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 DPMS LR-308 Accuracy?
Master0fEvil  [Member]
2/3/2007 4:05:16 PM
Hey,
I am looking at buying a precision rifle, i am looking to buy a Savage 10fp w/ HS Precision stock, but i am having trouble finding one. I have seen the DPMS LR-308's before, and i liked them. I will end up buying an auto .308 someday, so i figure why not now. How is the accuracy on this rifle? Sub MOA? Will it be able to compete with the Savage 10fp, or is it not even close? I am planning to shoot out to 600 yards, and possibly 1000 yards every once in a while. Will the DPMS maintain Sub MOA accuracy at 600 yards w/ hand loaded match ammo?

Also, is there a lot of difference between the stock trigger (I have heard is crappy) compared to the JP Trigger they offer?

Thanks for your help
HBruns  [Team Member]
2/3/2007 4:23:48 PM
The LR-308 has a reputation for good accuracy.
cujet  [Member]
2/3/2007 6:33:56 PM
First time out today with my new LR-308. it took 5 rounds to get the (super sniper) scope close, but a good steady wind prevented a perfect zero. After that my performance was excellent. 100YD.

The range was busy with quite a few shooters. I felt like a hero! By the end of the session, the rounds were going through the same holes! Even with the stiff wind. I let the rounds fly about 2 inches left and called it good for the day.

However the rifle had some major failure to feed issues. Huge dents in the cases. The rounds are getting hung up at an angle on the way into the chamber. I used all new, name brand higher end ammo, Black Hills, Federal and Winchester.

I did not notice at first, as I only put 1 round into the chamber, then cleaned for the first box of ammo.

I think the mag lips need some work and the internals need a smooth and polish.

By the way, at this point, I am not unhappy, as the accuracy seems to be exactly what I wanted. MOA or better. I had a huge smile when I looked at the ragged hole in the target with 20 or so rounds through it. I believe these are well documented feed issues and I probably have the very same issues that others have had. We shall see.

cujet

Master0fEvil  [Member]
2/3/2007 7:59:33 PM
cujet, thanks for the reply.

Do you know how these rifles will perform at longer ranges? It seems like you printed a pretty respectable group at 100 yards, but will that hold up a 500, 750, 900 yards? I will be shooting with some high-end bolt guns, would they out shoot the LR-308?
Thanks
Tight-Line  [Member]
2/3/2007 9:36:44 PM
mine will shoot 0.5 MOA at 200 as long as I don't foul things up. I did replace the trigger with a Jewel. The rifle out shoots my FN SPR hands down. It is the most accurate rifle that I own in any caliber!

Shooting for precision is tough with an auto loader unless you single load. The action can be abusive to bullet tips that will ppen up groups. That being said the rifle will still shoot well inside MOA in semi auto. The only hang up is the standard AR trigger, replace that and you are good to go.
cujet  [Member]
2/3/2007 11:44:55 PM
I am sorry to say that I do not know "for sure" how the accuracy will be at longer ranges. However, MOA is just that, A tick more than 1 inch accuracy at 100 and 2 at 200 and so on.

After looking at the groups that others got today and contrasting them with my results, I feel confident that the LR-308 will be sub MOA. That is as good as I could ever ask for, and better than I am.

Another thing, the bolt guys today were waiting for the barrels to cool after every round. I am certainly not going to do that. And I outshot every one of them.

By the way, it sure looks like the mag was at fault for the failure to feed, The LH rounds were hanging up in the back of the mag on a rib. I took a dremel to it and they cycle through by hand no problem now. We shall see.

cujet
infsqdldr  [Team Member]
2/4/2007 10:17:50 AM
the mags def need modded. take the edge off the feed lips and the front wall. i was uniforming meplates until i extracted a live round and saw it mashed to hell. ive only shot to 400yds, was hitting golf balls though. 180gr matchkings. def get the 24" for long range, a3 upper.
Master0fEvil  [Member]
2/4/2007 3:54:58 PM
Golf Balls at 400 yards seems pretty good.

If you compare this rifle (24") with the Savage 10fp (HS Stock), how much better will the Savage be accuracy wise?
cujet  [Member]
2/4/2007 4:07:11 PM
Every rifle is an individual. Some will be sub MOA and some will not. Your question is not and easy one to answer. As I said in my previous post, I was more accurate with the LR-308 than everyone else at the range. Very expensive bolt guns included. Consider this, the OEM trigger on the LR is creepy and has 29 pounds of pull (not really, but maybe 8). This is a factor too. Those expensive bolt guns all have good triggers with light pull and crisp break. This makes it easy to stay on target.

At this point, I would say that the LR is a good match for bolt guns. Not better or worse.

