AR15.Com Archives
 What is the best gas piston?
JRRoden  [Member]
1/10/2010 8:44:23 PM
Guys I am looking to possibly buy a gas piston rifle for matches. I am just wondering which one is reliable and consitent.
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KevinCa316  [Member]
1/10/2010 9:16:55 PM
LMT, but then again im biased
KILLERB6  [Member]
1/10/2010 10:07:44 PM
LWRCi, but then I'm biased.
deadduck357  [Member]
1/11/2010 1:29:15 AM
SR-556
Lympago  [Member]
1/11/2010 1:38:47 AM


Tuned M1A in a usgi fiberglass.


FloridaOccifer  [Member]
1/11/2010 4:50:23 AM
AdamsArms HANDS DOWN...





But once again, like the others stated... I am Biased
goretro77  [Member]
1/11/2010 6:08:22 AM
Ruger SR556.

I own two Colts including a LE6920.

Yesterday the Ruger SR556 shot more and yet managed to keep cleaner in the BCG than the Colt LE6920 DI gun.

Its been reliable, at the #2 gas regulator setting no failure to feed or eject.
cigardad  [Team Member]
1/11/2010 9:27:58 AM
One more LMT vote.
jtb33  [Member]
1/11/2010 12:45:46 PM
LMT
dilmorecg  [Member]
1/11/2010 1:09:36 PM
+1 LWRC
regalgseguy  [Member]
1/11/2010 1:11:35 PM
Another SR-556 Vote. Why? Because I like mine.
Speedy  [Team Member]
1/11/2010 1:24:53 PM
Another vote for LWRC. Not only do they make a top of the line product, but their customer service is exceptional IMHO.
benkank  [Member]
1/11/2010 1:42:46 PM
pof. simple elegant piston design. i have also fired and lwrc and lmt. All are great but pof is superior for match work. Very accurate and shoots very flat.
Lympago  [Member]
1/11/2010 3:20:59 PM


The best one, is the one that has reliable function in the widest amount of AR setups, with the best support base for spare parts and customer service. That tends to fall on Adams Arms these days. Rifles are being built off of them by different builders and a owner can modify the AR he already owns or buy many DI built rifles out there and then modify it. They also come out to be some of the best priced ways to go too. Alot of the other systems out there don't offer that on even close to the same level and far more costly overall. LWRC's also have another con that the way the system is currently designed, an owner has to remove the handguard top to even get to the system which makes it even less user friendly compared to the other systems that are removalable from the block and plug. Everyone has their opinion of the systems though and this is just mine.




Yak9  [Member]
1/11/2010 3:59:37 PM
What's the best gas piston? That's easy; mine!

But a lot boils down to what available in and around your area. Rifles such as the LMT piston are (supposedly) hard to find right now or are on a back order long enough for some to consider a different make. I've seen all major brands of piston gun at a local dealer so you may be luck as far as that goes but price is another matter I'm sure.

Why a piston gun for matches anyway?
4lifeglocker  [Member]
1/11/2010 4:13:42 PM
+1 on LMT baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grouchy-Hermit  [Team Member]
1/11/2010 4:18:20 PM
You might as well ask which automaker is best, which computer is best or which potato chips are best because they will all yield a wide variety of responses that probably won't make the decision any easier. You might be better served to ask if there are piston systems which should be avoided because they have been proven to fail consistently.
ChromeLined  [Member]
1/11/2010 4:28:23 PM
I have both drop in no gunsmithing needed kits the Osprey and the ARES...Osprey much simpler,cleaner running and in my opinion it runs more reliably than the ARES..and no clamp needed.Ive had the ARES bind up if you tighten the cyclider clamp too tight.
doubleajaybrock  [Team Member]
1/11/2010 5:23:20 PM
+1 LWRC
reddeth  [Member]
1/11/2010 6:28:41 PM
One LMT Vote, shot for the first time 80 rounds in 10 degree weather, not even a double feed from the included LMT magazine. I really love the recoil too, it almost felt like a toy compared to some of the DI guns I've fired.

