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 What's your choice Adams Arms or Osprey Defense?
bern31  [Member]
9/26/2010 7:08:54 PM
What's your personal option on Adams Arms or Osprey Defense? For a conversion gas piston kit. If you have both give me your feed back on each one. Both are diiferent kits. But is one better then the other or both great and just matter of taste?
urbanredneck  [Member]
9/26/2010 7:41:55 PM
bump
derrick  [Member]
9/26/2010 8:58:31 PM
I only have experience with the osprey kit. It is simple, and works flawlessly. After getting the osprey, I have no reason to try any other, because the osprey kicks ass.
TOMR67  [Member]
9/27/2010 4:09:14 PM
I have the ops and think it is great, no springs to break, no adjustments, great customer support
545Fan  [Member]
9/27/2010 9:45:16 PM
Go with the Osprey kit; you won't regret it. The kit is very simple with no adjustments needed and it plain works.

I love mine and wouldn't trade it.
imortal  [Team Member]
9/27/2010 11:20:31 PM
Personally, I love my Adams Arms kit.
Fruity_Pebbles  [Member]
9/28/2010 4:46:15 AM
The Osprey is the end-all, be-all of gas pistons kits if there ever was one. They got it right. Go with the sure thing, get the Osprey Defense kit.
19Charlie_84  [Member]
9/28/2010 8:28:26 AM
I have both. My Adams kit is on a 16" carbine and works just fine. At first i had some cam pin wear but I threw in a POF roller cam, solved. Not much carrier tilt that I can see thus far. As for my Osprey, I put it on a mid length 14.5" 6.8SPC under a Badger Ordnance rifle length float tube. I had to modify the op rod to clear the barrel nut and it short stroked. I dont know if it was due to the handloads being under powered (25.5gr Varget, 115gr FMJ) but it being 6.8 it should have enough oomph to cycle it. I posted in this forum and the tech from Osprey mailed me two larger size pistons to try. I installed the biggest one but never got a chance to shoot it as I had to make a little trip to Iraq. Once I get back I will get it working, using factory ammo so I can eliminate that variable. I also put a POF roller cam in the osprey to eliminate that. I like Ospreys one piece carrier instead of my Adams aftermarket gas key replacement piece.

They both are good designs, the Osprey allows for a lower profile; you cant see mine at all under the handguard. The Adams has a setting for suppressed firing, I dont know how the Osprey holds up, I will sure find out once I get back as well.
harrymp5  [Member]
9/28/2010 8:41:04 AM
+ 1 on Adams Arms, got 1 about 6 months ago, SBR it, runs great. Happy customer.
derrick  [Member]
9/28/2010 1:31:49 PM
Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84:
I have both. My Adams kit is on a 16" carbine and works just fine. At first i had some cam pin wear but I threw in a POF roller cam, solved. Not much carrier tilt that I can see thus far. As for my Osprey, I put it on a mid length 14.5" 6.8SPC under a Badger Ordnance rifle length float tube. I had to modify the op rod to clear the barrel nut and it short stroked. I dont know if it was due to the handloads being under powered (25.5gr Varget, 115gr FMJ) but it being 6.8 it should have enough oomph to cycle it. I posted in this forum and the tech from Osprey mailed me two larger size pistons to try. I installed the biggest one but never got a chance to shoot it as I had to make a little trip to Iraq. Once I get back I will get it working, using factory ammo so I can eliminate that variable. I also put a POF roller cam in the osprey to eliminate that. I like Ospreys one piece carrier instead of my Adams aftermarket gas key replacement piece.

They both are good designs, the Osprey allows for a lower profile; you cant see mine at all under the handguard. The Adams has a setting for suppressed firing, I dont know how the Osprey holds up, I will sure find out once I get back as well.


The osprey runs fine suppressed full auto. I wonder how many rounds the spring on the adams is good for? Also the osprey doesnt need any adjusting. After around 4,000 on my osprey its still like brand new, not even a sign of corrosion. The gas key replacement on the adams will eventually shear right off the bolt carrier. Thats one of the most common problems I have been reading about. The osprey doesn't tilt either. Its a class above the adams for sure.

