Convince me that I'm nuts or not re: HK MR556

Hey guys, please help with my sanity (or not) -

I've gotten back into my HK kick. I sold my STI Ranger 1911 for an HK Pistol, I sold a sub MOA Rem 700 AICS gun for a German MP5 Parts Kit build, and now I'm thinking of selling my really high end AR-15 for an MR556.

Here's the AR I have:


Here's the part list:
Noveske 16 inch Recon Barrel
KAC-Knight's Armament Rifle Length URX II
Vltor Modular Upper Receiver, W/Bolt Assist/Shell Deflector
Kac-Knight's Armament Sr15/Pdw Triple Tap Muzzle Break, Inconel
Mid-Length Gas Tube
AR-15.com Billet Lower
Norgon Ambi-Catch
BAD-ASS Selectors
Spikes Tactical Nickel Boron M16 Bolt Carrier Group
Spikes Tactical Nickel Boron Battle Trigger
Spike's Tactical Lower Receiver Parts Kit
Spike's Tactical Billet Magazine Button
Spike's Tactical 6-Position Mil.-Spec. Buffer tube kit
Magpul CTR Carbine Stock M-Mil Black
Magpul Enhanced Rubber Buttpad
Magpul MIAD Grip
Magpul BAD (Battery Assist Device)
Magpul ASAP Ambidextrous Sling Attachment Point
Troy Ind. Rear Folding Battle Sight With Tritium, Black
Troy Ind. Folding Hk Battle Sight With Tritium, Black
PRI Gas Buster Charging Handle w/ Combat Latch

I built this gun as kind of an end-all, be-all SHTF/Zombie/Katrina/TEOTWAWI gun. But now I'm on this HK kick, and the MR556 is looking good again. I'm sure if I took the time to part it all out, I could recoup a decent amount of the money I put into it, and be pretty close to get a NIB MR556. My problem is that I decided against the MR556 when I built this gun because of the proprietary-ness of the MR556, i.e., non-milspec bolt or BCG. If the MR's failed (somehow), I could essentially never replace it or find another in a SHTF situation, so what use is it? I could swap out any random AR bolt with the one I have currently and be good to go.

On the Plus side, the MR556 seems to be ultra fucking reliable, and a very clean running gun being piston. And it's HK, bcause they hate me and love my wallet.

Not to mention a nice trinity of an HK P30LS, MP5-N, and a MR556.

Halp?

EDIT: Everyone thought this build was.. no-good when I parted it up. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/547480_.html

Yes, you are nuts. Proven rifle with high end components for an unknown factory gun...

Would you really consider the MR556 unknown? I mean, HK416?

Keep the gun you've got. It's already well built and known good.

Eh, the HK doesn't "do" anything that your current rifle won't do as good or better. It appears you have a better barrel than the HK so really, you might be trading down.

Do you actually use your rifle? Would you actually use the HK? What is your current shooting schedule? Is there anything you have noticed not working for you with your current setup?

I mean if you are just buying firearms to look at them and have them and whatever thats cool, i understand that there is the urge to swap things around. In that case go for it if you like.

But one would think that if you actually run your rifle you would know its strengths and weaknesses and whether or not you need a change.

If you are considering this for some sort of theoretical increase in reliability... you probably aren't going to see it.

Keep your boom stick.

Given a choice between the two, I'd take the one you already have. You did mention shtf and the MR556 has some proprietary parts which I'm not a fan of. In the end it's your money though, so do what makes you happy.

Do it. The likelihood of failure coupled with the likelihood of SHTF is so low, that I think you should get what you really want (the HK) and be done with it....until you are off your HK kick and sell it all for other stuff.

I would go so far as to say it isn't unknown. I myself have a European acquaintance that was issued a 416... myself and everyone else on the board we mutually visit got to hear quite frequently (read: every time he had access to a computer) of just how gloriously craptacular the HK416 was. Failure to feed,failure to fire,failure to extract OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Granted that was in very cold conditions but the their guns were very well taken care of and maintained appropriately. Stay away from anything that even resembles an HK made AR pattern rifle, at least that is my opinion.

ETA: I know this is contradictory to everything we usually hear about the 416, but if one starts digging you'll find that most of the reports of it from those using it on deployments of some form or who are truly using it HARD are very disappointing.

I would keep the gun you're running now. If it makes you feel any better I have a totally tricked out LaRue PredatAR (16" 5.56) and just looking at your gun makes me need to go and grab a towel.

