Why everyone needs an 20 inch A2 in their arsenal...

Sights don't come off

Forces the user to KISS

Long sight radius

Most reliable form of the AR15 platform

No extractor o-rings necessary

Smooth recoil, low recoil

You can stock em deep... they are on discount right now.

Buffer discussion has *nothing* to do with weight or special buffers

You don't have to purchase 77grain sierra match king to get reliable fragmentation

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I think that, when all else fails, you should always bring a 20 A2 to any shoot or event. When things go wrong with your HSLD carbine, the A2 will always be ready for you and will give you all the capabilities you need to maintain a basic level of competitiveness.

Im digging my 20s and digging my A2 allot right now.

Roger that, I have a 20 inch flat top and just keep a detatchable carry handle on it.

Why does it force the user to KISS? Still plenty of ways to mount a light and optic.

[EDIT] Built a 20" A2 recently from a FN upper from OOW. I need to build some arms strength but it's sweet.

Sometimes plain Jane makes for a good Prom date.

I so miss my A2... I've got my eye on a Sabre Defense A4 locally. I will probably join the cool kids again by the end of the month.

My A2 is a cobbled together DPMS kit lower with a High Standard upper and some crap ass MP bolt.

It is the best shooting AR I have, smooth as butter and I can make hits all day long.

If the ballon ever went up you would see many A2 20" rifles come out of the woodwork I think.

stag arms A2 here.. I took the carry handle off but keep it close. Now I run a 1-4x scope on it.

I love the A2. DCM models shoot the best because of the floating barrel.

I have a garbage built 20"

20" 1/7 high standard barrel
Recently replaced a Mega flattop upper with a Colt A2 upper
Bushmaster BCG
DPMS LPK
OD green A2 furniture

It's my "goto" rifle that I take out every time I go into the woods.

I haven't shot my mall ninja carbine in over a year.

My "Go To" A2 - Built it as a FN clone, but it ends up as the first to grab on range days. It just feels right in my hands.

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That's why I got two of them!
FN upper. McKay lower clone


Colt MT6601 with Colt A2 barrel assembly

Just finished up something quite similar from a hodge-podge of parts.....By all means a true frankengun.

Oly lower
Bushmaster upper
model 1 charging handle
RRA bolt carrier group
Armalite barrel milled with flats
Unknown FSB with set screws
"donated" A2 handguard
Mil surplus A1 stock
YHM muzzle brake

Really do not think this thing has two major components from the same mfg.

Just waiting for the Aluma-hyde to cure a couple more days before I see the end results.

Cant beat em. And they take me back. I shoot this one quite a bit. Nothin fancy govt bbl crappy military trigger but she is a champ

Ditto, although sometimes an ACOG spends some time on mine as well. The A3 with carry handle is a great base platform, and always allows you to go KISS.

Love the balance and the no frills, function over form look. It just feels RIGHT.

Next project: slab side A1 type lightweight.

I would agree with the A2 is perfect, but even when I was in the Army, I never adjusted the elevation dial in live fire.

A2 barrel, rear sight aperture, handguards and stock. A1 flash hider and upper reciever.

I've got the same thing, but with an A1 barrel and hand guards. My friends joke about it being the "A1&1/2", but damn it shoots great!

I've been w/o an A2 for a long time. I plan to build one soon. Just made an offer on a sweet FN upper now I am in the hunt for a nice FN bbl. It is the rifle I carried in the Corps and learned to shoot. I may end up using an A1 stock. I just bought a pair of Charles Daly stripped lowers fo $50 each! One will become my A2 lower. 2 DD Parts kits just arrived.

I forgot I will need to add an old M7 bayonet.

I agree.
I have a flat-top Colt MT6700, and it is the smoothest shooting AR I own. I'm a 'irons' guy, and I love the longer sight radius.
I keep my eyes open for screaming deals on the Colt MT6601's, as I'd love to have an A2 platform in my collection.

