AR15.Com Archives
 Osprey Defense OPS-416 Piston Conversion T&E Review *PICS*
DirtySouthNarco  [Team Member]
7/28/2009 6:56:10 PM EST
Ok, finally done with the T&E

Pros:
Cost:
Reasonably priced for LEO agencies and individual officers
Function:
My unit ran 100% out the box, I shot XM193, TAP, TRU, without a hiccup.
Cleanliness:
Chamber and Bore wear very clean after shooting
Simplistic:
Easy to install with very few tools, instructions were clear, but could have been more detailed, or supplied in digital format


Shooting was more enjoyable since I don't run a PRI Gas Buster Handle and having gas blow back in my face with NTCH. Especially on rapid fire drills. Customer Service was exceptional, granted these units are in phase one of being released, I was told there are plans for a 1 Piece BCG, a slightly longer rod to take out the 1/16 gap in the piston housing.

My rifle shot smooth as it was, but I was noticeably smoother with the system in place.

Rifle is not a safe queen and is used regularly, hence the drag down the driveway look. It looks like I run it wet, but that is a thin coat of Slipp 2000 on the BCG and a tad of Mangnalube-G applied with a q-tip on the piston rod where it slides on a bushing inserted into the upper assembly. This was not required by the manufacture, but again it is habit..

Cons
Does not fit under a lot of major manufacture free float rail systems, I had to scrap my Troy MRF and switch to the Magpul MOE. I did have to modify the heat shield a tad as seen in the photos do to rubbing. I called Tech Support and they said it may short stroke, but mine didn't, I cut mine as a preventive measure.

While I didn't mind scarifying my BCG, I wish it was supplied with a 1 piece pre fab unit. However, it was supply with a new key, press tool, and Loc-Tite.












Thanks to aroundLSU for the photos.
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Plexus  [Member]
7/28/2009 8:13:29 PM EST
Midwest Industries offers a new free float quadrail that will work flawlessly with the OPS 416. I purchased the OPS 416 a few weeks ago. I couldn't find any real world reviews on the interweb so I figured I buy one and test it out. Its a simple design, nothing new. Ran very clean. I fired approximately 100 rounds with the system installed and it ran great. Unfortuneatly I overtorqued the screws in my gas block and now I'm waiting for new one. I need to do further testing....
LonghunterCO  [Team Member]
7/29/2009 5:08:27 AM EST
So what is involved in the installation? I see what has to be done the the BC, but is this a remove the FSB install too?
raw_power  [Member]
7/29/2009 8:00:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
So what is involved in the installation? I see what has to be done the the BC, but is this a remove the FSB install too?


http://gaspiston.com/index/osprey-defense-gas-piston-system-ar15-m16-installation/
Plexus  [Member]
7/29/2009 5:58:44 PM EST
Anybody else out there with experience?
DirtySouthNarco  [Team Member]
7/29/2009 7:12:52 PM EST
we shot another 200 rds tonight, and my rifle is still very clean..most of it was 2-3 shot control pairs/sets. bolt stayed very cool. recoil is much smoother, and felt recoil is lessened.
KogaShuko  [Member]
7/29/2009 7:57:30 PM EST
Is it still $349?

I would take that out of the pro catagory since for $399 you can get kits that include a bolt carrier or gas block ajustment in other units.
Plexus  [Member]
7/30/2009 7:11:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By DirtySouthNarco:
we shot another 200 rds tonight, and my rifle is still very clean..most of it was 2-3 shot control pairs/sets. bolt stayed very cool. recoil is much smoother, and felt recoil is lessened.


I shot another 200 rounds today aswell. Seems the OPS 416 runs very clean. My only concern is the gas key screws, mine became slightly loosened durring use. Did you stake yours? Doesn't look like it in the photos. Otherwise I'm happy with the purchase.

