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 DPMS Oracle, whats the word?
FoxValleyTacDriver  [Member]
2/3/2012 11:25:48 AM EST
Curious about the quality. I know I can build a better rifle for cheaper but I have a friend that wants to buy a complete rifle, no talking him out of it, and his price range is staying at 600 lol. So I know that there are way better options and not concerned about psa del-ton ect. I need to know the quality of the oracle and thats about it. entry level rifle for 550?
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foursixty  [Member]
2/3/2012 11:38:09 AM EST
I have two examples and both are great performers. Both shoot any ammo. Both are accurate. Neither have had any problems.

Word of advice and my only complaint.......

The railed gas block they come with is aluminum and is prone to heating up and turning loose. Mine did do that. After that happened I put loc-tite on both and never had an issue since. I am really well pleased with both. I say they are good to go. Loc-tite those two gas block set screws when you get it and you won't have any problems.
SoMiss1  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 12:09:17 PM EST
I have an Oracle Flat top.. Run about 500 rounds through in in last 2 months with no issues. Wolf, Tula, Remington. UMC, etc. no issues.
It is my first and did not know very much when i bought it. After I know tons more and spent more time in this forum, I dont regret anything about it.

I am not one that has to have the "BEST Brand" of anything just for its brand or label.. I cant "Proudly" post pics of my gun list off all about because no one on here " brags" about their DPMS Oracle.... BUT, Again, I like mine. It shoots great. Groups great.

I bought just the upper and put on a RRA lower. I replaced the Flash Hider with a Muzz Brake due to NY AWB restrictions and i swapped out the black foregrip for a OD Green one.. nothing else modified on it..

I definitely believe there are "Better" products and higher quality... but i am very pleased by mine and not easily swayed by all the negative comments on here.
DPMS and Bushmaster both have negative reputations on here. (my suspicion is that it is because they are "CORPORATE")
I subsequently bought a DPMS Predator 20" bull upper and it performs just as well.

RogueSpear2023  [Member]
2/3/2012 12:27:40 PM EST
I had one, but ended up selling it not for any particular reason though, a friend was willing to pay me what I paid for it, so I figured why not, at the time I already had a DPMS M4 Carbine length, and really didn't need another one with less features. Overall it was good firearm to own, I would probably not get another one, but not bad either. I know you are not looking for suggestions but the S&W M&P sport is in that same price range, and IMO is probably a better rifle, at least it has the shell deflector, forward assist, and dust cover.
Krylancelo  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 12:28:29 PM EST
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.
bjkb1f  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 12:30:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Yep. If you have to, save another month and buy something closer to mil spec with all the proper testing, materials, etc.
foursixty  [Member]
2/3/2012 12:31:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
I had one, but ended up selling it not for any particular reason though, a friend was willing to pay me what I paid for it, so I figured why not, at the time I already had a DPMS M4 Carbine length, and really didn't need another one with less features. Overall it was good firearm to own, I would probably not get another one, but not bad either. I know you are not looking for suggestions but the S&W M&P sport is in that same price range, and IMO is probably a better rifle, at least it has the shell deflector, forward assist, and dust cover.



Sorry, this part confused me a little. I just want to make sure everything is clear. The Oracle has all of those things. It has the shell deflector, forward assist, and dust cover. I think maybe you were talking about the M&P Sport not having those features, I just wanted to be clear that the Oracle does. DPMS's Sportical is the model that doesn't.

In my opinion I like my DPMS over the M&P Sport. But I do like the melonite treatment that the M&P uses though.
RogueSpear2023  [Member]
2/3/2012 12:32:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
I had one, but ended up selling it not for any particular reason though, a friend was willing to pay me what I paid for it, so I figured why not, at the time I already had a DPMS M4 Carbine length, and really didn't need another one with less features. Overall it was good firearm to own, I would probably not get another one, but not bad either. I know you are not looking for suggestions but the S&W M&P sport is in that same price range, and IMO is probably a better rifle, at least it has the shell deflector, forward assist, and dust cover.



Sorry, this part confused me a little. I just want to make sure everything is clear. The Oracle has all of those things. It has the shell deflector, forward assist, and dust cover. I think maybe you were talking about the M&P Sport not having those features, I just wanted to be clear that the Oracle does. DPMS's Sportical is the model that doesn't.

In my opinion I like my DPMS over the M&P Sport. But I do like the melonite treatment that the M&P uses though.


Yep your right miss spoke there.
foursixty  [Member]
2/3/2012 12:34:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.
LA_357SIG  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 12:36:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Originally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver:
Curious about the quality. I know I can build a better rifle for cheaper but I have a friend that wants to buy a complete rifle, no talking him out of it, and his price range is staying at 600 lol. So I know that there are way better options and not concerned about psa del-ton ect. I need to know the quality of the oracle and thats about it. entry level rifle for 550?


Do you have any thoughts experience with the DPMS Oracle's quality?
bjkb1f  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 12:42:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?
Captain_Howdy  [Member]
2/3/2012 12:42:37 PM EST
I've never fired the Oracle but I have fired the sportical. I have handled both and I own a DPMS M4 type that you cant get commercially. My feelings on the oracle and the sportical are that they are very cheap built parts. Either may or may not serve your needs I don't know but I wouldn't spend my money on either. I will say this for the DPMS m4gery that I own...which does have a CL 5.56 1/7 twist barrel with proper m4 ramps and flat top rail...It has run 100% for the 8 years I have owned it.

At this time currently I highly doubt I would spend money on any commercial DPMS built rifle. But I might consider using one of their lowers for a build IF I could get a smoking deal. Their parts kits suck in my opinion however...mainly gritty-shitty triggers...but usable in a pinch.

I think a person would be better served with a reasonably priced mil-spec option than the current line of DPMS guns. Especially with the nice prices out there and the customer service some of the other vendors are offering.

This is just my opinion though... YMMV.

good luck.
MikeE23666  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 12:47:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


And DD is not anywhere priced like any of those above. I have never shot a DD and I am sure they are superb rifles. But some of us would be breaking the bank on a $1500+ carbine.

foursixty  [Member]
2/3/2012 12:57:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.
FlinginLead  [Member]
2/3/2012 1:31:17 PM EST
My brother has one.
I like how light it is.
No issues that i know of. I think he has a little over 800 rounds through it now.
LeonC  [Member]
2/3/2012 1:35:59 PM EST
I would say, why?
There are better options in the same price range.
MikeE23666  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 2:12:51 PM EST
I've been thinking of eventually getting a 5.56 Oracle and feeding Wolf and Tula and see if its as bad as everyone says.
MadnessReigns  [Member]
2/3/2012 2:24:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By MikeE23666:
I've been thinking of eventually getting a 5.56 Oracle and feeding Wolf and Tula and see if its as bad as everyone says.

the rifle or the ammo?
dennyd  [Member]
2/3/2012 2:27:20 PM EST
I reckon it's because you can walk into a gun store and buy a dpms off the rack, right now today instead of ordering one thats already back ordered, it's nice to be able to see what your buying, i would do the same, at least in the stores around here none of em have any of these other ones on the rack, dpms, bush master and Smith and wesson.
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


MikeE23666  [Team Member]
2/3/2012 2:32:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By MadnessReigns:

Originally Posted By MikeE23666:
I've been thinking of eventually getting a 5.56 Oracle and feeding Wolf and Tula and see if its as bad as everyone says.

the rifle or the ammo?


