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 Bushmaster ARs at Dunhams Sports. Not impressed...
Raven4031  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 1:01:44 AM
Sooo.... I went into the local Dunhams Sports today and next to several WASRs were a pair of ARs. They were both Bushmasters (both $900-$1000) and one looked like an A2 upper 16" Carbine, while the other one was labeled as "optics ready" with a flat-top upper. I asked to look at the "optics ready" model, just out of curiosity, and wasn't impressed by what I found. The BCG was okay, but seemed kinda junky. The finish on the BCG was black, unlike the typical gray parked look, and felt really grainy, not at all nice and smooth.
Additionally, on an "optics ready"(read - no irons) Ar, I would have expected a low-pro gas-block or maybe a railed gas-block or something, but I was a little bit surprised to find a cut-down standard FSB in front of the standard carbine hand-guards. This is not an "optics ready" AR, this is an optics-only AR, without a considerable amount of work (replacing the cut-down FSB or putting a FF hand-guard and accompanying front-sight over it)... ... for $900-$1000... ?

It seemed funny to me that BM would sell a new rifle with a cut-down FSB. My question is, is this common, and was the sketchy BCG finish a fluke or to be expected?
I mean, I've seen it on many rifles that were sold as used, cut down by the owner or on a few models of ARs that were very obviously marketed for the hunting market, but on a 16" carbine with a standard carbine hand-guard and an M4 profile barrel? Seems like you're trying to market this to an extremely narrow customer base or maybe just the people who don't know what they're buying. Then again, if you're buying a plain-jane Bushy carbine for $1000, you probably haven't been doing your homework and shopping around. Not bashing on Bushies by any means, just sayin'.
I'm not shopping for a new rifle, so no need in trying to tell me what Colts are going for or whatever, it was just some observations.
Any thoughts?
undercoverwookie  [Member]
4/8/2012 1:13:40 AM
I love my BM, very smooth, fluid action, not gritty like the one you describe. That being said, I wouldn't consider buying either of those rifles for more than 600-700 bucks. The ORC just seems like a lack of thought, though I guess since on the website it says the BMAS flip up sight can be mounted on the gas block. Probably just trying to sell other items, as the ORC is not the only rifle they sell with the milled gas block. I wouldn't buy a rifle that had a gritty action either. I have had that experience with cheap charging handles, and would not want to imagine what it would feel like on an entire bolt. Might just need some breaking in though.
bloodsport2885  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 1:30:55 AM
I think you're underestimating just how big the market of "I don't know what I just bought but it looks cool" is. WE are the niche market of tactical accessories and modeling rifles after military models. Chances are, the people who buy that particular model won't even know how to add sights to it or care. They'll slap a scope on it (probably in picatiny rings) and plink away or hunt. And why put a low pro gas block on a carbine when the target buyer (mind you, one of many) probably doesn't even know how to get the cut down sight base off? And why even bother removing it if they never plan to put rails on it. And why put rails on it if you're just blasting with a 4X scope at 100 yards and have no plans to use it for any other purpose? If the customer isn't going to care about the gas block, its cheaper to take one of the thousands of forged sight bases they buy in bulk and just have some guy grind off the tower. Setting up jigs and training people to dimple barrels for a low pro costs money that's unneccesary in light of the stuff above.

The AR15 can and does wear a lot of hats and in this instance you're looking at the rifle from OUR perspective, not the market at large.

The grittiness is probably just because its a new rifle. Until I lubed and dry fired all my build they all felt like utter crap. The parkerizing has to wear off the guide rails and wear into the upper for it to feel smooth. And the "preservative" oil factories put on complete guns is usually pretty poor at lubrication.

I haven't personally handled one except my old Bushmaster, but I think there are other explanations than its a sub-par rifle. At least until I shot it and found it didn't function well.

Not something you or I would buy but someone out there wants them.
H53EXPERT  [Member]
4/8/2012 3:13:48 AM
The OR model is advertised on their website the way you described it, so I don't see what the problem is. A lot of people want to simply mount a scope or red dot on their rifle without all the mall ninja back up this or back up that. MSRP on the rifle is right around $1100, so they should go for about $800 on the street. That aspect sounds like a Dunham's problem, not a Bushmaster one.

Complaining about the configuration of this rifle is like complaining about guys that buy rifles that have machine gun metal barrels on their ARs, and they shoot them a few times and put them in the closet for the next five years.