This x1000 the parts usability of an AR is enough to justify never selling it
You can swap a bolt quickly and reuse the lower if your upper breaks

The more I'm thinking about it, the more it sounds like I am nuts.

Looks like I just need both. Crap.

For reference, everyone told me this build was crap, or over the top when I built it:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/547480_.html

IMHO it is a bit over the top, but I'd still take it over the MR556. I'd probably part it out and build a couple simple carbines

Also, I recall reading that the MR556 is not the same as the HK416, mainly in that it doesn't have a chrome-lined bore (see here). For the money, I would go with the SCAR since FNH really does try to cater to the US civilian shooter and it's closer to the "real" thing, but that's a different discussion altogether.

Eh, well it has been long enough that you should be able to write a nice detailed review on how it all worked together with accuracy reports and round counts and thoughts on balance and the trigger and such by now right?

I personally am curious how the rifle worked out in practice.

Keep it. the Noveske barrel is great and you KNOW what you have... its a good gun and i wouldnt mess with it... with that being said.... I LOVE new toys

Il say it...


Keep your current setup. Save up for the HK.

Shoot, I'd get another roller locked before I got an HK AR.... Not because the HK AR sucks, but because it's that expensive and isn't any more capable than your current setup (except it don't say HK).

JM0.02$

Yep

I'll also add that a UBR will even out the balance on the gun AND it's one if not THE most durable collapsing stock out there.

I'd go CTR myself.

Whatever blows your hair back!!

Myself, I would keep the AR and save for the HK. I've sold guns in the past and have lived to regret it later. And I you did decide to part with the AR and go with the HK, I’m sure you would be happy with your decision given the HK is no p.o.s.! I’m sure the HK would do everything you need it to do…and more, in the event of a mass, worldwide "Katrina" affair.

Me personally, I cant see the logic behind the HK416 or any other piston AR because they are just all over the place without standards or interchangeability. Not to say that they aren't fine guns, because I am sure at least some of them are. I just really like the idea of being able to pick up a BCG, gas tube, gas block/fsp from any random company that makes them and be fairly certain it will work on my rifles.

And while some people may deride this comment, I speak only from personal experience:

I have yet to see what a piston gun can do for me that my NiB coated BCG's don't already do.

I do.

A friend of mine drank the kool-aid and sold a 6920 and a BCM for a Mr-556, and he regrets it. While it shoots nice, it's a front heavy pig. It's also a propritary set up. I also believe that the bolt and FCG are different than the 416, but I cant confirm. Getting parts and service from HK can be difficult. It took me 4 months to get a new sear for my USP 40 compact. I can't remember, but I don't think that the chamber and bore are chrome lined (if I'm wrong, someone will say so). In my opinion, you're at the point of diminshing returns, and what your getting won't exceed what you've given up to get it. In the end it's up to you, good luck with your decision.

I say do what you want. That being said I was an inch away from trading my KAC SR15 and $1200 for a SCAR at a local gun shop. I went out and rented the SCAR at a range and was sorely disappointed in it's performance. If you can find anywhere to try it before you buy it, do it.

Everyone's on this kick about parts interchangeability. And really it's a laughable point. In a SHTF scenario, just how many bolts are you to come across? If you see another AR15 it will likely be protecting someone else and their family. Not up for parts. If someone has a spare, do you really think they're going to sell them? I wouldn't. I sleep happy knowing my SR15 bolt has at a minimum 15,000 more rounds under it's guarantee. Not only that, KAC has reported that they've never had a civvie break one of their bolts yet.

Make up your own mind and don't follow the mob mentality. Not everyone has a supply chain.

J agree with the ajove post. I read an artical about the H&K and when i read it didnt have a chromelined barrel and they still wanted severak grand for the rifle. Com-on. What makes this rifle so special?

I would keep your rifle and save for the hk417 clone inst.ead.

Wouldnt waste your money!

Keep the purty one you have now

Yep you're nuts.

Two letters: HK

Not saying it's justified, it's just the way it is.
I've shot a few of their pistols and I don't get why those command such a high price either.
All of this is just my opinion... don't want to start a brand war.

You suck. And, they hate you.

Keep yours, save and buy the HK if you really have to have it. I can't come up with any reason to get rid of the gun you already have.

Topic Moved

HK only makes pistols worth a damn even shooting. The G3, G38, nothing special, actually less accurate than their American counterparts. The XM8 anyone?