Both, more so the rifle though. I suspect that much of their bad notoriety is false.
FlinginLead  [Member]
2/3/2012 6:50:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By MikeE23666:
Originally Posted By MadnessReigns:

Originally Posted By MikeE23666:
I've been thinking of eventually getting a 5.56 Oracle and feeding Wolf and Tula and see if its as bad as everyone says.

the rifle or the ammo?


Both, more so the rifle though. I suspect that much of their bad notoriety is false.


80 rounds of tula no issues.
Kwassing  [Member]
2/3/2012 7:22:13 PM EST
I purchased the Flat Top Oracle as well. Have several hundred rounds threw it with no issues. Cheap Steel or brass. Doesnt matter. I havent had any issues yet. I purchased it before i was a member here and before i really knew anything about em. Added a few things, iron sights, AFG, quad rail.. Does not have the forward assist or dust cover..

MAZK  [Member]
2/3/2012 7:51:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kwassing:
I purchased the Flat Top Oracle as well. Have several hundred rounds threw it with no issues. Cheap Steel or brass. Doesnt matter. I havent had any issues yet. I purchased it before i was a member here and before i really knew anything about em. Added a few things, iron sights, AFG, quad rail.. Does not have the forward assist or dust cover..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/hotsniper/photo4.jpg



If it doesnt have the dust cover or forward assist it a Sportacle. I had the same rifle for about a year, never had a problem with if. Just sold it when I got my ACR.
14romeo  [Member]
2/4/2012 5:42:08 AM EST
I have put 2,400 rounds through mine in the last 6 months with only a single FTF. Quality wise mine is fine no blems on the finish no loose parts or the like. I can get 3in groups at 200yrds with bulk ammo, while it is not the "best most awesome tier one operator level" rifle around, if all your buddy is gonna use it for is the occasional weekend warrior plink-athon I see no reason why he shouldnt go for it.
bjkb1f  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 7:17:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.
AlphaOperator  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 7:47:06 AM EST
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your gas-block front sight mounted backwards?

If so, why?

Originally Posted By Kwassing:
I purchased the Flat Top Oracle as well. Have several hundred rounds threw it with no issues. Cheap Steel or brass. Doesnt matter. I havent had any issues yet. I purchased it before i was a member here and before i really knew anything about em. Added a few things, iron sights, AFG, quad rail.. Does not have the forward assist or dust cover..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/hotsniper/photo4.jpg


foursixty  [Member]
2/4/2012 8:41:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?
Rickymachinegun  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 8:58:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


What makes you so sure that DPMS is lower quality? Did you know their forgings come from the same place as Spikes
Kwassing  [Member]
2/4/2012 9:15:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your gas-block front sight mounted backwards?

If so, why?

Originally Posted By Kwassing:
I purchased the Flat Top Oracle as well. Have several hundred rounds threw it with no issues. Cheap Steel or brass. Doesnt matter. I havent had any issues yet. I purchased it before i was a member here and before i really knew anything about em. Added a few things, iron sights, AFG, quad rail.. Does not have the forward assist or dust cover..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/hotsniper/photo4.jpg









its purely 100% cosmetic. I like the way it looks that way as apposed to turned around. lol
wolverine05  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 12:08:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?


Nobody here knows anything about specs? Quite a wide sweeping comment don't you think? You've just insulted everyone else on this forum. Just take it easy, and stop trying to sound as though you know everything. If you would take a DPMS over a PSA or Spikes then that is fine. But understand that it is likely that the overwhelming majority of others would not. I know that you like to go against the grain, but you need to realize that you are indeed going against the grain here.
foursixty  [Member]
2/4/2012 12:39:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?


Nobody here knows anything about specs? Quite a wide sweeping comment don't you think? You've just insulted everyone else on this forum. Just take it easy, and stop trying to sound as though you know everything. If you would take a DPMS over a PSA or Spikes then that is fine. But understand that it is likely that the overwhelming majority of others would not. I know that you like to go against the grain, but you need to realize that you are indeed going against the grain here.


Well, hello there. How are you?
You know very well what I meant when I said that. And it is completely accurate. If you know something about the TDP then I suppose Colt has really sucky security practices. That's what I meant and you know it. Nobody here really knows what the specs are is my point. If people want to believe their rifle has better specs I have no problem with that. But how close can something be to the real specs if they aren't Colt? See what I'm saying?

The bottom line is the OP asked about experience with a certain DPMS that I own two of. The other poster here admittedly has NO experience. I fail to see how anyone could say I was in the wrong on this issue. I'm not negating or discounting anyone. I don't come on Colt posts and talk shit because I have no experience. I wish others here would show the same respect.

People here are entitled to there opinions. But this OP didn't ask for someones "thoughts" or opinions.
I have no problem with someone commenting negatively against this particular DPMS as long as they have real experience with it to back it up.

So far if you bothered to read, the overwhelming majority of actual Oracle owners and users, have found them to be fine little guns.


ETA: I just thought of something that might actually be helpful instead of bickering back and forth. How about this...Instead of the he-said, she-said, how about I can take pictures of my gun? I don't mean just any pictures...I can take pictures of the build quality. You won't be able to see the materials or know the in's and out's, but I can show you the perfect M4 feedramps, The very little wear on the hard parts in over 2200rds, etc, etc.

I'm not claiming it's perfect. I can also show you pics of the "about average" fit and finish on the receivers. Like I said I have a few rounds down the pipe on mine and some good pictures of what one looks like after being run might really help some people thinking about getting one. Hell, it may give the haters some fuel for their fire. Everybody could win.

Seriously though, I would be happy to post some if anyone would be interested. I'm no photographer but I will try like hell. I would take any shot someone wanted to see.

Thanks,
FoxValleyTacDriver  [Member]
2/4/2012 1:01:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your gas-block front sight mounted backwards?

If so, why?

