AR15.Com Archives
 Which Upper .450 Bushmaster VS .458 Socom?
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 12:08:58 PM
Checking in to the 2 of these rounds and they both have there good/bad points. Looking to use it for hunting Black Bear, Deer.

.450 Bushmaster has a straight wall which is good for reloading, also read people were sizing down .458 bullets to fit the ..450 Bushmaster.
Brass is cheaper, ammo is cheaper. Remington and Bushmaster make the ..450 Bushmaster and ammo, so it sounds like it will be around for a while.


.458 Socom everything cost more for it, except the mags.


Which of the two are more reliable round?


Edit: Did a search and found nothing.
DM1975  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 12:11:15 PM
Search in the right forum may lead to better results. Look into the AR varriants thread or something like that and maybe that will help.
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 12:14:21 PM
Originally Posted By DM1975:
Search in the right forum may lead to better results. Look into the AR varriants thread or something like that and maybe that will help.


I did, it only lets me go back 30 days.
Big-Bore  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 12:21:17 PM
Better selection of bullets with the .458 Socom and headspaces on shoulder so trim to length and crimp are not as critical are the major differences. The headspacing on the mouth is what killed the deal for me on the .50 B. When I got into the .458S game, it and the .50 B were brand new on the market and I really wanted the .50. If nothing else, at that time 35 years of reloading everything from plinkers to elephant guns told me that I really wanted headspacing to take place on the shoulder so if need be I can crimp as much as necessary to keep bullets from either unseating or getting set back in the case. I went with the .458 S and have never looked back. As it turns out, a crimp is not really all that necessary unless shooting the 500 gr. bullets at supersonic velocities, then they tend to get beat up a little in the mag. But my reasoning still stands. If something happens and you trim a .50 B or .450 B too short, that case is trash. No problem if they headspace on the shoulder, just trim them all to the new length and adjust your dies and you can keep on shooting. This actually happened to me when I first started loading for the .458 S and the figures were kind of floating. I had gotten one set of figures and trimmed accordingly only to find out that those specs were a bit out of date and the new specs were about .005 longer in the TTL. If that had happened on the Beowulf or Bushmaster I would have had 100 unusable cases. Not so in the .458 S. In fact, I am on my 10th loading of that lot of brass and they are still going strong.
While this is no longer the case, at the time there were very few bullets in .451 (or .500 in my case) that could stand up to the higher velocities of the rifle round and that could be a real problem. Since the SOCOM uses real full diameter rifle bullets it was the only logical choice for me. If doing over today, I would still choose the SOCOM over either the Beowulf or the Bushmaster for pretty much the same reasons. Larger selection of bullets and headspaces on the shoulder. The SOCOM using standard mags was nice but was not a deal breaker to me then, but would be now. And I am not blowing smoke about choosing it again. I currently have 4 firearms chambered in the .458 SOCOM, a 20 inch, 16 inch, and 12.5 inch (SBR) rifles and a 14 inch bolt action handgun.
rick458  [Member]
10/9/2011 12:38:44 PM
The common magazine usage is Mighty handy
also the bullet choice is much better
If you reload the 458S is the winner.
If you are going all store bought the 450 probably wins
USMCBuckWild  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 12:41:33 PM
Just throwing it out there;

If you are using a standard .223/5.56 lower with a .450 upper, the .450 Bushmaster rounds fit right into a 5.56 mag. They sit single stack....