Holy Moly!

Took my recently assembled A2 out yesterday and test fired it. Put about 70 rounds down range and the rifle performed smooth and flawlessly. What a great rifle!

First off . . . over the years though having owned a couple of dozen AR15 type rifles, I never took one apart or had an idea of how the things went together. Most of those ARs were the SP or A1 types which in comparison to the much improved A2, seemed flimsy and provided little confidence. The AR15A2 / M16A2 is a no nonsense robust battle rifle that can also serve as a bayonet platform if desired.

Awhile back I picked up a complete DPMS lower receiver while gathered the rest of the parts here and there. The complete upper assembly, including Bolt carrier group and 1/7 barrel is all FN M16A2. Buttstock is from a COLT A2.

The exercise was actually an easy and fun learning experience. Was a little surprised that when first fired, the rifle didn't explode or fall to pieces. Somehow, the monkey with ten thumbs must have assembled that A2 correctly.

It pains me to admit now, but this Fabrique Nationale quasi M16A2 has bumped the M1 Garand rifles down in the arsenal to second class reserve status. Plans are to acquire another AR lower receiver and start a second build. Perhaps some more of those well worn COLT M16A2 upper assemblies will show up again on the EXCHANGE board. In thinking about it, it might be good to own a salty old war horse of an A2 military rifle too.

You'll get no argument to the contrary from me.....

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You'll get no argument to the contrary from me.....

My first AR, bought during the AWB. Only things I have done or to thread barrel and add birdcage and change to a Hogue grip.

I just got back from the range with my A2, Favorite rifle hands down.

I'm a fan of the 20in A2, was out shooting it on saturday afternoon actually

A 20" was my first AR15. I

Should have my first one since basic, in a day or two. Been more than a decade. More than excited

Kolben A2 Gewehr


My A2 build with a Osprey Piston Hiding underneath
I would have standard A2 Handguards on it but Osprey does not offer them in O.D. Green
I Really like the M9 Bayonet
It is a shame you cant put it on a Mall Ninja Gun
It shoots as good as it looks
Hank

My A2 was my first AR, and to me it's the ultimate classic AR. Everything else is a variation on the theme.

It's straight A2 except it has a Bushmaster National Match profile heavy barrel, a full 1" diameter under the handguards. So it's fairly heavy.

But as a shooter? Tack driver. I've turned in 5 shot one hole groups with it if I do my part. (And scoped.) It's as reliable as the magazine
you use with it. In fact, I test magazines with this rifle. If there's a jam, that mag is no good. It's a simple pass/fail test.

It's also one I built on a lower receiver that I machined from a 0 percent forging. So it has a special quality to it that no other rifle of mine has,
in that it's been more than just ASSEMBLED by me. Actually making some of the parts (the most important one) really makes it special.


CJ

Armalite and RRA sell A2 handguards in OD Green for pretty cheap

Love my A2. I had a HB reprofiled to Government profile. It is the go-to rifle around here.

Cant get much better than an A2 with a good tactical sling. If you want to get fancy throw an TA01 on top and call it a day.

Here - here!!!!!...Let's hear it for the A2!!!....<><....:)

How is that Osprey Piston set up working? I prefer the A2/A1 type rifles over the "tacticool" rifles myself. But, I am intrigued by the piston system and thought of adding KISS A1/A2 type to my collection. I think your rifle is pretty sweet actually.

ATTENTION!!!

Crucial AR15A2 / M16A2 rifle information about to be released!

Our crack team of scientists (and these guys really do smoke a lot of crack) here at Mugwump Labs have finally concluded their intense research. This concerns specific spurious myths regarding the standard full-length 20" barreled AR15A2 / M16A2 being too long, cumbersome and otherwise obsolete for home defense and general SHTF applications.

Data with conclusive photos will soon follow.

