Archived Posts » 59,726,163
16" PRECISION BARRELS WITH INTERMEDIATE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM
12/31/2010 12:01:34 PM
"SMOOTH" IS GOOD.
WHEN YOU GET TO SHOOT AS MANY DIFFERENT AR' CONFIGURATIONS AS PAUL AND I DO, THE DIFFERENCE THE LITTLE THINGS MAKE BECOME MORE EASILY NOTICED AND APPRECIATED. WE LIKE OUR CUSTOM UPPERS TO RUN "SMOOTHLY". IT IS A DIFFICULT QUALITY TO QUANTIFY. SEE NEW AR' GUY'S CRITIQUE OF OUR 6.8 SPC UPPER SEVERAL YEARS AGO ON THE UPPERS, LOWERS, ETC., FORUM, WHERE HE COMMENTS AT SOME LENGTH ON THIS QUALITY IN OUR WINNING ENTRY.
ANOTHER NOTEWORTHY EXAMPLE REGARDING THIS "SMOOTH" RUNNING QUALITY CAME FROM A SPECIAL FORCES WEAPONS GUY WHO TOOK ONE OF OUR 10.5" GUNS ON DEPLOYMENT TO THE ROCK BOX. HE SAID IN TRAINING UP WITH THE NEW WEAPON, HE HAD TO RECALIBRATE HIS "FEEL" FOR THE PLATFORM. IN HIS WORDS, "IT FEELS LIKE THE BOLT IS CLOSING ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER EVERY TIME, WHEN IN FACT IT IS FEEDING PROPERLY." HE ALSO REPORTED CONFIRMED HITS ON SOME "MAN-SIZE" TARGETS AT 600 YD WITH IT. YES, IT WAS A SUB-MOA 10.5". MAYBE COINCIDENTAL - BUT PROBABLY NOT.
A GUN THAT RUNS MORE SMOOTHLY IMPLIES ONE THAT RUNS MORE RELIABLY, MORE CONSISTENTLY, AND WITH WITH BETTER ACCURACY. ALSO, A SHOOTER CAN RUN A SMOOTH GUN FASTER THAN ONE THAT HAS THE TYPICAL "CHOPPY" QUALITY TO IT.
WE PLACE GREAT EMPHASIS ON GETTING THE BEST QUALITY COMPONENTS BUILT TO THE HIGHEST TOLERANCES IN OUR CUSTOM BUILDS. THIS MEANS "STRAIGHTER" PARTS, PRODUCING LESS FRICTION. ANOTHER CRITICAL ASPECT OF A WEAPON'S "SMOOTH" QUALITIES ARE OPTIMUM PORTING FOR THE GAS SYSTEM, RECOIL SPRING, AND BUFFER WEIGHT, AS WELL AS PROPER LUBRICATION. THE IONBOND DIAMONDBLACK COATING ON THE BOLT CARRIER GROUP COMPONENTS THAT MSTN PIONEERED ALSO IS A BIG CONTRIBUTOR TO THIS.
IT IS ACCEPTED AS FACT AT THIS POINT IN TIME THAT A MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN A 14.5" TO 16" BARREL PRODUCES A SMOOTHER FELT RECOIL PULSE, LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON THE WEAPON, AS WELL AS ENHANCED RELIABILITY THAN THE ORIGINAL FORMAT CARBINE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM. SOUND SUPPRESSOR USAGE TENDS TO GREATLY EXACERBATE THESE DIFFERENCES, TOO. AS A RESULT, WE WOULD NEVER CONSIDER USING A CARBINE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN A CUSTOM 16" BUILD. MID-LENGTH HAS BEEN THE PROVEN WAY TO GO IN THE 16" FOR SOME TIME NOW.
WHEN THE NEW KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT SR15 E3 HIT THE STREETS, I WAS MOST IMPRESSED WITH WHAT AN OUTSTANDING JOB THEY DID IN BALANCING THE RECOIL SPRING AND BUFFER WITH THE GAS PULSE IN THEIR LONGER THAN STANDARD MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM. THIS RIFLE IS AS SMOOTH RUNNING AS YOU CAN FIND, EVEN AT ITS ULTRA-LIGHT WEIGHT, AND REPRESENTS A TREMENDOUS VALUE FOR THE MONEY. WEARING JUST A GENERIC A2 FLASH HIDER, IT PRODUCES LESS APPARENT RECOIL THAN SOME UPPERS WITH COMPENSATORS.