I like the .450, one of my Marines bought one. Kicked like a epileptic mule, but I think a hydraulic buffer might help with that.
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 12:48:19 PM
Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
Better selection of bullets with the .458 Socom and headspaces on shoulder so trim to length and crimp are not as critical are the major differences. The headspacing on the mouth is what killed the deal for me on the .50 B. When I got into the .458S game, it and the .50 B were brand new on the market and I really wanted the .50. If nothing else, at that time 35 years of reloading everything from plinkers to elephant guns told me that I really wanted headspacing to take place on the shoulder so if need be I can crimp as much as necessary to keep bullets from either unseating or getting set back in the case. I went with the .458 S and have never looked back. As it turns out, a crimp is not really all that necessary unless shooting the 500 gr. bullets at supersonic velocities, then they tend to get beat up a little in the mag. But my reasoning still stands. If something happens and you trim a .50 B or .450 B too short, that case is trash. No problem if they headspace on the shoulder, just trim them all to the new length and adjust your dies and you can keep on shooting. This actually happened to me when I first started loading for the .458 S and the figures were kind of floating. I had gotten one set of figures and trimmed accordingly only to find out that those specs were a bit out of date and the new specs were about .005 longer in the TTL. If that had happened on the Beowulf or Bushmaster I would have had 100 unusable cases. Not so in the .458 S. In fact, I am on my 10th loading of that lot of brass and they are still going strong.
While this is no longer the case, at the time there were very few bullets in .451 (or .500 in my case) that could stand up to the higher velocities of the rifle round and that could be a real problem. Since the SOCOM uses real full diameter rifle bullets it was the only logical choice for me. If doing over today, I would still choose the SOCOM over either the Beowulf or the Bushmaster for pretty much the same reasons. Larger selection of bullets and headspaces on the shoulder. The SOCOM using standard mags was nice but was not a deal breaker to me then, but would be now. And I am not blowing smoke about choosing it again. I currently have 4 firearms chambered in the .458 SOCOM, a 20 inch, 16 inch, and 12.5 inch (SBR) rifles and a 14 inch bolt action handgun.


WOW. Thank you for input and information on the .458 SOCOM. Been on the fence on this one and been just reading what I can on it. Do you have the reform the neck on the 458 SOCOM after shooting. Which Barrel do you like better the 20" or the 16"? Most shot will be 100-300 swamps.


How is the recoil on that .458?


Thanks again
rick458  [Member]
10/9/2011 1:18:01 PM
Recoil is a non event unless you are over loading
Honestly 200 yds will be your limit with the Socom
I run a 18" but you will be fine with a 16" I believe
it works out to 25 fps per inch
MudBug  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 2:52:53 PM
The bullet availability thing is a wash, give me any bullet that someone currently loads for the 458 and I'll make some up for my 450. I would actually argue that the 450 has access to more bullets than the 458 since it's much easier to re-size a bullet down than up (though I guess it's possible).


Look at the parent case for both.

One is a high powered rifle case, the other is a pistol case.


Those things being said, I think they both are very cool and I think you would be very happy with either of them.
Weldingrod  [Member]
10/9/2011 2:59:24 PM
The diameter of the SOCOM case is greater than that of the BM. This makes it much better suited to relaible feeding through GI magazine lips (lips bent or not).

The greater taper of the SOCOM case allows it to stack well in GI magazines. With the straighter BM this is not the case.

I have owned two SOCOMS and two BM 450s. Sold both BMs and was relieved to be able to do so.

Honestly while the 450 is a fine cartridge, the diminsions of the case (small diameter and straighter walls) are an extremely poor design for use in AR magazines (modified or not). The SOCOM is much better in this regard.

SOCOM lows are no commercially published pressure tested load data availble (that I am aware anyway), and the extractor is a pretty small hand ground part. And of course commericial ammo is quite expensive if you don't load your own.
Big-Bore  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 4:20:37 PM

WOW. Thank you for input and information on the .458 SOCOM. Been on the fence on this one and been just reading what I can on it. Do you have the reform the neck on the 458 SOCOM after shooting. Which Barrel do you like better the 20" or the 16"? Most shot will be 100-300 swamps.


How is the recoil on that .458?


