AR15.Com Archives
 6mm PPC
razorbutt  [Member]
12/13/2005 7:05:11 AM EST
I don't know if this is the correct area for this topic....but I have a 6mm ppc heavy barrel on the way from Model1,after coming across a single shot lower,and having a couple of RR uppers laying around,I thought I'd build something a little different than the usual AR config.

I'm building it as a target/varmint rifle,but wonder if anyone in here has any experience with 6mm ppc built on an AR platform?

Model1 also sells a good looking target type stock,that I may pick up later,if the fitup goes well,and I feel like it's worth the extra 250$

Anywho..that's it.Just wondering if anyone in here has any experience with this barrel in AR,and what are the ups and downs....thanks...Dave
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TonyRumore  [Member]
12/14/2005 2:24:50 PM EST
The first AR I ever owned was an Olympic in 6mmPPC back in 1988 or so. They run fine from 7.62x39 magazines.
I have built several for customers in the past as well.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp
razorbutt  [Member]
12/15/2005 8:15:29 AM EST
Tony...thanks for the reply...but you made my eyes bug out.....you mean I can run the 6mm ppc,through the AR upper,on semi-auto,if I use 762x39 mags??....that would be awsome news...as I stated,I have a single shot AR lower on hand,and thought I would have to use it,only...wow..that would be cool if I can use the colt lower,with match trigger already on it....again,thanks for your answer...Dave
razorbutt  [Member]
12/15/2005 8:44:02 AM EST
I just ordered the AR 762x39 mags...thanks..again..dave

I forgot to ask you..are the 6mm ppc's very accurate?
TonyRumore  [Member]
12/15/2005 5:04:41 PM EST
I never got any accuracy reports back from any customers on the 6PPCs that I built. My Oly shot OK, but nothing great. Pretty much just 1" groups at 100 yards. I think that was more the barrel then the cartridge.

I have a high dollar Schnieder bench rest AR barrel here, that I machined from a blank, chambered in 6 PPC, but had no hits when I tried to sell it. I wanted to shoot it, since it should run under 1/2 MOA, but I don't have any ammo, brass or dies, and don't really want to invest in that to just shoot 10ea test fire shots. A Schnieder blank alone runs nearly $300.

The PPC will run just fine from those 30rd Franken 7.62x39 mags. I fired mine a few times in full auto, and it ran like a scalded dog.





HBruns  [Team Member]
12/15/2005 5:07:51 PM EST
I've thought of doing an upper in 6PPC.


Then I think about chasing brass and get chills thinking about losing my prepped Lapua cases.
cruizer  [Team Member]
12/15/2005 9:38:14 PM EST
I have been working on the same project. Ihave all of my parts except a bolt and carrier and brass. Who are you useing as a source for brass?

Thanks
Cruizer
captrichardson  [Team Member]
12/16/2005 9:33:53 AM EST
Not sure if you guys are familiar with the National Match Forums:
National Match

It is sorta the National Match / Long Range version of AR-15.com. I am sure you can find a number of people over there who are using 6mm ARs for National Match and Long Range.

You have to sign up for access, but it is free just like AR-15.com for the basics.

For anyone who shoots long range it can be a wealth of info. Or in your case for someone who has a "non standard" caliber AR.

Good luck with the build and let us know how the rifle works.

Happy Shooting and Holidays,
"Capt Richardson"
razorbutt  [Member]
12/16/2005 10:06:07 AM EST
I bent over and paid a reloading shop for 100 rds of 220 russian hulls already configured to 6mm ppc.

Also picked up the dies for reloading,as well as two brands and sizes of bullets...60g and 77gr.

I'm hoping the round will be accurate,as the .223 is already inherently accurate out of the AR platform.

Also,if the 762x39 mags will let it run,it will give me the larger round that I was hoping for,from the AR,as I was pondering the 6.8 spc.

The 6mm ppc,will run a 100 gr bullet out around 2800-3000 fps,according to some tables....with the proper bullet,that's not a round to be sneezed at.

..I've got the barrel now,and will put it all together this weekend,and give a report.

