crane clones?

Originally Posted By Kisara: Oh, pay no attention to that photo. Here's a real photo of me for you to dream about: tinyurl.com/57v8o Can you spot the real Crane? tinyurl.com/6gtdb tinyurl.com/5642q tinyurl.com/52fnu _________________________________________ tinyurl.com/3jffy

it's on the left........

I've had mine since Viper first started selling them, I've gone through about 2000 rounds including about 400-500 over just this past weekend during a 2 day carbine class. So far I've had zero problems with it, but I guess I should check out that hole and see if it' gone poopy on me.

It the one on the left. What do Iwin?

Originally Posted By Kisara: Oh, pay no attention to that photo. Here's a real photo of me for you to dream about: tinyurl.com/57v8o Can you spot the real Crane? tinyurl.com/6gtdb tinyurl.com/5642q tinyurl.com/52fnu _________________________________________ tinyurl.com/3jffy

1 st pic
left

2nd pic
right

3rd. pic
right with the red rubbers

Originally Posted By nark: If you guys choose to put toy parts on your guns, that's fine with me. All I'm saying is, be honest, because there are people reading this who want honest information and advice. Call it what it is, a toy stock. And definitely let any potential buyer know that you're using Airsoft products.

I agree 100%.

Don't you just love the mentality shown here? It's ok to buy junk so long as everyone else here is buying it too (Gucci gear in reverse), and during the process it becomes an official "clone" LOL

What a trip!

Originally Posted By nark: If you guys choose to put toy parts on your guns, that's fine with me. All I'm saying is, be honest, because there are people reading this who want honest information and advice. Call it what it is, a toy stock. And definitely let any potential buyer know that you're using Airsoft products. "Clone" doesn't give an accurate picture IMO, and neither does the use of the term "milspec" when discussing these toy parts. The Airsoft products are made to look like the real thing, and therefore can be very misleading. But, they aren't meant for hard use like the LMT stocks. The Airsoft stock fits on the milspec sized tube. That's the only milspec reference given or implied by any statement with "milspec" in it. That is a fact and undeniable. The truth shouldn't hurt, after all, it's just the truth. In this case, the truth is that LMT manufactures quality gun parts for the US government, while Airsoft manufactures quality toy parts for people who enjoy quality toys, which are pretty cool by the way. End of story. A few responses ago, you accused me of liking Airsoft, as if it were some bad thing. Now they are "pretty cool". Originally Posted By nark: Let's see if I can summarize your thinking: I like Colt. You like Airsoft. And I'm the blowhard!? Okee dokey, buddy. More power to ya. I weigh products based mainly on reliability and resale value. Interestingly, reliable parts tend to hold their value very well - which, from an investment perspective, means that the "cost" of such parts really is negligable considering you can always get your money back out of them. So, I can't help but wonder why anyone would throw away $70 on a toy stock, that seems to already have bad durability issues, when you can buy the real thing for not that much more, and the real thing will hold its value over time. Oh well, I suspect that I'll never understand this type of thinking. The AIRSOFT clones contunue to sell on the EE for their original price of $70. They seem to retain their value, at least for the money put into them. Nevertheless, since this is a forum where people seek advice, I'll give my 2 cents worth. I use LMT stocks and Colt stocks on my ARs (ostensibly because I'm an elitist). I find them to be 100% reliable, very robust, and I'm very happy with them. I favor the Colt tube and the LMT stock, though, I recommend either manufacturer in this case. And, either way, you won't need to question their durability or reliability.

Other than posting pics of my mod and possibly some use/abuse test down the road, this will be my last response on this matter.

Originally Posted By mongo001: The Airsoft stock fits on the milspec sized tube. That's the only milspec reference given or implied by any statement with "milspec" in it. That is a fact and undeniable.

LOL. So, if I cut a hold in a block of wood, and it happens to fit a buffer tube, does that make it a "milspec" part?

The truth shouldn't hurt, after all, it's just the truth. In this case, the truth is that LMT manufactures quality gun parts for the US government, while Airsoft manufactures quality toy parts for people who enjoy quality toys, which are pretty cool by the way. End of story. A few responses ago, you accused me of liking Airsoft, as if it were some bad thing. Now they are "pretty cool".

Riiight. Uh, there are lots of toys that I'm sure are impressive in a variety of ways. But, that's a long way from qualifying to be a part on one of my guns.