YOU'LL NOTE THAT THE KAC SR15 E3 UTILIZES KNIGHT'S OWN PECULIAR MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM, LONGER THAN THE "INDUSTRY STANDARD" MID-LENGTH. THIS I FELT WAS A LARGE PART OF THEIR SUCCESS. BUT THEY WANTED $39 EACH FOR THIS GAS TUBE ...
... SO WE TURNED TO ANOTHER PAIR OF INDUSTRY INNOVATORS, NOVESKE AND VLTOR, WHO CAME UP WITH THEIR OWN "INTERMEDIATE" LENGTH GAS SYSTEM FOR 18" SPR USE, WITHIN A FRACTION OF AN INCH OF THAT USED BY KNIGHT'S. IT IS #3 IN THE BELOW PHOTOS:
I TRIED THIS INTERMEDIATE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN 18" BUILDS AND FELT THAT IT OFFERED AN ACTUAL DECREASE IN THE QUALITIES WE WERE AFTER. IT FELT "CHOPPY" COMPARED TO THE RIFLE ELNGTH GAS SYSTEM IN AN 18" BUILD. BUT WHAT ABOUT IN A 16" UPPER?
TWO IDENTICAL UPPERS WERE BUILT UP WITH EACH OF THE NOVESKE BARRELS SHOWN, ONE WITH THE TRADITIONAL MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM, AND ONE WITH THE NEW INTERMEDIATE LENGTH. MATCHING NIGHTFORCE SCOPES WERE INSTALLED, AND A SIDE BY SIDE TEST WAS PERFORMED. BOTH SHOT EQUALLY WELL (0.60 MOA), BUT THE NEW GAS SYSTEM PRODUCED A "SMOOTHER" WEAPON WITH LESS APPARENT RECOIL.
WE ARE SO IMPRESSED WITH THIS NEW INTERMEDIATE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN THE 16" THAT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT A PART OF OUR FUTURE CUSTOM OFFERINGS. WE'RE EVEN GOING TO BE ABLE TO STEP DOWN ANOTHER SIZE ON THE GAS PORT.
GOOD SHOOTING,
WES GRANT
MSTN
WHEN YOU GET TO SHOOT AS MANY DIFFERENT AR' CONFIGURATIONS AS PAUL AND I DO, THE DIFFERENCE THE LITTLE THINGS MAKE BECOME MORE EASILY NOTICED AND APPRECIATED. WE LIKE OUR CUSTOM UPPERS TO RUN "SMOOTHLY". IT IS A DIFFICULT QUALITY TO QUANTIFY. SEE NEW AR' GUY'S CRITIQUE OF OUR 6.8 SPC UPPER SEVERAL YEARS AGO ON THE UPPERS, LOWERS, ETC., FORUM, WHERE HE COMMENTS AT SOME LENGTH ON THIS QUALITY IN OUR WINNING ENTRY.
ANOTHER NOTEWORTHY EXAMPLE REGARDING THIS "SMOOTH" RUNNING QUALITY CAME FROM A SPECIAL FORCES WEAPONS GUY WHO TOOK ONE OF OUR 10.5" GUNS ON DEPLOYMENT TO THE ROCK BOX. HE SAID IN TRAINING UP WITH THE NEW WEAPON, HE HAD TO RECALIBRATE HIS "FEEL" FOR THE PLATFORM. IN HIS WORDS, "IT FEELS LIKE THE BOLT IS CLOSING ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER EVERY TIME, WHEN IN FACT IT IS FEEDING PROPERLY." HE ALSO REPORTED CONFIRMED HITS ON SOME "MAN-SIZE" TARGETS AT 600 YD WITH IT. YES, IT WAS A SUB-MOA 10.5". MAYBE COINCIDENTAL - BUT PROBABLY NOT.