SilentDeath12886  [Member]
9/28/2010 2:41:27 PM
Originally Posted By derrick:
The gas key replacement on the adams will eventually shear right off the bolt carrier. Thats one of the most common problems I have been reading about.


AA kits now come with a 1-piece carrier. No more replacing the gas key.

I was able to test fire my AA kit today with no issues. 10.5" Noveske barrel .085" gas port, Rem UMC, PMC, and Winchester 5.56 with 2-4 o'clock ejection.
derrick  [Member]
9/28/2010 3:03:58 PM
Originally Posted By SilentDeath12886:
Originally Posted By derrick:
The gas key replacement on the adams will eventually shear right off the bolt carrier. Thats one of the most common problems I have been reading about.


AA kits now come with a 1-piece carrier. No more replacing the gas key.

I was able to test fire my AA kit today with no issues. 10.5" Noveske barrel .085" gas port, Rem UMC, PMC, and Winchester 5.56 with 2-4 o'clock ejection.


That's good news.. My biggest reason for not messing with AA was the key replacement, and tilt.

1MRBEAN  [Member]
9/28/2010 4:24:42 PM
Well i think the AA kit gets a pretty good endorsement in the fact that it is used by Sabre Defence, Smith @ Wesson and Spikes for use in their rifles .
derrick  [Member]
9/28/2010 6:45:10 PM
I think the fact there is a spring, and adjustment valves makes it a little more complicated than the osprey. If you want a simple piston that does what it's susposed to do without having to adjust anything, or replace worn out springs, go with osprey. As posted above by Fruity_pebbles the osprey is the end all when it comes to piston kits. Just watch the torture vidoes on www.gaspiston.com the osprey is in a class of its own.
TNRonin  [Member]
9/28/2010 7:06:00 PM
Derrick, I think we determined the spring on the op rod is there to keep it from rattling like the osprey. LOL

People including myself have operated our AA w/o the op rod spring. And regarding the setting, gosh I don't know what to say about that, I didn't think it was all THAT hard to press the detent and turn it a fraction clockwise. I guess whatever it takes to justify the purchase.

We've discussed this before. My brother put an Osprey on his SW AR, I put an AA on my Colt. I did the AA merely because I had a DD rail and didn't want to have to dick with replacing it. IMHO if you don't plan on running a railed HG on your gun you could go Osprey. I like that my AA does not vent carbon into the HG but forward. I also appreciated the fit and finish of the AA. And FWIW I suggested the Osprey system to my brother since he would not have to change out the FS so I have no axe to grind against Osprey. And regarding cam wear, I had cam wear BEFORE I installed the AA kit. Cam wear occurs if you MANUALLY cycle the gun for reloads, failures, etc. Which if you are training and not an armchair commando you should be doing anyway.
derrick  [Member]
9/28/2010 7:20:58 PM
Originally Posted By TNRonin:
Derrick, I think we determined the spring on the op rod is there to keep it from rattling like the osprey. LOL

People including myself have operated our AA w/o the op rod spring. And regarding the setting, gosh I don't know what to say about that, I didn't think it was all THAT hard to press the detent and turn it a fraction clockwise. I guess whatever it takes to justify the purchase.

We've discussed this before. My brother put an Osprey on his SW AR, I put an AA on my Colt. I did the AA merely because I had a DD rail and didn't want to have to dick with replacing it. IMHO if you don't plan on running a railed HG on your gun you could go Osprey. I like that my AA does not vent carbon into the HG but forward. I also appreciated the fit and finish of the AA. And FWIW I suggested the Osprey system to my brother since he would not have to change out the FS so I have no axe to grind against Osprey. And regarding cam wear, I had cam wear BEFORE I installed the AA kit. Cam wear occurs if you MANUALLY cycle the gun for reloads, failures, etc. Which if you are training and not an armchair commando you should be doing anyway.




