AR15.Com Archives
 Commercial ban coming on .223/5.56?
Venerated  [Team Member]
10/25/2002 4:49:45 PM
Do you guys think this is likely? I don't but I'm holding on to what I have from Ammoman just the same. Specifically 2K rounds of Q3131A and 1k of Lake City. These days you just never know what crazy legislation is going to be put forth and I can see a ban on certain types of ammo passing easier than a ban on certain types of weapons. Or, perhaps they'll add a provision banning this type of ammo to the AW ban when it's taken up again in the House.
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20iner  [Member]
10/25/2002 8:24:47 PM
Even though that was pretty unlikely, I wouild say just shoot it and save the brass. Then reload, unless they also ban .223/5.56 projectiles.
Troy  [Site Staff]
10/25/2002 8:47:11 PM
It's pretty unlikely that they'd have a total ban on a single caliber, especially when similar ammo and components could be used. There are FAR too many HUNTERS and RANCHERS who have Mini-14s to get away with it.

BUT, I can easily see it being harder to get M193 and/or M855 spec ammo, especially if we learn that's what the killer was using.

-Troy
ammoman  [Industry Partner]
10/25/2002 8:53:32 PM
I agree with Troy.
I don't see any sort of ban, but just from the fact that demand for 223 from us has gone up 300%
Eric the ammoman
ECS  [Member]
10/25/2002 10:08:39 PM
I don't think there will be a ban on 223 ammo either. I was worried the politicians might try something with the AR15 type rifles, but tonite the local spin on the AR15 was that its hardly ever used in crimes (handguns are), rather expensive (doesn't equate to Saturday nite special), used for target shooting (read NRA membership), etc.....ECS
coltcarbine  [Team Member]
10/25/2002 10:24:22 PM
i don't know about the ammo, but, i would almost bet money that some friggin genuis anti-gun politician thought or said,

"see, that loop hole in the original assualt weapons ban is what did this"!
"if we can only ban these so called 'postban' weapons then there will be no more crimes like this!"

look for more proposed gun restrictive legislation coming your way soon.

coltc.
bushwaky  [Member]
10/25/2002 11:31:38 PM
The antigun crowd would have to ban all rifles (except maybe .22LR) to prevent snipers like this guy. I don't see anything about .223 that makes it better for nutcase snipers. It's just what this guy had. I doubt any police/military snipers would even use .223. If your only going to fire once use something that will knock down a grizzly.

I don't see any way that infringing on our rights could have prevented this.
greenmountainpatriot  [Member]
10/26/2002 8:11:25 AM
Naw....no ban.
Have you seen some of the polls floating around? To the suprise of the Libs more people seem to be leaning pro-gun/pro-ownership after this murder spree in Maryland!
Bigdude  [Member]
10/26/2002 8:52:06 AM
No ban is likely, polls show people are tired of gun control, people feel safer when they can buy weapons. This is partly a result of 9-11.
TomJefferson  [Team Member]
10/26/2002 9:46:29 AM
If they do, does that mean they will come get my thousands of rounds????????????

Better run out and buy more I reckon!

After all the comment from the newslady on CNN was "Well at least we got the weapon off the street." I felt a little inadequate since I was happy they got the murderer!
ECS  [Member]
10/26/2002 9:50:40 AM

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
After all the comment from the newslady on CNN was "Well at least we got the weapon off the street."



Yea, this is typical left wing thinking...namely its not the person, its the instrument they use that is evil.

After all society made the killer into what he is...
PigPen  [Member]
10/26/2002 11:13:17 AM

Yea, this is typical left wing thinking...namely its not the person, its the instrument they use that is evil.

After all society made the killer into what he is...



Well, as fun as it is to say this (and I am as guilty as the next person), I think what they actually think is that they are intellectually superior and function from a superior moral perspective. Therefore it follows (in their minds) that most of us cannot be trusted with firearms. It is somewhat ironic, in my view at least, that this same sanctimonious notion of superiority has created a society of dependent individuals whose rising expectations cannot be fulfilled. Disillusioned and feeling mistreated and resentful, those who are weak of character, become social outcasts willing to do anything to be center stage and gain attention.....even snipers who are certain to be caught!!

IOW, it is those liberals who cry the loudest who are the root of the problem.

At least that's my feeling.

PigPen
PigPen  [Member]
10/26/2002 11:28:40 AM
I'm not so sure about things to come. Through out the saga as it played out on TV, I thought my prediction of several years might have finally come true. For several years, as the antis have assailed handguns, I have told friends, just wait until they find out what can be done with rifles. Now I might add, bullets. As I listened to "experts" describe the fragmenting ".223" bullet as the reason for it's one shot effectiveness, I immediately thought of what might happen next.......An assault on .223 ammunition!! Remember, these are not gun culture folks and cannot be expected to react with the same logic that we would. These people don't know anything about firearms. They probably don't know that a .308 caliber exist. If they do, they do not know what to expect from it. They have repeatedly described the rifle and caliber as:


I will be frank; I am a little worried that their next round of attacks will include 5.56MM ammo in general and M193/M855 in particular (if they can get it together enough to figure it out).