Different strokes for different folks. If it isn't for you, get the one you want and know best.
Raven4031  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 4:27:28 AM
Please note, it wasn't just the feel of charging that was gritty, I took the BCG out and inspected it, while running my fingers over the side of the carrier, I noticed it was not smooth. The finish on the carrier felt rough to the touch, as opposed to nice and slick/smooth that every other carrier I have ever handled was. Whether this was due to the machining or a problem in the parking process, I could not tell, but it almost felt like there was tons of tiny bits of slag scattered all over the surface of the carrier.
Thank you to those who answered my question about the FSB being stock on some of their models.

Again, not bashing on Bushmaster, but the gun just left me with a feeling, and a couple questions.

MrSilverLining  [Member]
4/8/2012 7:01:44 AM
My first experience with Shrubmaster was at an MDTS carbine class. Both broke halfway through day one, but were minor enough problems that a half hour of a little Armorer love and they were back up and running. Both were BNIB, issued to LEO's attending. Not exactly a god first impression.
Pacodutaco  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 7:48:34 AM
10 years ago, BM put out some nice stuff...today...not so much.
46and2  [Member]
4/8/2012 8:18:06 AM
Originally Posted By Raven4031:
Sooo.... I went into the local Dunhams Sports today and next to several WASRs were a pair of ARs. They were both Bushmasters (both $900-$1000) and one looked like an A2 upper 16" Carbine, while the other one was labeled as "optics ready" with a flat-top upper. I asked to look at the "optics ready" model, just out of curiosity, and wasn't impressed by what I found. The BCG was okay, but seemed kinda junky. The finish on the BCG was black, unlike the typical gray parked look, and felt really grainy, not at all nice and smooth.
Additionally, on an "optics ready"(read - no irons) Ar, I would have expected a low-pro gas-block or maybe a railed gas-block or something, but I was a little bit surprised to find a cut-down standard FSB in front of the standard carbine hand-guards. This is not an "optics ready" AR, this is an optics-only AR, without a considerable amount of work (replacing the cut-down FSB or putting a FF hand-guard and accompanying front-sight over it)... ... for $900-$1000... ?

It seemed funny to me that BM would sell a new rifle with a cut-down FSB. My question is, is this common, and was the sketchy BCG finish a fluke or to be expected?
I mean, I've seen it on many rifles that were sold as used, cut down by the owner or on a few models of ARs that were very obviously marketed for the hunting market, but on a 16" carbine with a standard carbine hand-guard and an M4 profile barrel? Seems like you're trying to market this to an extremely narrow customer base or maybe just the people who don't know what they're buying. Then again, if you're buying a plain-jane Bushy carbine for $1000, you probably haven't been doing your homework and shopping around. Not bashing on Bushies by any means, just sayin'.
I'm not shopping for a new rifle, so no need in trying to tell me what Colts are going for or whatever, it was just some observations.
Any thoughts?


I have a carbon 15 ORC bushy but mine cost $600. I like it. It was my first AR and I love to shoot it. I threw a Troy drop in and added magpul MBUS to it. I really don't have a problem with it. I like my BCM better but happy with both.
FlyingAshtray  [Member]
4/8/2012 9:37:49 AM
Perhaps this isn't relevant (Im new, so apologies in advance) but about 2 years ago I was in the market for a bolt action or semi-auto rifle in .223 or 5.56. Long story, but I was looking at the whole spectrum of products in that caliber, semi autos, bolt action, the works. My only criteria was that it had to have iron sights. When looking at the websites for Remington, Ruger, Savage, etc its much harder to find rifles with iron sights on them. I mean, they have a few, but the selection is much more limited. ARs seem to be the a category where people seem to expect that either sights are already on the rifle, or they'll be easy to attach.

The expectation seems to be that if you are buying a rifle that's not a .22, you will put optics on it. Maybe that's what you're seeing with those Bushmasters?
falm16  [Member]
4/8/2012 9:50:10 AM
not all bcg's are smooth. some are heavy parked and feel gritty when new, but take just a short time to smooth out and feel smooth in the action.
gmtmaster  [Member]
4/8/2012 11:05:45 AM
This Bushmaster seems fine.



jough43  [Member]
4/8/2012 11:55:19 AM
Even the Bushmast .308 ORC has a cut down front sight block......making it low profile?
clickclickBOOM  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 12:33:23 PM
Luke: [on first seeing the Millenium Falcon] What a piece of junk!
Han Solo: She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself.