Yeah if you walk around with your bolt open, and tilt your gun up and down you can hear the piston "rattle" . But when the bolt is closed there is no way for it to "rattle" You may have had cam wear, but the multiple other posters didn't. My opinion doesn't matter, I'll keep buying ospreys you buy aa with the spring and valve. Doesn't affect me one bit.
FAL  [Team Member]
9/28/2010 7:50:52 PM
I have the osprey and like it...installation was quick and easy, and I've had no function issues with it. Never tried the AA, but I have no reason to after installing the Osprey...they got it right IMHO.
Fruity_Pebbles  [Member]
9/28/2010 9:44:04 PM
I actually intend to find a way to use the Osprey kit AND railed handguards on my next build. The Osprey kit is a fantastic piece of work, but at the same time I prefer rails to plastic handguards. On my next AR build I am using the DD rails and I will grind away as much rail from inside as necessary to fit the gas piston. Having the Osprey is worth the effort
derrick  [Member]
9/28/2010 9:51:26 PM
Originally Posted By Fruity_Pebbles:
I actually intend to find a way to use the Osprey kit AND railed handguards on my next build. The Osprey kit is a fantastic piece of work, but I the same time I prefer rails to plastic handguards. On my next AR build I am using the DD rails and I will grind away as much rail from inside as necessary to fit the gas piston. Having the Osprey is worth the effort


people run the osprey with rails. Midwest industries I think. I like the m4 chubbys and shoot tons of corrosive ammo, so the plastic works well for me. I don't use a vert grip, as I naturally grab the magwell when I am shooting with one anyway. If one intended on rails for anything other than optics the moe handguards modified a little, would be perfect.

IMHO
bern31  [Member]
9/28/2010 9:59:37 PM
Osprey came out with Fail Zero nickel boron coating. It's better then the standard kit.
derrick  [Member]
9/28/2010 10:40:51 PM






























Can the fz kits be found anywhere but osprey's website? I see the standard kits on midway, but not the fz. I am fixing to buy one, midway is cheaper, and osprey registers the warranty no problem. I'd rather buy the fz













i\
Fruity_Pebbles  [Member]
9/29/2010 5:36:49 AM
What is the benefit of the FailZero coating?
bern31  [Member]
9/29/2010 11:14:08 AM
I just became a dealer of Osprey Defense. Call me if you want one with the fail zero coating. 954-467-1988. Also the advantage is with the coating you just wipe it off with a rag, and runs smoother in the receiver.
Gunrinwa  [Member]
9/29/2010 12:36:57 PM
Osprey.......Now all you Osprey owners start asking DD and Larue to make some rail solutions for it.
Blivalbloval  [Member]
9/29/2010 9:25:51 PM


I prefer the solid railed block, design and features of the Adams system for my needs. It's the more versatile between the two for me. If I was set on using a standard front sight base though than Osprey seems the obvious choice. Since I'm not though there's nothing about Osprey's system that would make me choose it otherwise while I do find it quality designed and made.




skyungjae  [Member]
9/29/2010 10:33:31 PM
I have yet to try the Osprey, but I currently own two AR's with the AA kit. I've installed about 10 of them for other people, and I've seen the small changes over time. Everyone that has one seems to love it. Likewise, everyone that has an Osprey loves theirs too. In all honesty, it really depends on what you're looking for in a piston AR. I love the front accessible piston design for ease of maintenance and cleaning. It's not necessary, but I'm the type of guy who likes to clean every part of his gun after each range outing. AA just makes it easier. As people have mentioned, the AA does work fine without the drive rod spring, and the one piece carrier has done away with the tilt. Neither kit requires any parts (including that spring) to be replaced over time.

From what I've seen on this forum, the general discussion that splits the two mostly revolves around whether someone wants to keep their current FSB/gas block or not. That may not be the reason why any of you went with either system, but that seems to be the tipping point for a lot of the threads I've come across regarding retrofits. I really do not like how Osprey won't ship their FA carrier kits to CA. That's pretty much what's stopping me from converting my last DI AR to piston. Not the best reason since I don't shoot FA anyway, but just the idea pisses me off. Though I am thinking of picking up an Osprey for my sister's M4gery.

In the end, I do believe it is matter of taste/personal preference. People value different aspects of their kits and rifles. Might as well argue turbos versus superchargers. This is not intended to be a neutral let's all be friend's answer. I'm obviously more biased on the AA side, and that's what I recommend. Unless, of course, you want to keep your current FSB. If that's the case, go Osprey over Bushmaster/Ares.
TNRonin  [Member]
9/30/2010 8:19:24 AM

Originally Posted By derrick:
You may have had cam wear, but the multiple other posters didn't notice

Fixed it for you.