A GUN THAT RUNS MORE SMOOTHLY IMPLIES ONE THAT RUNS MORE RELIABLY, MORE CONSISTENTLY, AND WITH WITH BETTER ACCURACY. ALSO, A SHOOTER CAN RUN A SMOOTH GUN FASTER THAN ONE THAT HAS THE TYPICAL "CHOPPY" QUALITY TO IT.
WE PLACE GREAT EMPHASIS ON GETTING THE BEST QUALITY COMPONENTS BUILT TO THE HIGHEST TOLERANCES IN OUR CUSTOM BUILDS. THIS MEANS "STRAIGHTER" PARTS, PRODUCING LESS FRICTION. ANOTHER CRITICAL ASPECT OF A WEAPON'S "SMOOTH" QUALITIES ARE OPTIMUM PORTING FOR THE GAS SYSTEM, RECOIL SPRING, AND BUFFER WEIGHT, AS WELL AS PROPER LUBRICATION. THE IONBOND DIAMONDBLACK COATING ON THE BOLT CARRIER GROUP COMPONENTS THAT MSTN PIONEERED ALSO IS A BIG CONTRIBUTOR TO THIS.
IT IS ACCEPTED AS FACT AT THIS POINT IN TIME THAT A MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN A 14.5" TO 16" BARREL PRODUCES A SMOOTHER FELT RECOIL PULSE, LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON THE WEAPON, AS WELL AS ENHANCED RELIABILITY THAN THE ORIGINAL FORMAT CARBINE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM. SOUND SUPPRESSOR USAGE TENDS TO GREATLY EXACERBATE THESE DIFFERENCES, TOO. AS A RESULT, WE WOULD NEVER CONSIDER USING A CARBINE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN A CUSTOM 16" BUILD. MID-LENGTH HAS BEEN THE PROVEN WAY TO GO IN THE 16" FOR SOME TIME NOW.
WHEN THE NEW KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT SR15 E3 HIT THE STREETS, I WAS MOST IMPRESSED WITH WHAT AN OUTSTANDING JOB THEY DID IN BALANCING THE RECOIL SPRING AND BUFFER WITH THE GAS PULSE IN THEIR LONGER THAN STANDARD MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM. THIS RIFLE IS AS SMOOTH RUNNING AS YOU CAN FIND, EVEN AT ITS ULTRA-LIGHT WEIGHT, AND REPRESENTS A TREMENDOUS VALUE FOR THE MONEY. WEARING JUST A GENERIC A2 FLASH HIDER, IT PRODUCES LESS APPARENT RECOIL THAN SOME UPPERS WITH COMPENSATORS.
YOU'LL NOTE THAT THE KAC SR15 E3 UTILIZES KNIGHT'S OWN PECULIAR MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM, LONGER THAN THE "INDUSTRY STANDARD" MID-LENGTH. THIS I FELT WAS A LARGE PART OF THEIR SUCCESS. BUT THEY WANTED $39 EACH FOR THIS GAS TUBE ...
... SO WE TURNED TO ANOTHER PAIR OF INDUSTRY INNOVATORS, NOVESKE AND VLTOR, WHO CAME UP WITH THEIR OWN "INTERMEDIATE" LENGTH GAS SYSTEM FOR 18" SPR USE, WITHIN A FRACTION OF AN INCH OF THAT USED BY KNIGHT'S. IT IS #3 IN THE BELOW PHOTOS:
I TRIED THIS INTERMEDIATE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN 18" BUILDS AND FELT THAT IT OFFERED AN ACTUAL DECREASE IN THE QUALITIES WE WERE AFTER. IT FELT "CHOPPY" COMPARED TO THE RIFLE ELNGTH GAS SYSTEM IN AN 18" BUILD. BUT WHAT ABOUT IN A 16" UPPER?