DirtySouthNarco  [Team Member]
7/31/2009 5:58:36 AM EST
no, but i did tighten mine to the specs 59 inch pds

i did thoroughly degrease, and then use the supply loc tite.. then let sit overnight.
ranger216  [Member]
8/2/2009 8:05:49 PM EST
Over 2500 hundred fail free rounds threw mine and havent cleaned it. This thing rocks.
Plexus  [Member]
8/5/2009 1:38:52 PM EST
Today I shot another 150 rounds+/- with the OPS-416 installed and all the bugs worked out. I'm extremely pleased. This system fires very clean. KUDOS!!!
I would like to hear any long term feed back with the OPS-416 installed if anybody has any.
ZedsDeadBaby  [Team Member]
8/5/2009 1:52:10 PM EST
Is it still being sold only to Law Enforcement?
Plexus  [Member]
8/5/2009 9:02:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
Is it still being sold only to Law Enforcement?


I don't think so. Give them a call.?
Plexus  [Member]
8/11/2009 1:35:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Plexus:
Today I shot another 150 rounds+/- with the OPS-416 installed and all the bugs worked out. I'm extremely pleased. This system fires very clean. KUDOS!!!
I would like to hear any long term feed back with the OPS-416 installed if anybody has any.


After another 200+ rounds my OPS-416 bolt is now unserviceable. The larger of the two screws broke in the carrier. I called my rep for my area and he said they're working on a new one piece design. He said they should be done testing it in another three weeks or so. The Rep also said that several people have had the same problem and will receive a free one piece bolt carrier if they call. Kudos to them for recognizing they have a problem, fixing it and offering an exchange.

...we shall wait and see?
LonghunterCO  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 5:16:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Plexus:
Originally Posted By Plexus:
Today I shot another 150 rounds+/- with the OPS-416 installed and all the bugs worked out. I'm extremely pleased. This system fires very clean. KUDOS!!!
I would like to hear any long term feed back with the OPS-416 installed if anybody has any.


After another 200+ rounds my OPS-416 bolt is now unserviceable. The larger of the two screws broke in the carrier. I called my rep for my area and he said they're working on a new one piece design. He said they should be done testing it in another three weeks or so. The Rep also said that several people have had the same problem and will receive a free one piece bolt carrier if they call. Kudos to them for recognizing they have a problem, fixing it and offering an exchange.

...we shall wait and see?


What was your round count pre-breakage?

Plexus  [Member]
8/12/2009 4:08:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
Originally Posted By Plexus:
Originally Posted By Plexus:
Today I shot another 150 rounds+/- with the OPS-416 installed and all the bugs worked out. I'm extremely pleased. This system fires very clean. KUDOS!!!
I would like to hear any long term feed back with the OPS-416 installed if anybody has any.


After another 200+ rounds my OPS-416 bolt is now unserviceable. The larger of the two screws broke in the carrier. I called my rep for my area and he said they're working on a new one piece design. He said they should be done testing it in another three weeks or so. The Rep also said that several people have had the same problem and will receive a free one piece bolt carrier if they call. Kudos to them for recognizing they have a problem, fixing it and offering an exchange.

...we shall wait and see?


What was your round count pre-breakage?

500+/-



BJKrauel1  [Member]
9/16/2009 11:29:15 PM EST
Had one installed on one of our departments Colt M-4's with the 14.5 inch barrell. Worked fine until almost 1000 round count. Started to malfunctin and discovered that the charging handle broke in two. Upon dissassembly we also discovered the buffer tube had been beaten up and wore away enough to allow the buffer detent to pop out. I had read a couple threads that said the new key with the piston rod could cause improper riding of the bolt carrier group. I believe this to have been the problem. Did not see any damage to the BCG or the key. I havent had a chance to contact the company but this does not look good. Anyone else have these problems?
DirtySouthNarco  [Team Member]
9/22/2009 11:30:02 AM EST
Well I am well into the 2000 round count without an issue. However I will be getting the new 1 piece BCG and slightly longer rod in about a week. The real test is coming in NOV for a magpul class.
Plexus  [Member]
9/22/2009 7:42:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By DirtySouthNarco:
Well I am well into the 2000 round count without an issue. However I will be getting the new 1 piece BCG and slightly longer rod in about a week. The real test is coming in NOV for a magpul class.


I am still waiting for mine. Looks like November-ish..?

Dace  [Member]
9/22/2009 8:14:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By BJKrauel1:
Had one installed on one of our departments Colt M-4's with the 14.5 inch barrell. Worked fine until almost 1000 round count. Started to malfunctin and discovered that the charging handle broke in two. Upon dissassembly we also discovered the buffer tube had been beaten up and wore away enough to allow the buffer detent to pop out. I had read a couple threads that said the new key with the piston rod could cause improper riding of the bolt carrier group. I believe this to have been the problem. Did not see any damage to the BCG or the key. I havent had a chance to contact the company but this does not look good. Anyone else have these problems?


