AR15.Com Archives
 M995 black tip
darkpaladin1  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 12:44:10 AM EST
Can anyone school me about M995 'black tip' ammo?

Has anyone here used it?
Is it as effective as it sounds?
Is it possible to get legally as a civilian (or .mil for personal use)?
If so, where can it be found?

I have found a lot of conflicting info, and a lot of old links as to if/where it can be bought. Figured it would be better to ask those who may have already been down that road.
Sorry if it's been covered before, my search-fu is weak.
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CAC01  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 3:39:57 AM EST
ILLEGAL

What more needs to be said?
darkpaladin1  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 4:04:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By CAC01:
ILLEGAL

What more needs to be said?


I would debate this statement with the fact that I have seen in multiple locations and multiple times 30 cal and 50 cal AP and API rounds (fully functional) and bullets (bullet only) for sale publicly. By publicly I mean in front of hundreds of other customers which included police and military folk. Im simply trying to clear some confusion so as to not risk doing anything illegal, and if they can be had legally see if I can find some.
Wipeout  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 4:17:28 AM EST
AP rounds are only illegal in "pistol calibers". Back in the day Oly Arms made an AR pistol, which got all 5.56 "AP" ammo on a banned list. .30 and .50 cal is not technically a "handgun round"
Eric802  [Moderator]
6/3/2011 4:31:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By darkpaladin1:
Originally Posted By CAC01:
ILLEGAL

What more needs to be said?


I would debate this statement with the fact that I have seen in multiple locations and multiple times 30 cal and 50 cal AP and API rounds (fully functional) and bullets (bullet only) for sale publicly. By publicly I mean in front of hundreds of other customers which included police and military folk. Im simply trying to clear some confusion so as to not risk doing anything illegal, and if they can be had legally see if I can find some.


Debate it all you want, but you might want to brush up on the statutes before you do so. The poster above me is correct.

My understanding is that you simply will not find any in civilian hands, and even in the military it's pretty hard for the average joe to come by.
darkpaladin1  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 5:37:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
AP rounds are only illegal in "pistol calibers". Back in the day Oly Arms made an AR pistol, which got all 5.56 "AP" ammo on a banned list. .30 and .50 cal is not technically a "handgun round"


Ah, this would explain a lot. Also explains why they mention M855 specifically being exempt. Thanks for the informative feedback.
fuzzy03cls  [Member]
6/3/2011 6:12:31 AM EST
And if you did find some for sale it wouldn't be cheap. Probably $3-$4/round.

There were scamers on gunbroker selling black tip painted 5.56. But this was M855 with black paint.
FMJ  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 7:14:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By darkpaladin1:
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
AP rounds are only illegal in "pistol calibers". Back in the day Oly Arms made an AR pistol, which got all 5.56 "AP" ammo on a banned list. .30 and .50 cal is not technically a "handgun round"


Ah, this would explain a lot. Also explains why they mention M855 specifically being exempt. Thanks for the informative feedback.


M855 isnt AP
M855 = Ball /FMJ w/ a 10.5 gr mild steel insert
wolfganggross  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 11:11:22 AM EST





This is the M993, the 7.62x51 version of the M995. Back in 1994, the Gun Control Act was started and part of it was to control armour piercing ammo with importantion, manufacturing, etc. In 1992 the Soldier Enhancement Program started testing M993 and a few had enetered this country from Sweden before the ban on AP ammo took place. In 1996-97 the M995 started testing which is after this ban. It states that any AP ammo imported, made, etc after 1994 can only be sold to law enforcement, military or for testing only. Thats why you see some M993, but not the M995. The M993 sells for $30 EACH! Would love to see what the M995 would sell for. Had lots of trouble cutting this one, core is so hard I couldn't even scratch it!
Not to get picky, but M855 has a medium hardened steel penetrator at rockwell C hardness of 45 (vickers 460), big difference from mild steel which is 30 or lower. M43 7.62x39 has rockwell C 35, M2 30.06 has rockwell C 61 (Vickers 785), M993 has Vickers 1450 hardness( off of the rockwell scale). wolfgang

99merckx  [Member]
6/3/2011 11:36:29 AM EST
thanks for the pics, wolfganggross. allways informative.
leid  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 2:52:49 PM EST
The Swedish tungsten penetrator AP cartridges that were type classified by DOD in 1996 as M993/M995 have been around for a VERY long time. Many of these early Swedish AP cartridges, including the ones below, were lawfully imported into the U.S. prior to Klinton's misguided 1994 "armor piercing ammunition" import restrictions with the earliest I have seen so far manufactured in 1969. The earliest documented U.S. DOD use of Swedish 5.56MM/7.62MM AP cartridges I have seen so far is in 1991: lot FFV91C001L001 linked (4) FFV AP cartridges to (1) LC M62 Tracer cartridge.


T18B40  [Member]
6/3/2011 5:53:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
AP rounds are only illegal in "pistol calibers". Back in the day Oly Arms made an AR pistol, which got all 5.56 "AP" ammo on a banned list. .30 and .50 cal is not technically a "handgun round"


The wpn you are talking about here was in caliber 7.62x39, which I think was called the OA-93 or something like that. Effectively banned the steel cored -39 ammo from being imported into the country forever unless somebody revokes the ban, which probably won't happen. I know some friends who were in AFG and Iraq, who had been issued some of the M995 for the SAW and they used it at checkpoints for disabling vehicles and such. In my opinion, AP is overkill for human targets unless they are wearing protective vest, which some of the taliban are doing. It's great for a vehicle stopper or barrier penetrator though, based on the info that my friends told me about. Just some info to muddy up the waters somewhat!

Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 6:21:37 PM EST
Doc Roberts likes it. 995 will punch an ESAPI apparently.
Cpatterson  [Team Member]
6/3/2011 9:19:09 PM EST
thats what all my belts were in Afghanistan for the M249 i gave the 855 belts to other gunners
carothers22  [Member]
6/4/2011 5:10:15 PM EST
Nice pictures and great info.
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