TWO IDENTICAL UPPERS WERE BUILT UP WITH EACH OF THE NOVESKE BARRELS SHOWN, ONE WITH THE TRADITIONAL MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM, AND ONE WITH THE NEW INTERMEDIATE LENGTH. MATCHING NIGHTFORCE SCOPES WERE INSTALLED, AND A SIDE BY SIDE TEST WAS PERFORMED. BOTH SHOT EQUALLY WELL (0.60 MOA), BUT THE NEW GAS SYSTEM PRODUCED A "SMOOTHER" WEAPON WITH LESS APPARENT RECOIL.
WE ARE SO IMPRESSED WITH THIS NEW INTERMEDIATE LENGTH GAS SYSTEM IN THE 16" THAT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT A PART OF OUR FUTURE CUSTOM OFFERINGS. WE'RE EVEN GOING TO BE ABLE TO STEP DOWN ANOTHER SIZE ON THE GAS PORT.
GOOD SHOOTING,
WES GRANT
MSTN
12/31/2010 12:13:45 PM
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
12/31/2010 12:18:34 PM
Originally Posted By e-man930:
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
Unavoidable. It's been like this for years and its not likely to change soon.
Thanks for the report & pics Wes, good to see you posting.
12/31/2010 12:37:19 PM
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
12/31/2010 12:50:13 PM
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
ETA TWO WEEKS.
COST? WHAT OTHER COMPONENTS? HERE'S WHERE YOU GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=376359
12/31/2010 12:51:33 PM
Originally Posted By e-man930:
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
12/31/2010 1:08:09 PM
Wes, have you guys gotten to run any of these suppressed? I'm especially curious with the smaller gas ports how these would perform.
12/31/2010 1:12:49 PM
Sounds quite nice and very attractive. Any thoughts on a 308 barrel?
12/31/2010 1:16:22 PM
Originally Posted By MSTN:
ETA TWO WEEKS.
COST? WHAT OTHER COMPONENTS? HERE'S WHERE YOU GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=376359
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
ETA TWO WEEKS.
COST? WHAT OTHER COMPONENTS? HERE'S WHERE YOU GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=376359
Just the custom int-length Recon barrel in bead-blasted stainless, gas tube and typical phosphate Noveske VLT0R pinned gas block.
12/31/2010 1:17:14 PM
Originally Posted By TehLlama42:
Wes, have you guys gotten to run any of these suppressed? I'm especially curious with the smaller gas ports how these would perform.
Wes, have you guys gotten to run any of these suppressed? I'm especially curious with the smaller gas ports how these would perform.
I wanna know too.
12/31/2010 2:30:25 PM
Originally Posted By TehLlama42:
Wes, have you guys gotten to run any of these suppressed? I'm especially curious with the smaller gas ports how these would perform.
Wes, have you guys gotten to run any of these suppressed? I'm especially curious with the smaller gas ports how these would perform.
NO - NOT YET.
BUT, IF A D.I. GAS UPPER WILL RUN UNSUPPRESSED, IT WILL CERTAINLY RUN SUPPRESSED.
SUPPRESSED, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF A GUN IS DIRECT GAS OR PISTON DRIVEN. THE ENTIRE GUN IS GOING TO GET EXTRA DIRTY FROM THE GAS FLOWING AFT DOWN THE BARREL FROM THE SUPPRESSOR. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HELP HERE ARE COATINGS THAT RESIST CARBON FOULING, E.G., IONBOND DIAMONDBLACK, ALONG WITH GOOD LUBE, E.G., GUNBUTTER.
12/31/2010 2:31:52 PM
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
Just the custom int-length Recon barrel in bead-blasted stainless, gas tube and typical phosphate Noveske VLT0R pinned gas block.
Originally Posted By MSTN:
ETA TWO WEEKS.
COST? WHAT OTHER COMPONENTS? HERE'S WHERE YOU GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=376359
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
Wes, very, very interested in this. I've got a 10.5 Noveske CQB barrel build that shoots amazingly (unbeleivably so) smooth with it's carbine length gas. I've also got a 14.5 Aghfan Noveske SS barrel build which is also extremely smooth with it's midlength gas. Noveske REALLY, REALLY knows their gas holes, so to speak. I've actually had a lengthy conversation with Joel about gas holes, ha.