Thank you!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Scientific Report from Mugwump Labs

Outline:

Below please find Exhibit #1 with that being a photo of three (3) classic American long arms

From left to right:

A.) Remington 870 pump12 gauge shotgun with 18” official riot gun configuration cop cylinder bore barrel.

B.) FN M16A2 (clone) 5.56 NATO standard full length rifle with 20” barrel.

C.) Marlin 336 lever-action carbine in .35 Rem caliber.

Both the Remington 870 riot gun and Marlin 336 carbine are commonly considered to be excellent as household defensive arms being that they are nimble, easy to maneuver short weapons. The full length, hard hitting, fast loading, semi-automatic A2 rifle is generally rejected however by the usual suspect shopping mall commando crowd. These misguided souls offhandedly figure that the 20-inch AR rifle is too long and cumbersome for use against Marauding Mobs, SHTF chaos and Zombie Attacks among other bread n' butter home defense chores.

We men of science here at Mugwump Labs offer the proof positive photograph below. As can be plainly seen, all three weapons are almost the same length from butt stock to the end of the barrel. We also state categorically that this is conclusive documentation that these constant rebukes and insults towards the great standard 20-inch barrel AR rifle is merely ignorant rhetoric spouted by miscreants and carried forth by other simple minded clods. The howling unwashed masses of slobs probably believe that a standard length AR rifle is a clunky obsolete tomato stake being too long for practical use. The fools!

In conclusion: If the flash hider on a standard 20-inch A2 rifle were removed, the weapon would in the overall be actually shorter than both the Remington 870 riot shotgun and Marlin 336 carbine.

We rest our case . . .

Your premise fails.

I do not consider any one of those three to be ideal or preferable for HD use (CQB).

All three can and could be used in a pinch, and many do, but all three are too long / too limited in effectiveness. The M16A2 / 20" AR15 is the best of the bunch, but still far from ideal.

If you can get better, why wouldn't you?

This topic and topics along this vein have been hashed over and hashed over time and time again.

If you like it, cool. Don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't better options, though.

~Augee

Your premise fails.

The premise of the men of science from Mugwump Labs is perfect and unimpeachable!

That issue was not Home Defense (so-called) but the length of each popular weapon in relationship to the other.

That 12-gauge Remington 870 rat shotgun is the downstairs closet arm, an Ithaca Model 37 is the master bedroom riot gun along with a stashed model 1911 forty-five and another Remington 870 former police gun is put away in the den. An old cop S&W 38 wheel gun is hidden under the sink in the kitchen. There are weapons placed strategically throughout this house.

This was done after my being here alone intently working one cold night when persons unknown tried to break in. Heard the noise upstairs at the backdoor on the deck. Realized then that there were no weapons here downstairs and needed to go upstairs to the central stash. Bad planning! Now, there is always a weapon within a few feet away.

Around here there is non of this flashlights mounted on mall ninja style AR15 carbines used to "clear the house". How stupid is that scheme?




Then too . . . Your not one of the kumbaya hippie people as seen on the weird Preppers TV show are you? Their plan of defense it to give away food and smoke weed with the home invading marauding thugs. Then the criminal scum are given jars of natural honey by the Doris Day of Doom.

[quote]Originally Posted By winnisimmet:
ATTENTION!!!

Crucial AR15A2 / M16A2 rifle information about to be released!

We rest our case . . .


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Put a collapsible stock on it like the Canadians and you'll have 'em beat for length.

Put a collapsible stock on it like the Canadians and you'll have 'em beat for length.

Yeah! Yeah! Please tell me more on the Canadian thing with collapsible stock.

Just purchased an assembly with M16A1 C7 Canadian style upper having a 20" COLT pencil barrel attached. Wanted this one as it's lighter than the A2 and better for my wife to manage. Was looking for a picture of a Canadian 20" M16 rifle with collapsible stock.

What type of stock is recommended? Three position retro 1960s military?