Please keep in mind that the shooter is not as accurate as the gun.

cujet
Fountain1  [Member]
2/4/2007 4:21:11 PM
I have shot many .5 moa 5 round groups at 100yds. I have not shot it at beyond 200 yards yet. I have noticed mine likes 168gr or 175gr federal gold match. The stock trigger is a little sloppy get a after market one and it will run with good bench rest rifles.
mudd007  [Member]
2/4/2007 9:28:49 PM
One would probably not suggest a 16" barrel for accuracy, however my DMPS has made me wonder. I shoot better groups at 100 yards (no FTF's) with the DPMS LR-308 than I do with my Remington 700 target barrel 25-06. Nothing but impressive in my point of view. Sorry, can't help you with longer shots. .60 MOA with an aimpoint bty, and a nikon buckmaster on the rem shotting under 1".Could be me though.
poi600  [Member]
2/5/2007 12:09:48 AM
I shoot with some pretty demanding target shooters that shoot scores up in the 600 x 600 with 50 to 58 X count, I have yet to see a gas gun shoot that tight at six hundred yards. If you are serious about shooting some competitive scores, better pick up a full built bolt gun and learn how to reload ammo.
Ghostface  [Member]
2/5/2007 10:46:28 AM
While I do not own a LR308 I do own an AR-10T. My rifle is sub MOA at 300 yards all day long. I have only shot it out that far. This year I plan to join a 1K range and I will see how accurate my rifle is. I am a semi auto type of guy but I have to admit that a bolt gun will be more accurate than the semi. The semi in this day and age will hang with a bolt gun but it will not be as accurate. I make this statement comparing LTRs, PSSs, FN SPRs etc. I say you must ask yourself how much accuarcy do you desire. If you need razor edge precision then get yourself a bolt gun. If you need MOA or 3/4 MOA with the ability to shoot quick follow up shots then get yourself an LR308 or a AR-10T.
wgungho  [Member]
2/5/2007 11:56:05 AM
I've got a Savage 12bvss and a DPMS 24", both with identical Nikon 6.5-20x scopes. At 100 yards they both shoot sub-MOA, with the DPMS having shot a .45' 5 round group. At 400 yards the DPMS has shot a 5 round 2 1/2" group. The Savage opened up to about 3 1/2". I didn't shoot the 400 yard groups-my old eyes won't do it any more-but the young marine who did the shooting is pretty good.
Master0fEvil  [Member]
2/5/2007 4:27:47 PM
Thanks for all the replies, i appreciate it!

I am going to be shooing at 600 yards very regularly, and i will be shooting with some guys with some very nice bolt guns. I want a gun that has very good accuracy. At this distance, i am assuming that a Savage 10FP or 700PSS will be able to outshoot the LR-308, with and equal shooter. Would this assumption be correct, or incorrect?
cujet  [Member]
2/5/2007 11:02:59 PM
It is not possible to assume such a thing, and I truly believe that anyone who gives a conclusive answer to this question needs to be carefully questioned. I have and like the accuracy of bolt guns. However, the accuracy of both can be great.

The LR-308 can be considered to have a match grade barrel. You already know that some will be better than others.

Take a look at accuracy systems for information on guaranteed accuracy on gas guns. They match or exceed bolt guns. I can see no technical reason for a lack of accuracy in a gas gun.

I went to the range again today. The LR is good enough to draw with!

If you want a bolt gun, get one. A good Remington 700 is hard to beat. If you want a gas gun, the LR is an option. As I said already, the LR outperformed a bunch of very expensive bolt guns this weekend. And it did this on it's first time out.

cujet
infsqdldr  [Team Member]
2/5/2007 11:38:56 PM

Originally Posted By cujet:
It is not possible to assume such a thing, and I truly believe that anyone who gives a conclusive answer to this question needs to be carefully questioned. I have and like the accuracy of bolt guns. However, the accuracy of both can be great.

The LR-308 can be considered to have a match grade barrel. You already know that some will be better than others.

Take a look at accuracy systems for information on guaranteed accuracy on gas guns. They match or exceed bolt guns. I can see no technical reason for a lack of accuracy in a gas gun.

I went to the range again today. The LR is good enough to draw with!

If you want a bolt gun, get one. A good Remington 700 is hard to beat. If you want a gas gun, the LR is an option. As I said already, the LR outperformed a bunch of very expensive bolt guns this weekend. And it did this on it's first time out.

cujet


standard grade wilson barrel, not match. only thing i know of that makes a gas gun less accurate is the feed ramps. im sure a gas gun with a good match barrel will outshoot a lower end stock bolt gun. id love to get ahold of the fulton armory with the krieger.
MarinePride  [Member]
2/6/2007 4:18:06 PM
I have a LR308, bought it over a year ago and it is quite accurate. As an accuracy standard I used Sierra 168gr. BTHP Matchkings and some Varget to see what it is capable of. I managed to get 8 of 10 shots touching one another. I attribute the 2 that didn't touch the other 8 to the heavy trigger pull. If there is one weak point to my LR308 it is the trigger. It definitely could use some work.

Extra mags for this rifle are very pricey, something like $45 for a 20 rounder. The build quality is very good for the whole rifle.
Fountain1  [Member]
2/6/2007 5:28:17 PM
It's personal preference both would shoot very well. For some reason some think semi auto's are less accurate than bolts which is not true they both can be exceptional. Just look at manufacturers like "les Baer". A ar platform in .204 that I remember did something like 1/4" or maybe less I Can't recall exactly at 600yrds. Or look at JP another very accurate AR platform.
cujet  [Member]
2/6/2007 11:40:50 PM
If you think the feed ramps are an issue, it is easy to place 1 round in the chamber by hand on the LR. I did this for the first 20 rounds, as I cleaned between each firing.