..Thanks for advice and comments...Dave
Randall_Rausch  [Member]
12/16/2005 3:03:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By razorbutt:
I'm hoping the round will be accurate,as the .223 is already inherently accurate out of the AR platform.

The 6mm ppc,will run a 100 gr bullet out around 2800-3000 fps,according to some tables....with the proper bullet,that's not a round to be sneezed at.
...Dave



Be careful with some of the loads you will find for the 6PPC, they are meant to be run in bolt guns and certainly not in an AR...

The bolt guns will tolerate a lot more pressure than an AR bolt head will.
Of the 7.62x39 bolts you hear about breakages on, it's usually the guys running a PPC and pushing the limits.
Hold back a couple hundred fps and your pressures get into a much more friendly neighborhood.

Randall Rausch
www.ar15barrels.com
razorbutt  [Member]
12/16/2005 7:27:06 PM EST
Thanks for the warning about the pressures Randal....I try to stay below max loads,as a matter of course...I'm ugly,but I dont' need a bolt planted permanently in my face.

I've talked to people who load so much powder into a case,that it pushes the bullet half out of the case over night...(the one guy shoots 1000 yd targets,with a custom 6.5x284)....what a nightmare.I keep waiting to hear that he's been at least maimed.

I'll most likey wind up using the 6mm ppc,with the single shot AR lower anyway,as far as the magazines go,but it will be cool to have a larger caliber semi AR ready to go....even if I do have to tone the loads down.
RidgeRunner  [Member]
12/18/2005 4:13:18 AM EST
razor, what twist is your barrell? my mini-30 rebarrelled to 6ppc is a 1-12 and it shoots the lightweight bullets great.
RR
razorbutt  [Member]
12/18/2005 6:50:10 AM EST
RR,the barrel is a 1-10" bull barrel .

Do you run the 6ppc rnds semi auto using the 762x39 mags?

Like I posted above,that is a pleasant surprise to me,as I was building this gun as strictly a single shot.

I'll go ahead and build the single shot lower with a good trigger,and match type stock...but will also be able to use it for a heavier semi-auto type AR,with the colt lower that I already have.

is your ppc rig very accurate?

I just realized I don't have another gas tube...daang..got to reorder.....thanks..dave
Dtech1  [Member]
12/18/2005 3:57:32 PM EST
+ 1 on taking it easy with the loads. Back about 10 or 12 years ago I built many of the 6 PPC's on the AR. The bolt is definately the weak link. Feed and function was fine but If I ran even Norma factory loads the bolt wouldn't last.

I did get good accuracy, nothing any better than my .223 or 6 x 45 but .2's and .3's anyway.

I pretty well quit the PPC line. I have been building quite a few of the WSSM uppers for the AR's lately.
Randall_Rausch  [Dealer]
12/18/2005 4:03:41 PM EST
Dtech-

Tell me more about bolts and barrel extensions for the WSSM family.
Are these working in a regular AR-15 upper receiver, or are we talking AR-10's?
Dtech1  [Member]
12/18/2005 4:10:00 PM EST
The bolts, carriers, barrel extensions and upper receivers are all spacific to the WSSM line. The upper is designed to work on an un-modified AR-15 lower and the upper receiver itself starts life as a standard AR-15 upper receiver. The modifications are made to the ejection port and inside of the receiver. You can switch between .223 and .25 WSSM in 20 seconds.
Top_prop  [Team Member]
12/18/2005 4:14:36 PM EST
.
cruizer  [Team Member]
12/18/2005 6:24:25 PM EST
how about a lead for some 6mm PPC brass
razorbutt  [Member]
12/18/2005 6:27:22 PM EST
"lead on 6mm ppc brass"....Harbor Reloading In Clearwater Florida,is where I just got mine,but you'd better get your wallet out....nothing new in gun world though,I guess
tk064  [Member]
12/18/2005 7:02:21 PM EST
Do the WSSM calibers use a barrel of a larger diameter in the chamber area, or are they the same .920 of the bull AR's?

Thanks
Dtech1  [Member]
12/19/2005 2:55:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By tk064:
Do the WSSM calibers use a barrel of a larger diameter in the chamber area, or are they the same .920 of the bull AR's?