The AIRSOFT clones contunue to sell on the EE for their original price of $70. They seem to retain their value, at least for the money put into them.

Right. As long as people refer to them as crane "clone" stocks, I'm sure people will keep buying them.

Nark/AKM/yardogone, etc have you tried one / used one / seen one (these pics don't count!) of these " clones" in person? Are you just talking about something you don't actually have knowledge or experience about? If you have owned both and want to give your opinion on how they compare and the relative values and what you think from using them, your input is welcome and valuable to the other AR15 members. Otherwise to repond to a thread where you are giving an opinion on an item, and you have never used it , but have bad things to say about it is ridiculous.

Mine (I'm on the right) during a Relay 1 break at the Patrol Carbine course I took last weekend.




I checked and mine has no enlargment of the hole, but if it does die on me, I'll just replace it with a VLTOR.

First fitup is done. I'm going to have to tweak the bushing just a little. I used a pipe thread, so that the tapered thread would aid in locking the bushing in place. I made it extra long, just to make sure there was enough meat there and to take full advantage of the tapered pipe threads. Looks like I'll have to grind off about 1/16", then it will be a perfect, flush fit. It will likely be epoxied in place also, but pipe threads are inherently self locking to begin with. Should complete final assembly tomorrow, with some cure time for the epoxy, it should be ready by the weekend.

Mongo we sell a brass bushing that is wood screw on the out side and machine screw on the inside. This bushing has a slot to drive in the bushing. After install you could drill out the inside threads.

Look here for all of your stock needs.......stocks

Originally Posted By ebgb68: Mongo we sell a brass bushing that is wood screw on the out side and machine screw on the inside. This bushing has a slot to drive in the bushing. After install you could drill out the inside threads. Look here for all of your stock needs.......stocks

I'm not so sure that will work in this case, or at least the way I made this one. This bushing has an internal step in it to catch the lever spring. If you were to drill out the bushing after installation from the bottom, you would eliminate the step that catches the spring. You could try to drill it from the top, but that would take some precision measuring and steady equipment to hold the buttstock. The bushing I made is 1/8" X 27 TPI NPT. I wanted the finest thread possible for maximum contact area and I wanted the tapered threads for the added locking feature.



BTW, I don't see the bushing you talked about on the link. Is it a separate item not listed or did I miss it.

I found myself with a few extra minutes, so I mixed up the epoxy and installed the bushing - permanently. I hand fit the bushing flat with a file.





I put on one of my lowers with the proper sized (since I can't use the m--s--- word anymore), VLTOR tube and it works fine.

Originally Posted By mongo001: Originally Posted By ebgb68: Mongo we sell a brass bushing that is wood screw on the out side and machine screw on the inside. This bushing has a slot to drive in the bushing. After install you could drill out the inside threads. Look here for all of your stock needs.......stocks I'm not so sure that will work in this case, or at least the way I made this one. This bushing has an internal step in it to catch the lever spring. If you were to drill out the bushing after installation from the bottom, you would eliminate the step that catches the spring. You could try to drill it from the top, but that would take some precision measuring and steady equipment to hold the buttstock. The bushing I made is 1/8" X 27 TPI NPT. I wanted the finest thread possible for maximum contact area and I wanted the tapered threads for the added locking feature. BTW, I don't see the bushing you talked about on the link. Is it a separate item not listed or did I miss it.

Here's what the bushing looks like.


The link above is for some more "Gucci" stocks. In the link above stocks they have AK47 wood for airsoft.

Originally Posted By ebgb68: Here's what the bushing looks like.

Do you have an idea of what the ID is of the threads and the OD also. My gut reaction was that the ID looks too large already, but that's just from the pic.

I'll probably stick with my bushing design for now. It takes me a little over 15 min to turn one out on a lathe, so I'm not hurting for another option right now. It's not like I'm going into mass production on these, either.

I think they start at 6/32 thread inside. I know we have 8/32 10/24 1/4 and 5/16. The smaller ones you could drill down and leave a shelf.

Originally Posted By ebgb68: I think they start at 6/32 thread inside. I know we have 8/32 10/24 1/4 and 5/16. The smaller ones you could drill down and leave a shelf.

The right sized one would be adequate for an industrious person. Wonder how you would tap out the stock??? It's risky just driving stuff like that into unsupported plastic, IMO, but you could clamp the hole on either side and go with that, I imagine.

