AR15.Com Archives
 Most reliable & accurate piston type Ar's?
kubitza1234  [Member]
1/16/2012 4:02:52 AM EST
I have owned all types of guns but now want to get into the ar scene. I figured this was the site to join. Names Mark and I'm trying to decide which AR is for me. Looking for a very accurate and reliable AR. Let's hear some opinions please. I like the looks and reviews of the JP rifles and POF. Don't mind spending alil more for a great rifle but don't want to spend 3k if there's something as good or better for less. Any help would be great fellas,
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d90king  [Member]
1/16/2012 4:07:09 AM EST
LWRCI makes a very accurate piston AR. My A3 was a MOA rifle.
KILLERB6  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 4:17:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By d90king:
LWRCI makes a very accurate piston AR. My A3 was a MOA rifle.


This.

To which I will add get the rifle that has the features/price you are looking for; ammo is the biggest contributor/detractor to accuracy.
turb06le240  [Member]
1/16/2012 4:34:53 AM EST
Welcome aboard,
I love my LWRC's but the fact of the matter is I could have bought 2 adams arms uppers and built 2 decent lowers for what one cost me...
Heres my favorite AR, and I own a safe full...

Adams arms Evo ultralite upper {I have the carbine but if you need more rail space they make a middy} $800
then you can build a nice lower for your self...
PSA parts kit minus trigger group $30
SSA trigger $170
Hogue grip $15
magpul UBR stock $220
Buffer assembly $50
Noveske lower $180
and for under $1500 you have a sick rifle, and whats nice about it, is you can pick what you want, thats all pretty expensive stuff, you can get a ctr stock for $75 {which is my favorite}, and an aero lower for $80 {I also like these}, and a rra trigger for $80{all I use} and have just as nice of a rifle for around 1200... Then add a winter trigger guard, antiwalk pins, quick takedown pins, a bad lever for 30, ect...
Build it yourself, you end up knowing the weapon very well, you only need $20 of tools to build a lower receiver and watch a 5 minute video...

Heres mine... I used an aero Grim reaper lower, RRA trigger, CTR stock, BGM large lever charge handle, tactical link BAL, Magpul afg, winter trigger gaurd, dpms large safety selector, oversized mag release, kns antiwalks {I like how they make the rra trigger feel}, and leupold 63300 site, with everything mounted as seen in the pics, the rifle weighs 7 lbs 5 oz's... And as it sits, I spent around $1500 on it... My LWRC with no optics no addons, just stock cost me $2100, and this one shoots better, is lighter, more reliable, easier to use, and better balanced... One of those if I knew then what I know now situations... Not to mention the same ammo shot from both guns consistently comes out of this one 78fps faster than the lwrc...




RUTGERS95  [Member]
1/16/2012 5:26:45 AM EST
very true but op said reliable too and seeing as lwrc passed the seal otb test, I'd say lwrc fits the bill.

others to look at as well if price is an issue however, lwrc barrels are best in the business...

bear
pws
turb06le240  [Member]
1/16/2012 5:40:22 AM EST
my LWRC has gone back twice in under 2000 rounds, they replaced multiple parts in the piston assembly, the Adams arms upper has been through 1500 rounds so far with out a failure...
Rickymachinegun  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 6:15:58 AM EST
There are some serious products available. Everything good youve read about POF is true.
I have a P308 and its one of the best rifles ive ever used. My only issue is that you cant use mil spec folding sites on the POFs

I also have 2 LWRCs an A2 SBRed and an A3

My favorite is the A3 it shoots sub moa with just about any decent ammo. The standard features alone set LWRCs apart.

I have handled a PWS Diablo and I will def be getting a PWS in the near future.

If money is of secondary concern go for an LWRC best rifles out there IMO
zulthor  [Member]
1/16/2012 6:43:31 AM EST
Honestly there isn't one piston system AR that towers above the rest. A LWRC is not going to dominate an AA, HK, Sig, Bear, Ruger, etc. in accuracy or reliability. But neither are those going to dominate an LWRC. That being said I think probably the best value(while being as reliable and accurate as anything else out there) is an AA/Huldra if you spend the rest of the money you would spend on an LWRC you can get an optic with it and a trigger.

