Archived Posts » 59,821,464
Bushmaster ACR 1595
3/3/2012 6:29:30 PM
Found a new black bush ACR base model for 1595 today but Iam still thinking about it . Are they good to go /
3/3/2012 6:33:51 PM
I bought one in 2010, put 2Krds through it and it was flawless.
3/3/2012 6:44:41 PM
I don't know how you feel about used rifles...but you may be able to pick one up that has a few upgrades to go along with it for about 1,500 buck on ACRForum. Check it out. As far as the rifle goes...I absolutely love mine. You will enjoy it!!!
3/3/2012 8:32:59 PM
Not a bad price but not great either.
I got my basic slightly used (30 rounds fired) for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. I had no intentions of buying one right then and there but the deal was too good to pass on. I was lucky to find it for that price, so a NIB one for the price you mentioned isn't bad.
I got my basic slightly used (30 rounds fired) for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. I had no intentions of buying one right then and there but the deal was too good to pass on. I was lucky to find it for that price, so a NIB one for the price you mentioned isn't bad.
3/3/2012 9:27:53 PM
Other than it having a heavy ass 1x9 barrel with a useless M203 notch, I guess its good to go...
I really wanted a ACR, but until they release one with a LW 1x7 I will just stick with my SCAR 16s
I really wanted a ACR, but until they release one with a LW 1x7 I will just stick with my SCAR 16s
3/3/2012 10:54:00 PM
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
3/3/2012 11:10:09 PM
Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
I have never seen one offered with anything other than the 1x9 M4 Style barrel, I also do not see this on the website
Link?
3/4/2012 12:16:48 AM
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:
I have never seen one offered with anything other than the 1x9 M4 Style barrel, I also do not see this on the website
Link?
Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
I have never seen one offered with anything other than the 1x9 M4 Style barrel, I also do not see this on the website
Link?
Not seeing that anywhere. I do see on the versatility tab the different length barrel options, maybe thats what he is referring to?
3/4/2012 8:42:04 AM
Originally Posted By mtforlife:
Not seeing that anywhere. I do see on the versatility tab the different length barrel options, maybe thats what he is referring to?
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:
I have never seen one offered with anything other than the 1x9 M4 Style barrel, I also do not see this on the website
Link?
Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
Sounds like a decent deal. According to their website it looks like you can now get it with LW barrel and no M203 notch. I haven't confirmed that its a reality but that's what the site shows anyway. lol!
I have never seen one offered with anything other than the 1x9 M4 Style barrel, I also do not see this on the website
Link?
Not seeing that anywhere. I do see on the versatility tab the different length barrel options, maybe thats what he is referring to?
Yes, that was I was referring too. Under the configurations option tab it shows the 3 barrel lengths and the 16" looks to be LW minus the M203 cut. But it's possible they just posted the pic and aren't offering it yet.
I was hearing some time ago that you could get your rifles in 1/7 if you requested it that way. Maybe same for different profile too? I'm sure the common off the shelf config is likely the same heavy 1/9 with cut though. I'm like Merc on this one and will pass till I can get the "correct" config for now. I mean heck, even Ruger has been changing their piston AR every few months to satisfy customer feedback.
3/4/2012 10:46:28 AM
sorry...but the ACR took a nose dive when Bushmaster was attached to it. i wish Remington would release their version.
3/4/2012 11:55:27 AM
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
3/4/2012 11:59:45 AM
Originally Posted By NissanGuy08:
sorry...but the ACR took a nose dive when Bushmaster was attached to it. i wish Remington would release their version.
sorry...but the ACR took a nose dive when Bushmaster was attached to it. i wish Remington would release their version.
I would love to know what you are referring to when you say "took a nose dive"....are you referring to the popularity or the function of the rifle itself? Because if it is popularity, then yes..It may not be the most sought after, anticipated rifle on the market anymore, but if you are referring to its functionality then you are greatly mistaken. And I can attest to that because I own one and have firsthand experience, not just something I read on a board somewhere.
And what about Bushmaster? Yeah they may have crappy customer service, and yes there are better rifles out there, but who cares...I have never had a single problem with any bushmaster. I want to buy a gun that functions properly, not because the sweet sounding little customer rep on the other end of the phone was nice to me. The crazy thing is that the people that own them will agree with what I am saying.
3/5/2012 8:35:59 AM
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
3/5/2012 8:44:06 AM
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one)
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade)
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too)
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too)
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
3/5/2012 8:45:56 AM
I'm about to get out from under mine. Parts availability sucks, and so does Bushmaster CS. I've broken the collar locking thingy on the barrel, because it's made out of cheap pot metal, and Bushy wants the entire barrel back to fix it. They won't just sell me the part. I'm going to trade it out for an NGA X8, I think.
3/5/2012 9:49:40 AM
Way too much for as many problems as you probably will have. Check out the Larue Predator for that much. They really stand behind all their products, and I can't say enough good things about them. They have a limited offer coming up that's a Hybrid rifle , somewhere between the Predator and OBR.