I can only think that this intermediate length in a 16" (as opposed to the more norm 16" midlength) would be the same good thing I'm feeling my other two rifles. A sweet spot, if you will, between barrel length, gas tube length and of course the equally as important gas-port size diameter.
I think a Noveske Recon barrel in an intermediate length would be PERFECT. I ask why hasn't Noveske done this yet in a 16"? I would have to start a new build TODAY if I saw an int-length Recon or Rogue Hunter 16" 5.56 barrel pop up on their website.
What would a custom Recon barrel from you cost with a proper intermediate gas port & gas tube? Just bead blasted stainless. What's the ETA?
ETA TWO WEEKS.
COST? WHAT OTHER COMPONENTS? HERE'S WHERE YOU GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=376359
Just the custom int-length Recon barrel in bead-blasted stainless, gas tube and typical phosphate Noveske VLT0R pinned gas block.
WE'RE GOING TO RESERVE ALL OF THE BARRELS FOR OUR OWN BUILDS, AT LEAST INITIALLY.
12/31/2010 2:32:36 PM
Originally Posted By WSAR15:
Sounds quite nice and very attractive. Any thoughts on a 308 barrel?
Sounds quite nice and very attractive. Any thoughts on a 308 barrel?
NO .308 BARRELS PLANNED.
12/31/2010 2:41:07 PM
Originally Posted By MSTN:
WE'RE GOING TO RESERVE ALL OF THE BARRELS FOR OUR OWN BUILDS, AT LEAST INITIALLY.
WE'RE GOING TO RESERVE ALL OF THE BARRELS FOR OUR OWN BUILDS, AT LEAST INITIALLY.
Let us know if that changes!
12/31/2010 5:24:02 PM
WES, I LOVE YOUR ALL CAPS. IT IS MUCH EASIER TO READ AND I, MYSELF PRINT IN ALL CAPS. SOMETHING I PICKED UP AT THE ACADEMY.
I DON'T WANT TO BE A COPY CAT BUT I'LL BE POSTING EVERYTHING IN CAPS UNTIL THE CAP NAZIS GET OF THEIR FRIGGEN SOAP BOX.
I DON'T WANT TO BE A COPY CAT BUT I'LL BE POSTING EVERYTHING IN CAPS UNTIL THE CAP NAZIS GET OF THEIR FRIGGEN SOAP BOX.
12/31/2010 5:40:19 PM
Fixed it!:
"smooth" is good.
When you get to shoot as many different ar' configurations as paul and i do, the difference the little things make become more easily noticed and appreciated. We like our custom uppers to run "smoothly". It is a difficult quality to quantify. See new ar' guy's critique of our 6.8 spc upper several years ago on the uppers, lowers, etc., forum, where he comments at some length on this quality in our winning entry.
Another noteworthy example regarding this "smooth" running quality came from a special forces weapons guy who took one of our 10.5" guns on deployment to the rock box. He said in training up with the new weapon, he had to recalibrate his "feel" for the platform. In his words, "it feels like the bolt is closing on an empty chamber every time, when in fact it is feeding properly." he also reported confirmed hits on some "man-size" targets at 600 yd with it. Yes, it was a sub-moa 10.5". Maybe coincidental - but probably not.
A gun that runs more smoothly implies one that runs more reliably, more consistently, and with with better accuracy. Also, a shooter can run a smooth gun faster than one that has the typical "choppy" quality to it.
We place great emphasis on getting the best quality components built to the highest tolerances in our custom builds. This means "straighter" parts, producing less friction. Another critical aspect of a weapon's "smooth" qualities are optimum porting for the gas system, recoil spring, and buffer weight, as well as proper lubrication. The ionbond diamondblack coating on the bolt carrier group components that mstn pioneered also is a big contributor to this.
It is accepted as fact at this point in time that a mid-length gas system in a 14.5" to 16" barrel produces a smoother felt recoil pulse, less wear and tear on the weapon, as well as enhanced reliability than the original format carbine length gas system. Sound suppressor usage tends to greatly exacerbate these differences, too. As a result, we would never consider using a carbine length gas system in a custom 16" build. Mid-length has been the proven way to go in the 16" for some time now.