A guy I target shoot with swears by the single round method when shooting 600 yards with his LR-308. However, in my opinion he is just as accurate in autoloading mode too.

cujet
infsqdldr  [Team Member]
2/7/2007 2:51:14 AM

Originally Posted By cujet:
If you think the feed ramps are an issue, it is easy to place 1 round in the chamber by hand on the LR. I did this for the first 20 rounds, as I cleaned between each firing.

A guy I target shoot with swears by the single round method when shooting 600 yards with his LR-308. However, in my opinion he is just as accurate in autoloading mode too.

cujet


if you do start the tip in the chamber it will help, but is not the way the rifle was designed to be loaded. i dont remember what it causes issues with, but remember not doing it for a reason. i use a bobsled for single load.
cujet  [Member]
2/7/2007 7:27:12 PM
There is no question that the rifle is not designed to be loaded by hand. However, I am able to do so without issue. I only did it for the break in. I have no plans to continue to do so, and maybe I should not suggest it at all.

By the way, I do not see any scrapes or marks caused by feeding ramps on the bullets when using the bolt release to mag load the rounds. However I have not measured if the bullet is still true in the brass.

cujet
infsqdldr  [Team Member]
2/8/2007 12:53:39 AM

Originally Posted By cujet:
There is no question that the rifle is not designed to be loaded by hand. However, I am able to do so without issue. I only did it for the break in. I have no plans to continue to do so, and maybe I should not suggest it at all.

By the way, I do not see any scrapes or marks caused by feeding ramps on the bullets when using the bolt release to mag load the rounds. However I have not measured if the bullet is still true in the brass.

cujet


the only time i noticed the mashing of the tips was with otm bullets that i uniformed the meplates on. i dont think youll see it on fmj bullets. id chamber one and take a pic, but i think i shot all my ammo up before it got cold.
captrichardson  [Team Member]
2/9/2007 2:28:04 PM
I have a "semi-stock" DPMS LR-308 (replaced trigger & stock),

The target below was shot at 100 yards, basically 3 shots in 1 hole.



My 300 yard groups for that day were around 2", with some of them even being around 1.5".

IMHO, that rifle can flat shoot!


To be honest, my Remington 700 now stays in the case, and pretty much all I shoot is that LR-308.


If you are going to go long range (600-1000), I would definitely get a "Bob Sled Mag" and single load each shot by hand. I have shot multiple sub MOA groups from 100-300 yards feeding the rounds out of the mag, but it is possible to "ding" a bullet in the auto-loading process, and that would not be good if you were trying to shoot out to 1,000 yards.

If you are looking for a "dedicated long range shooter", you probably will have a hard time beating a "custom built bolt gun". However it is really nice to be able to drop a mag in and pull the trigger repeatedly without having to cycle the action, and still be able to shot sub MOA.

Good Luck,
"Capt Richardson"
Thomas2Dawg  [Member]
2/9/2007 6:50:46 PM
A lot depends on the individual rifle. I had an 18" that was awesome. I installed a Rock River two stage trigger as the only mod. After breaking it in, It would shoot .5 moa at 300 yards all day with Federal Gold Match 168 seirra BTHP's. I took it out with my shooting partner who is OIC of the country sherrif's dept SRT group. There were four sniper candidates, and two qualified snipers; all shooting Iron Brigade modified Remington 700's...except for my buddy with an Arnold Arms Rem.700. After the initial class, my buddy who was instructing and debriefing the class asked me to come down and shoot three rounds with my "Semi-Auto". I went over and took it outta the case, glaring at him for Putting me on the Spot! I layed on the matt, shot one cold bore, then proceeded to put all three rounds into not a "Ragged Hole", but one round hole at 100 yards! They all accused me of missing the target on purpose! LOL But My LR308 would outshoot them all with their serious Iron Bridgade equipment. Not knocking Iron Brigade either,. they are some fine rifles.
Later I bought a 24" LR308 to try it out beyond 500 yards, and it would barely shoot 1" moa at 100 yards. It got sold and I still have my Shorty 18" gun. Did have some problems initially with cycling. My problem was the factory recoil spring was not allowing the bolt to come far enough back to get a good round pick-up. I found this out by shooting with one round in the mag and it would not hold the bolt open. Rather than drilling out the gas hole, I put a standard rifle AR15 spring in it and it has worked fine since.
Some of the major items affecting long range hits have already been addressed here. I have found a slight point of impact mean variation between mags. So I only have one mag dedicated to target shooting, and have the other one marked, knowing that it will have on the average a .5" right windage difference than my primary at 200 yards.
I took the average out of 25 rounds from each mag. Shooting five, changing mags, shooting five, changing mags etc, to eliminate temp. and wind changes in a full 25 round string, seperated only by a mag change. Was an intense, but fun day at the range, and learned a lot about my rifle.