3/5/2012 8:34:03 PM
How long did it take the AR to come of age? Give Remington a chance to ramp up, support is coming.
3/5/2012 8:51:58 PM
I am happy with mine. Got it in a trade. No problems. Shoots great and love the ergonomics. Would like a 14.5 LW barrel though.
3/5/2012 11:53:05 PM
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR. Are you serious.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.Not true. Bushmaster is offering parts there just slow to ramp up, check there catalog. Not to mention the aftermarket is just catching on.The AR would be nothing without the aftermarket suppliers.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR. Keep reading.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one) Your kidding right, it's huge. And you can pop off the barrel and clean it with ease
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade) I agree.
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too) Not true you need a special separate pre calibrated wrench, the ACR's wrench is affixed to the barrel.
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too) It's a DI weapon why would you need it?
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR. No not at all.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded. A true statement but it is still a warm over of an outdated platform on it's way to retirement. And as far as piston conversions go, the AR was never designed to be one, that's why so many have carrier tilt issues. Not to mention the ACR has a free floated barrel, monolithic top rail and has no need for a buffer tube, (a huge weakness of the AR) did I mention the ACR has a side folding stock and has the capability of switching not only barrel lengths but calibers from 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 and 6.8 in the field to adapt to any mission any time anywhere. I know the manufacture has been slow to get up to speed on this but if you look on Bushmasters web sight the conversion kits are listed, and others have started to produce them on there own. Like I said give it a bit of time, it is exactly what Magpul promised.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
Why bother investing in the past. I like old TV's but I'm not trading in my flat screen for one just because I can put tinfoil on the rabbit ears and get a bit of better reception.Originally Posted By Undertaker:
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR. Are you serious.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.Not true. Bushmaster is offering parts there just slow to ramp up, check there catalog. Not to mention the aftermarket is just catching on.The AR would be nothing without the aftermarket suppliers.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR. Keep reading.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one) Your kidding right, it's huge. And you can pop off the barrel and clean it with ease
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade) I agree.
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too) Not true you need a special separate pre calibrated wrench, the ACR's wrench is affixed to the barrel.
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too) It's a DI weapon why would you need it?
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR. No not at all.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded. A true statement but it is still a warm over of an outdated platform on it's way to retirement. And as far as piston conversions go, the AR was never designed to be one, that's why so many have carrier tilt issues. Not to mention the ACR has a free floated barrel, monolithic top rail and has no need for a buffer tube, (a huge weakness of the AR) did I mention the ACR has a side folding stock and has the capability of switching not only barrel lengths but calibers from 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 and 6.8 in the field to adapt to any mission any time anywhere. I know the manufacture has been slow to get up to speed on this but if you look on Bushmasters web sight the conversion kits are listed, and others have started to produce them on there own. Like I said give it a bit of time, it is exactly what Magpul promised.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
Nice try. O BTW I got mine for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. Like momma said "you better shop around".
3/6/2012 1:03:54 AM
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
Nice try. O BTW I got mine for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. Like momma said "you better shop around".
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR. Are you serious.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.Not true. Bushmaster is offering parts there just slow to ramp up, check there catalog. Not to mention the aftermarket is just catching on.The AR would be nothing without the aftermarket suppliers.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR. Keep reading.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one) Your kidding right, it's huge. And you can pop off the barrel and clean it with ease
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade) I agree.
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too) Not true you need a special separate pre calibrated wrench, the ACR's wrench is affixed to the barrel.
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too) It's a DI weapon why would you need it?
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR. No not at all.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded. A true statement but it is still a warm over of an outdated platform on it's way to retirement. And as far as piston conversions go, the AR was never designed to be one, that's why so many have carrier tilt issues. Not to mention the ACR has a free floated barrel, monolithic top rail and has no need for a buffer tube, (a huge weakness of the AR) did I mention the ACR has a side folding stock and has the capability of switching not only barrel lengths but calibers from 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 and 6.8 in the field to adapt to any mission any time anywhere. I know the manufacture has been slow to get up to speed on this but if you look on Bushmasters web sight the conversion kits are listed, and others have started to produce them on there own. Like I said give it a bit of time, it is exactly what Magpul promised.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
Why bother investing in the past. I like old TV's but I'm not trading in my flat screen for one just because I can put tinfoil on the rabbit ears and get a bit of better reception.Originally Posted By Undertaker:
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR. Are you serious.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.Not true. Bushmaster is offering parts there just slow to ramp up, check there catalog. Not to mention the aftermarket is just catching on.The AR would be nothing without the aftermarket suppliers.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR. Keep reading.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one) Your kidding right, it's huge. And you can pop off the barrel and clean it with ease
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade) I agree.
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too) Not true you need a special separate pre calibrated wrench, the ACR's wrench is affixed to the barrel.