When the new knight's armament sr15 e3 hit the streets, i was most impressed with what an outstanding job they did in balancing the recoil spring and buffer with the gas pulse in their longer than standard mid-length gas system. This rifle is as smooth running as you can find, even at its ultra-light weight, and represents a tremendous value for the money. Wearing just a generic a2 flash hider, it produces less apparent recoil than some uppers with compensators.
You'll note that the kac sr15 e3 utilizes knight's own peculiar mid-length gas system, longer than the "industry standard" mid-length. This i felt was a large part of their success. But they wanted $39 each for this gas tube ...
... So we turned to another pair of industry innovators, noveske and vltor, who came up with their own "intermediate" length gas system for 18" spr use, within a fraction of an inch of that used by knight's. It is #3 in the below photos:
"smooth" is good.
When you get to shoot as many different ar' configurations as paul and i do, the difference the little things make become more easily noticed and appreciated. We like our custom uppers to run "smoothly". It is a difficult quality to quantify. See new ar' guy's critique of our 6.8 spc upper several years ago on the uppers, lowers, etc., forum, where he comments at some length on this quality in our winning entry.
Another noteworthy example regarding this "smooth" running quality came from a special forces weapons guy who took one of our 10.5" guns on deployment to the rock box. He said in training up with the new weapon, he had to recalibrate his "feel" for the platform. In his words, "it feels like the bolt is closing on an empty chamber every time, when in fact it is feeding properly." he also reported confirmed hits on some "man-size" targets at 600 yd with it. Yes, it was a sub-moa 10.5". Maybe coincidental - but probably not.
A gun that runs more smoothly implies one that runs more reliably, more consistently, and with with better accuracy. Also, a shooter can run a smooth gun faster than one that has the typical "choppy" quality to it.
We place great emphasis on getting the best quality components built to the highest tolerances in our custom builds. This means "straighter" parts, producing less friction. Another critical aspect of a weapon's "smooth" qualities are optimum porting for the gas system, recoil spring, and buffer weight, as well as proper lubrication. The ionbond diamondblack coating on the bolt carrier group components that mstn pioneered also is a big contributor to this.
It is accepted as fact at this point in time that a mid-length gas system in a 14.5" to 16" barrel produces a smoother felt recoil pulse, less wear and tear on the weapon, as well as enhanced reliability than the original format carbine length gas system. Sound suppressor usage tends to greatly exacerbate these differences, too. As a result, we would never consider using a carbine length gas system in a custom 16" build. Mid-length has been the proven way to go in the 16" for some time now.
When the new knight's armament sr15 e3 hit the streets, i was most impressed with what an outstanding job they did in balancing the recoil spring and buffer with the gas pulse in their longer than standard mid-length gas system. This rifle is as smooth running as you can find, even at its ultra-light weight, and represents a tremendous value for the money. Wearing just a generic a2 flash hider, it produces less apparent recoil than some uppers with compensators.
You'll note that the kac sr15 e3 utilizes knight's own peculiar mid-length gas system, longer than the "industry standard" mid-length. This i felt was a large part of their success. But they wanted $39 each for this gas tube ...
... So we turned to another pair of industry innovators, noveske and vltor, who came up with their own "intermediate" length gas system for 18" spr use, within a fraction of an inch of that used by knight's. It is #3 in the below photos:
12/31/2010 6:01:09 PM
And at the end of the day we must remember that Stoner set the gas port where it belonged after considerable research for the barrel length and the new .223 cartridge characteristics.... Congratulations on your new work!
I wonder if there is a good correlation between 20" port placement, 18" port placement, 16" port placement (all with a specific port size) etc... some mathematical series. Personally, I doubt it because it is the same round and powder quantity which is "fully" consumed in a 20". Perhaps just empirical?
I wonder if there is a good correlation between 20" port placement, 18" port placement, 16" port placement (all with a specific port size) etc... some mathematical series. Personally, I doubt it because it is the same round and powder quantity which is "fully" consumed in a 20". Perhaps just empirical?