Thanks again


I only FL resize the same as with the 5.56. The 20 inch I have just started working with but since it is a midlength gas it will not run with H110 and I have to start all over again with it using Re #7. My others are CAR gassed (16), handgun gassed (12.5), and no gas the bolt action pistol.
Honestly, I like the 12.5 inch best. There is no real velocity difference between the 12.5 and 16 and actually, the 14 inch barrel on the pistol is the fastest with the same loads shot on the same day. Not by much but slowest to fastest (12.5-16 inch) are all within 50 fps. I have not tested loads for the 20 inch yet in the others to see if it gains anything but I doubt it.
I do like using H110 powder though because I have found it to give the fastest velocities but the midlength gas will not tolerate it and Marty said I could not use a CAR length gas on the 20 inch barrel. IIRC something about not enough muzzle pressure with CAR gassing. The bolt action pistol is really just for kicks and giggles. It is too heavy to be shot off hand, by me anyway, with it weighing almost as much as the SBR. It is pretty much a bench shooting gun and I have started playing with some 525 gr. hard cast GC bullets in it. It's a handful but I really see no use for it except on the bench. The TC .45-70 Contender is a much better hunting gun (more power, lighter) even if the Savage does have a second round in the mag.
I have never found the recoil to be as bad as most people claim. It might be because I use a nice soft recoil pad on them or because I shoot a lot of guns with a lot more recoil than the .458 S, rifle and pistol, but I just don't see all this mule kicking that people claim they have. I find my son's 870 20 ga. with 3 inch loads to kick harder than the .458 Socom.

None of the rounds, .450 B, .50 B, or .458 SOCOM are worth a tinkers damn past 200 yards and that is stretching it IMO, so if 300 yard shots are in the works, might I suggest something else. After 200 yards the bullets in all of them are falling like a rock and a range estimation error of just 10 yards would be the difference between a hit, wound, miss at 300 yards.

By the way, Barnes does have pressure tested load data available for their 300 gr. TTSX and their 330 gr. solid. You can get it from Barnes or .458socomforums.com

gee223  [Member]
10/9/2011 6:28:45 PM
Originally Posted By THE_BUSHMAN:
Checking in to the 2 of these rounds and they both have there good/bad points. Looking to use it for hunting Black Bear, Deer.

.450 Bushmaster has a straight wall which is good for reloading, also read people were sizing down .458 bullets to fit the ..450 Bushmaster.
Brass is cheaper, ammo is cheaper. Remington and Bushmaster make the ..450 Bushmaster and ammo, so it sounds like it will be around for a while.


.458 Socom everything cost more for it, except the mags.


Which of the two are more reliable round?




Edit: Did a search and found nothing.

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.
jwb47  [Member]
10/9/2011 8:32:50 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By rick458:
Recoil is a non event unless you are over loading
Honestly 200 yds will be your limit with the Socom
I run a 18" but you will be fine with a 16" I believe
it works out to 25 fps per inch[/quote

to quote the duke "windage and elevation mrs smith "
300 yds or farther is possible you just have to have the right optic and learn your come -ups. is shooting a deer at that range ethical ? It can be debated until hell freeze's over and I am not going to get into it.
I can and do shoot that far quite often, here are a couple of targets I shot with hornady 325 ftx and reloader 7 at the 300 yd mark . 100 yd zero and 3.7 mil come up
before you ask I was using a 10 shot mag off the bench so that explains the 4 shots






JoshAston  [Life Member]
10/9/2011 9:19:12 PM
Originally Posted By gee223:

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.


You can't make .458 Socom brass from .308. Rim size is the same, but that's about it. .458 uses a rebated rim, the cartridge is considerably fatter than the .308.
HEATH223  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 9:27:56 PM
Originally Posted By jwb47:
[quote]Originally Posted By rick458:
Recoil is a non event unless you are over loading
Honestly 200 yds will be your limit with the Socom
I run a 18" but you will be fine with a 16" I believe
it works out to 25 fps per inch[/quote

to quote the duke "windage and elevation mrs smith "
300 yds or farther is possible you just have to have the right optic and learn your come -ups. is shooting a deer at that range ethical ? It can be debated until hell freeze's over and I am not going to get into it.
I can and do shoot that far quite often, here are a couple of targets I shot with hornady 325 ftx and reloader 7 at the 300 yd mark . 100 yd zero and 3.7 mil come up
before you ask I was using a 10 shot mag off the bench so that explains the 4 shots

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f247/jwb47/e28db4d8.jpg?t=1274042727

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f247/jwb47/8215e51d.jpg?t=1274042775




Nice shooting. I went with the .458 as well and started reloading B/C of it. I LOVE IT! Good points have been made above as to why I went with it.
HEATH223  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 9:30:22 PM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By gee223:

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.