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too) It's a DI weapon why would you need it?
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR. No not at all.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded. A true statement but it is still a warm over of an outdated platform on it's way to retirement. And as far as piston conversions go, the AR was never designed to be one, that's why so many have carrier tilt issues. Not to mention the ACR has a free floated barrel, monolithic top rail and has no need for a buffer tube, (a huge weakness of the AR) did I mention the ACR has a side folding stock and has the capability of switching not only barrel lengths but calibers from 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 and 6.8 in the field to adapt to any mission any time anywhere. I know the manufacture has been slow to get up to speed on this but if you look on Bushmasters web sight the conversion kits are listed, and others have started to produce them on there own. Like I said give it a bit of time, it is exactly what Magpul promised.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
Nice try. O BTW I got mine for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. Like momma said "you better shop around".
First off...I think the ACR is a pretty cool design and I really hope to see it succeed...but, I think you're very naive.
The AR15 on it's way to retirement? Yeah...that's pretty much the opposite of what MOST industry professionals are saying...or what common sense should tell you.
1. The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for.
2. The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much.
3. With defense budget cuts, pretty much everyone in the industry has already picked the IC competition to go nowhere fast...including the companies still competing in it.
4. The military doesn't give a shit about folding stocks...and this feature has been removed from Remington's ACR offering.
5. The military doesn't give a shit about a tool-less barrel change....and this feature has been removed from Remington's ACR offering
6. Without military adoption, the ACR is never going to receive the consumer interest or aftermarket support needed to drive future development and success for the platform to the level that the AR15 has seen.
7. Remington offering their updated version of the ACR is the only chance this design has at a semi-successful future. Without a civilian Remington version...Bushmaster is going to propel their ACR just as far as they have their AR15's...straight to the glamorous world of weekend plinking and dirt-clod shooting.
I think Sinless is correct here.
3/6/2012 7:39:05 AM
Topic Moved
3/6/2012 3:58:21 PM
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
3/6/2012 4:55:05 PM
Originally Posted By PreppedZombieHunter:
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
Why are you selling yours? No caliber kits?
3/6/2012 7:47:33 PM
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
An LWRC.......
3/6/2012 8:53:59 PM
Originally Posted By BoovarBjarki:
Why are you selling yours? No caliber kits?
Originally Posted By PreppedZombieHunter:
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
Why are you selling yours? No caliber kits?
Yes. I bought the ACR thinking the would be multi caliber. That's just been a Bushmaster dream. I have other 5.56 rifles that are lighter and shoot better.
3/6/2012 11:30:52 PM
Originally Posted By Xskier45:
First off...I think the ACR is a pretty cool design and I really hope to see it succeed...but, I think you're very naive.
The AR15 on it's way to retirement? Yeah...that's pretty much the opposite of what MOST industry professionals are saying...or what common sense should tell you.
1. The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for.
2. The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much.
3. With defense budget cuts, pretty much everyone in the industry has already picked the IC competition to go nowhere fast...including the companies still competing in it.
4. The military doesn't give a shit about folding stocks...and this feature has been removed from Remington's ACR offering.
5. The military doesn't give a shit about a tool-less barrel change....and this feature has been removed from Remington's ACR offering
6. Without military adoption, the ACR is never going to receive the consumer interest or aftermarket support needed to drive future development and success for the platform to the level that the AR15 has seen.
7. Remington offering their updated version of the ACR is the only chance this design has at a semi-successful future. Without a civilian Remington version...Bushmaster is going to propel their ACR just as far as they have their AR15's...straight to the glamorous world of weekend plinking and dirt-clod shooting.
I think Sinless is correct here.
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
Nice try. O BTW I got mine for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. Like momma said "you better shop around".
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR. Are you serious.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.Not true. Bushmaster is offering parts there just slow to ramp up, check there catalog. Not to mention the aftermarket is just catching on.The AR would be nothing without the aftermarket suppliers.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR. Keep reading.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one) Your kidding right, it's huge. And you can pop off the barrel and clean it with ease
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade) I agree.
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too) Not true you need a special separate pre calibrated wrench, the ACR's wrench is affixed to the barrel.
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too) It's a DI weapon why would you need it?
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR. No not at all.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded. A true statement but it is still a warm over of an outdated platform on it's way to retirement. And as far as piston conversions go, the AR was never designed to be one, that's why so many have carrier tilt issues. Not to mention the ACR has a free floated barrel, monolithic top rail and has no need for a buffer tube, (a huge weakness of the AR) did I mention the ACR has a side folding stock and has the capability of switching not only barrel lengths but calibers from 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 and 6.8 in the field to adapt to any mission any time anywhere. I know the manufacture has been slow to get up to speed on this but if you look on Bushmasters web sight the conversion kits are listed, and others have started to produce them on there own. Like I said give it a bit of time, it is exactly what Magpul promised.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
Why bother investing in the past. I like old TV's but I'm not trading in my flat screen for one just because I can put tinfoil on the rabbit ears and get a bit of better reception.Originally Posted By Undertaker:
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
I just think about what kind of AR $1600 could buy
A very nice one, but it still won't be an ACR.
