AR15.Com Archives
 can i make a semi into full auto legally?....
skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 8:41:30 PM
I have a colt lower (preban) stamped for military or leo use only. Can I legally make it into a fully atuo rifle? How? Thanks for the help!
fortydelta  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:42:44 PM


Civilians cannot own any FA made after May 1986.
ANGST  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:44:51 PM
Only by buying a registered lightning link or registered drop in auto sear. Expect to pay $8000 ish and have an approved ATF form 4 with $200 tax paid.
BCWMFG  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:46:05 PM
No you cannot make it full auto.it does not matter if it is pre-ban or marked Military/ LE only.

Only a manufacturer who is licensed can do so.


No automatic weapons made after May of 1986 can be owned by an individual.

skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 8:52:58 PM
my lower is from 1977...acording to the serial number
ranchhand  [Member]
10/3/2008 8:54:46 PM
It had to have been converted and registered before '86. If it is not already on file it can't be converted
ANGST  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:55:37 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
my lower is from 1977...acording to the serial number


Then is not marked LEO only (at least from the factory)

It was made as a semi auto, if you converted the lower by drilling and installing the auto sear you would of "made" a new full auto in 2008.
MMcfpd  [Life Member]
10/3/2008 8:56:16 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
my lower is from 1977...acording to the serial number


If it's not already a registered FA, it can't go there without what ANGST said.

I'm outta my depth.
ANGST  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:56:46 PM

Originally Posted By ranchhand:
It had to have been converted and registered before '86. If it is not already on file it can't be converted


Correct it must of been in the registry prior to 86 , you couldn't just "find" an unregistered MG-42 made in 1943 and have it be legal.
shrikefan  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:57:03 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
my lower is from 1977...acording to the serial number


Doesn't matter. You would be "making" the full auto Title 2 weapon after 5/86. Becoming a SOT manuf is about the only other way.
Another-Bill  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 8:57:19 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
my lower is from 1977...acording to the serial number


and so what the fuck does that mean?

The answer is NO.



Bill
skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 8:59:10 PM
okay, crap...thanks for the ifo..My local funshop just wants to sell me the parts to make it so then...thanks anyways..I think i'll spend my money buying something else....
45Bravo  [Member]
10/3/2008 9:02:17 PM
Short answer, Yes.

Long answer, you would have to buy a Registered Drop In Auto Sear (RDIAS) or a Registered Lightning Link (RLL) or Registered Auto Connector (RAC). The RLL and RAC are the same thing by a different name.

The above devices are considered conversion parts by the BATF and are required to be registered and transferred in compliance with NFA rules. The only ones you could buy would have to have been made and registered before May 19, 1986 in order to be fully transferable.

Each device requires a $200 tax to be paid before the transfer can be approved. Two forms, either Form 3 or Form 4, must be completed in duplicate, a Certification of Citizenship must be completed, two fingerprint cards, and two photographs must also be submitted.

The process can take anywhere from six weeks to six months. It just depends on which examiner you get.

Once the paperwork has been approved you can take possession of your device. Until your paperwork is approved you should not purchase full auto parts as you could be considered in constructive possession of an unregistered machine gun.

Your last problem is that the LE marked Colt lowers are a very poor choice for conversion to full auto. They have larger diameter hammer and trigger pins which preclude the use of standard M16 parts in the lower receiver.

If you really want a full auto M16 your best bet would be to just buy one rather than try to build one. Generally a RDIAS, RLL, or RAC will require timing in order to work properly and safely. If you aren't familiar with how to do that I would recommend you find someone that is.

Best of luck!
BCWMFG  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:07:21 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
okay, crap...thanks for the ifo..My local funshop just wants to sell me the parts to make it so then...thanks anyways..I think i'll spend my money buying something else....


Your local shop is breaking the law if they are trying to sell you the parts to do so.