Lets not forget the obvious one, all that was dirty after shooting was the barrel, and even that was very clean

*edit to add content

The accuracy was very good too, I was shooting at about 25 yards since it was cold and I had no intention of going 50+ yards out in north Texas farmland to get a piece of sheet rock when I was done. It is almost like it comes from the factory sighted in, I had to adjust them very little, but it looks like the Irons were sighted in low since all my hits were low... or maybe they were sighted in farther, I don't claim to be good with iron sights, so I have no idea
J-L  [Team Member]
1/11/2010 8:02:48 PM
+100

LMT
truman48  [Member]
1/11/2010 8:49:26 PM
LWRC +1
jBoy723  [Team Member]
1/12/2010 12:03:30 AM
I own both a LWRC and a LMT. If I were to chose between the two, I would have to give the edge to my LMT MRP. With all the various configurations you're options are very plentiful.
rotaryeye  [Member]
1/12/2010 5:25:38 AM
Originally Posted By JRRoden:
Guys I am looking to possibly buy a gas piston rifle for matches. I am just wondering which one is reliable and consitent.


AK

Ooops, wrong forum

ETA: LWRC for AR piston system.
arcticwarrior  [Member]
1/12/2010 7:50:00 AM
I don't have any experience with any of the gas piston systems yet. My Osprey will be here today for my Bushy Carbon 15. I have been reading most of these forums and trying to educate myself as I am looking for another gas piston AR, to carry for work. I'm still trying to decipher the true difference between a retrofit and a built from scratch name brand piston system. Between LWRC, LMT, and POF, I just can't see spending over $2k for a rifle that's actually going to get used. I can see spending the cash if you are going to hang it on the wall or if your that guy who has the coin to spend. I'm not just commenting to bitch about prices, I am confused regarding the prices. I personally don't know anyone that owns an LWRC, LMT, or POF. The average guy out there, myself included, will have a good time trying to justify the expense to our spouses about $2k or more for a rifle. That doesn't include the optics, lights, or some other accessories. I was looking at a Titan upper, I've changed my mind on that.

It would seem that the companies that have sunk some serious money into retrofitting seem to be the way to go. The Adams Arms and the Osprey look attractive as they are priced reasonably and appear to be exceptional quality. I understand that these companies like LWRC, LMT, and POF have invested serious money into developing and marketing their products. I also hear that they are some of the best quality companies. I guess the way I'm seeing it is buying a LWRC, LMT, or POF is like taking my kid to the Hollister store because he wants the "cool" and current fad for clothes. They seem to make great quality clothes, but expensive as hell, overpriced imo.

If some feel the need to flame me, then game on I guess. I'm just trying to understand this whole thing.
Lympago  [Member]
1/12/2010 9:57:31 AM
Originally Posted By arcticwarrior:
I don't have any experience with any of the gas piston systems yet. My Osprey will be here today for my Bushy Carbon 15. I have been reading most of these forums and trying to educate myself as I am looking for another gas piston AR, to carry for work. I'm still trying to decipher the true difference between a retrofit and a built from scratch name brand piston system. Between LWRC, LMT, and POF, I just can't see spending over $2k for a rifle that's actually going to get used. I can see spending the cash if you are going to hang it on the wall or if your that guy who has the coin to spend. I'm not just commenting to bitch about prices, I am confused regarding the prices. I personally don't know anyone that owns an LWRC, LMT, or POF. The average guy out there, myself included, will have a good time trying to justify the expense to our spouses about $2k or more for a rifle. That doesn't include the optics, lights, or some other accessories. I was looking at a Titan upper, I've changed my mind on that.

It would seem that the companies that have sunk some serious money into retrofitting seem to be the way to go. The Adams Arms and the Osprey look attractive as they are priced reasonably and appear to be exceptional quality. I understand that these companies like LWRC, LMT, and POF have invested serious money into developing and marketing their products. I also hear that they are some of the best quality companies. I guess the way I'm seeing it is buying a LWRC, LMT, or POF is like taking my kid to the Hollister store because he wants the "cool" and current fad for clothes. They seem to make great quality clothes, but expensive as hell, overpriced imo.
If some feel the need to flame me, then game on I guess. I'm just trying to understand this whole thing.




Your on point. They are good companies and make a nice product, but Arfcom is loaded with fanboyism and you often don't get more than that in various posters replies. As a former POF owner, they make an nice rifle and the system is robust and reliable, but not worth what they charge for it comparatively. Same goes for the LWRC which while never owning one because I never liked it's design enough, I've got enough time on other owners LWRC's and it's the same way. A nice rifle, but there aren't really any pro's that justify the price. I've only gotten to handle the LMT and look over the system but it doesn't seem different.