I love the AR platform as much as anyone but it is based on what a 55 year old design and has many short comings and limitations. It is and always will be a great weapon but there is only so much you can warm over a half century old weapons platform. The AR is yesterday and the ACR is today, just like the any other weapons transition we have witnessed in US history some will refuse to let go.
Before the flaming begins let me say I will never get rid of certain AR's that I have, but I'm also not going to let sentimentality get in the way of progress.
Flame suite on.
At this point its hard to pick anything over the AR. Are you serious.
The ACR is nice but it is has zero support coming from bushmaster. Parts are near impossible to find to buy.Not true. Bushmaster is offering parts there just slow to ramp up, check there catalog. Not to mention the aftermarket is just catching on.The AR would be nothing without the aftermarket suppliers.
It also doesnt offer a lot over and AR. Keep reading.
Easier cleaning being a piston.(not a big difference but a small one) Your kidding right, it's huge. And you can pop off the barrel and clean it with ease
Forward charging handle.(big upgrade) I agree.
Quick change barrel(LMT MRP has one too) Not true you need a special separate pre calibrated wrench, the ACR's wrench is affixed to the barrel.
Adjustable gas regulator(ou can get these for AR too) It's a DI weapon why would you need it?
Thats honestly about it, its more expensive and parts are scarce. Its honestly hard to justify it over an AR. No not at all.
The AR desin may be 55yrs old but we have seen huge improvements to the rifles and a Block II M4 is a vastly superior weapon to the first rifle fielded. A true statement but it is still a warm over of an outdated platform on it's way to retirement. And as far as piston conversions go, the AR was never designed to be one, that's why so many have carrier tilt issues. Not to mention the ACR has a free floated barrel, monolithic top rail and has no need for a buffer tube, (a huge weakness of the AR) did I mention the ACR has a side folding stock and has the capability of switching not only barrel lengths but calibers from 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 and 6.8 in the field to adapt to any mission any time anywhere. I know the manufacture has been slow to get up to speed on this but if you look on Bushmasters web sight the conversion kits are listed, and others have started to produce them on there own. Like I said give it a bit of time, it is exactly what Magpul promised.
A Block II M4 is also about the cost of an ACR.
Nice try. O BTW I got mine for $1,350.00 shipped to my FFL. Like momma said "you better shop around".
First off...I think the ACR is a pretty cool design and I really hope to see it succeed...but, I think you're very naive.
The AR15 on it's way to retirement? Yeah...that's pretty much the opposite of what MOST industry professionals are saying...or what common sense should tell you.
1. The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for.
2. The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much.
3. With defense budget cuts, pretty much everyone in the industry has already picked the IC competition to go nowhere fast...including the companies still competing in it.
4. The military doesn't give a shit about folding stocks...and this feature has been removed from Remington's ACR offering.
5. The military doesn't give a shit about a tool-less barrel change....and this feature has been removed from Remington's ACR offering
6. Without military adoption, the ACR is never going to receive the consumer interest or aftermarket support needed to drive future development and success for the platform to the level that the AR15 has seen.
7. Remington offering their updated version of the ACR is the only chance this design has at a semi-successful future. Without a civilian Remington version...Bushmaster is going to propel their ACR just as far as they have their AR15's...straight to the glamorous world of weekend plinking and dirt-clod shooting.
I think Sinless is correct here.
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think
. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more
.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
3/6/2012 11:34:46 PM
Originally Posted By PreppedZombieHunter:
Yes. I bought the ACR thinking the would be multi caliber. That's just been a Bushmaster dream. I have other 5.56 rifles that are lighter and shoot better.
Originally Posted By BoovarBjarki:
Why are you selling yours? No caliber kits?
Originally Posted By PreppedZombieHunter:
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
I'm right now thinking of selling my Tan Basic ACR. It has less than 100 rounds through it in perfect condition. I have been asking $1500 but no takers. Id also trade it for a M1A Scout Squad. Still no takers. Looks like Bushmaster sucker me. I guess I fell for the hype when they first came out. Leaned a good lesson, wait a while before you buy an new style weapon.
Why are you selling yours? No caliber kits?
Yes. I bought the ACR thinking the would be multi caliber. That's just been a Bushmaster dream. I have other 5.56 rifles that are lighter and shoot better.
It is multi caliber capable, people have produced there own conversions. Just because BM has been retarded and not gotten the conversions to market in a timely matter doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Have patients the kits are coming, and they will drop right in and function as advertised.
