My newest AR - What's Missing?

You know, I've done this before...and no matter how much I add, move, or change, my ARs always seem to be "empty" to me. Kind of like getting a base-model car. It's all THERE, but not really. You know what I mean? Anyway, what is it that I am missing here? I'm getting that base-model feeling! LOL

Your setup confuses me.

16" SS bull bbl, carbine length gas system, carbine handguard, and precision furniture.

I have no idea how it shoots, but it just looks a bit unconventional. The short handrail makes it look like Pug.

Buis, and sling are missing.
*edit - are you able to see through the scope with the cheek riser of the prs elevated that high?

Ammo and a range.

Im with this guy, With the furniture and bipod I would expect to see a 20+ inch barrel but its your rifle and if you like it thats what matters. With that said I would put a longer rail on it then put a longer barrel later on.

Geissele trigger?

I think that I agree with you. Perhaps a 24" fluted SS barrel, and a longer handguard. Can I do that with the same gas system, or do I need to extend that as well?

A 24" barrel will most likely be made for a rifle length gas system.

NO WAY! You will need a rifle length system. You would have major extraction issues with a 24" barrel and a carbine gas system. 24" is really long. What distances are you shooting at?

I'm not sure on the distance yet. It will depend on where the rancher puts me, but I'd expect 500-800 yards. Beyond that I'll be grabbing the big dog.

I have only fired a few rounds through this one to make sure it runs. I'll find out tomorrow if it's accurate at all. I bought some decent ammo, and wanted to hit the range today, but the better half had other plans! ARGH!

How many have you built?
Do you ever shoot any of them?

A rifle is a 'tool' designed for an identifiable purpose.
What purpose do you want yours to fulfill?

CM

What is the 'big dog'?

Probably my 308 R700. I have plenty of options, but that one seems to come out more often than anything else.

No TAPCO !

Agreed, you could use some back up iron sights and a sling . As far as the carbine length gas system and 16" barrel it isn't optimal for a precision rifle, but it should be fine for varmint shooting. FYI the gas system is loosely based on barrel length...ie: The M16 A1 was originally made with a 20 inch barrel and a rifle length gas system. When they started producing shorter barrels i.e. 14.5" in the M4 they had to shorten the gas system to ensure reliable cycling with the shorter bbl, this is the carbine length system. I believe the mid length gas system was the answer to the longer 16 inch bbls required on civilian rifles... Apologies if you already knew this stuff

Need some LaRue index clips or Magpul ladder rail covers. Maybe switch out to a JP modular FF rail, put a rifle length FF on there.

It's good info. I appreciate everyone's input! The idea behind this rifle was to have something similar to the DPMS Sweet 16...but with some upgrades. Short(ish) for quick secondary target acquisition, and a bull barrel that doesn't heat up as quickly so the next round or two still have a predictable POI. Kind of like the difference between my R700 .308 with a Sporter barrel vs my R700 with a Varmint barrel. Cold bore is about the same for both rifles. That second shot, however is where the heavy varmint barrel helps me out. I actually prefer the profile of a Sporter barrel. They're just not always appropriate for the intended purpose.

Of course, if it looks dumb, I'll just leave it in the gun safe! And it just doesn't look "right" to me. It looked worse with the adjustable stock, Eotech and magnifier. That darned barrel just makes it look out of balance I think.

She's a beauty. Congrats What barrel? What kind of groups?

M-4 Varmint rifle....(face palm) what the fuck next...

ROTFLMAO!

carry handle

It's a Sweet 16 barrel. I don't know what kind of groups it'll get yet. I just ran a few though it the other day to make sure it ran ok. I had an Eotech mounted and crappy ammo, so 100 yard groups would not have said much about the accuracy of the rifle. I'll run some good ammo tomorrow and see what she does. I do believe I'll order a longer barrel and hand guard on Tuesday. I was thinking about the 24, but that DOES seem awfully long, and would be clumsy. What do some of you varmint guys use for barrels?

With a bipod, I personally would want a longer rail to put it farther out. Maybe a 12" or more rail.