AA/Huldra w/trigger, w/optic > LWRC without optic, without upgraded trigger.

The AA piston system is used by more companies than any other piston system. Smith & Wesson, ATI, Christensen Arms, Huldra, Red Jacket, Mega Machine, and (Previously) Spikes. There's probably some other companies I forgot.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 8:11:53 AM EST
As far as accurace

Lwrci followed by pws imo

Ive seen lerc hit .5 and pws hit .8 moa
zulthor  [Member]
1/16/2012 8:26:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
As far as accurace

Lwrci followed by pws imo

Ive seen lerc hit .5 and pws hit .8 moa


Ever see an AA hit .681 moa? With Russian surplus.



Checkout the awesome accuracy nutnfancy was getting from his LWRC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pM54oGTSv0 Skip to the 30 minute mark and you'll see groups ranging from .50" to 3" and almost all the good groups were with expensive match ammo(Federal Gold medal match, etc)... With normal ammo the groups weren't so great... That's just one example but I've seen plenty of guys getting both great and mediocre groups with LWRC's.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 8:29:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
As far as accurace

Lwrci followed by pws imo

Ive seen lerc hit .5 and pws hit .8 moa


Ever see an AA hit .681 moa? With Russian surplus.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/162/545100ydnov.jpg

Checkout the awesome accuracy nutnfancy was getting from his LWRC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pM54oGTSv0 Skip to the 30 minute mark and you'll see groups ranging from .50" to 3" and almost all the good groups were with expensive match ammo(Federal Gold medal match, etc)... With normal ammo the groups weren't so great... That's just one example but I've seen plenty of guys getting both great and mediocre groups with LWRC's.


im not sure how you got .6moa with russian surplus its basically defies the laws of physics, since you know molon couldnt even get close to that using a mechanical rest

also nutnfancy isnt held to very high regard here
kubitza1234  [Member]
1/16/2012 8:58:55 AM EST
So would you guys build one or buy one ready such as the JP CTR-O2? If building one who makes best billet uppers and lowers ? Black rain , JP, POF or? Also who makes best internals and barrels . Not against building one I just want to make sure its a shoot with good ammo when done. I usually shoot Hornady ballstic tip ammo. Thanks for the info so far.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 9:01:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By kubitza1234:
So would you guys build one or buy one ready such as the JP CTR-O2? If building one who makes best billet uppers and lowers ? Black rain , JP, POF or? Also who makes best internals and barrels . Not against building one I just want to make sure its a shoot with good ammo when done. I usually shoot Hornady ballstic tip ammo. Thanks for the info so far.


if you want the best imo thats PWS and LWRCI
Rickymachinegun  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 9:02:28 AM EST
POF use rock creek barrels and there are super accurate

LWRC barrels are regarded as some of the best barrels available

Lots of great choices
RUTGERS95  [Member]
1/16/2012 9:18:31 AM EST
my lwrc a2 in 6.8 is .5moa all day every day and my a3 is at moa but with xtac 62gr it's .75moa. one nice thing, they both eat whatever I give them.

I have to say, the bear is really peaking my interest however
KILLERB6  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 9:32:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By d90king:
LWRCI makes a very accurate piston AR. My A3 was a MOA rifle.


This.

To which I will add get the rifle that has the features/price you are looking for; ammo is the biggest contributor/detractor to accuracy.


After the shooter.



sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 9:33:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By d90king:
LWRCI makes a very accurate piston AR. My A3 was a MOA rifle.


This.

To which I will add get the rifle that has the features/price you are looking for; ammo is the biggest contributor/detractor to accuracy.


After the shooter.





according to zulthor ammo doesnt matter since wolf is .6moa at 100yrds
zulthor  [Member]
1/16/2012 9:45:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
im not sure how you got .6moa with russian surplus its basically defies the laws of physics, since you know molon couldnt even get close to that using a mechanical rest

also nutnfancy isnt held to very high regard here


I was looking at molon's collected posts and I didn't see any testing of 5.45 russian surplus, any 5.45 or any adams arms upper for that matter....if he posted it someplace else I'd love to see his testing, please post a link to it.