3/7/2012 3:29:53 AM
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think
. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more
.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
Although I am far from a firearms expert, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Crying about H&K and FN having corrupt politicians, stealing American dollars, etc. is pretty much bogus whining. Did they use lobbyists or other political connections to get in the door? Probably. Guess what? So does pretty much everyone else. You think S&W, Colt, Springfield, etc. don't do the exact same thing? If your answer is no then you are woefully misinformed. H&K and FN got their foot in the door the same way everyone else has. That's not what got them contracts though. A superior product got them the contract.
I'm all about buying American. I truly believe that American companies are capable of producing products of the same quality and caliber as their foreign competitors. However, Bushmaster is not the company I would put out front as an example of this. There are just too many problems. Their QC just isn't up to snuff. I learned everything I needed to know about Bushmaster a few years back when our Tact Team was purchasing new rifles. They bought Bushmasters. The problems started immediately. Almost all of the rifles had improperly staked gas keys. Some weren't staked at all. And this isn't 3 or 4 rifles we are talking about, we are talking about a purchase of 40-some rifles. I know they were having additional issues besides the gas keys. After months of wrangling and arguing with Bushmaster (and multiple failed attempts by Bushmaster to fix the rifles) they agreed to refund the purchase and take the rifles back. Never again...
FYI: Our Tact Team bought new rifles last fall. After exhaustive testing of rifles from multiple manufacturers they wound up choosing...the H&K G36C.
And for what it is worth, I'm not some huge fan of H&K products. I don't own any. But I do know good stuff when I see it.
3/7/2012 11:50:17 AM
Originally Posted By NerdCOP:
Although I am far from a firearms expert, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Crying about H&K and FN having corrupt politicians, stealing American dollars, etc. is pretty much bogus whining. Did they use lobbyists or other political connections to get in the door? Probably. Guess what? So does pretty much everyone else. You think S&W, Colt, Springfield, etc. don't do the exact same thing? If your answer is no then you are woefully misinformed. H&K and FN got their foot in the door the same way everyone else has. That's not what got them contracts though. A superior product got them the contract.
I'm all about buying American. I truly believe that American companies are capable of producing products of the same quality and caliber as their foreign competitors. However, Bushmaster is not the company I would put out front as an example of this. There are just too many problems. Their QC just isn't up to snuff. I learned everything I needed to know about Bushmaster a few years back when our Tact Team was purchasing new rifles. They bought Bushmasters. The problems started immediately. Almost all of the rifles had improperly staked gas keys. Some weren't staked at all. And this isn't 3 or 4 rifles we are talking about, we are talking about a purchase of 40-some rifles. I know they were having additional issues besides the gas keys. After months of wrangling and arguing with Bushmaster (and multiple failed attempts by Bushmaster to fix the rifles) they agreed to refund the purchase and take the rifles back. Never again...
FYI: Our Tact Team bought new rifles last fall. After exhaustive testing of rifles from multiple manufacturers they wound up choosing...the H&K G36C.
And for what it is worth, I'm not some huge fan of H&K products. I don't own any. But I do know good stuff when I see it.
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think
. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more
.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
Although I am far from a firearms expert, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Crying about H&K and FN having corrupt politicians, stealing American dollars, etc. is pretty much bogus whining. Did they use lobbyists or other political connections to get in the door? Probably. Guess what? So does pretty much everyone else. You think S&W, Colt, Springfield, etc. don't do the exact same thing? If your answer is no then you are woefully misinformed. H&K and FN got their foot in the door the same way everyone else has. That's not what got them contracts though. A superior product got them the contract.
I'm all about buying American. I truly believe that American companies are capable of producing products of the same quality and caliber as their foreign competitors. However, Bushmaster is not the company I would put out front as an example of this. There are just too many problems. Their QC just isn't up to snuff. I learned everything I needed to know about Bushmaster a few years back when our Tact Team was purchasing new rifles. They bought Bushmasters. The problems started immediately. Almost all of the rifles had improperly staked gas keys. Some weren't staked at all. And this isn't 3 or 4 rifles we are talking about, we are talking about a purchase of 40-some rifles. I know they were having additional issues besides the gas keys. After months of wrangling and arguing with Bushmaster (and multiple failed attempts by Bushmaster to fix the rifles) they agreed to refund the purchase and take the rifles back. Never again...
FYI: Our Tact Team bought new rifles last fall. After exhaustive testing of rifles from multiple manufacturers they wound up choosing...the H&K G36C.
And for what it is worth, I'm not some huge fan of H&K products. I don't own any. But I do know good stuff when I see it.
i have to agree using bushmaster as an example was a poor idea, ask most anyone and bushmaster makes sub par rifles at this point in time.
i think a good example of quality american firearms would be bravo company, colt, daniel defense, KAC(emphasis on this one)
3/7/2012 3:24:15 PM
neardcop and sinlessorrow,
I agree Bushmaster is not the best example but keep in mind that the ACR was designed by Magpul not Bushmaster. Bushmaster is simply under a licensing contract to produce it, and yea they did screw the pooch as far as coming through with all of the support and conversion kits. But Like said it's all coming together, especially since Remington stepped into the picture. Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
Bottom line is the Remington ACR is in the trials to be the replacement to the M16 family of weapons. The ACR for the military has gone through many refinements per DOD requests, does this mean the ACR is a shoe in no but it does have an excellent chance and is all American made. That fact alone being an American design will give it preference.