Magoo6541  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:13:48 PM

Originally Posted By BCWMFG:

Originally Posted By skir68:
okay, crap...thanks for the ifo..My local funshop just wants to sell me the parts to make it so then...thanks anyways..I think i'll spend my money buying something else....[://


Your local shop is breaking the law if they are trying to sell you the parts to do so.



They may be selling a RLL or RDIAS. They cost $6500-$7500 and $12500-$14000 respectively. They are completely legal and are registered as machine guns by themselves. They will convert his AR a machine gun while they are installed in the host weapon.
skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 9:14:05 PM
but i can buy all the full auto parts on page 69 from browneels catalog ?
GhostRing  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:17:18 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
but i can buy all the full auto parts on page 69 from browneels catalog ?


NO.

What part of this don't you get?

Quarterbore  [Life Member]
10/3/2008 9:21:04 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
but i can buy all the full auto parts on page 69 from browneels catalog ?


Sure, and you can spend 10-years in jail with a $100,000 fine and a federal criminal record that will prevent you from ever owning any gun again as long as you live! All it takes is a few parts, a drill bit and a dremel and you might discover you like when Buba helps you hide the soap!

As for the prices above, rLightning Links start at about $8000 and DIASs start at about $10,000. Prices are soft, but that that soft!

The parts are available for those of us like myself that own legal and registered MGs.
briansmithwins  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:27:28 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
but i can buy all the full auto parts on page 69 from browneels catalog ?


You can also buy high nitrogen content fertilizer and diesel fuel. Mixing these things together tends to attract the attention of 3 letter Federal agencies.

Unless you have a legal machine gun you should not be buying machine gun parts. Even having machine gun parts and the semi-auto rifle they go to has been used to prosecute and convict people in the past. Ignorance will not help you if the ATF can make your weapons fire full auto with parts you have in your possession. They also get to file and drill holes in order to do this.

Do not mess around with this. Other have and are enjoying the dubious pleasures of Club Fed.

BSW
VAAR  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:29:09 PM
Like they said, the only way is with a RLL or RDIAS. There is no cheap way to do this. If you buy M16 parts from Brownells or anywhere else, they will send you to the big house for manufacturing a machine gun after '86.
ORinTX  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:32:00 PM

Originally Posted By BCWMFG:

Originally Posted By skir68:
okay, crap...thanks for the ifo..My local funshop just wants to sell me the parts to make it so then...thanks anyways..I think i'll spend my money buying something else....


Your local shop is breaking the law if they are trying to sell you the parts to do so.



No they're not.
Shade00  [Member]
10/3/2008 9:33:16 PM
This OP in this thread has me scared.... I think maybe he should put the Brownell's catalog down and walk away....
skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 9:36:46 PM
You guys are so cruel..Im just asking questions...I don't know, Im trying to educate myself, I really don't need all the "tude", Just help. It sounds to me like its all way to much trouble and costs way to much and might be legal issues as well.
Thanks for the lessons....
VAAR  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:44:12 PM

Originally Posted By skir68:
You guys are so cruel..Im just asking questions...I don't know, Im trying to educate myself, I really don't need all the "tude", Just help. It sounds to me like its all way to much trouble and costs way to much and might be legal issues as well.
Thanks for the lessons....


I don't think anyone means to be cruel. There are occasionally posts with questions such as yours. Everyone just wants to be sure in no uncertain terms that the posters understand that putting that auto sear in, although an easy mod with easy to find parts, will land them in really hot water with the ATF, and those guys don't full around. They will jack your ass. Some on the board have full auto's, and the rest of us are either saving up for one or dreaming about it.
edwin247  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:53:06 PM
The real answer is yes....but you have to be a Class III manufacturer.
skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 9:54:47 PM
Thank You VAAR...I get it. sorry to waste everyones time. I just wanted to know the facts.
GhostRing  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 9:54:48 PM

Originally Posted By edwin247:
The real answer is yes....but you have to be a Class II manufacturer.


isn't C3 for dealing in Title 2 weapons?
defiant1  [Member]
10/3/2008 10:02:21 PM
Keep in mind also that anyone can join this forum and there are several that are police officers and could be a fed, heck we wouldn't know for sure. The best word of advice I could give you is, do not post these type of questions on a public forum. Your name and info is not hard to get.
skir68  [Member]
10/3/2008 10:06:03 PM
woah..Im NOT at all trying to do ANYTHING illegal. I want to know the facts, Thats why Im asking questions, so I can do it legally.
ORinTX  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 10:33:55 PM

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By edwin247:
The real answer is yes....but you have to be a Class II manufacturer.


isn't C3 for dealing in Title 2 weapons?