I like HK pistols, thats about it. I really only like the USP, and kinda like the MK23. Everything else is kinda crappy, as in not worth the price in any way shape or form. The USP isnt even worth the price everyone asks. But they charge it, because dumbasses will pay for it. I got my USP Tactical 45 for 1050$ instead of 12 or 1300$ as most shops have. I still over paid. Sure, its the best pistol I have personally ever shot, but that doesnt mean there arent any better out there for cheaper.

Hell, $500 M9s shoot just as good. CZ75 shoots well too, their 45 is kinda crappy, but you get the jist.

I dont see why everyone thinks "top spec ops goons" use HK weapons. You ONLY SEE THEM IN MOVIES AND TV! And video games I guess. I never see any other HK product seen anywhere else.

You are crazy, keep you gun, dont buy into the MR556. Now, if it were a REAL Hk416 upper, then I would say go for it. Just because your obviously an HK fan, but the MR556 and 762 rifles are not worth it. Plain and simple.

Go for the H&K..... its a dream to shoot. You will not be disappointed.

Keep yours at least until you have gotten a chance to shoot a MR556.

I like HKs but not the MR556. Over priced over weight out of balance.
There are just too many guns that work as well or better that don't have those negatives.

Some have to have the HK on the gun to feel good. I don't mind the label just not when it does not live up to its name

IMO

Wulfmann

As a piston owner who doesn't normally like or shoot DI's I am forced to admit that is one hell of a setup. If you want the HK that bad save up for it but trading that or selling it for one would be stupid. Hell I even run some of those parts on my SR-15 BEAR Elite Fighting Carbine so I know a lot of what you got on there rocks. Don't be stupid keep that shit.

If you do sell it or trade it a good old fashioned beating might be in order. (jk)

Why did you put a Troy front sight over the top of the KAC URXII Front sight post?

That's a good gun you have, just get both, you'll loose your ass and get 60%-70% if your lucky out your current build.

Being an HK guy I support buying the HK rifle.

However.....I wouldn't get rid of the rifle you have for it. It is beautiful. Save the opinionated stuff for or against the HK or the one you have. Think about it from a technical stand point, and financial. You will lose money on the deal. That is for sure. And the HK will do the same exact job as the rifle you have. They will both be great rifles. Anyone that owns the HK will tell you how they feel about it. People that don't own one or have never shot one can't.


As for the 416 in the mountains. With the cold and the snow, find me an AR style rifle that will do it. They all jam or have hangups in those conditions. The AR is not a perfect design. I love it, it is my go to platform and I have more rounds out of a M16/M4 (and my Stag M8) than any other rifle. But it isn't a perfect design. Not defending the HK416's initial performance during their field testing, (though I am pretty sure they worked the bugs out.) but all guns jam. One way or another, one day or another. It is the operator's responsibility to know how to get it back into the fight as best they can if they are able to. (definitely not shitting on anyone, don't take it personally please.)

That HK trio is perfect, do it. I'm also considering the mr556 to pair up with my HK P30S. Your build is quite nice though.

It's true the barrel is not chromed lined due to better accuracy (all you have to do is stick to brass and stay away from steel ammo), but the mr556 is a fine ass AR.

Hey if want an H&K then do it who cares what people think its your money.

With this guy. I LOVE my HK pistols but in my opinion they offer me things in a package that is hard to find in other pistols. Your current rig will probably outperform the HK in every category except for OTB testing, but really who does that shit? Ask a SEAL the last time they came out of the water blasting.

Wow, in the same thread you have the following arguement going on:



Then:



Do you guys not even *think* about what you are saying before you say it? Noveske has explained in interviews, articles, and blog entries why chrome lining is not optimal in a match barrel. And here comes another match barrel from another manufacturer (MR556 = Match Rifle 5.56) following suite and you berate them and call them stupid for not chrome lining it. I guess White Oak barrels are crap now too cause they are not chrome lining their stainless steel match barrels huh?

One of the smartest things anyone has said, and it will be ignored too.

Why, because it is the truth, but it is standing in the way of 20 year old thinking. I never understood why people want chrome lining on materials that are already rust resistant. Also.....I don't think I can find corrosive 5.56x45 anymore, if ever really. There is some mildly corrosive 7.62x51 out there, but it is old stuff.