You can't make .458 Socom brass from .308. Rim size is the same, but that's about it. .458 uses a rebated rim, the cartridge is considerably fatter than the .308.


A couple of mine.

tallamong  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:34:19 PM
A buddy of mine has a 458 and he likes it. I like it too. It is a real thumper but nothing you would really even be concerned with. Great knock down power.

All that said. the 458 is a proprietary round and I don't like that as a basic rull. The military uses the 450 and there are several companies that load and have parts. I like that. [edit: seals use whatever they want to use to complete thier missions. I think the 450 is an issue weapon for the marines and army. This is what I am told at least by a guy in the NatGrd.]

The balistics differences are negligible. both are anti-personel rounds that will do a number on soft armor and light vehicles. Both can run single stack from standard mags with mag tuning on an ar15 lower. Both are good to 200 yards. Anything further and you have the wrong gun entirely. You loose a lot of velocity with a bullet that wide going through the air. Any medium round is better at that distance. even a 5.56 penetrator would compare at that distance.
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:35:04 PM
Originally Posted By gee223:
Originally Posted By THE_BUSHMAN:
Checking in to the 2 of these rounds and they both have there good/bad points. Looking to use it for hunting Black Bear, Deer.

.450 Bushmaster has a straight wall which is good for reloading, also read people were sizing down .458 bullets to fit the ..450 Bushmaster.
Brass is cheaper, ammo is cheaper. Remington and Bushmaster make the ..450 Bushmaster and ammo, so it sounds like it will be around for a while.


.458 Socom everything cost more for it, except the mags.


Which of the two are more reliable round?




Edit: Did a search and found nothing.

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.

You mean .284 Winchester?
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:37:32 PM
Originally Posted By jwb47:
[quote]Originally Posted By rick458:
Recoil is a non event unless you are over loading
Honestly 200 yds will be your limit with the Socom
I run a 18" but you will be fine with a 16" I believe
it works out to 25 fps per inch[/quote

to quote the duke "windage and elevation mrs smith "
300 yds or farther is possible you just have to have the right optic and learn your come -ups. is shooting a deer at that range ethical ? It can be debated until hell freeze's over and I am not going to get into it.
I can and do shoot that far quite often, here are a couple of targets I shot with hornady 325 ftx and reloader 7 at the 300 yd mark . 100 yd zero and 3.7 mil come up
before you ask I was using a 10 shot mag off the bench so that explains the 4 shots

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f247/jwb47/e28db4d8.jpg?t=1274042727

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f247/jwb47/8215e51d.jpg?t=1274042775




Very nice shooting. The 45-70 can hit out to 1000 meters with the right bullet, powder, rifle, sights and shooter.

I just see me with the Creedmore tang sights on and AR
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:39:20 PM
Originally Posted By HEATH223:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By gee223:

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.


You can't make .458 Socom brass from .308. Rim size is the same, but that's about it. .458 uses a rebated rim, the cartridge is considerably fatter than the .308.


A couple of mine.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa185/heath223/002-29.jpg
Nice rounds, you have to roll your own or you will go broke.

gee223  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:41:18 PM
Originally Posted By HEATH223:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By gee223:

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.


You can't make .458 Socom brass from .308. Rim size is the same, but that's about it. .458 uses a rebated rim, the cartridge is considerably fatter than the .308.


A couple of mine.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa185/heath223/002-29.jpg

My bad, I must have been thinking 7.62x39, and for the 6.5 Grendel.

Isn't there a relatively common brass that you can use? .358win? I don't reload and don't have a SOCOM... Yet! It's legal for deer in Indiana so I've researched it, but it's been a while.