Class 2 manufacturer, 'Class 3' weapons.

07/02


www.quarterbore.com/nfa/class3.htm
WA-Tom  [Member]
10/3/2008 10:51:47 PM
Sounds like your really itchin for a machine gun. Just like what all the others said, you can buy *registered* conversion parts (drop in auto sear or lightening link), but even then those parts must have been registered prior to May 1986 . No registration? It's not legal. Period. If your gun is papered as a machine gun trust me you would know.
Also something to take into consideration is your state laws. I live in a state that does not allow non dealer/LEO/Mil to possess any full auto. There are maybe 10 other states that are similar with their restriction on MG's. Check with ANOTHER dealer and tell this guy to go pound sand. If you want more information on a reputable MG dealer in your state, provided you can buy one legally, either e-mail me or check on the NFA discussion page on subguns.com. This website also has a NFA discussion page as well.

There are several unwritten rules about NFA/Class 3 ownership. One is you need to have money; MG's - their ammo consumption rate, and tranfer fees are expensive. Patience also helps as transfers lately have been measured in geological time frames. Common sense and respect to others go a long way in ownership. DON'T use your new toy in self defense or a crime. If you need to fuck up, use another gun. The reputation of NFA needs to be preserved as pristinely as possible. MG's and other NFA are politically incorrect and could easily be banned forever if only one person does something insanely stupid.

If you have further questions feel free to e-mail me directly machineguntom3@yahoo.com I too was in your position once and eventually became a dealer in Washington state for about 9 years. I shut down last year. If you cannot own an MG in your home state, take heart, there are likely states near you that will allow you to shoot a rented one. Again, it's who you know and just asking around for a rental place is prudent. One last thought, if you cannot buy one, renting one a couple times a year is actually cheaper than owning one. Trust me.
RMiller  [Member]
10/4/2008 12:40:10 AM

originally posted by skir68,

but i can buy all the full auto parts on page 69 from browneels catalog ?


Again, that would be a big NO, you must be a Type 07 FFL/Class II or own a legally registered Machinegun and furnish the Form 4 to purchase those parts from Brownells.
RMiller  [Member]
10/4/2008 12:47:19 AM
+1 All the way around WA-Tom!

Hell even the semi-auto versions will break you, because one is never enough!

I have one with a built in FUN SWITCH and they are an expensive habit!

RMiller
Beel  [Member]
10/4/2008 12:48:56 AM

Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
One last thought, if you cannot buy one, renting one a couple times a year is actually cheaper than owning one. Trust me.


+1!!! And going out and renting a BAR this weekend and a Tommy next weekend and an M16 the next and an M60... Ma Deuce!!!!!!!!!! ya' get the gist, is a lot more fun and one whole hell of a lot more affordable!
ranchhand  [Member]
10/4/2008 7:13:18 AM


Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
One last thought, if you cannot buy one, renting one a couple times a year is actually cheaper than owning one. Trust me.



Unless you got in when they were still cheap
edwin247  [Team Member]
10/4/2008 9:15:53 AM

Originally Posted By ranchhand:

Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
One last thought, if you cannot buy one, renting one a couple times a year is actually cheaper than owning one. Trust me.



Unless you got in when they were still cheap


I still dread thinking about that HK MP5SD for $3000.00.......damn if only I knew back then....
SYSTEM MESSAGE  
10/4/2008 9:19:38 AM
Wrong forum