My Bushmaster is like that.
Justin3  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 12:37:28 PM
The dunhams out here all have that bushmaster ORC for $799, and just about every other week on sale for $729.
idaho69442  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 12:47:20 PM
Keep in mind, Bushmaster is Remington owned now.
Dick Dyke and his original staff are now "Windham Weaponry" after Remington breeched contract by firing employees they said they would retain.
From what I've heard, Windham Weaponry ARs are better than the old Bushys.
southerncross  [Member]
4/8/2012 1:01:54 PM
wow, you guys are getting raped if you're paying those kinds of prices for bushmasters. the gun store i used to manage regularly sells bushmaster along with a ton of other comparable commercial ARs for 8-850 for 90% of the models. thats when they're not running a sale.
PredatorWhacker  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 3:55:56 PM
The cut off FSB is normal. So is the BCG. Probably smooth up when properly cleaned and lubed.
AR15fan  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 4:24:05 PM
Originally Posted By Raven4031:
It seemed funny to me that BM would sell a new rifle with a cut-down FSB. My question is, is this common....


Colt CAR-A3 HBAR Elete used a "cut down" FSB. Hell i would prefer a taper pinned forged "cut down" FSB to some of the aftermarket gas blocks out there.
jb241970  [Member]
4/8/2012 4:29:58 PM
It seems the older Bushy's are the good bushy's. Mine is about 7 years old & runs perfectly.
SlightlySkewed  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 4:55:40 PM
This is not a good sign for Bushmaster...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60/Bushmaster/
H53EXPERT  [Member]
4/8/2012 5:06:26 PM
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
This is not a good sign for Bushmaster...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60/Bushmaster/


What isn't a good sign? It is a page that sells Bushmasters.
SlightlySkewed  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 5:09:14 PM
Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
This is not a good sign for Bushmaster...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60/Bushmaster/


What isn't a good sign? It is a page that sells Bushmasters.


We're in a panic buying spree and most retailers are back ordered on Colt, Windham Weaponry, Spikes Tactical, Daniel Defense etc. rifles...
H53EXPERT  [Member]
4/8/2012 5:25:29 PM
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
This is not a good sign for Bushmaster...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60/Bushmaster/


What isn't a good sign? It is a page that sells Bushmasters.


We're in a panic buying spree and most retailers are back ordered on Colt, Windham Weaponry, Spikes Tactical, Daniel Defense etc. rifles...


I guess you could look at it that way. Or Bud's just got a new shipment of BM rifles. The local Dick's Sporting store has Bushmaster, Stag, and S&W ARs still in stock, and the local Walmart has Bushmaster, Windham, SIG, and Colt in stock.
Cavitation  [Member]
4/8/2012 6:12:32 PM
What kind of fucktard website was that!!!
20iner  [Member]
4/8/2012 6:34:57 PM
The Bushmaster I bought in '02 went 15k before the bolt finally cracked at the cam pin hole. Cant comment on their quality these days.
TexasGunGuy84  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 6:38:03 PM
I love my ORC (pre-Remington/freedom group buy out) 1000's of rounds through it never had any issues (knock on wood)

However now it doesn't look much like the ORC anymore

SlightlySkewed  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 8:30:13 PM
Originally Posted By TexasGunGuy84:
I love my ORC (pre-Remington/freedom group buy out) 1000's of rounds through it never had any issues (knock on wood)

However now it doesn't look much like the ORC anymore

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m636/Texasgunguy88/DSC_0302.jpg


Nice!
PredatorWhacker  [Team Member]
4/8/2012 8:50:56 PM
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
This is not a good sign for Bushmaster...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60/Bushmaster/


What isn't a good sign? It is a page that sells Bushmasters.


We're in a panic buying spree and most retailers are back ordered on Colt, Windham Weaponry, Spikes Tactical, Daniel Defense etc. rifles...


We are in panic mode? Didn't know that.

Colts can be found no problem. They are almost always hard to get at Buds for some reason. Windham Weaponry is a small low volume upstart company. Nobody is standing in line to get those. Spikes is small and always behind. DD can be hard to find sometimes so pretty normal. It's pretty normal for Bushy to have a high volume of rifles available. Like them or not they pump out a lot of rifles.

When the panic button is pressed again everything will go sky high and be hard to get along with ammo. My friend just ordered two in stock PSAs about 30 mins ago for excellent price so hardly panic situation at the moment.
JPP  [Member]
4/8/2012 9:18:00 PM
Originally Posted By idaho69442:
Keep in mind, Bushmaster is Remington owned now.
Dick Dyke and his original staff are now "Windham Weaponry" after Remington breeched contract by firing employees they said they would retain.
From what I've heard, Windham Weaponry ARs are better than the old Bushys.


it was Freedom Arms that torques off Dick Dyke, not Remington. Remington is owned by Freedom Arms.
I have seen the Bushmasters of today, they are just as they used to be....nothing special, not bad, just the same as they were,
I do think Windham Weaponry rifles made in the old Bushmaster plant might look a bit better than the old Bushmasters did.

But I bet both rifles will work just fine, as needed.