RUTGERS95  [Member]
1/16/2012 9:55:19 AM EST
definitely the shooter!

I wish I could shoot as well as my rifles:)
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 9:56:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
im not sure how you got .6moa with russian surplus its basically defies the laws of physics, since you know molon couldnt even get close to that using a mechanical rest

also nutnfancy isnt held to very high regard here


I was looking at molon's collected posts and I didn't see any testing of 5.45 russian surplus, any 5.45 or any adams arms upper for that matter....if he posted it someplace else I'd love to see his testing, please post a link to it.



see you shoulda said that, im sitting here thinking russian 5.56.
zulthor  [Member]
1/16/2012 10:00:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
im not sure how you got .6moa with russian surplus its basically defies the laws of physics, since you know molon couldnt even get close to that using a mechanical rest

also nutnfancy isnt held to very high regard here


I was looking at molon's collected posts and I didn't see any testing of 5.45 russian surplus, any 5.45 or any adams arms upper for that matter....if he posted it someplace else I'd love to see his testing, please post a link to it.



see you shoulda said that, im sitting here thinking russian 5.56.


I said russian surplus. There is no such thing as 5.56 russian surplus...at least that I am aware of.
MallNinjaMan  [Member]
1/16/2012 10:19:46 AM EST
What makes the rifle accurate is the barrel quality ... Get a walther Lothar barrel
kubitza1234  [Member]
1/16/2012 12:12:15 PM EST
Well i guess i should say by accurate with good ammo imo is 1/2" or better groups at a 100yrds. I currently own a custom Accuracy Systems International mini-14 in .204 ruger and it shoots under 1/2" and cost alil under 2k. So i expect any AR15 thats $2k plus to do the same or better. If it won't i'll just have another mini built by them.

RUTGERS95  [Member]
1/16/2012 12:20:58 PM EST
first, how are people measuring their moa's?

I shoot 3 5shot groups at 100. This I believe is the minimum a rifle should be measured at.

that's a nice mini by the way, real nice.....
turb06le240  [Member]
1/16/2012 2:10:49 PM EST
sick mini there, stick with what you like... Build another mini..
marko16  [Member]
1/16/2012 2:29:42 PM EST




Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
As far as accurace

Lwrci followed by pws imo

Ive seen lerc hit .5 and pws hit .8 moa


Ever see an AA hit .681 moa? With Russian surplus.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/162/545100ydnov.jpg

Checkout the awesome accuracy nutnfancy was getting from his LWRC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pM54oGTSv0 Skip to the 30 minute mark and you'll see groups ranging from .50" to 3" and almost all the good groups were with expensive match ammo(Federal Gold medal match, etc)... With normal ammo the groups weren't so great... That's just one example but I've seen plenty of guys getting both great and mediocre groups with LWRC's.


im not sure how you got .6moa with russian surplus its basically defies the laws of physics, since you know molon couldnt even get close to that using a mechanical rest

also nutnfancy isnt held to very high regard here


Actually there is the wolf ammo test thread and he did get a sub MOA with wolf. It was a 3 rd pick, but all ten rounds were 3-4in. It can happen, just don't count on it.

sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 4:01:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By marko16:




Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
As far as accurace

Lwrci followed by pws imo

Ive seen lerc hit .5 and pws hit .8 moa


Ever see an AA hit .681 moa? With Russian surplus.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/162/545100ydnov.jpg

Checkout the awesome accuracy nutnfancy was getting from his LWRC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pM54oGTSv0 Skip to the 30 minute mark and you'll see groups ranging from .50" to 3" and almost all the good groups were with expensive match ammo(Federal Gold medal match, etc)... With normal ammo the groups weren't so great... That's just one example but I've seen plenty of guys getting both great and mediocre groups with LWRC's.


im not sure how you got .6moa with russian surplus its basically defies the laws of physics, since you know molon couldnt even get close to that using a mechanical rest

also nutnfancy isnt held to very high regard here


Actually there is the wolf ammo test thread and he did get a sub MOA with wolf. It was a 3 rd pick, but all ten rounds were 3-4in. It can happen, just don't count on it.