PigPen
bushwaky  [Member]
10/26/2002 1:30:33 PM
What concerns me most is the idea of a ballastic database. I'm skeptical that something like this would actually work, but the media seems take this ballastics info seriously. They have stated something like 11 of the shootings were linked ballastically to that gun. Really? I'd like to learn more.
357sigfan  [Member]
10/26/2002 9:28:57 PM
bushwaky - Their idea for a ballistic database more than likley won't work... look at New York and Maryland... They have thousands of test rounds and not one has solved a crime. over time, the barrel and chamber wear, and the fingerprint changes, or one could change the barrel. Either way, thier sample would be useless.

However, in this case it will work because all of the rounds where fired from the same gun, one right after the other, so there was little, if any change to the rifling marks on the bullets. Because of that, when they recovered the weapon, test fired it, and compared the bullet they just fired with the bullets they recovered from the victims bodies, they got a match.

Hope this helps (And hope I'm right)
LoginName  [Team Member]
10/26/2002 9:40:39 PM
I find a total ban unlikely even among the more rabid gun-grabbers. Right now they're too busy pitching their ballistics database.
What is possible is a ban on imported ammo; no more SA battle packs, Wolf, Swiss, Israeli... etc.
Big-Bore  [Member]
10/27/2002 12:23:22 AM
coltcarbine;

They have already said that. I heard, I think it was Jennings, say that Bushmaster had twarted the intent of the 94 Crime Bill by skirting the law and continuing to manufacture "assault rifles" even though they were supposed to be banned. Here we go again...

I won't be surprised at anything those S.O.B.s try.
Kyarguy  [Member]
10/27/2002 1:22:39 AM
No it's not likely...

If it was they would have banned calibers like the 30-06 because that is what James Earl Ray used to shoot Martin Luther King...
...the 6.5 Italian Carcano(Oswald and Kennedy)
...the calibers that Charles Whitman used....
and so on and so forth. Paranoia tends to rule peoples better judgement in matters like this.
Shoot your guns, use your ammo, and have fun...

...and believe it or not, the sun will rise tomorrow just as it has daily on planet earth for the past 4.5 BILLION years...

KyARGuy
ProfGAB101  [Team Member]
10/27/2002 1:40:42 AM
Popup wiped my post, starting again (very pissed!)
ProfGAB101  [Team Member]
10/27/2002 1:44:03 AM
Here is I what I expect to see proposed - or attempt to amend into other legislation.
  • (Insane) Ammo taxes - this has been tried before and failed, they will keep trying it.
  • One gun a month - no reason except maybe they will claim there NICS system is overworked.

  • Safe Storage laws.
  • Arsenal Laws - Limits to the Quantity of ammo or guns.

  • Gunshow laws
  • NICS/4473 on private sales.
  • Ban on sales of any Hi-cap Mag
  • Complete re-write of the prior AWB to eliminate all mythical loopholes - such as a ban on any weapon capable of using parts which fit any existing AR design.

  • Ballistic (Snapshot) Fingerprint data base. - This is the one we must fight and must not lose. Once they have a database established all it takes is a little change or a new bill to require all firearms to be included.


  • I am not being an alarmist, I think all of these will get proposed or an attempt to attach of add as a amendment or rider to other bills. I also think that if we GET OFF OUR COLLECTIVE ASSES RIGHT NOW, and make a MAJOR PUSH for the upcoming elections to be sure that we will have a SENATE that will work in OUR FAVOR!

    [soap box] Enough shouting, time to get to work. [/soap box]
    LoginName  [Team Member]
    10/27/2002 10:26:11 AM

    Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:
    Here is I what I expect to see proposed - or attempt to amend into other legislation.
  • (Insane) Ammo taxes - this has been tried before and failed, they will keep trying it.
  • One gun a month - no reason except maybe they will claim there NICS system is overworked.

  • Safe Storage laws.
  • Arsenal Laws - Limits to the Quantity of ammo or guns.

  • Gunshow laws
  • NICS/4473 on private sales.
  • Ban on sales of any Hi-cap Mag
  • Complete re-write of the prior AWB to eliminate all mythical loopholes - such as a ban on any weapon capable of using parts which fit any existing AR design.

  • Ballistic (Snapshot) Fingerprint data base. - This is the one we must fight and must not lose. Once they have a database established all it takes is a little change or a new bill to require all firearms to be included.




  • ... Ban on .50 cal rifles (proposed last session)

    ... No mail order ammo sales (proposed last session)



    RyanAR15  [Member]
    10/29/2002 8:40:30 AM

    Originally Posted By Troy:
    It's pretty unlikely that they'd have a total ban on a single caliber, especially when similar ammo and components could be used. There are FAR too many HUNTERS and RANCHERS who have Mini-14s to get away with it.

    BUT, I can easily see it being harder to get M193 and/or M855 spec ammo, especially if we learn that's what the killer was using.

    -Troy



    Crap.

    You mean to tell me that now that I'm a rancher, I bought the wrong rifle? That a AR-15 carbine won't work?

    Crap crap crap crap...

    Gonna have to take my 5R rifle and sell it to someone for a Mini-14.
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