Anyone have insight or info on this .308 Arrow Cartridge?

Tactical Innovations is selling it. They list Hornady Dies, a few factory ammo loadings and brass.

Looks like a 6.5G cartridge, necked up to .308.

What's the hives opinions of such a thing?

I like the idea of having 308Win power in a small package...just too new for me to bite on yet. I should go for it....but something keeps telling me to hold off.

My next build was going to be a 308 AR...it might just end up being a 308 Arrow.

I too think that while it's a rather obscure cartridge still, it will probably be the best bet for those wanting to sling .30 cal pills at fast(er) velocities from an AR15.

It should be much easier to handload for than the .30RAR, because you can form your brass from 7.62x39 casings, which are plentiful and rather inexpensive.

You will be able to have higher capacity mags than the .30RAR.

And it should use either a 7.62x39 bolt or the 6.5G bolt, meaning it'll be easier/cheaper to acquire additional/spare parts.

Like the above poster stated though, I'll probably hold off on such a thing for now.....who know's. Maybe in the future for me though.

I'm always up for another AR Variant, and more info too.

I don't think it's based on the 6.5G case - uses small rifle primers on their Dies photo, and on their 16 and 20 inch upper pages they show the Arrow at +385fps over the Grendel.

http://www.tacticalinc.com/advanced_search.php?action=search&keywords=arrow

Really? Where? If you have a source for cheap 7.62x39 reloadable brass, please advise. I've been relegated to buying the new stuff.

This looks very interesting to me....I have an AR10 but it is so much bigger than the AR15, it's not fun to lug around. a 7.62x39 chamber with a .308" diameter barrel (I think) would be ideal.

its not the funnest thing in the world but it works. and powdervalley sells the tula berdan primers

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/245983/rcbs-berdan-decapping-tool?cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Reloading+-+Dies+%26+Shellholders-_-PriceCompListing-_-245983

Looks interesting for a hog round.

Looks like either a necked up grendel or an improved 7.62x39 to me
but how they are getting over 3000 FPS with a 110 gr bullet is beyond me.
Also 2500-2600 with a 150 gr TTSX ???????

They must be using a different case because a 7.62x39 improved or necked up grendel just doesnt have enough powder capacity
to push a 150 gr TTSX to that level at 52k. Could be a stonger AI improved 7.62x39 case to run at higher pressures with a super bolt
or 30 AR bolt and extension etc.

With the small primer, maybe its a 30 PPC of some variation.

The site notes the brass as 39mm long.
The load data is 22" barrels so keep that in mind.
It will have the same bolt problems as a 7.62x39.

It will not use both a 7.62x39 or a AA grendel bolt. The grendel bolt face is .01 deeper (I think).
Probably uses the 7.62x39 bolt, and hopefully they use an MGI bolt in their build.

Looks like it beats the 300 blk numbers at 300 yards by quite a bit.
A 110 gr bullet at 3000 fps will have over 1000 fpe at 300 yards, Vs
640 for the 300 BLK if you can actually get that FPS

I will stick to my 25-223 for now but the numbers look good if they are legit.

Isn't that kinda like necking a .260 Remington up to .308?

Grendel is a small rifle primer case, and the Grendel case will take 62000 psi. If a strong bolt is used, it should be fairly easy to get good velocities with .30 cal pills, since there is very little over-bore.

Looking on Tactical Innovations site, I see that they list 6.5 Grendel/.308 Arrow mags for sale, and they're using the same Hornady shell holder for the Grendel (which also works with 7.62x39, 6 PPC, 220 Russian).

I wonder what bolt they're using.

If someone is looking for .30 cal performance out of an AR15, and these numbers are legit, this seems to give .30 RAR more than a run for its money.

Just another option for the AR15 shooter.

One thing I have learned is that the Grendel bolt is literally modeled after the original 7.62x39 Colt bolt, which has a deeper bolt face than the 5.56 bolts. The Grendel/Colt 7.62x39 bolts have a .135" bolt face depth. The 5.56 and after-market short-cut 7.62x39 bolts use the same bolt face depth.

Colt did a lot of R&D on the 7.62 short, and their work on the 7.62x39 AR was a funded project (think .gov, not regular Army). There were reasons why they chose a deeper bolt face.

The Grendel case has a lot of capacity to generate pressure, regardless of what its volume is, and the usable powder volume will increase with .308 pills because they are so short and stubby compared with 6.5mm pills. It os very conceivable that a .30 Grendel (which has been done already by AMU) will generate fast velocities.

Does look interesting and they have to be running it at 60K+ to get that sort of speed.
I assume its legit since they have published load data but I wonder if the pressures have been checked with a strain gauge..

I would imagine also they must be using a 30 AR bolt with the right face and extension or something similar.

I ran a few of those loads through quickload and and some look very high as you could imagine.

The 150 gr TTSX max load came back at 120K assuming a 38 gr h2o capacity but Ql is wrong a lot, but that is way wrong.

Grendel case is 35gr H2O. There are also start pressure considerations for the Barnes TTSX. 120k psi is way, way wrong.

I don't imagine Tactical Innovations begging for a massive series of liability suits, so it will be interesting to see what they have done.

Well what I have learned over the years is QL is just wrong with some cartridges.
Sometimes later they will adjust the data so they calc better.

It errs way to the safe side for both very deep seated bullets and barnes bullet so
its probably a combination of everything.

I know when I started loading the grendel the pressures were way to the high side also, but not that high.

I dont even know why Arrow would list a 150 gr TTSX.
Its too long for that case.

I would be extremely nervous just pulling the trigger on their start load for the 150 gr TTSX - 28 gr of RL 7 and 98K in QL 123 % fill - LOL.

Their Data must be wrong, or the case has a lot more volume.

Their data says 28 gr is not compressed 30 is compressed.
Even a 125 gr bal tip is compressed at 28 gr according to my data.


All that said after playing around a bit more, I think this might be a 30 BR variant with a rebated rim.
The photo does not show that but If I run the 30BR through QL its a lot closer to their numbers than a necked up 6.5G or 30 PPC.

A necked up 6.5G is so far off it just doesnt work at all unless they managed to get the case cap up to about 40gr or so.

Edit: Looked at it some more and by comparing the fill data from their site C and no C for the 125 and 130 gr loads, It
looks like it has a 38-39 gr capacity.

If true the 150 gr TTSX must be a mistake.
The 150 gr speer SP works though sort of but you cant load it and the TTSX to the same fill and pressure, so thats confusing.

They are getting some awfully big numbers out of that tiny shell.
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