Thats also a great example of why most consider a 5 shot group the min and a 10 shot group the ideal
Tire  [Member]
1/16/2012 6:11:46 PM EST
10 10 shot groups.. lets see that.
just beacuse you have shot ONE 5 shot group under and inch means shit. I shoot those consistently in a nice bolt rifle.. but i still consider it a 1 moa rifle becasue it or I cant do it EVERY single time.
Sleeper396  [Member]
1/16/2012 6:30:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tire:
10 10 shot groups.. lets see that.
just beacuse you have shot ONE 5 shot group under and inch means shit. I shoot those consistently in a nice bolt rifle.. but i still consider it a 1 moa rifle becasue it or I cant do it EVERY single time.
How about we do 20 20 shot groups or 40 40 shot groups while we are at it? Honestly a couple of 5 shot shot groups is all you need to judge accuracy. People go overboard when trying to judge accuracy.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 6:37:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sleeper396:
Originally Posted By Tire:
10 10 shot groups.. lets see that.
just beacuse you have shot ONE 5 shot group under and inch means shit. I shoot those consistently in a nice bolt rifle.. but i still consider it a 1 moa rifle becasue it or I cant do it EVERY single time.
How about we do 20 20 shot groups or 40 40 shot groups while we are at it? Honestly a couple of 5 shot shot groups is all you need to judge accuracy. People go overboard when trying to judge accuracy.


you actually should do 10-5shot groups and get the avg of all 10 groups
The_Evil_One  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 7:05:20 PM EST
In Army BRM your expected to hit and kill targets at 300 meters with iron sights. So you'll excuse me if I don't bat an eye at the fact you can make a shot group the size of a quarter at 100 yards with a scope with I can only guess how much time in between shots. Sure I get the bragging rights or whatever it is you are going for but in my eyes it's bullshit because the only thing that matters is hitting and killing your target.

You aren't some delta operator trying to make a vital shot to free a hostage or some scout sniper trying to get that one shot kill. I've just wanted to say this for a while so please do understand why I'm not too impressed because it is not something you will need to worry about unless your LEO, military, or some competitor.

Most hits from my experience in BRM come from the 100 - 150m mark. This is all done with irons. Not some high power scope.

As I said sorry if I offended anyone but this is just my view and personal opinion on this whole accuracy thing. Please take it as that and no I'm not some Jack Bauer who can shoot you in the heart with a pistol at 100m's with one hand but to me all this fancy crap just makes it too easy in my eyes especially when there is no stress involved. Boy when you put limited exposure targets in there watch your shot group go to shit.

Just something I feel I needed to vent. Please though if you can try it with irons or put some distance on those shots if you can. I would love to see someone rub my face in the mud. I really can't put anything up as I'm not exactly at my home and don't have my rifle out here where I am and no it won't be coming to me for the time I can see so don't ask.

Please do keep in mind the kind of shooting I do is different and this is just my opinion on this matter as I said before that I feel I needed to let out.

Please don't hurt me.
Blackwind  [Team Member]
1/16/2012 7:07:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By kubitza1234:
So would you guys build one or buy one ready such as the JP CTR-O2? If building one who makes best billet uppers and lowers ? Black rain , JP, POF or? Also who makes best internals and barrels . Not against building one I just want to make sure its a shoot with good ammo when done. I usually shoot Hornady ballstic tip ammo. Thanks for the info so far.


if you want the best imo thats PWS and LWRCI


Edvvard  [Member]
1/16/2012 7:18:25 PM EST
I'll get crap for this, but can an AA piston be used with an LMT MRP upper?
Rickymachinegun  [Team Member]
1/17/2012 11:56:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
In Army BRM your expected to hit and kill targets at 300 meters with iron sights. So you'll excuse me if I don't bat an eye at the fact you can make a shot group the size of a quarter at 100 yards with a scope with I can only guess how much time in between shots. Sure I get the bragging rights or whatever it is you are going for but in my eyes it's bullshit because the only thing that matters is hitting and killing your target.

