AR15.Com Archives
 AR10 vs. HK91
d5griffin  [Member]
9/11/2008 2:29:52 AM
I know I'm on AR15.com, but if you guys had to choose 1 gun to have (and its the only rifle) would it be a AR10 or HK91/clone?

My current funds constrict me to one fun gun at a time. I've been thinking, between shotgun/pistol (necessities) my AR holds a task of 25-100m. My funds would be better allocated into a longer range rifle. To me a ranged 5.56 is the wrong tool for the job, and 6.8/6.5 dont interest me. Therefore I'm looking for a semi auto .308/7.62...

My heart was set on a HK91 but I havent heard too great of reviews which makes me second guess myself.

No FAL suggestions please, i dont care for them.

Pros/Cons of each and why you would go with either would help my decision. AR10/HK91/other...?

I would use it for hunting (deer), plinking (mostly) , zombies, and TEOTWAWKI
(Jamming doesnt matter in a HK91 when hunting, hopefully I wont need 20 shots)

Thanks
TaylorWSO  [Life Member]
9/11/2008 5:46:24 AM
308 AR,

bedside's being a more accurate platform for cheaper, you really can have a unlimited "types" of rifles, Get a LR upper for paper/1000yrds, or push the pins and slap on a carbine upper for the zombies. Add a lightweight 18" upper for hunting-really unlimited


Really not a fan of the sights, scope mounts, limited rail options on a 91.
cheap mags sure, but then get a cmmg lower if thats a concern
LastDefender  [Team Member]
9/11/2008 7:14:18 AM
I have an H&K 91 and the only thing I can think of that makes it a superior choice to any of the AR-10's I've shot in my life is the "cool" factor. They just look cool!

Other than that, for what a real 91 costs, I would get the Armalite SASS.
TxLewis  [Life Member]
9/11/2008 8:57:15 AM
I'll put my ar-10Tc against any .308 battle rifle.

It's that good.

TXL
SGB  [Team Member]
9/11/2008 10:13:10 AM
AR10
hartzpad  [Member]
9/11/2008 10:35:00 AM
I have all 3 platforms: DPMS .308 carbine, HK G3 clone, CETME .308 and 16" FAL Carbine. FAL, HK and CETME are tied for reliability, never had any of them malfunction. DPMS can be picky about ammo, but if you feed it quality factory ammo and don't load more than 16 rounds in the mag, it will be reliable. Like the HK sights, love the FAL charging handle over the AR and HK, HK has no bolt hold open. AR definitely wins in the accuracy department. I would not bet my life on my AR but I would on any of the others.

My favorite to shoot at the range: AR .308

My go to .308 rifle for any defense situation would easily be the FAL because of reliability (with easily adjustable gas system), bolt hold open magazines and superior ergonomics to any of the other rifles (including the AR).

For hunting, it's easily the AR.

CETME is the best value, only cost me $300 about 3 years ago.
AR-180  [Member]
9/11/2008 10:48:20 AM
A properly constructed G3 is utterly reliable. I has more recoil. It is tougher on brass.

The 308 AR is less proven. However, it is more accurate and can be tailored to your situation at any point.
ffhounddog  [Team Member]
9/11/2008 10:54:02 AM
308 AR.

The HK91 screws up your brass for reloads.
Tri-C  [Team Member]
9/11/2008 1:41:37 PM
I had a CETME and got rid of it because my thumb wasn't long enough to manupulate the safety easily and quietly while hunting. Cool gun though.
Essayons  [Team Member]
9/11/2008 2:29:31 PM
FWIW


As with the Dutch tests the FAL again emerged victorious, however the AR-10 came in second beating out both the CETME and StG 57.

* * *

The South African trials were the last time any nation would conduct an evaluation that would pit the AR-10 against the FAL. It should be thoroughly understood that triumphing over the CETME and StG 57 was in and of itself quite an accomplishment . . .


From The ArmaLite AR10 page 69

Not quite apples-to-apples comparison--the Artillerie Inrichtingen AR10s tested by the Dutch and South Africans weren't today's commercial AR10s, and the CETME isn't exactly an HK91. FWIW, the Portuguese used AR10s in Angola and Mozambique and only turned to the G3 after Artillerie Inrichtingen terminated AR10 production.
osprey21  [Life Member]
9/11/2008 2:47:47 PM
Apples & Oranges
Southern_Raider  [Member]
9/11/2008 3:19:24 PM
IMHO, an HK is probably the best out of the box, iron sight, MBR available to us.

However, an HK will always be what it is. Despite all the people that tell you how modular it is, it really isn't. This isn't 1965, the cold war is over and you may want to upgrade it with say...optics. Not as easy as you might think to do well.

A good working 308 AR, is an ergonomic pleasue, with plenty of drop in upgrades.
garr  [Team Member]
9/11/2008 3:46:05 PM
No comparison, AR10 Type rifles have it all over HK91,
ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
9/12/2008 12:18:43 AM
I don't have a HK91. I want one. I think the look cool and are neat rifles. but if it was one or the other......308 AR....

My Semi Auto 308s:

Cetme (sold it years ago because I wanted to reload my 308 brass)
AR10 Carbine (ammo picky)
ASA Side Charger - nice rifle, needs quality ammo, very accurate.
L1A1 - eats anything and everything, this is my trusty old Iron sited MBR, will never sell.
POF 308s

out of all of them, my POF is the most accurate. just as realiable as the FAL....have not had any issues with ammo like with my other 2 AR 308 rifles......some my say I am biased, maybe I am....but my POF just keeps proving itself to me again and again.
JFA  [Member]
9/12/2008 11:17:05 AM
You can't say these aren't cool:

http://www.streetpro.com/usp/hkrifle.html

.....and expensive. You can't say the PSG-1 isn't accurate either.
NoAim  [Member]
9/12/2008 5:23:57 PM

Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
IMHO, an HK is probably the best out of the box, iron sight, MBR available to us.