It happens because of carrier tilt. When a company doesn't do anything to address it, it causes problems. I.e. when they use a standard bolt carrier and slap a piston system onto the rifle.

This company is finding out what many have long known; using a standard key will shear any bolts and using a standard carrier will cause problems due to carrier tilt.

SepsiS13  [Member]
9/22/2009 8:51:18 PM EST
Looks like people have already forgotten about the Adams Arms version which comes with the 1 piece carrier, and looks like a better piece than this Osprey one. Plus, you don't have to modify your hand guard to fit it.


Originally Posted By Plexus:
Originally Posted By DirtySouthNarco:
Well I am well into the 2000 round count without an issue. However I will be getting the new 1 piece BCG and slightly longer rod in about a week. The real test is coming in NOV for a magpul class.


I am still waiting for mine. Looks like November-ish..?




I would cancel my order, but that's just me.
sf3pox1  [Member]
9/23/2009 1:31:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By SepsiS13:
Looks like people have already forgotten about the Adams Arms version which comes with the 1 piece carrier, and looks like a better piece than this Osprey one. Plus, you don't have to modify your hand guard to fit it.


Originally Posted By Plexus:
Originally Posted By DirtySouthNarco:
Well I am well into the 2000 round count without an issue. However I will be getting the new 1 piece BCG and slightly longer rod in about a week. The real test is coming in NOV for a magpul class.


I am still waiting for mine. Looks like November-ish..?




I would cancel my order, but that's just me.


Yes you do have to modify your handguard with the Adams Arms kit; unl;ess you use there's that is already modified. BUt if you want to use any other handguards, like the Magpul MOE shown, that the OP is using, it needs to be modified for the AA kit.

Plexus  [Member]
9/23/2009 6:25:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By SepsiS13:
Looks like people have already forgotten about the Adams Arms version which comes with the 1 piece carrier, and looks like a better piece than this Osprey one. Plus, you don't have to modify your hand guard to fit it.


Originally Posted By Plexus:
Originally Posted By DirtySouthNarco:
Well I am well into the 2000 round count without an issue. However I will be getting the new 1 piece BCG and slightly longer rod in about a week. The real test is coming in NOV for a magpul class.


I am still waiting for mine. Looks like November-ish..?




I would cancel my order, but that's just me.


It's being sent out free of charge.

SepsiS13  [Member]
9/23/2009 6:35:52 AM EST
Ahh, well you can't beat that.
BadLuther  [Team Member]
10/7/2009 1:36:56 AM EST
Tag for outcome.
bigboy69  [Member]
10/15/2009 12:58:48 PM EST
hello everybody, im new to this forum and read about your topic regarding the ops-416. i also have one and it damaged my charging handle and make a big scrape on my upper receiver. the bigger screw of the two screws broke.im planning to call the company regarding this. does anyone already received anything from the company? thanks..
ospreydefense  [Member]
10/22/2009 7:26:33 AM EST
We were just directed to this thread and another one by one of our AR15.com user friends and would like to take a minute to dispel a few notions and share some of our experience and perspective as the manufacturer of the OPS-416 system:

First, should anyone have a question about the Osprey Defense OPS-416 System, please give us a call TOLL FREE at 1-877-AR15-M16 and we'll be more than happy to answer any and all questions you might have. You are also welcome to contact us via email anytime you have a question at mail@ospreydefense.com
So few test units have been released intentionally that outside of the factory and our agency partner test teams, there are few who have any real experience yet with the system, so as with anything, consider the source or better yet, ask us!

1. The OPS-416 kit INCLUDES both a solid bolt carrier and replacement handguard. The beauty of the OPS-416 is in it's robust simplicity and different method of operation built with the finest material available and it is a miracle of micro-machining. You can run it on any mil-spec AR15/M16/M4 rifle that meets the following conditions: Barrel diameter no greater than .875" outer diameter with a barrel length of 11.5" to 20" using all SAAMI spec ammunition in semi-auto or full auto, suppressed or unsuppressed. You DO NOT need to switch anything to put a suppressor on your gun and the same kit works in a semi auto or full auto gun. The OPS-416 will outlast the useful service life of the mil-spec rifle it is installed on.