The piston systems themselves are all quality made, but not anymore than Adams Arms and after the piston system it's basically an AR with the value based on the sum of the parts. Are they using better barrels, receivers and parts than you could get otherwise? No. Can you build as quality a rifle for less? Yes, and competition will be bringing prices down even more.
A person can pay the extra for the larger names if they want to or get the same quality rifle for less elsewhere.


kentak  [Member]
1/12/2010 1:17:08 PM
Truthfully, isn't it too early to tell? There are several new entries in the field, and there are thousands of man hours of real world testing to be done before a picture emerges. I'd say we'll know a lot more in a year or two.
reddeth  [Member]
1/12/2010 5:56:29 PM
Originally Posted By arcticwarrior:
... Between LWRC, LMT, and POF, I just can't see spending over $2k for a rifle that's actually going to get used. I can see spending the cash if you are going to hang it on the wall or if your that guy who has the coin to spend. I'm not just commenting to bitch about prices, I am confused regarding the prices. I personally don't know anyone that owns an LWRC, LMT, or POF. The average guy out there, myself included, will have a good time trying to justify the expense to our spouses about $2k or more for a rifle. That doesn't include the optics, lights, or some other accessories. I was looking at a Titan upper, I've changed my mind on that.

LOL, I make $8 an hour, and am only 18, I realize I don't have a spouse to justify things to, but I did manage to buy myself a $2000+ gun including tax. All you have to do is decide what looks best and put aside money every chance you get. I found a local gun shop that had layaway, that's how I made sure I got mine

Yes I could have gotten something cheaper, yes I should have gotten something cheaper, but this is what I wanted, and ARs are pretty much a want item for civi's unless you truly feel threatened enough in your home to buy an AR, but then you have bigger problems than how much your gun costs! I could have gotten a kick ass DI gun, but I've wanted the LMT piston 16 ever since I saw its pre-release review in the 2008 Book of the AR-15 by which ever magazine, I forget... Guns and Ammo?

[/preaching from someone who probably missed a lot of actual points and just stated the same one over and over again ]

This is ARFCOM, get them all

Mand76  [Team Member]
1/13/2010 2:07:46 PM
Why is a question like this asked and then everyone chimes in and throws out a name, the name which happens to be the one they bought and the ONLY one they've had any experience with.

I am interested in getting a piston kit and there may be TWO people in this thread I'd listen to. Everyone else is just happy with their own purchase. People do strange things and settle quite a bit once they've made a purchase to not feel so "silly". It's a subconscious thing but people do it. I've seen people justify their UTG purchases...
DaFuzz62  [Team Member]
1/13/2010 2:49:20 PM
Don't own a piston gun myself, but I did a build for a friend of mine using the CMMG kit. It was very simple to assemble and runs great! I have requested a unit from Osprey to test for my PD. It looks like a durable kit. I don't see the need to spend big money on a factory gun when I can put one together with a kit for far less money. Just my thoughts.
reddeth  [Member]
1/13/2010 4:34:30 PM
Originally Posted By Mand76:
Why is a question like this asked and then everyone chimes in and throws out a name, the name which happens to be the one they bought and the ONLY one they've had any experience with.

I am interested in getting a piston kit and there may be TWO people in this thread I'd listen to. Everyone else is just happy with their own purchase. People do strange things and settle quite a bit once they've made a purchase to not feel so "silly". It's a subconscious thing but people do it. I've seen people justify their UTG purchases...


Guilty party here,

While I do love my LMT, my next purchase will be the PWS Diablo as soon as I get the money up for it, they look like really cool systems
gunsho11b  [Member]
1/13/2010 7:51:44 PM
LMT
Xskier45  [Member]
1/13/2010 9:28:04 PM
1. Hk 416/MR556 - Yeah not available yet but looks to be pretty certain that they will be hitting shelves this year. They already have U.S. manufactured examples ready for next week. Also the only gas-piston AR being fielded by actual militaries and SOF groups. It's been proven in battle with a lot of people and no other piston AR can claim that.

2. LWRC - Lots out there being put through some really tough shooting and going strong.

3. LMT - Same as above

Any others seem closer to hobby guns to me.

LX200  [Team Member]
1/14/2010 2:36:04 AM
BCM Middie upper - $425
Adams kit - $379
Daniel Omega rail - $260

Result - kick butt railed AR middie piston upper for just over $1050
141FE  [Member]
1/14/2010 10:38:37 AM
Daewoo - 30 years ago
millex  [Member]
1/14/2010 1:31:24 PM
I have an Addax Tactical upper 100% perfect through Iraq. Did slow down at the end it had some 18k plus rounds through it and could not bring it back.
I also used a LWRC M6A2 on the second barrel about 25k rounds through the gun now upgraded the bolt and replaced some spings nothing abnormal.
LMT MRP I am using now only 5k plus rounds through it nothing popping up yet.