Edit- .284, thanks The_Bushman.
HEATH223  [Team Member]
10/9/2011 9:42:01 PM
Originally Posted By tallamong:
Both can run single stack from standard mags with mag tuning on an ar15 lower.


Mine has run 100% on USGI, PMAG's & HK clones UNMODIFIED! I did have a couple issues with Lancers early on in my loading and gave up on them but now that I have some good loads I might try them again.
tallamong  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:51:30 PM
My buddies 458 likes the rounds canted up at the front just a smidge. just have to open the feed lips a little at the front. I am sure this is a band-aid fix and there is something else going on but it runs like a champ even still. still feeds 223/556 out of the adjusted mags too.
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:51:34 PM
Originally Posted By tallamong:
A buddy of mine has a 458 and he likes it. I like it too. It is a real thumper but nothing you would really even be concerned with. Great knock down power.

All that said. the 458 is a proprietary round and I don't like that as a basic rull. The military uses the 450 and there are several companies that load and have parts. I like that.

The balistics differences are negligible. both are anti-personel rounds that will do a number on soft armor and light vehicles. Both can run single stack from standard mags with mag tuning on an ar15 lower. Both are good to 200 yards. Anything further and you have the wrong gun entirely. You loose a lot of velocity with a bullet that wide going through the air. Any medium round is better at that distance. even a 5.56 penetrator would compare at that distance.
I thought the.458socom was used by the seals, elite forces for takeing hinges off ship doors. I look at it this was Way, the 45LC, .44 mag have killed most game in North America. SO the .458socom .& 450 Bushmaster have more mo-jo than both the 44mag and the 45LC.
SYSTEM  
10/9/2011 9:53:49 PM
Topic Moved
THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 9:59:21 PM
Originally Posted By gee223:
Originally Posted By HEATH223:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By gee223:

Actually, using standard 45-70 bullets and fire forming your own brass from chopped .308 cases should make the .458 SOCOM cheaper I would think.


You can't make .458 Socom brass from .308. Rim size is the same, but that's about it. .458 uses a rebated rim, the cartridge is considerably fatter than the .308.


A couple of mine.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa185/heath223/002-29.jpg

My bad, I must have been thinking 7.62x39, and for the 6.5 Grendel.

Isn't there a relatively common brass that you can use? .358win? I don't reload and don't have a SOCOM... Yet! It's legal for deer in Indiana so I've researched it, but it's been a while.


Edit- .284, thanks The_Bushman.
NP, It is all I been reading on today.

THE_BUSHMAN  [Member]
10/9/2011 10:01:15 PM
Originally Posted By HEATH223:
Originally Posted By tallamong:
Both can run single stack from standard mags with mag tuning on an ar15 lower.


Mine has run 100% on USGI, PMAG's & HK clones UNMODIFIED! I did have a couple issues with Lancers early on in my loading and gave up on them but now that I have some good loads I might try them again.
I had read today ppl had good luck with the 556 Sig mags,. Anyone hear that?

JoshAston  [Life Member]
10/9/2011 10:01:53 PM
Originally Posted By tallamong:

The military uses the 450


Any links to back that up? First I've ever heard of any of the big bores being used by the .mil.
RuLins05  [Member]
10/9/2011 10:55:36 PM
Originally Posted By THE_BUSHMAN:
Originally Posted By HEATH223:
Originally Posted By tallamong:
Both can run single stack from standard mags with mag tuning on an ar15 lower.


Mine has run 100% on USGI, PMAG's & HK clones UNMODIFIED! I did have a couple issues with Lancers early on in my loading and gave up on them but now that I have some good loads I might try them again.
I had read today ppl had good luck with the 556 Sig mags,. Anyone hear that?



