causes there to be a greater chance of splash back or richocet so you want you steel to be completely smooth. Hell I got tired of shooting it at 100 and started loading my own rounds with frangible bullets and I shoot it at 25 yards with it barely knocking the paint off but you still get the ring of the target.
4/13/2012 4:21:43 PM
With the cost of ammo increasing and M855 being relatively hard to find, how much would you be willing to spend on 500 rds from a private sale? $200? maybe more?
4/20/2012 10:29:38 PM
IIRC 855 was merely designed to penetrate Soviet body armour (circa early 1980's) and Soviet helmets at at certain range with the 20" barrel A2 rifle. I don't recall the range. It's not an armor piercing round.
Also, the 1x7" twist was designed not for the 855 in mind, but rather to stabilize a tracer round.
Just my 2 cents...
Also, the 1x7" twist was designed not for the 855 in mind, but rather to stabilize a tracer round.
Just my 2 cents...