Originally Posted By Kwassing:
I purchased the Flat Top Oracle as well. Have several hundred rounds threw it with no issues. Cheap Steel or brass. Doesnt matter. I havent had any issues yet. I purchased it before i was a member here and before i really knew anything about em. Added a few things, iron sights, AFG, quad rail.. Does not have the forward assist or dust cover..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/hotsniper/photo4.jpg




I noticed that as well, i would flip it, adds a little bit to sight radius, otherwise i dont think it makes a difference
wolverine05  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 1:05:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?


Nobody here knows anything about specs? Quite a wide sweeping comment don't you think? You've just insulted everyone else on this forum. Just take it easy, and stop trying to sound as though you know everything. If you would take a DPMS over a PSA or Spikes then that is fine. But understand that it is likely that the overwhelming majority of others would not. I know that you like to go against the grain, but you need to realize that you are indeed going against the grain here.


Well, hello there. How are you?
You know very well what I meant when I said that. And it is completely accurate. If you know something about the TDP then I suppose Colt has really sucky security practices. That's what I meant and you know it. Nobody here really knows what the specs are is my point. If people want to believe their rifle has better specs I have no problem with that. But how close can something be to the real specs if they aren't Colt? See what I'm saying?

The bottom line is the OP asked about experience with a certain DPMS that I own two of. The other poster here admittedly has NO experience. I fail to see how anyone could say I was in the wrong on this issue. I'm not negating or discounting anyone. I don't come on Colt posts and talk shit because I have no experience. I wish others here would show the same respect.

People here are entitled to there opinions. But this OP didn't ask for someones "thoughts" or opinions.
I have no problem with someone commenting negatively against this particular DPMS as long as they have real experience with it to back it up.

So far if you bothered to read, the overwhelming majority of actual Oracle owners and users, have found them to be fine little guns.


ETA: I just thought of something that might actually be helpful instead of bickering back and forth. How about this...Instead of the he-said, she-said, how about I can take pictures of my gun? I don't mean just any pictures...I can take pictures of the build quality. You won't be able to see the materials or know the in's and out's, but I can show you the perfect M4 feedramps, The very little wear on the hard parts in over 2200rds, etc, etc.

I'm not claiming it's perfect. I can also show you pics of the "about average" fit and finish on the receivers. Like I said I have a few rounds down the pipe on mine and some good pictures of what one looks like after being run might really help some people thinking about getting one. Hell, it may give the haters some fuel for their fire. Everybody could win.

Seriously though, I would be happy to post some if anyone would be interested. I'm no photographer but I will try like hell. I would take any shot someone wanted to see.

Thanks,


We don't necessarily need to see photos of your DPMS. Most everyone knows what one looks like. I guess I'm still trying to understand your position. Are all specs unimportant? Are all parts the same?

I know that you don't like the he said/she said, but this is an internet forum. That's what 99% of it is. The fact is that you have 2 DPMS Oracle's that have run well for you through 2,200 rounds. That is great, and they may very well run flawlessly for 10,000 rounds. But, it is a sample size of 2, and means little. If a guy is buying an AR to shoot paper once in a while, then it really doesn't matter what mfg he purchases from. But, if it is going to see high round counts or is going to be used for defense purposes, things like specs start to matter. You don't have to have owned a DMPS to know that there are better options. As the old saying goes, I've never eaten a shit sandwich, but I know that it tastes like shit.

Here is a good way to look at it if you don't like the he said/she said. There are guys like Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers who have seen millions of rounds through thousands of different guns over many many years. They teach courses where you shoot 2,200 rounds in a weekend. They don't recommend DPMS. You can argue with me and you can argue with the next guy on the internet, but I wouldn't argue with Pat and LAV.
Rickymachinegun  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 1:17:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?


Nobody here knows anything about specs? Quite a wide sweeping comment don't you think? You've just insulted everyone else on this forum. Just take it easy, and stop trying to sound as though you know everything. If you would take a DPMS over a PSA or Spikes then that is fine. But understand that it is likely that the overwhelming majority of others would not. I know that you like to go against the grain, but you need to realize that you are indeed going against the grain here.


Well, hello there. How are you?
You know very well what I meant when I said that. And it is completely accurate. If you know something about the TDP then I suppose Colt has really sucky security practices. That's what I meant and you know it. Nobody here really knows what the specs are is my point. If people want to believe their rifle has better specs I have no problem with that. But how close can something be to the real specs if they aren't Colt? See what I'm saying?

The bottom line is the OP asked about experience with a certain DPMS that I own two of. The other poster here admittedly has NO experience. I fail to see how anyone could say I was in the wrong on this issue. I'm not negating or discounting anyone. I don't come on Colt posts and talk shit because I have no experience. I wish others here would show the same respect.

People here are entitled to there opinions. But this OP didn't ask for someones "thoughts" or opinions.
I have no problem with someone commenting negatively against this particular DPMS as long as they have real experience with it to back it up.

So far if you bothered to read, the overwhelming majority of actual Oracle owners and users, have found them to be fine little guns.


ETA: I just thought of something that might actually be helpful instead of bickering back and forth. How about this...Instead of the he-said, she-said, how about I can take pictures of my gun? I don't mean just any pictures...I can take pictures of the build quality. You won't be able to see the materials or know the in's and out's, but I can show you the perfect M4 feedramps, The very little wear on the hard parts in over 2200rds, etc, etc.

I'm not claiming it's perfect. I can also show you pics of the "about average" fit and finish on the receivers. Like I said I have a few rounds down the pipe on mine and some good pictures of what one looks like after being run might really help some people thinking about getting one. Hell, it may give the haters some fuel for their fire. Everybody could win.

Seriously though, I would be happy to post some if anyone would be interested. I'm no photographer but I will try like hell. I would take any shot someone wanted to see.

Thanks,


We don't necessarily need to see photos of your DPMS. Most everyone knows what one looks like. I guess I'm still trying to understand your position. Are all specs unimportant? Are all parts the same?

I know that you don't like the he said/she said, but this is an internet forum. That's what 99% of it is. The fact is that you have 2 DPMS Oracle's that have run well for you through 2,200 rounds. That is great, and they may very well run flawlessly for 10,000 rounds. But, it is a sample size of 2, and means little. If a guy is buying an AR to shoot paper once in a while, then it really doesn't matter what mfg he purchases from. But, if it is going to see high round counts or is going to be used for defense purposes, things like specs start to matter. You don't have to have owned a DMPS to know that there are better options. As the old saying goes, I've never eaten a shit sandwich, but I know that it tastes like shit.

Here is a good way to look at it if you don't like the he said/she said. There are guys like Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers who have seen millions of rounds through thousands of different guns over many many years. They teach courses where you shoot 2,200 rounds in a weekend. They don't recommend DPMS. You can argue with me and you can argue with the next guy on the internet, but I wouldn't argue with Pat and LAV.