Originally Posted By kavik: Nark/AKM/yardogone, etc have you tried one / used one / seen one (these pics don't count!) of these " clones" in person? Are you just talking about something you don't actually have knowledge or experience about? If you have owned both and want to give your opinion on how they compare and the relative values and what you think from using them, your input is welcome and valuable to the other AR15 members. Otherwise to repond to a thread where you are giving an opinion on an item, and you have never used it , but have bad things to say about it is ridiculous.

Calling an AIRSOFT buttstock a Crane "Clone" IS ridiculous!

Expecting it to perform as well as the original it is copying IS ridiculous!

You call this "valuable" (accurate) information LOL

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil now.

Originally Posted By AKM: Originally Posted By kavik: Nark/AKM/yardogone, etc have you tried one / used one / seen one (these pics don't count!) of these " clones" in person? Are you just talking about something you don't actually have knowledge or experience about? If you have owned both and want to give your opinion on how they compare and the relative values and what you think from using them, your input is welcome and valuable to the other AR15 members. Otherwise to repond to a thread where you are giving an opinion on an item, and you have never used it , but have bad things to say about it is ridiculous. Calling an AIRSOFT buttstock a Crane "Clone" IS ridiculous! Expecting it to perform as well as the original it is copying IS ridiculous! You call this "valuable" (accurate) information LOL See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil now.

Actually it seems that mine is performing BETTER than the original since mine is not having the same problem that the original had.

As someone that has owned several of both here is my opinion. The fit and finish of each is comprable. Further, the fit and finish has varied on individual stocks, both licensed and unlicensed copy. The buttpad on the licensed version is a soft rubber compound, similar to that used in hogue grips. The knock off buttpad is more of a firm polymer or plastic blend. The hardware on the licensed copy is better as it appears to be made of parked steel instead of anodized or painted aluminum. The battery tubes and caps of each are comprable with the main distinction being the color of the o rings. Also, when these non licensed versions 1st became available from GreenO a fellow member did an extensive torture test on his "clone" stock. I think if someone intends to heavily use/abuse their knock off stock then they should replace the hardware with steel parts. When GreenO sold the stocks he did replace the hardware with parts from RRA. And lastly, spray on bed liner, when properly applied, makes a very nice tough finish for these and other stocks.

"Non licensed versions"? LOL

That's the most creative spin yet!

It's also nice to know that the "non-licenced" versions are preforming better then the originals.

You guys are a riot!

So AKM, although you obviously saw my last post (since you quoted it) but chose to ignore the question, do you have actual experience with one of the clones / airsoft ones? If not, stop talking out of your a**.

Originally Posted By AKM: "Non licensed versions"? LOL That's the most creative spin yet!

They seem to be under the impression "Non Licensed Version" sounds better than "Airsoft".

Originally Posted By kavik: So AKM, although you obviously saw my last post (since you quoted it) but chose to ignore the question, do you have actual experience with one of the clones / airsoft ones? If not, stop talking out of your ass.

"Non licensed versions" AKA TOY. Now who's talking out of your you know what!

If you can live with toy components on your rifle good for you.

I would not consider it myself, but if I did I would be man enough to admit it!

Originally Posted By AKM: Originally Posted By kavik: So AKM, although you obviously saw my last post (since you quoted it) but chose to ignore the question, do you have actual experience with one of the clones / airsoft ones? If not, stop talking out of your ass. "Non licensed versions" AKA TOY. Now who's talking out of your you know what! If you can live with toy components on your rifle good for you. I would not consider it myself, but if I did I would be man enough to admit it!

Quit playing the semantics game. Toy/airsoft/unlicensed/clone, who really cares? As long as it does the job the same as the "real thing" what's the big deal?

Apparantly the name stamped on the product magically makes it better. It's like the ricers who think putting stickers on the side of their car make it faster

If that stock works for you that's great. The only problem I have with it is that it's made in CHINA (notice I used red text).

Originally Posted By Matt_B: CHINA (notice I used red text).

CHINA......................................red.......................................red.....................................CHINA...........................................RED CHINA!