2. We have been slow in releasing the product to the general public because unlike others out there, we don't believe in beta-testing a product by selling it to the public and "hoping it works" when lives are on the line, or beta-testing by public feedback. If, at any point we have found an area which could be improved, or our agency and military test team has suggested an improvement, we listened and have focused on making this system truly bulletproof. Development of this product began nearly 3 years ago, long before many other products out there were rushed to market. Our feeling was we needed to be better, not faster to market.

3. This system is unlike any other on the market and it is incorrect to lump it with other systems for many reasons. We have purchased and tested every commercially available gas-piston conversion system on the market over the past years and are intimately familiar with their operation, metallurgical makeup, strengths and weaknesses. Some are definately better than others and no other system operates on the same principle as the OPS-416. You can see from our patent pending kidney-shaped chamber design that from every angle, the OPS-416 is different. We have tested our system on the top 10 manufacturer's of the AR15/M16 rifle platform and it works and fits flawlessly. (see gun specs for will-fit #1 above)

4. The OPS-416 is a true, no modification to your gun, drop-in solution which DOES NOT require driving out factory set pins in your sight tower and completely rebuilding your gun. Nearly every agency we have worked with have indicated that permanent modifications to the gun platform as approved by the agency would disqualify a gas-piston install from duty use, and removal of the factory pinned gas block/sight tower assembly in their opinion was a permanent modification while simple removal of the gas tube (which had to be removed for depot-level cleaning anyway) did not.

5. User installed in under 5 minutes. You DO NOT need to send your gun anywhere to have the system installed! First time installers familiar enough with their rifle to completely clean it will have no trouble installing it in under 5 minutes and repeat installers have been able to install it in as little as 3 minutes with practice. There is no milling, drilling or fitting required for the OPS-416, you simply install it and it works.

6. Barrel clamps and such.......nothing should EVER be clamped around the barrel of your gun for MANY reasons. The OPS-416 requires NO CLAMPS around your barrel.

7. Engineering, testing and the company behind the OPS-416. The known 40+ year old problem of fouling from carbon build up and debris such as dirt and mud causing the AR platform to malfuction is well documented and real. Sanitary guns used for target shooting in a nice clean range environment where lives are not dependent on a rifle functioning and rifles are cleaned every few strings of fire will probably not experience this issue. Solving this 40+ year old problem with the ability to manufacture it on a multi-country military scale takes time to be completed correctly. We have generated the THOUSANDS of pages of real engineering documentation, stress analysis, heat analysis, manufacturability studies, longevity tests, live-fire testing, metallurgical reports and quality control procedures necessary for any real military grade end-use product. We currently expend 13,000 rounds of M855 alone per week on average, just conducting live fire testing. Anyone who thinks slapping something together and putting it on the market without taking the time and spending the money to do all this is doing the end user a huge disservice. Our factory test shooters spend most of their time just loading magazines, firing, documenting results, and maintaining the guns we use for testing. This company was not started on a shoestring in a garage. The principals come from perfectly suited backgrounds with industry specific knowledge and cumulative annual sales in excess of $50 million in 2008. Opsrey Defense LLC was formed and well funded specifically for this project. Osprey offices in Sarasota are just down the street from our original 68,000 square foot manufacturing facility, and we are currently producing parts in 3 states. This is definately a dedicated and robust venture with a vision for the future.

8. There are other reasons for a piston system other than strictly an increase in functional reliability. Tests indicate that when you remove the heat buildup and contaminants which enter the receiver in a normal gas-impingement gun, useful service life of nearly every part in the receiver is increased.