What makes DPMS so inferior to the other brands?
syclone170  [Member]
2/4/2012 1:31:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.
Well, in the first place I am not stupid enough to run 700 rounds in a day. And I also venture to say that DPMS's do make it through training classes all the time, sure some will not, but other brands do also not make it through all the time.... If I had to fire 700 rounds in a SD situation, I don't think I would even be alive....

foursixty  [Member]
2/4/2012 3:41:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
[quote]Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
[quote]Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.


We don't necessarily need to see photos of your DPMS. Most everyone knows what one looks like. I guess I'm still trying to understand your position. Are all specs unimportant? Are all parts the same?

I know that you don't like the he said/she said, but this is an internet forum. That's what 99% of it is. The fact is that you have 2 DPMS Oracle's that have run well for you through 2,200 rounds. That is great, and they may very well run flawlessly for 10,000 rounds. But, it is a sample size of 2, and means little. If a guy is buying an AR to shoot paper once in a while, then it really doesn't matter what mfg he purchases from. But, if it is going to see high round counts or is going to be used for defense purposes, things like specs start to matter. You don't have to have owned a DMPS to know that there are better options. As the old saying goes, I've never eaten a shit sandwich, but I know that it tastes like shit.

Here is a good way to look at it if you don't like the he said/she said. There are guys like Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers who have seen millions of rounds through thousands of different guns over many many years. They teach courses where you shoot 2,200 rounds in a weekend. They don't recommend DPMS. You can argue with me and you can argue with the next guy on the internet, but I wouldn't argue with Pat and LAV.


Look, I fail to see your point. I never said there weren't better guns. Hell, I've owned several that I considered better. Nowhere did I say that. Nowhere did I dog out another brand. The OP asked about this particular gun and I responded with firsthand information. I may only have a sample size of two as you say, but that's a helluva lot more than a sample size of none. And I also fail to see why you have a dog in this fight. You don't own one either. Everybody is welcome to opinions. I can give you quite a few myself. But in this particular instance an opinion wasn't asked for. So why exactly are you harassing me? The man asked for experience and I gave mine along with other owners. What do you want me to say?

As far as LAV and your man Pat Rogers is concerned their endorsement means a lot to some, so it can't be discounted entirely. But I personally don't care. I only have my sample size of two to go by, and regardless if they, you, the whole world doesn't like them,........I still only have mine to go by. Once again, what do you want from me? Jeff Gordon probably recommends Chevrolet, but that wasn't the reason I bought mine.

Just so you know I am hard-headed, not pig-headed. I see what your talking about. But it doesn't make you any less wrong in this particular instance.
boarklr  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 3:47:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.[/quote ]

OP, bj is correct and he knows what he's talking about.

foursixty is uninformed and will one day have a severe case of buyer's remorse if he shoots and studies more.

As said above, in today's market, you can do better, spec wise, than the DPMS offering for a similar price.
boarklr  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 3:52:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rickymachinegun:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?


Nobody here knows anything about specs? Quite a wide sweeping comment don't you think? You've just insulted everyone else on this forum. Just take it easy, and stop trying to sound as though you know everything. If you would take a DPMS over a PSA or Spikes then that is fine. But understand that it is likely that the overwhelming majority of others would not. I know that you like to go against the grain, but you need to realize that you are indeed going against the grain here.


Well, hello there. How are you?
You know very well what I meant when I said that. And it is completely accurate. If you know something about the TDP then I suppose Colt has really sucky security practices. That's what I meant and you know it. Nobody here really knows what the specs are is my point. If people want to believe their rifle has better specs I have no problem with that. But how close can something be to the real specs if they aren't Colt? See what I'm saying?

The bottom line is the OP asked about experience with a certain DPMS that I own two of. The other poster here admittedly has NO experience. I fail to see how anyone could say I was in the wrong on this issue. I'm not negating or discounting anyone. I don't come on Colt posts and talk shit because I have no experience. I wish others here would show the same respect.

People here are entitled to there opinions. But this OP didn't ask for someones "thoughts" or opinions.
I have no problem with someone commenting negatively against this particular DPMS as long as they have real experience with it to back it up.

So far if you bothered to read, the overwhelming majority of actual Oracle owners and users, have found them to be fine little guns.


ETA: I just thought of something that might actually be helpful instead of bickering back and forth. How about this...Instead of the he-said, she-said, how about I can take pictures of my gun? I don't mean just any pictures...I can take pictures of the build quality. You won't be able to see the materials or know the in's and out's, but I can show you the perfect M4 feedramps, The very little wear on the hard parts in over 2200rds, etc, etc.

I'm not claiming it's perfect. I can also show you pics of the "about average" fit and finish on the receivers. Like I said I have a few rounds down the pipe on mine and some good pictures of what one looks like after being run might really help some people thinking about getting one. Hell, it may give the haters some fuel for their fire. Everybody could win.

Seriously though, I would be happy to post some if anyone would be interested. I'm no photographer but I will try like hell. I would take any shot someone wanted to see.

Thanks,


We don't necessarily need to see photos of your DPMS. Most everyone knows what one looks like. I guess I'm still trying to understand your position. Are all specs unimportant? Are all parts the same?

I know that you don't like the he said/she said, but this is an internet forum. That's what 99% of it is. The fact is that you have 2 DPMS Oracle's that have run well for you through 2,200 rounds. That is great, and they may very well run flawlessly for 10,000 rounds. But, it is a sample size of 2, and means little. If a guy is buying an AR to shoot paper once in a while, then it really doesn't matter what mfg he purchases from. But, if it is going to see high round counts or is going to be used for defense purposes, things like specs start to matter. You don't have to have owned a DMPS to know that there are better options. As the old saying goes, I've never eaten a shit sandwich, but I know that it tastes like shit.

Here is a good way to look at it if you don't like the he said/she said. There are guys like Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers who have seen millions of rounds through thousands of different guns over many many years. They teach courses where you shoot 2,200 rounds in a weekend. They don't recommend DPMS. You can argue with me and you can argue with the next guy on the internet, but I wouldn't argue with Pat and LAV.



What makes DPMS so inferior to the other brands?


SPECIFICATIONS

I copied this from Spikes tactical. Though not everything applies, look for things like high pressure, magnetic particle, tool steel, shot peened, chrome, 1:7, milspec, etc. These things are the precise reason why the DPMS is inferior. THE END!