As promised:

LMT SOPMOD Purchase

Originally Posted By NewbHunter: Originally Posted By AKM: Originally Posted By kavik: So AKM, although you obviously saw my last post (since you quoted it) but chose to ignore the question, do you have actual experience with one of the clones / airsoft ones? If not, stop talking out of your ass. "Non licensed versions" AKA TOY. Now who's talking out of your you know what! If you can live with toy components on your rifle good for you. I would not consider it myself, but if I did I would be man enough to admit it! Quit playing the semantics game. Toy/airsoft/unlicensed/clone, who really cares? As long as it does the job the same as the "real thing" what's the big deal? Apparantly the name stamped on the product magically makes it better. It's like the ricers who think putting stickers on the side of their car make it faster

LOL. It's the quality of the RAW MATERIALS (Good quality Polymer/plastics) and the Quality Control Programs that make the difference.

The Computer Generation needs to understand that the Firearms Industry works much differently!

These are the things you don't "See", yet they make all the difference!

I got the real deal LMT Crane stock in today. It now lives on my RECCE carbine where my toy stock used to be mounted.



The fit of the LMT vs. the toy is comparable as stated hundreds of times before.

The one minor thing that has been brought up hundreds of time also is the fact that LMT leaves casting flash on the top, forward part of the stock. IMO, it's very minor, but sloppy. This has been identified hundreds of times also. This did not exist on all of the other toy stocks I have seen or handled.



So I filed it off. When I went to file the casting flash off, I expected the LMT material to be much harder to remove than the material on the toy, but it wasn't. It felt just like filing on the toy. The same amount of pressure was needed and similiar marks were left by the file on the LMT as there was on the toy. My unscientific guess is that there are only minor differences in the materials.

Dimensionally they are nearly identical. There are some very minor differences, but nothing to really speak of.

The buttplate on the LMT is a better material and locks fully into place, unlike the toys. I had to modify the lock tabs on the toy stocks so that the buttplate pad's locking tabs would fully lock into place.

As far as hardware goes, the LMT has the better latch, but I didn't find any aluminum hardware on the toy stocks, as I believe was mentioned before here or somewhere else.

The LMT has a superior surface finish, that needs no dressing, other than the casting flash previously identified.


As I have always said and will continue to say, the toy stocks are more than adequate for the casual shooter, up to the semi-active wannabee.







What it boils down to is the LMT is a plastic stock that fits on a milspec tube and is a military stock item with an NSN. The toy stock is a plastic stock that fits on the same milspec tube.

TIFWIW, YMMV, IIRC, and all other standard disclaimers apply.

Dude, what's that sploodge on the right stock?

Originally Posted By TNRonin: Dude, what's that sploodge on the right stock?

When I was coating this one with Norrell's desert tan, I had the other one standing by for comparison. Apparently I splashed some Norrell's on it. It'll buff out.

mongo, how'd you get the buttpad off the toy stock?

Great, the Chinese can make a reasonable copy of another American product. Intended purely for the geek AIRTOY market. I see no reason why I should support either group. Personally, I will continue to buy the real deal. I have handled/owned real authentic CRANES, AIRTOY copies, and I own two LMT's at the moment. I don't put much faith in any review that finds the AIRTOY favorable. The ones I handled were nowhere near the quality of the real thing. I think guys are cutting the copies way too much slack in their reviews. They want to save a few bucks and are trying to justify it to the rest of us.

Originally Posted By 6530: mongo, how'd you get the buttpad off the toy stock?

Squeeze the tabs near the bottom and pull it off.

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: Great, the Chinese can make a reasonable copy of another American product. Intended purely for the geek AIRTOY market. I see no reason why I should support either group. Personally, I will continue to buy the real deal. I have handled/owned real authentic CRANES, AIRTOY copies, and I own two LMT's at the moment. I don't put much faith in any review that finds the AIRTOY favorable. The ones I handled were nowhere near the quality of the real thing. I think guys are cutting the copies way too much slack in their reviews. They want to save a few bucks and are trying to justify it to the rest of us.

All I can due is give my current impression of the product. I'll be suspicious until either;

a.) It dies at a young age, showing it to be a piece of crap.

b.) It lasts for a very long time, functioning as it should, showing it to be a fine substitute for the real thing.