16" barrels will have a hard time at 800 yards.

I don't like barrels over 20", or bull barrels for that matter, but I walk around with my rifles a fair amount. I really like the mid weight profiles

Light, laser and front and rear buis.

Is mid weight like an H-BAR?

+3
1 for the comment on an M-4 Varmint setup
1 for being from North Dakota (fuck yeah)
1 for being a Fighting Sioux Fan

Your rifle could look nice with a long barrel….. It reminds me of a post a few weeks back, I hope COLDSTEEL77 wont mind http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=570983 He used a 28" barrel! Look how bad ass it looks though with the same hardware you are using, so much more balanced….

Your setup confuses me. Many of the components/add-ons are kind of incongruous. If you want a precision/varmint rifle setup, it should not have the barrel/gas system that it has. If you want a SHTF/home defense rifle, well, you'd pretty much have to start from scratch. As it is it looks very heavy and cumbersome.

If I were you, I would figure out exactly what you wanted. Then do some research and find a good template rifle to tailor your build to. The pic threads around here are actually great sources of info. Then I would sell your rifle and use the funds to get something that is ideal for what you want. And whatever you do, don't cheap out on any of the components. You will regret it later.

While I agree with most all of your post I dont think the OP should just sell everything and start over. All he needs is a new barrel, gas tube, and hand guard. Things that can be changed in a matter of minutes. And after that if he wants he can change the grip and stock a 2-5 minute job.

Honestly, it's a weird combination visually, and convention says the barrel should be longer and get a longer gas system and rail, but that won't effect accuracy and not a single change listed so far will effect the rounds down range. MAYBE a longer gas system and barrel will speed up follow up shots by adding weight to keep the barrel down and reducing the snap from carbine to rifle buffer/gas, but those are both minimal differences at this point. It's not like he'd be going from a light weight SBR to a bull 24".

My preference would be to put a longer rail on it, just to balance better visually and allow room to put the bipod further forward. I like them out farther than the carbine rails allow. On the other hand, if that position works for you and the barrel turns out to be accurate enough to make you happy I wouldn't touch a darn thing.

Given the intended role buis are pointless. A longer barrel is not going to change accuracy, just give a bit more velocity. Maybe that helps cut wind drift fractionally but given the small change in velocity and expected distances I wouldn't change barrels for that.

This is some funny chit.....

I would get some ladder covers and a different gas block and then shoot the fuck out of it.

FUGLY!!!!

This rifle is woefully inadequate. I don't see a readymag, enough rails, enough optics, enough vertical grips, enough of those offset red dot sight mounts, enough Magpul, enough stocks, or enough rails. I mention rails twice because rails can always be added to rails. I don't see MOLLE straps, slings, BUIS, fixed sights, rail covers, FDE stuff, gold and chrome plating, or a bayonet. Also, put a flare launcher and one of those satellite beacons that the coast guard makes those crab fishing ships on Deadliest Catch use in case they sink at sea. I forget what they are called but I think they are orange. (Edit: Google tells me they are called EPIRBs. Imagine a fat, orange walkie-talkie.)

Otherwise, it looks nice.

Looks like a cross between a varmint and a carbine with more emphasis on the varmint. I like it in an odd kind of way. As for those that say you need some buis, ignore them.
Why put on buis when the scope can't be quickly removed? Those that can't see that are stupid. If it shoots good why think about change the barrel? I would look at upgrading
the trigger before anything else. I would go with a Geissele Hi Speed trigger if you can swing it.

That does look sweet!

Thanks!

So...more rails then? ;)~

Thanks!

I think I would just go with a low pro gas block and add a rifle length handguard . if you like the prs stock and that huge pistol grip then leave it on . I would not be making a bunch of changes or ditch the whole thing and start over .
I prefer something a bit lighter but then again I would be lucky to shoot 500 feet much less 500 yds on my property

It's intended purpose is definitely varmint hunting! I have an A2 carbine for home defense...it's fine for that. The scope comes off very easily, but I have no need for flip up sites on this rifle. If the scope fails, I'll reach into the bag and pull out my Remington 700. I am looking at triggers. They're just a couple hundred bucks, so maybe.