Thanks



Most bull barrels that I have ever worked with are more like .920"-,930" at the muzzle. The WSSM barrels have the same profile, they are .930" at the muzzle and just under 1" at the breach.
Top_prop  [Team Member]
12/19/2005 4:13:44 PM EST
ive got a mod 1 6 ppc.... I haven't gotten to play with it much, but while fire forming lightly loaded ammo I'd made from 7.62x39 brass... I had a 10 shot group of 1" tall and about .3" wide.... that seemed to be a good prelude considering the load was far from tweeked...

that said I just got a RRA scout rail for it... it won't fit the Mod 1 upper... it fits my RRA uppers just perfectly.. but the Mod1 seems to be just a tad narrower and the scope mount won't snug down....

buyer beware.
Randall_Rausch  [Dealer]
12/19/2005 5:02:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Top_prop:
that said I just got a RRA scout rail for it... it won't fit the Mod 1 upper... it fits my RRA uppers just perfectly.. but the Mod1 seems to be just a tad narrower and the scope mount won't snug down....

buyer beware.



This is likely because the Model 1 upper might be made to "Weaver" rail specs instead of "Picatinny" rail specs.
The differences are ever so slight, weaver being smaller.
Weaver mounts are usually loose enough to fit a picatinny rail and picatinny mounts will usually tighten down enough to tighten on to a weaver rail.
Sounds like you found the exception to the rule...

It could also just be "tolerance stacking" where you have one part on the tight end of tolerances and another part on the loose end of tolerances.
razorbutt  [Member]
12/20/2005 3:31:10 PM EST
I'm glad there are more AR 6mm ppc folks out there.I was beginning to think I was an anomally....as has been proposed by my exwife and her relatives.

A couple of statements have got me wondering."Fire formed out of 762x39 brass"...I thought we had to use .220 Russian brass?...and..why do people keep saying for safety,to use Lapua brass only?I'm looking at 100 rds,that say"6mmppc GRAF" on the hull...so am I in dangerous territory or what?

Another question popped into my little brain......with the Model1 Bull barrel.....in 6mm ppc,would it be possible to bore the chamber out to another round,that will still use the 6mm size bullet?...say one of the super short mags..or possibly 6mm br?...maybe a dumb set of questions,but hey...I didn't call myself professor razorbutt...thanks for the replies...Dave
Dtech1  [Member]
12/20/2005 5:26:34 PM EST
I don't know what other people are using or have used for the BR but I use the same barrel extension as I use with the WSSM chamberings. The bolt is also the same, just not as large of bolt-face. It has a larger barrel extension and threads so I think you would be screwed.
razorbutt  [Member]
12/21/2005 12:00:31 PM EST
Dtech...I'm used to that situation..."screwed"...I was just wondering.

I'll not be rechambering the barrel,but the thought skated through my brain so I tossed it out,thanks for the reply
razorbutt  [Member]
12/24/2005 6:14:54 AM EST
Of course I have another question to pick the minds the brain trust of the AR community


With the 6mm ppc bull barrel,if I were to strictly use the barrel In a single shot configuration,what other size chambers could the barrel be chambered for?.....I would think the chamber could be bored out at least somewhat....of course I may just completely be wrong...but I'm just wonering..anyone have any idea?...thanks..and Merry Christmas...Dave
Randall_Rausch  [Dealer]
12/24/2005 5:24:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By razorbutt:

With the 6mm ppc bull barrel,if I were to strictly use the barrel In a single shot configuration,what other size chambers could the barrel be chambered for?.....I would think the chamber could be bored out at least somewhat....of course I may just completely be wrong...but I'm just wonering..anyone have any idea?



You don't really want to go any larger in diameter due to back-thrust on the bolt lugs getting excessively high.
6 PPC is running on the ragged edge now.
If you were to lower the pressure, then you can go larger, but you will not really gain velocity with more powder at a lower pressure.
If you went to a longer case of a similar diameter, you could get more powder in there and keep the pressure the same.
This would give you some extra velocity.
razorbutt  [Member]
12/25/2005 1:06:01 PM EST
Thanks Randal,I'll most likely not worry about changing it,as I haven't even shot the 6ppc yet....I was just curious....thank you for your time,and Happy new year
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