CNC Machined from a 7075 T6 MIL-H-6088 Forging

* Extended M4 Feed Ramps Machined before Plating

* Mil-Spec 1913 Picatinny Rail

* MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish

* Laser Engraved T-markings

* Laser Engraved ST Spider logo

* Interior MIL-L-46010 Dryfilm Lube

* Mil-Spec Ejection Port Door Assembly with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* Mil-Spec Forward Assist Assembly with Tool Steel Pawl and 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Forged Mil-Spec Charging Handle with MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish


Barrel Group

* Barrel Steel is Certified MIL-B-11595E Chromoly Vanadium Alloy

* Raw Barrel Steel is Magnetic Particle Inspected

* Barrels are Stress Relieved

* Mil-Spec M4 Barrel Extension with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Chamber

* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* 5.56mm Nato chamber

* All Chambers are Individually Checked for Head Spacing Before and After Plating

* All Barrels are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

* 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish on the Barrel Exterior, Including under the Front Sight Base

* 1/2x28 Thread Pitch

* Threads are Cut Concentric to the Bore

* Forged F-Marked A2 Front Sight Base with Bayonet Lug and 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* FSB is Taper Pinned to the Barrel and Vertically Aligned

* Rubber Coated Front Sling Loop

* Mil-Spec 303 Stainless Steel Gas Tube enhanced with Melonite Finish

* Muzzle Devices are Properly Timed and installed with Crush Washer


Fore End Group

* M4 Hand Guards

* Round Hand Guard Cap with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Barrel Nut with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Delta Ring with MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish


Bolt Carrier Group

* Mil-Spec 8620 Tool Steel M16 Bolt Carrier with Shrouded Firing Pin

* Carrier is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* Laser Engraved with ST Spider Logo

* Mil-Spec Tool Steel Carrier Key

* Carrier Key is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* Carrier Key is installed with Grade 8 Hardware and Properly Staked

* Bolt is CNC Machined from Carpenter-158 Steel

* Bolt is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out

* All Bolts are Shot Peened per current Mil-Spec Requirements

* All Bolts are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

* Tool steel Extractor is Shot Peened, 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated, Fitted with a Mil-Spec Black Extractor Spring Insert and Mil-Spec Viton O-Ring

* Mil-Spec Firing Pin with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Finish

* Mil-Spec Cam Pin with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Firing Pin Retaining Pin with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating
foursixty  [Member]
2/4/2012 4:35:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By boarklr:
[quote]Originally Posted By Rickymachinegun:
[quote]Originally Posted By wolverine05:
[quote]Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By wolverine05:
[quote]Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
[quote]Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
[quote]Originally Posted By foursixty:
[quote]Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.


I copied this from Spikes tactical. Though not everything applies, look for things like high pressure, magnetic particle, tool steel, shot peened, chrome, 1:7, milspec, etc. These things are the precise reason why the DPMS is inferior. THE END!

CNC Machined from a 7075 T6 MIL-H-6088 Forging

* Extended M4 Feed Ramps Machined before Plating

* Mil-Spec 1913 Picatinny Rail

* MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish

* Laser Engraved T-markings

* Laser Engraved ST Spider logo

* Interior MIL-L-46010 Dryfilm Lube

* Mil-Spec Ejection Port Door Assembly with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* Mil-Spec Forward Assist Assembly with Tool Steel Pawl and 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Forged Mil-Spec Charging Handle with MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish


Barrel Group

* Barrel Steel is Certified MIL-B-11595E Chromoly Vanadium Alloy

* Raw Barrel Steel is Magnetic Particle Inspected

* Barrels are Stress Relieved

* Mil-Spec M4 Barrel Extension with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Chamber

* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* 5.56mm Nato chamber

* All Chambers are Individually Checked for Head Spacing Before and After Plating

* All Barrels are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

* 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish on the Barrel Exterior, Including under the Front Sight Base

* 1/2x28 Thread Pitch

* Threads are Cut Concentric to the Bore

* Forged F-Marked A2 Front Sight Base with Bayonet Lug and 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* FSB is Taper Pinned to the Barrel and Vertically Aligned

* Rubber Coated Front Sling Loop

* Mil-Spec 303 Stainless Steel Gas Tube enhanced with Melonite Finish

* Muzzle Devices are Properly Timed and installed with Crush Washer


Fore End Group

* M4 Hand Guards

* Round Hand Guard Cap with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Barrel Nut with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Delta Ring with MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish


Bolt Carrier Group

* Mil-Spec 8620 Tool Steel M16 Bolt Carrier with Shrouded Firing Pin

* Carrier is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* Laser Engraved with ST Spider Logo

* Mil-Spec Tool Steel Carrier Key

* Carrier Key is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* Carrier Key is installed with Grade 8 Hardware and Properly Staked

* Bolt is CNC Machined from Carpenter-158 Steel

* Bolt is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out

* All Bolts are Shot Peened per current Mil-Spec Requirements

* All Bolts are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

* Tool steel Extractor is Shot Peened, 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated, Fitted with a Mil-Spec Black Extractor Spring Insert and Mil-Spec Viton O-Ring

* Mil-Spec Firing Pin with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Finish

* Mil-Spec Cam Pin with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Firing Pin Retaining Pin with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating




Oh!!! Now I SEE!!!

It's all making perfect sense now. Now that you posted a brochure.....I mean spec sheet that clearly states MIL-SPEC about 56 times that must mean it's the real deal. Oh, the error of my ways.
All the "mil-spec" phosphate coatings on the barrel nut, and delta ring etc, is really nice. But what really seals the deal is the "rubberized sling loop". It's about time someone started making those things right.

And once again someone proves my point. You can rattle off these spec sheets (DPMS spec sheet looks very similar) yet you and nobody else actually knows what the spec is.
Now since you explained it to me I know my two rifles that have otherwise performed flawlessly are probably disintegrating in the corner right now. Well, not on my watch buddy...I will melt those pieces of shit down tomorrow and hope the scrap metal yard will take them. Thank you sir, thank you.
FennRx  [Member]
2/4/2012 4:40:51 PM EST
This says a lot about DPMS imho ymmv
Captain_Howdy  [Member]
2/4/2012 5:19:58 PM EST
this aint gonna last long at this rate...
scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 6:22:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By 14romeo:
I have put 2,400 rounds through mine in the last 6 months with only a single FTF. Quality wise mine is fine no blems on the finish no loose parts or the like. I can get 3in groups at 200yrds with bulk ammo, while it is not the "best most awesome tier one operator level" rifle around, if all your buddy is gonna use it for is the occasional weekend warrior plink-athon I see no reason why he shouldnt go for it.