There was a poster that asked the very same question about cam wear. I mentioned that mine had it before. He went to his dept weapons rack and inspected the DI guns on the rack. He reported that the DI guns on the rack had cam pin wear as well.

The spring is just a FEATURE on the AA, it is not required for the kit to function. Like I said I have no ax to grind against Osprey, I just think touting the features of Osprey as being superior is wrong. I guess whatever it takes to justify the purchase. And FWIW AGAIN if I could have used my GB I would have went Osprey. I'm glad I didn't in retrospect, but that is life.
Avtomat32  [Member]
9/30/2010 8:49:17 AM
I installed a CMMG conversion on my M16 and it runs like a raped ape, zero issues!
I also own a POF, LWRC, and Bushmaster piston conversion.
jkingrph  [Member]
10/3/2010 2:59:01 PM
I've got both and like both. The Adams was great for a new build where I wanted a railed gas block infront of a rail forearm. The Osprey where I wanted to retain the standard front sight.

The both work equally well, I do like the way the Adams comes apart for cleaning, and so far as the spring, it will run just fine without it. Valves as some call them, or different gas port sizes to the piston are not complicated and operate by a spring loaded detent which is absolutly positive, Either full power, closed or reduced power positions, nothing complicated. Closed makes the rifle a single shot, no options there. I have no neede for the three positions but nothing wrong with it. Maybe they shoulc make a reduced cost model without the positions, but it's just a quarter turn on the removable "piston" part;

It all boils down to what you want.
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/3/2010 4:37:02 PM
When using a free float quad rail I assume that you have to remove a free float forearm or the gas block in order to clean the Osprey?
brotherzoo  [Team Member]
10/3/2010 10:57:52 PM
Anyone got any details on the Osprey "FZ"...? The website is pretty lean on info. I assume the bolt carrier is plated with it?
jkingrph  [Member]
10/4/2010 4:13:59 PM
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
When using a free float quad rail I assume that you have to remove a free float forearm or the gas block in order to clean the Osprey?


Yes you need to remove the forearm to clean the Osprey . I don't know if repeated removal of the gas block, driving out taper pins would be a good idea

The operatiing/piston rod on the Osprey is two piece with a retaining clip to hold the pieces together and in my opinion not exactly fun to remove.

I really have not had mine long enough to need cleaning so have not addressed that much. I would probably just remove forearm, (mine are GI style forearms so no problem there), open reciever and remove bolt and then let piston go as far back as it will go and clean accesabale area. If it appears to need more which should be evident by binding of piston then I will address the clipl

The Adams is very easy to clean, everything comes out the front. sometimes I have to take a small diameter rod and push the operating rod out from the recieve as it is a close fit in the gas block, or slips slightly out of center when the part that locks in the gas block is removed, That part would best be described as a fixed non moving piston, the end of the operating rod as a moving cylinder that fits over the "piston" part. The same thing can be said about the Osprey piston-cylinder.
2F5shooter  [Member]
10/8/2010 3:02:11 AM
My 2 cents regarding the original question and a few other points made in this discussion.

I think your decision should be based on how you intend to build the rest of the gun.

I only have experience with the Adams Arms system but from what I gather the Osprey is just as good. IMO the AA kit would be better if you want to use a one-piece free-float HG because removal of the piston and op rod doesn't require handguard removal. On the other hand, the Osprey kit looks like it might weigh a few ounces less and will fit under most two-piece, non-FF handguard/rail without cutting them up.

My latest rifle has the AA kit and I like it but my next build will be a 14.5" mid-length and will mostly be an exercise in streamlining and weight reduction. Since the brake/fh will be pinned I will use a two-piece, clamp-on sight base for ease of removal/replacement. Instead of a FF handguard it will wear a Magpul mid-length MOE. For these reasons I'll be using an osprey system this time.

The only free-float handguards I can think of offhand that would be good to use with the Osprey system are the Troy MRF, DD Omega and Omega X, Or anything else that's two-piece and can be removed without any other disassembly of the weapon.