I agree Bushmaster is not the best example but keep in mind that the ACR was designed by Magpul not Bushmaster. Bushmaster is simply under a licensing contract to produce it, and yea they did screw the pooch as far as coming through with all of the support and conversion kits. But Like said it's all coming together, especially since Remington stepped into the picture. Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
Bottom line is the Remington ACR is in the trials to be the replacement to the M16 family of weapons. The ACR for the military has gone through many refinements per DOD requests, does this mean the ACR is a shoe in no but it does have an excellent chance and is all American made. That fact alone being an American design will give it preference.
3/7/2012 3:26:40 PM
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
neardcop and sinlessorrow,
I agree Bushmaster is not the best example but keep in mind that the ACR was designed by Magpul not Bushmaster. Bushmaster is simply under a licensing contract to produce it, and yea they did screw the pooch as far as coming through with all of the support and conversion kits. But Like said it's all coming together, especially since Remington stepped into the picture. Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0Pu-rvFjs
Bottom line is the Remington ACR is in the trials to be the replacement to the M16 family of weapons. The ACR for the military has gone through many refinements per DOD requests, does this mean the ACR is a shoe in no but it does have an excellent chance and is all American made. That fact alone being an American design will give it preference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbAha3_XIxY
neardcop and sinlessorrow,
I agree Bushmaster is not the best example but keep in mind that the ACR was designed by Magpul not Bushmaster. Bushmaster is simply under a licensing contract to produce it, and yea they did screw the pooch as far as coming through with all of the support and conversion kits. But Like said it's all coming together, especially since Remington stepped into the picture. Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0Pu-rvFjs
Bottom line is the Remington ACR is in the trials to be the replacement to the M16 family of weapons. The ACR for the military has gone through many refinements per DOD requests, does this mean the ACR is a shoe in no but it does have an excellent chance and is all American made. That fact alone being an American design will give it preference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbAha3_XIxYthe ADCOR BEAR is in the comp as well and its all american made too
3/7/2012 3:32:57 PM
Can you post some pics and info?
3/7/2012 6:08:50 PM
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think
. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more
.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
Feel free to ignore or disagree with any of the things I listed, but there's the way you want the world to be, and there's the way it is.
You blow off points 3-7...but that's the way things are, whether you like it or not. Two of the reasons why you consider your pet rifle superior to the standard AR15 (folding stock/quick change barrel) have been done away with by Remington. That's a fact.
None of the entrants in the IC competition have submitted anything that is a "quantum leap" in firearms technology. They shoot the same round and are no more lethal, they have the same capacity, they weigh about the same, and they're no more accurate. The only thing they bring to the table over the AR15 is the need for a little less cleaning, and longer parts life. Both of those are great mind you, but nothing close to quantum leap in technology.
As was said before, you can bitch and moan about the politics involved all you want...but every company plays that game, domestic and foreign. So "need you say more?" No, not really. You didn't make any points or offer any insight into the situation as it applies to reality.
You don't have to worry about a non-U.S. company winning the trials, because Colt is going to win...again...as always...with their old outdated AR15. Why? because it's the cheapest path with least resistance...and it already meets all the requirements spec'd out for the ICC.
3/7/2012 7:14:32 PM
Originally Posted By Xskier45:
Feel free to ignore or disagree with any of the things I listed, but there's the way you want the world to be, and there's the way it is.
You blow off points 3-7...but that's the way things are, whether you like it or not. Two of the reasons why you consider your pet rifle superior to the standard AR15 (folding stock/quick change barrel) have been done away with by Remington. That's a fact.
None of the entrants in the IC competition have submitted anything that is a "quantum leap" in firearms technology. They shoot the same round and are no more lethal, they have the same capacity, they weigh about the same, and they're no more accurate. The only thing they bring to the table over the AR15 is the need for a little less cleaning, and longer parts life. Both of those are great mind you, but nothing close to quantum leap in technology.
As was said before, you can bitch and moan about the politics involved all you want...but every company plays that game, domestic and foreign. So "need you say more?" No, not really. You didn't make any points or offer any insight into the situation as it applies to reality.
You don't have to worry about a non-U.S. company winning the trials, because Colt is going to win...again...as always...with their old outdated AR15. Why? because it's the cheapest path with least resistance...and it already meets all the requirements spec'd out for the ICC.
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
#1 and #2 are the only ones worthy of answering.
#1"The only platforms that have a slight chance in hell at unseating the AR15 as the U.S.'s military rifle are the Hk416 or FN SCAR....both have already been tested and vetted more than the ACR will ever get the chance for."