You aren't some delta operator trying to make a vital shot to free a hostage or some scout sniper trying to get that one shot kill. I've just wanted to say this for a while so please do understand why I'm not too impressed because it is not something you will need to worry about unless your LEO, military, or some competitor.

Most hits from my experience in BRM come from the 100 - 150m mark. This is all done with irons. Not some high power scope.

As I said sorry if I offended anyone but this is just my view and personal opinion on this whole accuracy thing. Please take it as that and no I'm not some Jack Bauer who can shoot you in the heart with a pistol at 100m's with one hand but to me all this fancy crap just makes it too easy in my eyes especially when there is no stress involved. Boy when you put limited exposure targets in there watch your shot group go to shit.

Just something I feel I needed to vent. Please though if you can try it with irons or put some distance on those shots if you can. I would love to see someone rub my face in the mud. I really can't put anything up as I'm not exactly at my home and don't have my rifle out here where I am and no it won't be coming to me for the time I can see so don't ask.

Please do keep in mind the kind of shooting I do is different and this is just my opinion on this matter as I said before that I feel I needed to let out.

Please don't hurt me.


I agree with you for the most part but some of us don't just use our AR for smokin bad guys. Alot of people use their AR for other reasons ie target shooting (shooting pin point makes it more fun to accomplish this), coyote hunting, prairie doggin/ground hoggin, home defense, SHTF and just range shooting in general.

I rather enjoy being able to shoot nice tight groups when I bench my M6A3. just sayin


shade_1313  [Life Member]
1/17/2012 4:29:42 PM EST
The forthcoming LWRC M6IC looks to be amazing, in terms of accuracy, tweaks to reliability, and a slight change to the gas venting from the piston/gas block.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/17/2012 4:48:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
The forthcoming LWRC M6IC looks to be amazing, in terms of accuracy, tweaks to reliability, and a slight change to the gas venting from the piston/gas block.


it should have won the IC program but its a conspiracy!!! well thats what the latest shooting time says
RUTGERS95  [Member]
1/17/2012 4:50:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
The forthcoming LWRC M6IC looks to be amazing, in terms of accuracy, tweaks to reliability, and a slight change to the gas venting from the piston/gas block.


it really is.....wow
shade_1313  [Life Member]
1/17/2012 4:51:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
The forthcoming LWRC M6IC looks to be amazing, in terms of accuracy, tweaks to reliability, and a slight change to the gas venting from the piston/gas block.


it should have won the IC program but its a conspiracy!!! well thats what the latest shooting time says

I know, I picket that issue up this morning.

I wish I knew just how the solicitation was amended, but either way, I like the sound of the new features the IC has.
The_Evil_One  [Team Member]
1/17/2012 5:50:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rickymachinegun:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
In Army BRM your expected to hit and kill targets at 300 meters with iron sights. So you'll excuse me if I don't bat an eye at the fact you can make a shot group the size of a quarter at 100 yards with a scope with I can only guess how much time in between shots. Sure I get the bragging rights or whatever it is you are going for but in my eyes it's bullshit because the only thing that matters is hitting and killing your target.

You aren't some delta operator trying to make a vital shot to free a hostage or some scout sniper trying to get that one shot kill. I've just wanted to say this for a while so please do understand why I'm not too impressed because it is not something you will need to worry about unless your LEO, military, or some competitor.

Most hits from my experience in BRM come from the 100 - 150m mark. This is all done with irons. Not some high power scope.

As I said sorry if I offended anyone but this is just my view and personal opinion on this whole accuracy thing. Please take it as that and no I'm not some Jack Bauer who can shoot you in the heart with a pistol at 100m's with one hand but to me all this fancy crap just makes it too easy in my eyes especially when there is no stress involved. Boy when you put limited exposure targets in there watch your shot group go to shit.

Just something I feel I needed to vent. Please though if you can try it with irons or put some distance on those shots if you can. I would love to see someone rub my face in the mud. I really can't put anything up as I'm not exactly at my home and don't have my rifle out here where I am and no it won't be coming to me for the time I can see so don't ask.