You're getting 3 inch groups, at 200 yards......with bulk ammo?
scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 6:23:48 PM EST
And for fucks sake.....if you guys are going to quote each other, can you please edit the long ass posts?
allforgotten1  [Team Member]
2/4/2012 11:11:47 PM EST
My $.02

When you look at the argument of DPMS rifles failing people constantly, exaggerated or not, you have to look at the people using the rifles. I don't think people who buy DPMS are going to be as knowledgeable about maintenance as the people buying BCM or DD or Colt. Obviously the price of DPMS rifles appeals to the more casual shooter. If you look on DPMS's Facebook page you'll see all kinds of questions on there like "can I swap a .308 upper onto my 5.56 lower?" I HIGHLY doubt a Noveske rep is going to get that question posed to them. These people are getting into AR's for the first time. They don't have the knowledge base to take care of the rifle or accessorize it properly, so they have problems that many of us wouldn't. If you buy a BCM or other high end manufacturer you know how to love that rifle. You know what parts will work with it and what parts won't. You know what to clean, when to clean it. You know what to lube, when to replace springs, etc.

About mil-spec. The "mil-spec" coating on a Spikes BCG feels different than the "mil-spec" coating on a BCM BCG or the "mil-spec" coating on a Colt BCG. Don't tell me they're all the same. I've gone through an armorers class and compared Colt internals to DPMS internals and guess what... BOTH had issues, and both had marvels.
Why is it that so many soldiers have complained about their mil-spec rifles having issues? Maintenance issues perhaps? Uninformed users? Take your pick, but I'll bet it's along the same lines as those people complaining about their DPMS's.

I don't own a DPMS. I have had an LE 6920, 2 BCM's and a Noveske. They're all great mil-spec rifles, but they don't wash my car or make me sammiches. I plan to get a DPMS soon for a few reasons. I want to support a hometown company, they're cheap, simple and everything I've heard and read about their customer service is great so if I have issues I know they'll be resolved. But I don't anticipate any issues. As many actual users have said on here, they're great little rifles. Their vast amount of police contracts and the fact that they supply the Jordanian army (Jinkies! a different mil-spec!) supports that.
boarklr  [Team Member]
2/5/2012 4:07:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
[[quote]Originally Posted By Krylancelo:



Oh!!! Now I SEE!!!

It's all making perfect sense now. Now that you posted a brochure.....I mean spec sheet that clearly states MIL-SPEC about 56 times that must mean it's the real deal. Oh, the error of my ways.
All the "mil-spec" phosphate coatings on the barrel nut, and delta ring etc, is really nice. But what really seals the deal is the "rubberized sling loop". It's about time someone started making those things right.

And once again someone proves my point. You can rattle off these spec sheets (DPMS spec sheet looks very similar) yet you and nobody else actually knows what the spec is.
Now since you explained it to me I know my two rifles that have otherwise performed flawlessly are probably disintegrating in the corner right now. Well, not on my watch buddy...I will melt those pieces of shit down tomorrow and hope the scrap metal yard will take them. Thank you sir, thank you.


Sir, enjoy your DPMS rifles. I'm sure they'll serve you well (I truly mean this, no sarcasm intended). Of the specifications I listed above, many are key to enhancing the potential durability and reliability of the rifle under more extreme circumstances (I listed a few for you above the spec sheet). I agree that you'll likely never feel the difference. What many on here are trying to tell you is, for the same / similar price, there is absolutely NO DOWNSIDE to having these mil-spec(ish) parts, testing, and specifications. Thus, for an informed purchaser in today's buying environment, buying a DPMS doesn't make sense.

What I've said here is true, and the specs I've listed are not propaganda, they're technical specs. You're currently struggling with the notion that, "huh, maybe I should have gone another direction, but I've spent all this money so I'm going to ride this horse until it dies." This is okay for you because your rifles will probably work just fine. However, it's incorrect and misleading for you to try to convince the OP that the DPMS rifles are just as good, because (for the technical reasons listed above)....they aren't. If they were a few hundred dollars cheaper than a PSA, Spikes, etc., then it would be a different story. Then those shortcuts that DPMS is making might be worth it to some.

foursixty  [Member]
2/5/2012 4:50:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By boarklr:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
[[quote]Originally Posted By Krylancelo:



Oh!!! Now I SEE!!!

It's all making perfect sense now. Now that you posted a brochure.....I mean spec sheet that clearly states MIL-SPEC about 56 times that must mean it's the real deal. Oh, the error of my ways.
All the "mil-spec" phosphate coatings on the barrel nut, and delta ring etc, is really nice. But what really seals the deal is the "rubberized sling loop". It's about time someone started making those things right.

And once again someone proves my point. You can rattle off these spec sheets (DPMS spec sheet looks very similar) yet you and nobody else actually knows what the spec is.
Now since you explained it to me I know my two rifles that have otherwise performed flawlessly are probably disintegrating in the corner right now. Well, not on my watch buddy...I will melt those pieces of shit down tomorrow and hope the scrap metal yard will take them. Thank you sir, thank you.


Sir, enjoy your DPMS rifles. I'm sure they'll serve you well (I truly mean this, no sarcasm intended). Of the specifications I listed above, many are key to enhancing the potential durability and reliability of the rifle under more extreme circumstances (I listed a few for you above the spec sheet). I agree that you'll likely never feel the difference. What many on here are trying to tell you is, for the same / similar price, there is absolutely NO DOWNSIDE to having these mil-spec(ish) parts, testing, and specifications. Thus, for an informed purchaser in today's buying environment, buying a DPMS doesn't make sense.

What I've said here is true, and the specs I've listed are not propaganda, they're technical specs. You're currently struggling with the notion that, "huh, maybe I should have gone another direction, but I've spent all this money so I'm going to ride this horse until it dies." This is okay for you because your rifles will probably work just fine. However, it's incorrect and misleading for you to try to convince the OP that the DPMS rifles are just as good, because (for the technical reasons listed above)....they aren't. If they were a few hundred dollars cheaper than a PSA, Spikes, etc., then it would be a different story. Then those shortcuts that DPMS is making might be worth it to some.




No sir. I know your trying real hard to be right here. But I am afraid it is escaping you completely. The fact of the matter is I have owned several different brands of AR. I have and do own two of the exact guns that the original question was about. You as far as I know do not. You have favorite brands but NO firsthand experience. I don't know how else to explain that really.

And please, just please, knock it off with your propaganda. You still don't get it. I understand that you think when something says "mil-spec" then that's exactly what the military uses. Colt and FN are some of the only manufacturers that would truly know what "mil-spec" is. So you think you can post a Spikes "spec-sheet" in a post asking about a particular DPMS that you have NO experience with and somehow you come out the wise or "better informed" man???? Whatever.