These are the only ones I have shot and used. The LWRC and LMT were handed out for me and the guys they are working fine and I would own them. However I miss my Addax upper. Chris built it for me to what we thought would work the best and it held up better and became my good luck charm. I'll be ordering another when I get home. But all three we stellar as far as I'm concerned. Do your homework and see which one offers everything you want and pick it.
Grouchy-Hermit  [Team Member]
1/14/2010 1:54:10 PM
Originally Posted By LX200:
BCM Middie upper - $425
Adams kit - $379
Daniel Omega rail - $260

Result - kick butt railed AR middie piston upper for just over $1050

Here's the Adams kit for $290 to get the build below $1,000. I'm not familiar with the vendor.

http://www.calssportingarmory.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=adams&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
asiparks  [Team Member]
1/14/2010 4:03:15 PM
Originally Posted By Mand76:
Why is a question like this asked and then everyone chimes in and throws out a name, the name which happens to be the one they bought and the ONLY one they've had any experience with.

I am interested in getting a piston kit and there may be TWO people in this thread I'd listen to. Everyone else is just happy with their own purchase. People do strange things and settle quite a bit once they've made a purchase to not feel so "silly". It's a subconscious thing but people do it. I've seen people justify their UTG purchases...


well, not sure what else you'd expect.
Very few people are able to compare or review multiple rifles or kits rifles functionally, either before or after buying, so all the comments are going to be based on what they've already decided is the best based on reviews in gun mags or on the gun forums.
Most people on the forums don't put nearly enough round down range to break something and accuracy reports are meaningless unless each rifle is tested in sufficient numbers against a consistent protocol.

One guy here has had 2 piston rifles, preferred one over the other and was able to state why. His experience did not mirror my own, but I believe him. Does that mean I got an exceptionally good rifle or he got a exceptionally shitty one ? We'll never know.

We all know that just about any $899 DI AR with fixed irons and an A1 stock will perform as reliably and accurately as any $2200 piston with troys and a UBR 99.9999% of time. Especially with civvie use. We just expect that the .0001 % extra will be there if we do ever need it, that barrel will be longer lasting and more accurate, the trigger will be a bit less mil. feeling and the gun will be assembled with a bit more care and finishing for that extra $1300.

I have an LWRC but I would no doubt have been as happy with the LMT or POF. The LWRC just happened to be heavily discounted. It shoots as well as my $899 Bushmaster from the bench.

M1Riflenut  [Member]
1/14/2010 4:20:40 PM
The best gas piston gun?
Thats easy.

Mand76  [Team Member]
1/15/2010 12:17:14 PM
You missed my point. My point is that I was asking how many people here actually have anything to say regarding which is the "best" as opposed to "did you buy one and are you happy with it?

I know that many people aren't going to get to test more than one kind. BUT that doesn't mean they can't say "while I was researching, I read a test between these 3 companies and that's why I chose what I did. The reviewer said it was best because xxxx."

For all I know this thread is full of guys who bought a gas piston system as their first new AR15 and might have 200 rounds for it. There's not much substance here.

I do appreciate the few who HAVE had experience with multiple brands.

You don't need to point out the obvious to me either...


Originally Posted By asiparks:
Originally Posted By Mand76:
Why is a question like this asked and then everyone chimes in and throws out a name, the name which happens to be the one they bought and the ONLY one they've had any experience with.

I am interested in getting a piston kit and there may be TWO people in this thread I'd listen to. Everyone else is just happy with their own purchase. People do strange things and settle quite a bit once they've made a purchase to not feel so "silly". It's a subconscious thing but people do it. I've seen people justify their UTG purchases...


well, not sure what else you'd expect.
Very few people are able to compare or review multiple rifles or kits rifles functionally, either before or after buying, so all the comments are going to be based on what they've already decided is the best based on reviews in gun mags or on the gun forums.
Most people on the forums don't put nearly enough round down range to break something and accuracy reports are meaningless unless each rifle is tested in sufficient numbers against a consistent protocol.

One guy here has had 2 piston rifles, preferred one over the other and was able to state why. His experience did not mirror my own, but I believe him. Does that mean I got an exceptionally good rifle or he got a exceptionally shitty one ? We'll never know.

We all know that just about any $899 DI AR with fixed irons and an A1 stock will perform as reliably and accurately as any $2200 piston with troys and a UBR 99.9999% of time. Especially with civvie use. We just expect that the .0001 % extra will be there if we do ever need it, that barrel will be longer lasting and more accurate, the trigger will be a bit less mil. feeling and the gun will be assembled with a bit more care and finishing for that extra $1300.

