help with a retro colt ar15 sp1

I have just acquired a retro colt ar15 sp1. The problem I have is the serial number. It is not scratched off but it appears as though an acid of some sort has touched it and boogered it up. IT IS STILL READABLE but def looks like it has been tampered with. I traced it back to a 1972. What do I do about the serial number? Its in excellent shape otherwise

Maybe you could have someone re-ingrave the numbers...

Messed with serial numbers and manufacturer info can cause a headache. Let's see what others suggest but as a last resort,very last,I would consult with ATF and ask their opinion as you don't want to get blamed for messing with the numbers.

I agree with m1sniper. Bet you $10 that the rifle at some point in the past was stolen. I would contact BATFE and see if the rifle is listed as stolen in their data base. If it has been, run screaming in the other direction. It's rather obvious that someone tried to obliterate the serial number to cover up that the rifle had been stolen.

Not even with an 11' pole....

This ^

If you do contact the ATF, first be sure to disassemble the rifle. If they decide it has to be seized and destroyed (which is my guess), they can seize and destroy the lower alone. You'll still have a lot of parts left to build a replacement rifle.

Question, though...was this a face-to-face acquisition? I can't imagine a licensed dealer transferring that one on the books.

Good luck!

Excellent idea Olgunner. Strip it down completely, and in the worst case, you can get an NDS lower and a conversion pivot pin and you have you're rifle back, well kinda. Beats the hell out of losing your entire setup.

Another reason I love this forum, the wisdom here is priceless.

ouch - hope you didn't pay much for it - any gun with messed up serial numbers is a sure sigh that something is amiss and should be left alone - god only know who uses this site to track down such items - I for one would have never posted pics of it - good luck

Yes,,agreed,,strip it down COMPLETELY.Only the numbered part (lower receiver) is the part they would need.

true but if it is someones stolen rifle don't you think he should get it all back - if it was yours wouldn't you want it all

Just curious but, where did you buy it? A dealer? Private party?

it was a face to face sale from a good friend, he got it from another friend in trade for some contractor work. I did not purchase it yet but did already strip it down almost to a bare lower. Does anyone have contact info for the atf on hand? Its just a dam shame cuz its a really nice piece with not much wear and I'd love to have it. And from what I understand can be worth up to 2grand. Still has original sling and m8a1 bayonnette with belt sheath

check with your friend to see if you can get some more history on it as to how it came to the first party - may not be stolen at all - might want to edit your post and get rid of the pics only a little over 200 lookers so far

Lol.....I don't mind, if it is hot and its rightfull owner pops up then I will gladly return it

i would think if it was reported stolen, any LEO could check NCIC (if thats where ALL stolen items go,not just cars) and see if its listed.
hell, if they can match numbers on a vcr they should be able to tell you if its on a "hot sheet".
and if it does come up OK, it wouldn't hurt to have the search and results documented.

just looked it up, NCIC does guns and a s pot full more.
if you had a LEO buddy, he could do it for you.
but if he gets a hit, it might go instantly by by, and you better be able to point the finger elsewhere.
the last guy that can't point a finger might be in trouble.

but its probably all good, just orange juice / citric acid spill.

You have been given very good advise except the part of a 1972 SP-1 being worth $2K much less one with boggered serial numbers (possibly a couple yrs back new and unfired in the original box with all the accessories to someone without a clue). First thing I check on any used firearm purchase is whether it's hot or not and a LEO friend does this for me. I 've missed some real nice quick cash deals over the years but much better safe than sorry. I also agree that most owners would like to get their stolen stuff back in pristine condition but that is rarely the case. Serial numbers are put on all guns today for a reason and usually altered for a reason too. As stated the parts are worth a lot more than that rifle will ever be worth. Lower may function fine but it's been turned into junk for whatever the reason. On the couple of occurances that my firearms have been checked in over 40 yrs of hobby shooting and hunting the first thing they did was make sure it was empty and then run the numbers. It's part of doing their job correctly. Sure hate to purchase an expensive lawyer over a firearm purchase from a friend of a friend. Bet you'd be singing like a canary and the friend might even do the same about you. Good way to watch basketball 24-7 in an extreme case. When crimes are committed with weapons many times the shooter walks on a deal and his buddy goes up the river. Sad but true.