12/31/2010 6:41:39 PM
Originally Posted By MSTN:
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
Originally Posted By e-man930:
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
STAND YOUR GROUND AND FIGHT !
12/31/2010 7:00:19 PM
Originally Posted By VictorUnit:
STAND YOUR GROUND AND FIGHT !
Originally Posted By MSTN:
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
Originally Posted By e-man930:
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
STAND YOUR GROUND AND FIGHT !
PLUS ONE
WOULD HATE TO SEE YOU LEAVE, WES.
12/31/2010 9:16:27 PM
Wes, is it third from top or bottom? Longer or shorter than KAC? I've heard conflicting reports.
Also, if he could do light profile N4 barrels in this length...
Also, if he could do light profile N4 barrels in this length...
12/31/2010 9:42:21 PM
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Wes, is it third from top or bottom? Longer or shorter than KAC? I've heard conflicting reports.
Also, if he could do light profile N4 barrels in this length...
Wes, is it third from top or bottom? Longer or shorter than KAC? I've heard conflicting reports.
Also, if he could do light profile N4 barrels in this length...
IT'S THE THIRD LONGEST, 0.40" LONGER THAN THE KAC VARIETY.
12/31/2010 10:04:11 PM
Thanks Wes, I'm off to sell some stuff and I'll get back to you in a few weeks I hope...
12/31/2010 10:15:02 PM
Oh one more question, do you normally stock mounts for the Surefire M4FA? Compensators not the MB. Couldn't find reference to it. Thanks.
1/1/2011 8:50:38 AM
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Oh one more question, do you normally stock mounts for the Surefire M4FA? Compensators not the MB. Couldn't find reference to it. Thanks.
Oh one more question, do you normally stock mounts for the Surefire M4FA? Compensators not the MB. Couldn't find reference to it. Thanks.
BOTH ARE IN STOCK. A GREAT SUPPRESSOR!
1/1/2011 9:11:28 PM
I have always appreciated the manufacturers that ship barrels with a thread protector; I think they are essential. Not sure about the ones with the reservoir tip, but a thread protector is good to see.
I was looking for a 16" midlength, I may have to give one of these a try. What type of stainless are they made from?
I was looking for a 16" midlength, I may have to give one of these a try. What type of stainless are they made from?
1/2/2011 12:27:21 AM
Any chance of a LW contour w/ 1x8 twist?
Thanks
N
Thanks
N
1/3/2011 12:33:50 AM
Originally Posted By MSTN:
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
Really?! And, I thought I was whiny about nitpickers...
1/3/2011 11:34:24 AM
Originally Posted By MSTN:
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
Originally Posted By e-man930:
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
I would enjoy your post 100 times more if you would not type in "ALL CAPS"
THESE NEW GUYS ARE GIVING ME A LECTURE A DAY ON POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AR15.COM ... 2011 COMES AND I'M OUTTA HERE.
How about a long time poster saying all caps is stupid?
What does politics have to do with capitalization?
1/4/2011 1:36:24 AM
I'd imagine one would need a 12 inch rail, or longer, to get a full coverage of gas block? What would a contour be on these?
1/4/2011 9:56:47 AM
How about if you can read the damn text, CAPS OR NOT, we hold off on the criticism for anything but the product . After all , thats what were looking for, info on new and cool products being produced by quality company's, not an cyber english lesson. This is just more for the forum haters.
1/9/2011 9:03:41 PM
Wes,
How would one of these fit on an upper built with KAC Mid-length URX rails.
How would one of these fit on an upper built with KAC Mid-length URX rails.
1/12/2011 3:40:08 PM
Originally Posted By EAB:
Wes,
How would one of these fit on an upper built with KAC Mid-length URX rails.
Wes,
How would one of these fit on an upper built with KAC Mid-length URX rails.
Better yet will this work with the KAC RIFLE-length URX?
3/3/2011 8:21:04 PM
Can't wait to try it out. Thumbs up to MSTN.
16" 416R, Intermediate Gas System, pinned block, 1/8 twist 3 groove rifled.
3/6/2011 9:36:23 AM
60 day limit reached.