I use the Sig mags for my 450 and they run perfectly. I looked into both heavily and went with the 450. The price alone was worth it to me let alone the parts and ammo availability. You can pick up the 450 upper for pretty cheap when Bushmaster runs their fall and tax season sales. I got mine for $499, don't think there are any 458 uppers for anything around that.
Weldingrod  [Member]
10/9/2011 11:59:58 PM
Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
By the way, Barnes does have pressure tested load data available for their 300 gr. TTSX and their 330 gr. solid. You can get it from Barnes or .458socomforums.com



Big Bore - I can't find that Barnes data on their website or on the 458 socom forum. Could you please provide a link? Thanks!
OlsenG_360  [Member]
10/10/2011 1:04:28 AM
Originally Posted By RuLins05:
Originally Posted By THE_BUSHMAN:
Originally Posted By HEATH223:
Originally Posted By tallamong:
Both can run single stack from standard mags with mag tuning on an ar15 lower.


Mine has run 100% on USGI, PMAG's & HK clones UNMODIFIED! I did have a couple issues with Lancers early on in my loading and gave up on them but now that I have some good loads I might try them again.
I had read today ppl had good luck with the 556 Sig mags,. Anyone hear that?



I use the Sig mags for my 450 and they run perfectly. I looked into both heavily and went with the 450. The price alone was worth it to me let alone the parts and ammo availability. You can pick up the 450 upper for pretty cheap when Bushmaster runs their fall and tax season sales. I got mine for $499, don't think there are any 458 uppers for anything around that.


Legal Transfers in the EE has RRA .458 uppers for $649 shipped. Not exactly five hundred bucks, but it's still not a huge expense for an oddball caliber upper.
knight_dive  [Team Member]
10/10/2011 1:22:35 AM
Originally Posted By Weldingrod:
Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
By the way, Barnes does have pressure tested load data available for their 300 gr. TTSX and their 330 gr. solid. You can get it from Barnes or .458socomforums.com



Big Bore - I can't find that Barnes data on their website or on the 458 socom forum. Could you please provide a link? Thanks!


Barnes Data Check the link at the bottom of the first post

Also, Western Powders (Accurate and Ramshot) has data available. Accurate Data

Both of them should be available directly from the manufacturer if you contact them via email.

MudBug  [Team Member]
10/10/2011 9:17:00 AM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By tallamong:

The military uses the 450


Any links to back that up? First I've ever heard of any of the big bores being used by the .mil.



I don't think there is any info about them actually being used or issued, but there where some purchase orders for them.

I don't know where to find them though, and nobody really knows why they were ordered. Heck, it could have just been for some security guys to remove feral hogs from some base property.
Powder_Burns  [Member]
10/10/2011 7:07:54 PM
For clarification, the .458 Socom case is an original case. The prototype was devised using a .50AE, but no production brass for .458 Socom is formed from another case. Furthermore, the operating pressures of the round nullify the requirement for a high-pressure rated case. This also suggests that the brass doesn't fatigue as fast as a cartridge working with considerably higher chamber pressures.

BTW, I know a team commander of a super elite group of ninja seal delta operator space shuttle door gunners and they all swear by the .499 LW and also carry double barreled desert eagles and quad railed integrally suppressed tactical revolvers in .41 rem mag equipped with larue vfg's and atlas bipods. I'd cite my sources but they are super confidential and security clearance is only given on a need-to-know basis.
Fritzcat  [Member]
10/10/2011 10:54:18 PM
The first brass I was able to get was from the first ARFCOM group buy, it was straight wall and has 50 AE. The rim is slightly larger and all I had to do was run through die and trim. Last Sat I bulit a 458S with a 9 1/2" barrel and a 50 AE bolt open up slightly and the rest AR15 parts. Rem 405gr FP,sub-sonic, Trail Boss and unique powders.
Gunwritr  [Team Member]
10/10/2011 11:31:01 PM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By tallamong:

The military uses the 450


Any links to back that up? First I've ever heard of any of the big bores being used by the .mil.


State Dept had .50 Beowulfs in Iraq. I know they used them for shooting vehicles from helicopters, straight
down into the hood. Dunno if they are still using them or not.

Of the two stated I like the .458 SOCOM. I like the bullet selection and performance. Accuracy of my Tromix
14.5 inch carbine is fantastic. I love it. I just wish ammo was cheaper and more available. But if I were to do
it again, I'd still go with the .458 SOCOM, it is the only big bore I own......