Please do keep in mind the kind of shooting I do is different and this is just my opinion on this matter as I said before that I feel I needed to let out.

Please don't hurt me.


I agree with you for the most part but some of us don't just use our AR for smokin bad guys. Alot of people use their AR for other reasons ie target shooting (shooting pin point makes it more fun to accomplish this), coyote hunting, prairie doggin/ground hoggin, home defense, SHTF and just range shooting in general.

I rather enjoy being able to shoot nice tight groups when I bench my M6A3. just sayin




On the flip side of the coin my own AR is used for most of those things you mentioned. I fucking wish I could smoke bad guys with it because no offense but any rifle the army gives me has nothing on mine.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/17/2012 6:09:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By shade_1313:

Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
The forthcoming LWRC M6IC looks to be amazing, in terms of accuracy, tweaks to reliability, and a slight change to the gas venting from the piston/gas block.


it should have won the IC program but its a conspiracy!!! well thats what the latest shooting time says

I know, I picket that issue up this morning.

I wish I knew just how the solicitation was amended, but either way, I like the sound of the new features the IC has.


the IC does have awesome features, but that shooting times article was pathetic. it read like a paid advertisement from a butt hurt LWRCI
kubitza1234  [Member]
1/18/2012 3:53:11 AM EST
Yes this gun will be used for mainly varmint hunting such as prairie dogs,coyote,targets etc etc so yes accuracy is a must. Also no its nothing special to have a good scope and accurate gun and shoot a tight group at a 100yrds. But if a mini-14 can be modded to for under 2k a 2-3k AR-15 damn sure better or i would be very pissed.
45-Seventy  [Member]
1/18/2012 5:02:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By Edvvard:
I'll get crap for this, but can an AA piston be used with an LMT MRP upper?


I don't believe so, but I could be wrong. However, with an MRP upper you'd be able to drop in an LMT piston barrel and BCG for something like 6 and a half.
mouthpiece  [Member]
1/18/2012 5:15:20 AM EST
I'd rather start out with an accurate platform, not have to build into accuracy.

I'd stay away from AA.
I asked several times about what materials they were making their products out of and they never would answer me.
At the time i was researching piston systems they did not have materialmspecs on their website either.
He offered to let me shoot one of his rifles at some shoot in Missouri if i recall, but never did answer to the specs of their products.
Kappax1  [Member]
1/18/2012 8:26:18 AM EST
lwrc, buy many, be happy
LA_357SIG  [Team Member]
1/19/2012 7:13:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
In Army BRM your expected to hit and kill targets at 300 meters with iron sights. So you'll excuse me if I don't bat an eye at the fact you can make a shot group the size of a quarter at 100 yards with a scope with I can only guess how much time in between shots.
<snip>
As I said sorry if I offended anyone but this is just my view and personal opinion on this whole accuracy thing.
<snip>
Please do keep in mind the kind of shooting I do is different and this is just my opinion on this matter as I said before that I feel I needed to let out.

Please don't hurt me.


There is a big difference between testing the accuracy potential of the shooter and the accuracy potential of the rifle. There is also a direct relationship between the two. How can you (the shooter) determine your ability if the weapon you are shooting is not capable of being accurate?

Anyway, I agree completely and would like to repost my old sigline in support.
"The fullsize A2 with a 20 inch barrel is the end of a long historical line of weaponry where the shooter was a real rifleman and not just some guy popping off rounds at 25 yards while looking through a magic looking glass." - JBnTX
Sleeper396  [Member]
1/19/2012 1:00:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
In Army BRM your expected to hit and kill targets at 300 meters with iron sights. So you'll excuse me if I don't bat an eye at the fact you can make a shot group the size of a quarter at 100 yards with a scope with I can only guess how much time in between shots.
<snip>
As I said sorry if I offended anyone but this is just my view and personal opinion on this whole accuracy thing.
<snip>
Please do keep in mind the kind of shooting I do is different and this is just my opinion on this matter as I said before that I feel I needed to let out.

Please don't hurt me.