H&K and FN have there hands in the pocket of US tax payers and have corrupt politicians in there pockets, what do ya think
. The ACR is all American made, my loyalty and dollars go with my country. Screw giving a foreign country the contract to equip our military, invest in this country and you will get the best. Magpul proved this with the Massada, just put those big Government dollars behind it like H&K and FN have wrongfully enjoyed and see what happens instead of stonewalling a quantum leap in American firearms technology. If not the civilian sector will take the ACR to it's full potential.
2. "The SCAR and 416 have actual combat use...and despite having a slight foot in the door...they are still not being enthusiastically selected over the AR15...because even though they offer some improvements, they don't offer enough improvements for anyone to care all that much."
They have "actual combat use" because of politics, that's it. FN and H&K have pre existing contracts with the DOD. Need I say more
.
3 through 7... yada, yada, yada...... SOS.
Feel free to ignore or disagree with any of the things I listed, but there's the way you want the world to be, and there's the way it is.
You blow off points 3-7...but that's the way things are, whether you like it or not. Two of the reasons why you consider your pet rifle superior to the standard AR15 (folding stock/quick change barrel) have been done away with by Remington. That's a fact.
None of the entrants in the IC competition have submitted anything that is a "quantum leap" in firearms technology. They shoot the same round and are no more lethal, they have the same capacity, they weigh about the same, and they're no more accurate. The only thing they bring to the table over the AR15 is the need for a little less cleaning, and longer parts life. Both of those are great mind you, but nothing close to quantum leap in technology.
As was said before, you can bitch and moan about the politics involved all you want...but every company plays that game, domestic and foreign. So "need you say more?" No, not really. You didn't make any points or offer any insight into the situation as it applies to reality.
You don't have to worry about a non-U.S. company winning the trials, because Colt is going to win...again...as always...with their old outdated AR15. Why? because it's the cheapest path with least resistance...and it already meets all the requirements spec'd out for the ICC.
excellent point. everything you say is the truth sadly.
like i said the only thing thats an upgrade on the ACR is the forward charging handle. thats it IMO
sure a piston might make cleaning easier, but lets face it our military will still preach about white glove cleaning(which we all know is overboard excessive and not needed and actually causes more harm than good to finishes) no matter the rifle.
there are no rifles out there right now that do anything really better than the Stoner system, its a perfectly reliable system.
3/7/2012 8:07:17 PM
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
the ADCOR BEAR is in the comp as well and its all american made too
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
neardcop and sinlessorrow,
I agree Bushmaster is not the best example but keep in mind that the ACR was designed by Magpul not Bushmaster. Bushmaster is simply under a licensing contract to produce it, and yea they did screw the pooch as far as coming through with all of the support and conversion kits. But Like said it's all coming together, especially since Remington stepped into the picture. Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0Pu-rvFjs
Bottom line is the Remington ACR is in the trials to be the replacement to the M16 family of weapons. The ACR for the military has gone through many refinements per DOD requests, does this mean the ACR is a shoe in no but it does have an excellent chance and is all American made. That fact alone being an American design will give it preference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbAha3_XIxY
neardcop and sinlessorrow,
I agree Bushmaster is not the best example but keep in mind that the ACR was designed by Magpul not Bushmaster. Bushmaster is simply under a licensing contract to produce it, and yea they did screw the pooch as far as coming through with all of the support and conversion kits. But Like said it's all coming together, especially since Remington stepped into the picture. Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0Pu-rvFjs
Bottom line is the Remington ACR is in the trials to be the replacement to the M16 family of weapons. The ACR for the military has gone through many refinements per DOD requests, does this mean the ACR is a shoe in no but it does have an excellent chance and is all American made. That fact alone being an American design will give it preference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbAha3_XIxYthe ADCOR BEAR is in the comp as well and its all american made too
and in my opinion is far better. It would also be much cheaper to retrofit the military and easier from the logistical side as you only would really need to replace upper receivers instead of having a whole new weapon.
3/7/2012 9:45:14 PM
If I personally had the pick...I'd opt for the 416 for 5.56 weapons and the 417 for 7.62 DMR weapons.
- A number of small groups already use them and like them
- The marines are using the 416 platform already for their IAR
- Both are already very well tested
- Both are already very well vetted
- Both maintain essentially the same manual of arms as our current weapons which would decrease training time and training costs by retaining familiarity with soldiers.[/li]
They're made by a very well established and respected company known for:
- Quality products and excellent quality control
- Exceptional research and development capabilities
- Large manufacturing capacities.
- Over 50 years of successfully supplying law enforcement and military small arms to countries throughout the world...including our own
That being said, I still don't think they have a chance. Just my opinion, but my prediction would be the following; from most likely to least likely to be our service rifle for the foreseeable future:
1. Colt M4
2. Hk 416
3. FN SCAR
4. Remington ACR
- A number of small groups already use them and like them
- The marines are using the 416 platform already for their IAR
- Both are already very well tested
- Both are already very well vetted
- Both maintain essentially the same manual of arms as our current weapons which would decrease training time and training costs by retaining familiarity with soldiers.[/li]
They're made by a very well established and respected company known for:
- Quality products and excellent quality control
- Exceptional research and development capabilities
- Large manufacturing capacities.