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: Great, the Chinese can make a reasonable copy of another American product. Intended purely for the geek AIRTOY market. I see no reason why I should support either group. Personally, I will continue to buy the real deal. I have handled/owned real authentic CRANES, AIRTOY copies, and I own two LMT's at the moment. I don't put much faith in any review that finds the AIRTOY favorable. The ones I handled were nowhere near the quality of the real thing. I think guys are cutting the copies way too much slack in their reviews. They want to save a few bucks and are trying to justify it to the rest of us.

Short of scientific composition testing and maybe some sledge hammer testing, what else can be done?

They are adequate for someone who both:

1. doesn't shoot alot or use/abuse their rifles in real life situations.
2. wants the look and feel of the real deal and is on a budget.

Never once have I stated that the toy stocks were battle worthy. They are an adequate substitute for many people.

And if you know me, I'm certainly not one to buy something like this to save a buck. It was an item of interest that I had to try for myself, rather than going on the opinions here at ARFCOM, which don't always seem genuine, IMO. I'm not talking about you 'Dinger, but there are others.

Of the little I've found out about you, through hints here and there, I can understand your apprehension. I'm just trying to be honest about these things.

Then I take it you never shop at Walmart right?

Originally Posted By Matt_B: If that stock works for you that's great. The only problem I have with it is that it's made in CHINA (notice I used red text).

mongo001, you were not the target of my post. Your knowledge and trustworthiness was never in doubt or questioned. I consider you to be one the top members of ARFCOM.

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE6: Then I take it you never shop at Walmart right? Originally Posted By Matt_B: If that stock works for you that's great. The only problem I have with it is that it's made in CHINA (notice I used red text).

I won't fall for that one. I buy American whenever and where ever I can. Lord knows it's getting harder to do with every day that goes by. But, when it comes to firearms, I have no problem buying American so I do.

And, to be precise, I did specifically address the stock and nothing else.

Originally Posted By mongo001: They are adequate for someone who both: 1. doesn't shoot alot or use/abuse their rifles in real life situations. 2. wants the look and feel of the real deal and is on a budget. Never once have I stated that the toy stocks were battle worthy. They are an adequate substitute for many people.

I must admit, this sounds like a reasonable conclusion, having no experience with the stock in question (airsoft). Also, I'll go ahead and recognize that, now with your characterization of them as "toy stocks", I guess I'll have to go find something else to complain about. Good analysis.

Having not ponied up the cash for the real deal yet... Mongo, how does the LMT look as far as NOT having the latch pin elongate the stock where it goes through to lock up on the buffer tube?

Originally Posted By kavik: Nark/AKM/yardogone, etc have you tried one / used one / seen one (these pics don't count!) of these " clones" in person? Are you just talking about something you don't actually have knowledge or experience about? If you have owned both and want to give your opinion on how they compare and the relative values and what you think from using them, your input is welcome and valuable to the other AR15 members. Otherwise to repond to a thread where you are giving an opinion on an item, and you have never used it , but have bad things to say about it is ridiculous.

Well I did'nt want to get into all this but here goes, short and simple.

Yes I've had both, first two real deals then the clone thinking it would pass as ok, I was wrong I sold it just recently.
The clone is brittle and would not seem to hold up to a good beating, I worked in the plastics industry for almost ten years and while plastic is plastic, there is a difference in quality, which translates into money,
No I did not shoot and abuse the "clone", :un-licensed", "airsoft" "fake" stock, simply because I did not trust it,
Again I say you get what you pay for

Sure Payless shoes do the same as any major manufacturer, but again, you get what you pay for

Some people are just as happy with a lesser quality, not me,

Not bashing anyone, I've been in the same place, but with age I've become more concerned with quality and have learned that you buy the best you can afford and you will not have to replace, or fix it as often,

but my opinion means nothing if you dont agree with me right

Originally Posted By SnakeEye: Having not ponied up the cash for the real deal yet... Mongo, how does the LMT look as far as NOT having the latch pin elongate the stock where it goes through to lock up on the buffer tube?

Both stocks basically look the same at the latch bolt hole. It comes down to superior materials on the LMT, I guess.

The LMT's latch is rounded and checkered.

Originally Posted By Duffy: The LMT's latch is rounded and checkered.

What I believe he was asking and what I meant to describe was the area around the latch bolt hole. I edited my response, hopefully my intentions were more clear.

i dont care what anyone says! i love my airsoft stock! it will do till the new Magpul M95 spin off comes out then ill buy a real stock!

Thanks Mongo, must be the superior mix of petroleum products that LMT uses

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