Since I'm not going to get a suppressor in the foreseeable future, the only use I would have for the AA's adjustable gas system would be the "off" position when using a .22 conversion kit.

As for the spring behind the bolt: Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this was added to compensate for the lack of expanding gasses which push the bolt forward within the carrier as the carrier itself is pushed rearward. I'm told that without this forward pressure on the bolt you will have abnormal wear issues not only with the cam pin but with the barrel extension and bolt lugs as well. I'm curious as to why Osprey system doesn't include one.

BTW: I see that Heavy Buffers now sells a line of buffers for piston guns that is supposed to help alleviate carrier tilt. Anybody here used one? Is it worth the few extra bucks or is it snake oil?
Black-Tiger  [Member]
10/8/2010 3:13:33 AM
No experience with any of them, but my local gun shop carries the AA kits; will give it a go and get that kit installed on my carbine.
ABNAK  [Team Member]
10/8/2010 2:19:42 PM
Originally Posted By 2F5shooter:
BTW: I see that Heavy Buffers now sells a line of buffers for piston guns that is supposed to help alleviate carrier tilt. Anybody here used one? Is it worth the few extra bucks or is it snake oil?


I have one for my Osprey conversion. Works fine, no carrier tilt. Just have to make sure you put it in a lower that does NOT have a sear block or you'll have to mill it out like I did. You'll need to pop both takedown pins and pull the upper forward a bit to clear the "nipple" on the buffer in order to field strip the rifle (seperate the upper from the lower). You won't be able to just "break it open" by using only the rear takedown pin. I have it down pat where I can pop both pins and have it apart in just about as fast a time as just breaking it open.

skyungjae  [Member]
10/8/2010 2:28:38 PM
Originally Posted By ABNAK:
Originally Posted By 2F5shooter:
BTW: I see that Heavy Buffers now sells a line of buffers for piston guns that is supposed to help alleviate carrier tilt. Anybody here used one? Is it worth the few extra bucks or is it snake oil?


I have one for my Osprey conversion. Works fine, no carrier tilt. Just have to make sure you put it in a lower that does NOT have a sear block or you'll have to mill it out like I did. You'll need to pop both takedown pins and pull the upper forward a bit to clear the "nipple" on the buffer in order to field strip the rifle (seperate the upper from the lower). You won't be able to just "break it open" by using only the rear takedown pin. I have it down pat where I can pop both pins and have it apart in just about as fast a time as just breaking it open.



I was under the impression that the Opsrey did not have an tilt issues.
derrick  [Member]
10/8/2010 2:35:26 PM
I have over 3,000 rounds through my osprey, with no tilt at all, same buffertube I've always had. I've always ran, a standard cam pin too, although I bought a couple pof rollers since im doing a new piston build. Should be here Monday.
skyungjae  [Member]
10/8/2010 2:49:25 PM
I've had good luck with my AA kits as well.
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/8/2010 9:27:02 PM
I'm debating which piston kit to use. Im leaning toward the Adams Arms because I want to install a free float handguard and the AA is removed from the front. ANyone have a freefloat with an Opsrey Kit?
sacmoose  [Member]
10/9/2010 12:17:55 AM
I only own AA piston rifles and have experience with osprey because a friend has one. I love AA rifles especially the factory uppers just got one and love it. I think osprey is cool just don't like the break down of handgaurds to clean. I don't mind the spring on the AA cuz All rifle and hand guns use springs so I don't see what that whole deal is with people talking about the springs in AA pistons. So my choice is AA cuz they have good I mean very good CS and Not a single problem with their product. The only gripe I have is I wish they had desert colored gas block. MY 2 cents hope it helps.
DaFuzz62  [Team Member]
10/9/2010 3:08:31 AM
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
I'm debating which piston kit to use. Im leaning toward the Adams Arms because I want to install a free float handguard and the AA is removed from the front. ANyone have a freefloat with an Opsrey Kit?