See the problem is this! The serial # has been altered to a number that is not on any list! So tracing it will do no good unless the BATFE can somehow find the original number. In the future if you see a gun with a fubar'd serial #, run like hell! Even if it is a freind!

Trust me - if ATF Forensics had the mind to, they could easily reveal the original s/n number in the lab.

It is not of 1972 vintage.(6 digit serial number) I would pass on it.

according to the list at Retro Black Rifle, serial number SP 183358 was manufactured between 1971 and 1972

No it would be 1983 or so.
71 era would be a 5 digit number

Yeah, I don't think I would mess with that and even more so in that I see the OP is in NJ who gets butthurt over guns in general.

That's a fact. I've had them restore serial numbers the were much worse than this one. If it's not stolen, they can even approve having the numbers re-stamped. (of couse if it's stolen it should go back to it's owner) The last two numbers on this rifle look higher than the rest, with possible original numbers under them.

Yea I looked up the serial number, just the sp18xxxx by itself put it between 71 and 72 according to the last of numbers

Early 80's gun. I have serial number 20,XXX N.I. B. (not for sale) and it was made in '72

you're right, i blame it on public education.
plus the 180XXX puts it out the back door .
the last listing RBR has for SP-1's is 1982 and 158k, and going by the numbers gap, around 20k a year were made.

So I called the BATF today. They said as long as the number is there than the receiver is fine. The number is def there and readable. Another interesting thing they informed me of......if I decide to build on this lower, I can no longer sell the rifle according to state and federal regulations. I asked why and he responded, that I then become the manufacturer and because I don't have a manufacturing license that I can not sell it.

Btw.....they would not run the serial number unless it is already in connection with a crime

yep that's a six digit serial, I don't deal with any private sales of firarms

Hmm. That sounds about like the quality of advice I'd expect from a government employee focused more on his benefits and pension than on doing his job.
Not to be too blunt about it, but the guy sounds completely unqualified for his position.

IF it's a fine and legal receiver––it IS a firearm. Period. Assembling it with a barrel and bolt and sights and all that fancy stuff does NOT change its legal status. You most certainly do NOT become a "manufacturer" by assembling a rifle on an existing receiver.

Now, on the other hand, if you were to take an "80%" forging and turn that into a receiver, then, yes, you would be the "manufacturer." But even in that case, you could still sell that rifle in the future. You couldn't manufacture it for the purpose of selling it––that takes a license––but you could manufacture it for yourself and then someday...say, you decide to unload some firearms to buy a boat...you could sell that one as legally as anything else you own.

So let's see...our friendly gub'mint man doesn't understand what a manufacturer is (for legal purposes), and he is wrong about whether you could sell something you manufactured yourself.
...What do you think the odds are that he got the main answer right?

Hey, I am not a lawyer––but I gotta say, If you show that receiver to anyone in the agency who knows his job, I don't think you'd be bringing it back home with you.

(It ticks me the heck off that people like that guy have the power to mess up MY life and put me in jail based on his own damned incompetence.)

ugg.....maybe I'll call again tomorrow and try to get sumone else.....dammit

My initial reply about re-engraving was based on the idea that the numbers were and are readily readable. Based on looking over the photo a couple times since then, I can't be sure of that. I hope you can see them more clearly. I salute you for your forthright approach to saving a Colt. Cause I'm not sure I would have pursued it this far.

Good luck going forward

I agree with OlGunner.

That being said, I'm also not too suprised.
When I was working in a gun store years ago we occasionally would have to call the BAFT for various legal reasons ranging from making sure certain guns were legal to specific laws or whatever as they were changing different things at the time. I can't count how many times we would receive contradictory information from one agent to the next. So, we started having them FAX over information and rulings just so we could have written documentation if there were any future problems. We also might have called a few times until we received the answer we wanted and then had it FAXED over...but then thats there own fault for not knowing there own rules.

ummm ....Colt AR15's are banned in NJ by name, no matter what the ser# is.There is no such thing as pre-ban in Jersey. If you are in possession of that in Jersey, you are now a felon.

ETA: did you happen to mention to the ATF that you're a NJ resident in possession of an AR15??

And so the plot thickens....

yeah...OP you should delete this thread!!