However, an HK will always be what it is. Despite all the people that tell you how modular it is, it really isn't. This isn't 1965, the cold war is over and you may want to upgrade it with say...optics. Not as easy as you might think to do well.

A good working 308 AR, is an ergonomic pleasue, with plenty of drop in upgrades.


Agreed. I have a few H&Ks in both 7.62 and 5.56. They are loads of fund and very reliable. But, they are what they are. Basically I treat them like AKs. They are dirty, reliable, ergos stink, and optics mounting is horrible. But, if you use them as an iron sighted battle rifle, they are great. the 5.56's are really smooth.

Then you get to the 308 AR. It has the same great AR-15 ergos, easy optics mounting, better intrinsic accuracy, and tends to be much more modular.

I have both, I like both. But they are different creatures.
bushflyr  [Member]
9/12/2008 5:36:47 PM
FAL. Oh wait, AR-10. I've shot quite a few flavors of HK and not one has failed to disappoint.

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

That always crackers me up.
Cold  [Moderator]
9/12/2008 6:29:45 PM

Originally Posted By bushflyr:
FAL. Oh wait, AR-10. I've shot quite a few flavors of HK and not one has failed to disappoint.

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

That always crackers me up.


You might think they suck and you might hate them... I do not. I guess it just depends what your doing with them.
malsikcuf  [Member]
9/12/2008 6:38:54 PM
HK. Because you suck.....

That article is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time, almost pissed myself.

He hit the square nail right into the round hole!

This is coming from someone who owns a HK91
malsikcuf  [Member]
9/12/2008 8:36:34 PM


You might think they suck and you might hate them... I do not. I guess it just depends what your doing with them.


Reasonable people could debate forever the merits of the designs of HK equipment, but one thing is simply beyond question, HKs civilian public relations is beyond horrendous!

I used to think Colt was bad, but HK could even show Colt a thing or two about how piss off the buying public.

Of course you do have to give Colt the fact that they managed to take an American Icon and run the company into the ground! Colt a company with a tradition of great products, but it is run by sphincters.
Cold  [Moderator]
9/12/2008 8:46:54 PM

Originally Posted By malsikcuf:


You might think they suck and you might hate them... I do not. I guess it just depends what your doing with them.


Reasonable people could debate forever the merits of the designs of HK equipment, but one thing is simply beyond question, HKs civilian public relations is beyond horrendous!


I am not here to debate their P.R. dept. The tech forums are about the design, function, etc

The interactions I have had with them have been good but again I am not everyone and based on the large amount of distain for their public relations seems to need a tune up.

However they still make and deliver a proven product on a consistent basis and to me thats all that matters. I agree we could argue all day about function etc as well.
Big-Bore  [Team Member]
9/12/2008 10:12:07 PM
I have both. Both are excellent. Short of the PSG-1 IMO the AR-10/LR-308 is going to be the more accurate out of the box and for what it costs to buy one super accurate PSG-1 you could buy 5 fully tricked out and highly accurized AR-10/LR-308s and still have enough money for a case of match ammo. AR .308 rifles of $1K generally hold MOA out of the box and while a HK-91 can do it also, you are not going to find one for $1K. And the clones you do find at $1K may or may not-most not-be capable of that kind of accuracy. And by the time you trick out an AR to shoot 1/4 MOA you still have less than 1/5th the cost of a PSG-1 which MIGHT be able to hold 1/4 MOA.
The AR-10/LR-308's fired cases are not nearly as chewed up as are the cases out of the 91. Although a port buffer reduces the damage, damage is still done to a lot greater extent than with the AR platform so IMO the AR platform is the more logical choice for the reloader.
Also IMO, the 91 platform is a lot more forgiving when it comes to eating anything you feed it and being as reliable as the sun coming up. This type of reliability may or may not hold true for the 91 clones.
If you want a collector's piece that you can shoot the hell out of and sell it for more than you paid for it in 10 years, the HK-91 is the hands down without a doubt winner. I doubt any of the AR platform 308s will ever appreciate in value like the 91 has. This situation would not hold true for 91 clones.
The AR platform rifles are more easily modified, more easily broken down, and many more accessories available for them. As already mentioned, scoping an AR is a lot easier than scoping a 91.

Pick your poison. Either way you have picked a winner.
Ofreenbean  [Member]
9/13/2008 12:40:03 PM
I'd suggest firing an HK91 before shelling out the considerable bucks they want for one. The stock sucks for me and many other people. It seems to me it wasn't designed to be used by us Earthlings. I always warned people about the hump before letting them shoot it the first time, but even then they'd invaribly get thumped in the cheekbone. It would get me occasionally, even after I lengthened the stock.

I had one for a few years, and put 4000 rounds through it, all handloads. You can reduce the damage to brass with judicious powder choices. The fluting is not a problem. Usually the rim is distorted/chewed, making it difficult or impossible to get the case into the shellholder.

Reliability was flawless and it ate anything that would go into the chamber. Accuracy was excellent. It looked pretty much the same after all those rounds as it did when it started. It gave the impression it would never wear out or break. But one day it nailed me in the cheekbone yet again, so I said screw this and sold it (for almost twice what I paid for it.)
Aimless  [Site Staff]
9/13/2008 12:45:15 PM
My HK91 is extremely reliable, my ar10, wellllll, not exaaaaaactly.

I'd rather have a reliable 308 AR than an HK91 though.
Loaf  [Member]
9/14/2008 10:06:54 PM
LMFAO !!!

I'm an H&K owner x 3. Lots of thruths to the superiority/inferiority complex, real or imagined.

Great post !!