Learn to read a little better. I wasn't comparing my particular DPMS or claiming it was better anywhere. I know as soon as you saw a post concerning DPMS you immediately saw red and rushed on to post about how they are junk and sub-standard same as most haters do, because after all, your doing a public service right? I mean, just because you don't and haven't owned one at all.....Don't let that slow you down from making numerous derogatory posts. What your doing is completely logical...... LOL

Oh, and by the way Spikes as far as I know isn't supplying our military so Bushmaster, DPMS, PSA, RRA, etc, etc, can all claim that theirs is mil-spec just as much as Spikes.

You think DPMS is substandard, believe me, your opinion is quite clear and has been noted. Unfortunately the question from the original post didn't ask.
You have the same opinion that many have I'm sure. Great. What do you want? A cookie??

What kind of gun do you shoot sir? Just IM it to me. Whenever someone asks about a gun you own I will be sure to jump on there and post how you can do sooooo much better. How whatever your shooting is substandard. I mean after all, that's how informed people do it, right??

azmp5  [Member]
2/5/2012 5:57:10 AM EST
To the OP (dont even want to get into this page long dick measuring contest);

As far as DPMS goes, imo they are good to go. are there better rifles, yes. are there worse rifles, yes. To get into the AR game, they offer a complete rifle for a good price. yeah, they may not be the "best" parts, but more then likely, at some time, you will probably upgrade parts. BUIS, handguard, trigger, who knows. but if u want 1, wanna go out and shoot paper/cans/whatever, it will do what you ask. If you 1 day wanna do a carbine course, 3 gun, or something more asking of your rifle, you may find out you need to either upgrade some parts to bring the rifle "up to speed' or build your own.

1 friend bought an Oracle in .223. cost him $600 and he goes to shoot paper. it shoots better then he does right now, but hes learning. overall the rifle looks great. yeah its not tricked out with magpul/psa/insert ARFCOM's flavor of the week brand here, but hes upgrading slowly as he sees the need for a part.

about the same time, another friend built his .223. spike low, POF lpk, magpul stock, psa upper, DPMS BCG, Troy rail. ect ect ect. Took alittle longer to get the parts together, cost more upfront, but in the end he didnt have to upgrade anything. hes riifle also looks great and he shoots it well (he just wanted an M4 style rifle and is happy at 100 yards and is happy with minute of man past that).

small rant/

As far as mi-lspec goes, its a good industry "standard" but commercial isnt all that bad. but by commercial, i throw any and all aftermarket companies into that category. if you think mil-spec is the best ever... then u never worked for the government. and if it wasnt for "commercial" all these aftermarket companies wouldnt exist. thankfully they make their parts to "mil-spec" standards. they could have easily said "u want our aftermarket/better parts for ur weapon, get our BETTER standards" but for the most part, they make stocks fit mil-spec tubes (not hard to adjust to), triggers fit the pin in the lower, BCG fit inside a receiver, but quality wise.. WAY better then mil-spec. rant off/

EDIT: also, do yourself a favor... dont go cheap and use WOLF/TULA ammo. yes.. i know, im opening a bag of worms here and people will say its fine. I am sure it is. but by not buying these cheaper rounds, you will have less "issues" ammo related. (and yes.. i know.. u can have the same issues with "tier 1" ammo, but it will come up less when you use brass case
Rojodiablo  [Member]
2/5/2012 6:15:07 AM EST

Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


PSA bumped the price to 700. Not that it matters much.

I have the Oracle, and it's been nothing but good. As it is, the Sport has sights on it, and the DPMS does not. To a new shooter, or those on a budget, that is the real difference.

No issues, and the rifle runs like a raped ape. It's very accurate. REAL damn accurate. It eats everything, and it's just a happy gun in general.


And seriously; until I see a test done where they take all the said MFG. rifles, all the same basic spec, and run the living shit out of them, I'd really rather not read a bunch of 'What if' conjecture. Plenty of dead guys because of Colt issues over the years. Plenty of GI's who have cussed their rifle because of it getting testy on them. They just need cleaning and service, and replacement magazines or parts. On the same note; plenty of LWRC and DD rifles that are shot 30 times and then the owner has to pet the barrel and tell you how she's cooling off so well because of the coating........ and then the thing gets anally polished and put back in the safe until the next range day. How on earth can you expect that kind of treatment to bring on issues?

Would love to see the 'Top 20' makers send in 1 rifle each, no spares, and everyone uses the same mags for say a 30K round thrashing over a week or 2. I bet..... I BET we'd see that most of these guns would be mechanically sound and running just fine.
And then we'd be back to poor boys ramming steel ammo thru theirs, and the guys with extra funds buying new chamois' to polish theirs and tell us how great they are.

And the Marines would just laugh at the whole thing, pick their shit up out of the dirt, and go back to base chuckling at all of it.
boarklr  [Team Member]
2/5/2012 6:20:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rojodiablo:

Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


PSA bumped the price to 700. Not that it matters much.

I have the Oracle, and it's been nothing but good. As it is, the Sport has sights on it, and the DPMS does not. To a new shooter, or those on a budget, that is the real difference.

No issues, and the rifle runs like a raped ape. It's very accurate. REAL damn accurate. It eats everything, and it's just a happy gun in general.


And seriously; until I see a test done where they take all the said MFG. rifles, all the same basic spec, and run the living shit out of them, I'd really rather not read a bunch of 'What if' conjecture. Plenty of dead guys because of Colt issues over the years. Plenty of GI's who have cussed their rifle because of it getting testy on them. They just need cleaning and service, and replacement magazines or parts. On the same note; plenty of LWRC and DD rifles that are shot 30 times and then the owner has to pet the barrel and tell you how she's cooling off so well because of the coating........ and then the thing gets anally polished and put back in the safe until the next range day. How on earth can you expect that kind of treatment to bring on issues?

Would love to see the 'Top 20' makers send in 1 rifle each, no spares, and everyone uses the same mags for say a 30K round thrashing over a week or 2. I bet..... I BET we'd see that most of these guns would be mechanically sound and running just fine.
And then we'd be back to poor boys ramming steel ammo thru theirs, and the guys with extra funds buying new chamois' to polish theirs and tell us how great they are.

And the Marines would just laugh at the whole thing, pick their shit up out of the dirt, and go back to base chuckling at all of it.


And you'd bet wrong. Google "Pat Rogers" or "EAG Tactical Training School"

"Hobby Guns" as he refers to those like DPMS have a much higher rate of going down than their milspec(ish) counterparts.
Rickymachinegun  [Team Member]
2/5/2012 6:32:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By boarklr:
Originally Posted By Rickymachinegun:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By bjkb1f:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
With prices how they are, there's really no reason to even look at DPMS. Please check out PSA, BCM, Spike's, Colt, or DD.