I have an Osprey kit in mine. 10.5" bbl, low profile gas block with Midwest midlength freefloat tube. I have a little over 4000+ rounds through mine with ZERO malfunctions. I just clean the gun like normal, wipe down the rail, etc. No need to completely disassemble to clean. I added a POF roller cam for shits & grins. Running standard buffer and not noticing any wear from carrier tilt. The gun was recently loaned to a firearms instructor for a carbine instructor class he took. Only gun in the class that didn't malfunction and break all week. Osprey is awesome!
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/9/2010 12:59:32 PM
I have an Osprey kit in mine. 10.5" bbl, low profile gas block with Midwest midlength freefloat tube. I have a little over 4000+ rounds through mine with ZERO malfunctions. I just clean the gun like normal, wipe down the rail, etc. No need to completely disassemble to clean. I added a POF roller cam for shits & grins. Running standard buffer and not noticing any wear from carrier tilt. The gun was recently loaned to a firearms instructor for a carbine instructor class he took. Only gun in the class that didn't malfunction and break all week. Osprey is awesome!


How often do you break it down and clean the piston? Does Osprey recommend cleaning after so many rounds?
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/9/2010 1:00:39 PM

Originally Posted By sacmoose:
The only gripe I have is I wish they had desert colored gas block. MY 2 cents hope it helps.


Paint it.
sacmoose  [Member]
10/9/2010 3:40:12 PM

Originally Posted By EdHaney1:

Originally Posted By sacmoose:
The only gripe I have is I wish they had desert colored gas block. MY 2 cents hope it helps.


Paint it.

I had a buddy who was our test dummy and he paited it i think with some kind of cheap paint and It smelled nasty when the block got hot and it started to flake. Maybe I'll try that dura coat.
ProfGAB101  [Team Member]
10/9/2010 4:41:59 PM
You need to look for Rustolium BBQ paint - its tough stuff and doesn't mind the heat.
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/9/2010 7:10:56 PM
I had a buddy who was our test dummy and he paited it i think with some kind of cheap paint and It smelled nasty when the block got hot and it started to flake. Maybe I'll try that dura coat.


Dura Coat should get it done..
ABNAK  [Team Member]
10/9/2010 8:20:48 PM
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
I had a buddy who was our test dummy and he paited it i think with some kind of cheap paint and It smelled nasty when the block got hot and it started to flake. Maybe I'll try that dura coat.


Dura Coat should get it done..


Dura Heat to be more specific, if it is for high-round count areas that would be subjected to extreme heat (barrels, gas blocks, etc.). IIRC that is the name of their line of those products. But yeah, good call on Dura Coat/Heat products.

blkdawg  [Member]
10/10/2010 12:54:10 AM
Adams Arms. Proven system.
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/10/2010 12:00:41 PM

Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
I have an Osprey kit in mine. 10.5" bbl, low profile gas block with Midwest midlength freefloat tube. I have a little over 4000+ rounds through mine with ZERO malfunctions. I just clean the gun like normal, wipe down the rail, etc. No need to completely disassemble to clean. I added a POF roller cam for shits & grins. Running standard buffer and not noticing any wear from carrier tilt. The gun was recently loaned to a firearms instructor for a carbine instructor class he took. Only gun in the class that didn't malfunction and break all week. Osprey is awesome!


How often do you break it down and clean the piston? Does Osprey recommend cleaning after so many rounds?


Bump!
DaFuzz62  [Team Member]
10/13/2010 7:26:36 PM
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
I have an Osprey kit in mine. 10.5" bbl, low profile gas block with Midwest midlength freefloat tube. I have a little over 4000+ rounds through mine with ZERO malfunctions. I just clean the gun like normal, wipe down the rail, etc. No need to completely disassemble to clean. I added a POF roller cam for shits & grins. Running standard buffer and not noticing any wear from carrier tilt. The gun was recently loaned to a firearms instructor for a carbine instructor class he took. Only gun in the class that didn't malfunction and break all week. Osprey is awesome!


How often do you break it down and clean the piston? Does Osprey recommend cleaning after so many rounds?


I don't think they have a cleaning recommendation. I have never torn it down to clean the piston, never had a need to. I will say this, it virtually eliminates the need to clean the bolt and carrier!
EdHaney1  [Member]
10/13/2010 8:59:10 PM


I don't think they have a cleaning recommendation. I have never torn it down to clean the piston, never had a need to. I will say this, it virtually eliminates the need to clean the bolt and carrier!
Little to no cleaning.. the horror