Double

You are missing the point. My point being that I do consider all three to be excessively long for use in close quarters scenarios, at least if I had a choice. I have been issued M16A2s before and had to perform CQB drills with them - and I've done the same with M4 Carbines. The carbine length configuration, is in my opinion, far superior for that type of work. Since anything in the home, regardless of your "home defense" strategy could very fairly be considered "close quarters battle," I see no advantages to a longer, 20" barreled, fixed stock rifle for this type of work.

Your premise fails because I do not agree that either the shotgun or the lever-gun is ideal, either from a capabilities or length perspective - therefore, comparisons of the M16A2 to them are built on a logical fallacy that someone would agree that either of those are a suitable alternative.

Please feel free to give reasons why you believe that the M16A2 is better suited for your home, or any other kind of CQB than say - an RO727 clone? Fixed carry handle, no lights, same plastic handguards, collapsible stock. Why - if I had that option, would I choose to utilize an M16A2 clone for that role?

Please do so without resorting GD-style name calling as well.

There is an 18 page thread further on in this forum about the whether or not the A2 is obsolete - please read it through, it might be very illuminating for you, regardless of what you ultimately decide.

The current issue CANFOR C7A2 20" rifle uses a four position receiver extension with a textured "CAR"-style collapsible butt stock. Colt carbines from the 1960s/70s were issued with two position receiver extensions - three position receiver extensions were user/unit level modified two position assembles. Some early commercial receiver extensions also had three positions.

If you decide to go with a collapsible stock assembly on a full length rifle, I would suggest using an H3 or heavier buffer if you can find one. USGI M16A2s with collapsible stock assemblies use an "H6" buffer that I have not yet seen available for civilian sale. Another alternative would be the Vltor A5 receiver extension.

~Augee

He never said that. He simply pointed out that the 20" AR is no longer than two other guns frequently recommended for home defense and, compared to those two guns, the 20" AR is more effective. You're changing the argument.

Some discussion on the topic of buffers.

Sold mine, haven't missed it one bit.

This is the premise that falls short in my opinion. I said so - he responded with "we aint got no mall-ninja flashlight wearing carbines here," so I asked then "why not a non-flashlight wearing carbine instead of a rifle?"

~Augee

pbckt.com/pH.NoFplN

Been through it all with this. I Sometimes I carried something else, but mostly I carried her with me. Sorry for the poor pic. I have a few ARs now one is a 22 in. varminter the rest are 16, and 18. This pic was taken at Camp Fallujah after Phantom Fury and I so wish I could have somehow paid the Marines to take it home with me. It was a KAC M16a4?

We can purpose an AR15 for any specialized role.

SBRs can be excellent CQB weapons

DMR style builds can work ranges with precision

ECT ECT

Its all a compromise of the basic design. From a civilian perspective a 20 inch rifle be it A2 or Flat top makes more sense than any carbine. 20 inch builds are do it all rifles yet still retain the status of being excellent intermediate range weapons.

Longevity of service, excellent shooting characteristics, less prone to malfunction, higher velocity with any ammo combination, and long sight radius.

These characteristics sound like winners to me.

My first EBR was a Colt 6600 HBAR. Still got it. Needs a trip to the range.

Why don't you have a light on your HD firearm? How can you hold a handheld light while manipulating your long gun?

I would love to have a fixed carry handle 20" rifle some day. That said are people really finding 16" rifles to be that unreliable? I've had mine since 2008 and the only problem I had with it was a 20 round mag that would let it try to feed the last two rounds in the mag everytime.




You can put a bayonet on a mid length.

Because everyone knows bad guys run screaming as soon as they hear the "ka-chunk" of an 870 or "click-clack" of a lever gun.

Duh.



I have three 20" rifles in my collection, two iron sights only - an A1 (XM16E1), an A2, and an A4. I love the crap out of every single one of them - so I agree with your premise. Everyone one needs not just "one," but "one of each" 20" rifles in their collection.

~Augee

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