9. Overheating the barrel destroys the barrel no matter who made it, gas piston or gas-impingement. Anyone who suggests you fire multi-thousand round strings out of ANY rifle without allowing the barrel to cool is, to be polite, exaggerating and will cause you to damage your barrel. Even belt-fed guns designed specifically for suppressive fire and longer strings of fire must be cooled after only a few hundred rounds to avoid cook-offs. We have US military test documentation showing that in US military bench tests they were able to make rounds exit the side of a barrel in as little as 600 rounds of sustained fire out of a normal M16 barrel. Even the hearty AK47 will ignite the forends in as little as 600 rounds and while it may still shoot, there will be a measureable difference in the underlying metallurgy of the barrel. Do NOT fall for those "amazing" 1000 round sustained fire torture tests, you can't carry 1000 rounds effectively and at the end of the 1000 rounds your barrel is damaged. Productive testing is done with military designated strings of fire in multiple modes under various environmental conditions. Things they look for is longevity of the system [service life], ease of use, reliability in extremes of temperature, and the ability to function when subjected to contaminants such as dirt, sand, mud, water, ice, and snow. Over the next weeks we have more than a dozen of these type of video taped extreme tests which we will be putting on our website for those interested.

10. Cost. Like anything, taking the time in the manufacturing process to develop manufacturability studies means you tool-up for mass production and reduce costs massively but accept the huge up-front costs in doing this. The OPS-416 can currently be manufactured at the rate of tens-of-thousands of units per month and our business model is not structured around small volume job-shop manufacturing. This enables us to sell the product for in some cases $250-$400 LESS than other gas-piston conversion systems making it an affordable real option for not only military quantity orders but law enforcement agency, individual officer and civilian users as well.

This system has already participated in T&E programs with many police agencies, federal agencies, foreign military and the US military. All have assisted with manufacturing decisions, engineering and design/operational suggestions. The system is built in multiple ISO9001:2000, ISO-9002, QS900 and TS16949 certified facilities. Every part is laser-measured for quality control after heat treating and finishing and then hand checked at least twice prior to packaging. Each system is lot-tracked and lot checked for metalurgical tolerance. [both surface and core Rockwell]

Osprey Defense is truly striving for a different level of reliability.

Should you have any questions at all of our sales, development or management team, please do not guess or listen to rumor, get the facts. Give us a call toll free and we'll be happy to answer your questions! We're available Monday thru Friday from 9am to 5pm Eastern Time and again, the toll-free number is 1-877-AR15-M16.

If you'd like to see video of our system running or just how easy installation truly is, please visit us at:
http://www.gaspiston.com

Drew
Vice President
Osprey Defense, LLC.






ospreydefense  [Team Member]
11/11/2009 1:35:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigboy69:
hello everybody, im new to this forum and read about your topic regarding the ops-416. i also have one and it damaged my charging handle and make a big scrape on my upper receiver. the bigger screw of the two screws broke.im planning to call the company regarding this. does anyone already received anything from the company? thanks..


You have one of the leaked out original T&E units, the current version has NO SCREWS and comes with a solid 1-piece bolt carrier. Give us a call at 1-877-AR15-M16 between 9am and 5pm EST and talk with tech support if you haven't done so already. Also, I see you are in California, the production unit will be available as California compliant version as well as "everywhere else" version.

Ermac  [Member]
11/11/2009 6:29:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dace:
Originally Posted By BJKrauel1:
Had one installed on one of our departments Colt M-4's with the 14.5 inch barrell. Worked fine until almost 1000 round count. Started to malfunctin and discovered that the charging handle broke in two. Upon dissassembly we also discovered the buffer tube had been beaten up and wore away enough to allow the buffer detent to pop out. I had read a couple threads that said the new key with the piston rod could cause improper riding of the bolt carrier group. I believe this to have been the problem. Did not see any damage to the BCG or the key. I havent had a chance to contact the company but this does not look good. Anyone else have these problems?


It happens because of carrier tilt. When a company doesn't do anything to address it, it causes problems. I.e. when they use a standard bolt carrier and slap a piston system onto the rifle.

This company is finding out what many have long known; using a standard key will shear any bolts and using a standard carrier will cause problems due to carrier tilt.


Assumptions.
Plexus  [Member]
11/11/2009 7:10:19 PM EST
So how did a the original T&E systems leak out I have one? It broke not only the large screw in the gas key, but the charging handle aswell. I must say, when the system was working it ran well.
putiton11  [Member]
11/12/2009 5:45:45 AM EST
DirtySouthNarco or osprey guy i have a cmmg 22 conversion kit i like shooting at the end of the day, how will this affect the osprey kit

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