I'm going to see how she shoots tomorrow. I am definitely going to get a rifle length hand guard. I had not considered how acute that angle is with the bipod. Beyond that, we'll see...I am not opposed to a good 20"+ barrel. Weight doesn't matter on this one. It's not a carry rifle. It's a "get setup, and enjoy a day of bloodshed on the ranch" rifle. It really comes down to the look for me. I'll change a barrel just for the right look and feel. Oddly enough, I would NOT buy a longer barrel to gain the extra 120 fps of MV. It's just not that important to me. A 16" barrel should be capable of sub-MOA performance. I'm not going to come close to transonic at my ranges.

Anyway, I do appreciate everyone's opinions. Even the not-so-helpful ones. They are FUNNY!

Thanks!
Cisco

Seriously though, it looks nice as is if you ask me.

That thing is having a identity crisis.

You could always send me some extra cash.... I could use it

Some years ago I built a 20" rifle similar to this with the intent of using it as a coyote rifle. After lugging the beast for 10 miles or so over a two day hunt I vowed to never again take a bull barrel hunting. (and I seldom say never)

To the OP, who cares if other internet guys think your rifle looks funny. If that is what you want and it performs great leave it alone and use it as is. I bet it saves a nice chunk of weight over a 20in heavy barrel and a 12-14in rail. If you are carrying it any distances a sling would be nice. Other than that I would leave it alone.

Im sure it does save a lot of weight. But then he should loose the stock and grip for something smaller to look more balanced and save even more weight….

Well, I DID ask LOL. It looks "off" to me, and I agree with some of what has been said. If I could find a lighter barrel in 20" that doesn't heat up too quickly, I'd actually try that. The only barrels I've seen that look like they might work are the Yankee Hill Chrome Lined Fluted barrels. These actually look like they have enough surface area to dissipate heat for 3-5 shots. Has anyone used these, and have an opinion?

http://www.jsesurplus.com/yhmar15barrelcarbinelength-4.aspx

Why are you so concerned with heat? Fluting is mostly for looks. Unless you are getting it super hot from mag dump after mag dump, which I don't think you will be doing varmint hunting you will be fine. Unless you just like the fluted look which is cool too. Check out JPs thermal dissipators http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.5_hs.php I have one (mostly for looks though) It does get hot so it is working.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Heat matters a lot, and fluting is most certainly not just for looks. Fluting increases surface area without increasing overall diameter. The more surface area, the faster heat moves from the barrel to the air. It also reduces weight by a little bit, and in some cases can add some rigidity (I think that last one is BS, but I'm no engineer). At 100 yards, you are right. Heat doesn't matter much. At 500 yards, the difference is a bit more pronounced. With small game, it's the difference between a clean kill and a miss. The POI for your cold bore shot can be significantly different from your follow-up shot. Much less so if the barrel can dissipate the heat. The type of hunting this rifle will do could present me with three or four targets within a minute or two. Sometimes, this ranch looks like a Whack-A-Mole game!

exactly just go shoot. Ya have tactical type folk's here,Hunters, Paper punchers, 3 Gun guy's, ect.

If it works for you, thats what counts.

good luck with your rifle.

what I would do is..and I like except the stock is just make it a DMR type rifle in a carbine legnth.

Ok fluting does increase surface area, but only by a small amount… If anything it could cool faster because the heat has less material to travel through…. But if the barrel itself is a larger diameter because its fluted it wont help you out any. Fluting is done mostly to reduce weight. Wont increase stiffness either, for a given diameter. If it make such a huge difference wouldn't all sniper rifles be fluted? You see it on a Barrett .50 because those things are heavy! The hottest part of the barrel will be at the breach. And most barrels are fluted after the gas block, because it looks cool. Your better off with the heat sync I showed you if want to cool your barrel faster, lots and lots of surface area there.

EDIT: I believe this man knows what he is talking about when it come to building a rifle. Watch from about 7:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEyPVtfqx20 And there are plenty of articles to support what I wrote. But you can find anything written on the internet….

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