I have an LWRC but I would no doubt have been as happy with the LMT or POF. The LWRC just happened to be heavily discounted. It shoots as well as my $899 Bushmaster from the bench.



Essayons  [Team Member]
1/15/2010 12:35:13 PM
Originally Posted By JRRoden:
What is the best gas piston?


The one indicated by the number 2, below



Sorry, couldn't resist.

Epyon  [Team Member]
1/15/2010 4:04:34 PM
LMT +1
LX200  [Team Member]
1/15/2010 10:00:17 PM

I thought when we got the piston only section we would be rid of these moronic posts.

Originally Posted By Essayons:
Originally Posted By JRRoden:
What is the best gas piston?


The one indicated by the number 2, below

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/M16_bolt_assembly_TM9-1005-319-23_Fig_C-3.png

Sorry, couldn't resist.



88formula  [Member]
1/15/2010 10:55:53 PM
LWRC REAPER .308

Tacoma213  [Member]
1/16/2010 4:34:37 AM

lmt
COmike  [Member]
1/16/2010 9:48:03 AM
Am fairly new here so hope this is not a stupid question.

I would like a new 6.8 upper in a piston system. Is this something you can just
put on your existing lower? Do most of the manufacturers make a piston system
in 6.8?

Thanks
armabill  [Member]
1/16/2010 12:03:53 PM
I installed the Osprey System, OPS-416 KIT, in my Colt and it ran good right from the start.

I'd thought that I might have to tweak it or something but it wasn't necessary.
jadams951  [Team Member]
1/16/2010 4:22:19 PM
Originally Posted By Lympago:


The best one, is the one that has reliable function in the widest amount of AR setups, with the best support base for spare parts and customer service. That tends to fall on Adams Arms these days. Rifles are being built off of them by different builders and a owner can modify the AR he already owns or buy many DI built rifles out there and then modify it. They also come out to be some of the best priced ways to go too. Alot of the other systems out there don't offer that on even close to the same level and far more costly overall. LWRC's also have another con that the way the system is currently designed, an owner has to remove the handguard top to even get to the system which makes it even less user friendly compared to the other systems that are removalable from the block and plug. Everyone has their opinion of the systems though and this is just mine.








Oh wow...taking the top rail off requires unscrewing two thumb screws to get to it. How is that a big deal?
theperfectsbr  [Member]
1/16/2010 4:48:57 PM
Originally Posted By jadams951:
Originally Posted By Lympago:


The best one, is the one that has reliable function in the widest amount of AR setups, with the best support base for spare parts and customer service. That tends to fall on Adams Arms these days. Rifles are being built off of them by different builders and a owner can modify the AR he already owns or buy many DI built rifles out there and then modify it. They also come out to be some of the best priced ways to go too. Alot of the other systems out there don't offer that on even close to the same level and far more costly overall. LWRC's also have another con that the way the system is currently designed, an owner has to remove the handguard top to even get to the system which makes it even less user friendly compared to the other systems that are removalable from the block and plug. Everyone has their opinion of the systems though and this is just mine.








Oh wow...taking the top rail off requires unscrewing two thumb screws to get to it. How is that a big deal?


+100...i guess that extra 3 seconds of intense labor is too much?

Lympago  [Member]
1/16/2010 7:03:04 PM



I'm very happy for both of you to not care about the needed handguard removal and the limit handguard choice it offers. Hopefully you'll be able to understand we all don't see it that way or see it as a plus.



Mand76  [Team Member]
1/16/2010 7:46:20 PM

Originally Posted By jadams951:
Originally Posted By Lympago:


The best one, is the one that has reliable function in the widest amount of AR setups, with the best support base for spare parts and customer service. That tends to fall on Adams Arms these days. Rifles are being built off of them by different builders and a owner can modify the AR he already owns or buy many DI built rifles out there and then modify it. They also come out to be some of the best priced ways to go too. Alot of the other systems out there don't offer that on even close to the same level and far more costly overall. LWRC's also have another con that the way the system is currently designed, an owner has to remove the handguard top to even get to the system which makes it even less user friendly compared to the other systems that are removalable from the block and plug. Everyone has their opinion of the systems though and this is just mine.








Oh wow...taking the top rail off requires unscrewing two thumb screws to get to it. How is that a big deal?

He said "less user friendly" not "it breaks my back every time I have to do it"
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