- Over 50 years of successfully supplying law enforcement and military small arms to countries throughout the world...including our own
That being said, I still don't think they have a chance. Just my opinion, but my prediction would be the following; from most likely to least likely to be our service rifle for the foreseeable future:
1. Colt M4
2. Hk 416
3. FN SCAR
4. Remington ACR
3/8/2012 12:50:23 AM
Originally Posted By Undertaker:
Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
Bushmaster is now in name only, that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushmaster name got dropped altogether.
I agree with you. I think they are going to want to put distance between their rifle representing them in the IC competition and the Bushmaster name. I think the ACR had some good ideas, but it just seems like they weren't executed as well as they should have been.
3/8/2012 8:21:35 PM
Originally Posted By Merkava:
I am happy with mine. Got it in a trade. No problems. Shoots great and love the ergonomics. Would like a 14.5 LW barrel though.
http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/CircRN/DSC0037012.jpg
I am happy with mine. Got it in a trade. No problems. Shoots great and love the ergonomics. Would like a 14.5 LW barrel though.
http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/CircRN/DSC0037012.jpg
I had an ACR...From the PIC, I like that 551-A1 better...
3/8/2012 8:54:57 PM
Yea the Sig is a fine weapon, but I'm fully committed to my ACR. The rifle fires great under any condition and yes it is completely modular / adaptable. If Bushmaster.... Oops, Remington doesn't come out with the conversion kits soon I'm going to build my own. I just sent the barrel to ADCO for a full reprofile (pencil profile) and shorten 2 1/2". With my PWS FSC556 perm attached from chamber to the tip of the break it will be 16" overall.
3/13/2012 1:01:24 PM
The ACR taking over..? Forgive me, but im sure my feet will feel the cold as hell freezes over... The AR being as "ancient" as some make it out to be, of what consequence is this to its performance and reliability? The best improvements weve seen to Stoners system are simple mods. to his system, but nothing major or really breakthrough in regards to technology as the other posters have stated. Take the Mosin-Nagant, 60 years of service in Russia and U.S.S.R. and it was still(and is still a great rifle IMHO, just slow)the go to rifle until Kalachnikov designed the AK-47 in 1947(Automatic Kalachnikov-1947 design year). And that gun is more "ancient" than the AR, and id like anybody to TRY and tell me the AK-47 is going anywhere...anytime soon...at all. If a military wants a cheaper piston gun, theyll buy AK's, if they want a cheaper alternative albeit a bit more costly and harder to train on theyll buy AR's.
Of course this is only my .02, but I feel strongly that most that have a clue as to what theyre talking about in regards to ballistics and simplistics(lol)...theyll agree at least somewhat closely. But to hit on the rest, H&K makes a very high quality weapon, so does FN...THAT is why they have contracts with our govnt. Yes politics have ALOT to do with it, but our Commandant and Generals arent gonna send theyre troops to war with sub-par weaponry bc some "monkey in a suite" has a slick tongue in D.C.. At the end of the day it has to perform, and do it better than well and right in the middle of hell....as well as do it better than whats already out there. The ACR, while being a good weapon(as it appears and reads, havent had the opp to shoot one personally), still cant do this day in and day out. If it did, this thread would be redundant.
The AR being as "ancient" as some make it out to be, of what consequence is this to its performance and reliability? The best improvements weve seen to Stoners system are simple mods. to his system, but nothing major or really breakthrough in regards to technology as the other posters have stated. Take the Mosin-Nagant, 60 years of service in Russia and U.S.S.R. and it was still(and is still a great rifle IMHO, just slow)the go to rifle until Kalachnikov designed the AK-47 in 1947(Automatic Kalachnikov-1947 design year). And that gun is more "ancient" than the AR, and id like anybody to TRY and tell me the AK-47 is going anywhere...anytime soon...at all. If a military wants a cheaper piston gun, theyll buy AK's, if they want a cheaper alternative albeit a bit more costly and harder to train on theyll buy AR's.
Of course this is only my .02, but I feel strongly that most that have a clue as to what theyre talking about in regards to ballistics and simplistics(lol)...theyll agree at least somewhat closely. But to hit on the rest, H&K makes a very high quality weapon, so does FN...THAT is why they have contracts with our govnt. Yes politics have ALOT to do with it, but our Commandant and Generals arent gonna send theyre troops to war with sub-par weaponry bc some "monkey in a suite" has a slick tongue in D.C.. At the end of the day it has to perform, and do it better than well and right in the middle of hell....as well as do it better than whats already out there. The ACR, while being a good weapon(as it appears and reads, havent had the opp to shoot one personally), still cant do this day in and day out. If it did, this thread would be redundant.