Since this thread is surely being recorded somewhere, it's probably too late for that...

Might want to hide the dog if you have one though...
FlDiveCop71

There you have it. If it was any other state, county SO or city PD are usually pretty good about running the serial number thru NCIC if there is reason to believe it may have a problem. But NJ, I can see them confiscating it outright.

Those SP1s, you can't even emasclarate into ban configuration, the Colt AR15 is banned. Colt Sporter, Tactical Carbine, whatever, are good to go provided they are in ban configuration and mags blocked to 15rds. One of the reasons I fled the state for freedom.

Well, you can live in New Jersey and own any gun you want. You just can't HAVE it in NJ. I am sure the original poster lives in NJ but has the gun STORED out of state. Right? Good. Now that we have that covered I am sure he has nothing else to worry about from Big Brother watching these boards.

well if u look into one of my previous replies, technically all I have is the lower receiver.......the rest has been stripped and.....umm.....misplaced sumplace......possibly in my recycling. ...............

And yes.....I did tell the atf that I was a nj resident......they didn't even flinch

*Source- NJ Law 2C:39-1*



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F%&$#%k me......the only thing I can actually have in nj is my sks cuz it has a fixed magazine ?????? Wtf.....guess everything else will be at the house in georgia

Side note......notice it says "bushmaster assault rifles" ???? Guess I can't build anything with the bushmaster name? Again. WTF

as far as the feds are concerned that lower receiver is the ONLY part that is the registered weapon...the rest of it is just parts.... the lower receiver is THE weapon as far as they are concerned. Get it out of the state ASAP!

See this is where I'm f'n shot out......the guy at the atf told me the lower reciever is meaningless unless the rest of the rifle is there......and again, I told them I was a nj resident and I told them it was stamped "colt ar15“. Even after I asked them if I could build off of it they said it was OK as long as I did not build it to sell......I think I'm better off beating my face against a brick......

And BTW.....it was the Newark, nj division of the ATF

that's their piston operated rifle. before they got into ar15s.

Well if it was already in the state it's grandfathered in right? That's how some stuff is looked at in NY. Olgunner is right - the lower IS the firearm. What, you can't change parts on it? Thank God you are storing it out of state with a friend until you figure this out. Personally I recently had a terrible boating accident and lost all my AR's. It was horrible...just horrible.

nope...you were supposed to just turn them in to the local police when the ban started...no pre-ban, no grandfathering>

They actually thought people would just hand them over, instead of taking them out of the state

Unreal that this thread is still going. All this for a beater AR-15 SP-1 and in NJ to boot. You called the BATF? Wow! OP expect an unwanted visit anyday. Don't fret the NBA playoffs start up in the next couple of weeks.

So I guess I shouldn't post anymore cuz I'm from jersey ?

You certainly have a Catch 22 there. Some of the problems with having a LEO friend just "run the number" can present a problem in and of itself. All users of the NCIC/LEADS system have to log on with passwords and every key stroke if recorded under the users log in info. There has to be a legitimate (documentable ie agency report/ incident #) reason for the number to be run. More than one cop has been jammed up for doing a "favor" for a friend, like the classic tale of running a license plate on a very attractive driver for her personal info that no one will ever find out about. Using the system for "favors" can put the users in legal (criminal charges) trouble and the agency under system use suspension if they are caught.
The second issue you may have is that some jurisdictions have criminal codes for the mere possession of a firearm with defaced or altered serial number or manufacturers info whether or not you are the legitimate owner or not. This type of code doesn't care about the stolen or not stolen aspect of the firearm which would be a totally different criminal charge if it came down to prosecuting a person on a weapons offense. The photos you have show a deliberate attempt on the ser numbers area only and nothing else. Someone had some intent to hide/alter or deface them at some piont.

If you decide to try and get rid of it, one option that has been done in the past is to contact your local chief leo and explain the situation. You maybe able to "donate" the part in question to the local pd to put to good use by the agency if they think its a usable piece of equipment. No different that them using confiscated items and converting them to dept use. This part could certainly be built into a working patrol rifle or swat weapon by any dept armorer for dept use. Just my take on your situation and Good Luck with it.

M8A1 is the sheath.... The bayo is the M7........

^^^ Everything he said and then some !! ^^^

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