There is a big difference between testing the accuracy potential of the shooter and the accuracy potential of the rifle. There is also a direct relationship between the two. How can you (the shooter) determine your ability if the weapon you are shooting is not capable of being accurate?

Anyway, I agree completely and would like to repost my old sigline in support.
"The fullsize A2 with a 20 inch barrel is the end of a long historical line of weaponry where the shooter was a real rifleman and not just some guy popping off rounds at 25 yards while looking through a magic looking glass." - JBnTX

I am so happy I learned how to shoot during that time. Everyone wants to look through the crystal ball, tech has replaced skill, but it will come back around. Mark my words, the rifleman will be king again one day. Nowadays you tell people that you shot 10 for 10 at 500 yards with iron sights they either discredit you and try to say that its easy or they actually give you respect. Whichever the case I know I have crossed keys that say I scored expert every time I qualified and no one will take that away from me. 500 yards with an ACOG is child's play for me anymore. I can truly say I am limited by my gear and not my skill. Every Marine a rifleman.
45-Seventy  [Member]
1/20/2012 1:29:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sleeper396:
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
In Army BRM your expected to hit and kill targets at 300 meters with iron sights. So you'll excuse me if I don't bat an eye at the fact you can make a shot group the size of a quarter at 100 yards with a scope with I can only guess how much time in between shots.
<snip>
As I said sorry if I offended anyone but this is just my view and personal opinion on this whole accuracy thing.
<snip>
Please do keep in mind the kind of shooting I do is different and this is just my opinion on this matter as I said before that I feel I needed to let out.

Please don't hurt me.


There is a big difference between testing the accuracy potential of the shooter and the accuracy potential of the rifle. There is also a direct relationship between the two. How can you (the shooter) determine your ability if the weapon you are shooting is not capable of being accurate?

Anyway, I agree completely and would like to repost my old sigline in support.
"The fullsize A2 with a 20 inch barrel is the end of a long historical line of weaponry where the shooter was a real rifleman and not just some guy popping off rounds at 25 yards while looking through a magic looking glass." - JBnTX

I am so happy I learned how to shoot during that time. Everyone wants to look through the crystal ball, tech has replaced skill, but it will come back around. Mark my words, the rifleman will be king again one day. Nowadays you tell people that you shot 10 for 10 at 500 yards with iron sights they either discredit you and try to say that its easy or they actually give you respect. Whichever the case I know I have crossed keys that say I scored expert every time I qualified and no one will take that away from me. 500 yards with an ACOG is child's play for me anymore. I can truly say I am limited by my gear and not my skill. Every Marine a rifleman.


Amen, brother.
semperserveranceSTA  [Member]
1/20/2012 9:24:00 PM EST
Stag Model 8 Plus Package has given me .44 moa. through a Trijicon TR24G 1-4x optic. Stag has 100% lifetime guarantee. They have great CS and treat their customers with the highest respect. Add in a POF cam pin and a free float rail and send those 70 gr. TSXBT down range. Wish I had this rifle in Iraq. It's my favorite among what I own. Don't spend 2500 for a name. I have before and I get all I want for alot less cash.
socal-prince  [Member]
1/21/2012 2:17:44 AM EST
My LWRC M6A2 is accurate and reliable as hell. Eats anything I feed it and no malfunctions after 2k rounds yet. It's the best AR I own and it won't be my last LWRC. I'm on my phone so I cant post pics but I posted my shot group on another thread. Follow link below...


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_126/560236_How_accurate_LWRC_556.html&page=1#i5363474
semperserveranceSTA  [Member]
1/21/2012 7:51:08 AM EST
Yah I'm pickin up what your layin down man. I was an 03 until I finally got 8541. It's something that's lives within you. The fundamentals are part of my muscle, mind, and my heart. The reason I'm here now is I was better than the other man time and time again. Even with a severe brain injury when I go to the parish sherrifs dept. swat training center I am watched and listened too. All the dodads and watchamadoodles can make a bad shot decent. It won't make a good shooter great. That comes from all those cold range days and having the best teachers in the business building you into a COMPLETE weapon system.
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