Also people don't care when Noveske or white oak say or do. They only care about talking shit about HK. Just read the comments on every HK MR556 or 416 or MR762 thread. "buh....HK hates you because you suck, their guns are too expensive, and they don't have chrome lining. Go buy something else" (that is often the same price or more expensive). Screw it, let the people that understand how things really are buy the good stuff, and the arm chair idiots can buy the other stuff.

The last time I was at the range someone went on a rant about my HK45 about how it was too expensive and then told me I should buy an Ed Brown Despite the fact I shot just as well as he did with my HK45 vs his 1911. Stupid. Also I don't think that guy could shoot very well.....but it is what it is.

I own a MR556 and like it, but it sure seems like you're making a strawman argument. I can't find those quotes in this thread. Perhaps you can point me to them?

Bad Bull, Ag.

The HK barrel is not stainless. There's a big difference between a stainless barrel and a CS barrel. I prefer my CS barrels to be hammer forged and either CL or Nitrided and my stainless, well, they're stainless.


Daniel

No, it is not, but it does not matter. "Stainless Steel" is high chromium steel alloy, that was first rust resistant steel alloy invented just about 100 years ago. In this last 100 years lot of modern, low chromium, steel alloys that have strong rust resistance. Those modern alloys are better suited for (long lasting) firearms barrel than "Stainless Steel". Those alloys are, of course, much more (several times more) expensive that stainless steel, bur premium firearms manufacturer, who do not compete "on price" can afford to use them. HK is one of them.

Actually barrel that is not "stainless" does not mean it is plain steel with low rust resistance. One MR556 owner reported that he put cut of piece of MR556 barrel in salt water for few weeks. While water become brown, actual barrel does not show rust spots or pitting.

I know that all best things come invented around year 1911, but it is time to realize world of modern metallurgy and firearms designs ;)

This is just from this one thread. Want me to go find more threads/quotes? This is common rhetoric...

Everything below is my quotes from resources around the firearms industry.











The above quote infers some sort of stainless alloy has been used... And all the above quotes display the breadth of knowledge that is currently known, and easily referenced about the MR556 barrel. The MR556 is basically a U.S. manufactured H&K MR223, and so you can look to that rifle as well for some knowledge. But even after that rifle being on the market for 4y now nobody has been able to pry the material type out of H&K. The only thing that an H&K official let slip during a shot show discussion with an M4carbine.com member is that the MR556 barrel is "untreated". But we have no clue what that means and what level of knowledge this rep has. I mean, we know there is some sort of parkerization on the outside of the barrel. Is that a "treatment"?

Anyhow, I'm getting off topic. Back on topic:

We don't know the material the barrel is made from. But it seems fairly obvious from people's experiences that the barrel is fairly corrosion resistant down the bore. We know it is work hardened, cold forged, 6 land and groove, 1/7 twist, swagged, 16.5", "thick profile". We know the barrel and rifle were designed for accuracy (MR = Match Rifle, and H&K is pushing this), and that is the same reason for Pac-Nor, Noveske, and White Oak's unlined match barrels.

Pac-Nor even makes Noveske's barrels. Although they follow Noveske's instructions which differ from their own procedures, and use a 416R material on Noveske's barrels opposed to their own material on their barrels.

All these guys make outstanding barrels, and nobody would argue with that. Noveske, Pac-Nor, and White Oak are all following the same general recipe when it comes to match barrels...and guess what:

H&K is following the same general recipe on the MR556, but for some reason, everyone on this board automatically knows the MR556's barrel is crap (most of them without even seeing the thing). All because the MR556 isn't chrome lined.

Sidenote:

I did find the following quote on another board, but is unreliable:

Cool.

Its too bad there isn't any corrosive 5.56 or .223 ammo commonly available and a MR556 owner willing to test. I'd like to see the effects of corrosive ammo on the MR556's unlined bore. I've personally seen the effects of leaving corrosive salts in the bore of a couple of AK varients (which were chrome lined) over the course of a few months of a humid summer. It ain't pretty.

Are the chambers of the MR556 chromed? I thought one of the main benefits of the chrome lined chamber of the AR15 is that it assists extraction, thus improving reliability.

Personal experience also tells me that chrome lining makes the bore easier to clean

The AR15's I've owned shot out of the box around 1 MOA. These were chrome lined. That's more than enough accuracy for me. If HK added a chromed bore to the MR556, I would consider buying it. Otherwise, I'll pass.

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