I mean if he refuses to go up in his price bracket at all or get a kit gun, I guess it's his only option. There are also people who buy hi-points because they refuse to spend more than $200. I personally wouldn't buy a gun if I couldn't afford enough to get a high quality one. My personal opinion.

Either way he goes, best of luck.


Do you own one? Do you have firsthand knowledge of the lack of quality? I may only have 2 examples, but they would beg to differ with you.


Are you stating DPMS is the same level of quality as Spikes, PSA, BCM, Colt and DD? Why buy a DPMS for $550 when you can get a PSA for $600?


No, I asked a question. And apparently you have NO experience with the rifle the OP asked about as I knew you didn't. As soon as someone asks about DPMS people rush on here to post about how they are pieces of shit. If you owned one and had problems then I could see your bias. But you are doing nothing but spreading internet gossip without facts.

I have never owned the rifles you asked about. For one I don't like Colt. Just my opinion and I'm not saying they aren't good. Obviously they are. DD is way out of my price range so I can't comment on it either. I would however take my DPMS over a Spikes or a PSA. And I think both PSA and Spikes are probably good to go. I like the fact that DPMS makes parts and weapons, not put them together using somebody else's. Different strokes for different folks.

I just wish when someone asked about something that people didn't immediately name favorite brands and why you would be crazy to buy "x" brand.

ETA: I know it may not be saying much but I have about 2200 through one and 12-1300 through the other one so far. No hiccups, no nothing. It does not discriminate whether it be brass or steel.


You're right. I have no exsperience with the rifle. I have no interest in buying lower quality firearms. I never once said they are pieces of shit. I said, for not much more, you can buy a better rifle, which is 100% true. Once you learn a thing or two about these rifles, you'll see the difference. Run that DPMS in a carbine course where you're firing 700 rounds in a day and running it fast and hard, then get back to me about how you'd take a DPMS over a Spikes or PSA. For plinking and hunting, yes DPMS is a fine rifle. The differences become apparent when the rifle is run hard without being cleaned every 200 rounds. There is a reason the military has their rifles built to a cetain spec. DPMS is not built to the same specs. PSA, Spikes, DD, etc are built as close to those specs as is possible. There is a reason people use these brands.

People here want to help, which is why we come to tell you about PSA, Spikes, BCM, etc. We're trying to save you from buying something inferior that you may regret later. I almost bought a DPMS for my first AR, so I know where you're coming from. Now, I'm glad I didn't. I sincerely hope that if you buy a DPMS it works flawlessly for you, especially, God forbid, if you should ever have to trust it with your life. Good luck.


So you came to tell me about how you know my rifle is inferior and would fail during a life or death encounter and a carbine course yet you admit you have NO experience with said rifle??

Brilliant.

I have two that are run hard and they have no issues. I have over 2200rds through mine with no issues. You don't know anything about specs. Neither does anyone else here. You want to talk about TDP that Colt and the like has, yet you have no idea what that means. The only thing people like you can claim is MPI/HP testing and barrel twist. This happens at least twice a week. I have said it before and I will say it again...a 3rd or 4rth party bolt built by I don't know who and stamped with MPI/HP means next to nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the fact that my rifle has been 100% reliable since day one, and accurate to boot. You can save your sermon about how you know how inferior my rifle is because I am not new to AR's and I'm not listening. I have a mind of my own and can make my own evaluations based on FIRSTHAND knowledge, not regurgitated internet bullshit.

I owned an Armalite prior to owning this one and I would have gladly put it up beside any Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc. So I am not new, and I am not ill-informed.
And yes, I meant what I said, I will gladly take my DPMS over any Spikes or PSA product. That's my opinion. But I don't have the need to tell people that like them that "there are better options" etc, etc.

Why don't you just ease up out of this conversation since you have nothing to add to the subject other than internet gossip?


Nobody here knows anything about specs? Quite a wide sweeping comment don't you think? You've just insulted everyone else on this forum. Just take it easy, and stop trying to sound as though you know everything. If you would take a DPMS over a PSA or Spikes then that is fine. But understand that it is likely that the overwhelming majority of others would not. I know that you like to go against the grain, but you need to realize that you are indeed going against the grain here.


Well, hello there. How are you?
You know very well what I meant when I said that. And it is completely accurate. If you know something about the TDP then I suppose Colt has really sucky security practices. That's what I meant and you know it. Nobody here really knows what the specs are is my point. If people want to believe their rifle has better specs I have no problem with that. But how close can something be to the real specs if they aren't Colt? See what I'm saying?

The bottom line is the OP asked about experience with a certain DPMS that I own two of. The other poster here admittedly has NO experience. I fail to see how anyone could say I was in the wrong on this issue. I'm not negating or discounting anyone. I don't come on Colt posts and talk shit because I have no experience. I wish others here would show the same respect.

People here are entitled to there opinions. But this OP didn't ask for someones "thoughts" or opinions.
I have no problem with someone commenting negatively against this particular DPMS as long as they have real experience with it to back it up.

So far if you bothered to read, the overwhelming majority of actual Oracle owners and users, have found them to be fine little guns.


ETA: I just thought of something that might actually be helpful instead of bickering back and forth. How about this...Instead of the he-said, she-said, how about I can take pictures of my gun? I don't mean just any pictures...I can take pictures of the build quality. You won't be able to see the materials or know the in's and out's, but I can show you the perfect M4 feedramps, The very little wear on the hard parts in over 2200rds, etc, etc.

I'm not claiming it's perfect. I can also show you pics of the "about average" fit and finish on the receivers. Like I said I have a few rounds down the pipe on mine and some good pictures of what one looks like after being run might really help some people thinking about getting one. Hell, it may give the haters some fuel for their fire. Everybody could win.

Seriously though, I would be happy to post some if anyone would be interested. I'm no photographer but I will try like hell. I would take any shot someone wanted to see.

Thanks,


We don't necessarily need to see photos of your DPMS. Most everyone knows what one looks like. I guess I'm still trying to understand your position. Are all specs unimportant? Are all parts the same?

I know that you don't like the he said/she said, but this is an internet forum. That's what 99% of it is. The fact is that you have 2 DPMS Oracle's that have run well for you through 2,200 rounds. That is great, and they may very well run flawlessly for 10,000 rounds. But, it is a sample size of 2, and means little. If a guy is buying an AR to shoot paper once in a while, then it really doesn't matter what mfg he purchases from. But, if it is going to see high round counts or is going to be used for defense purposes, things like specs start to matter. You don't have to have owned a DMPS to know that there are better options. As the old saying goes, I've never eaten a shit sandwich, but I know that it tastes like shit.

Here is a good way to look at it if you don't like the he said/she said. There are guys like Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers who have seen millions of rounds through thousands of different guns over many many years. They teach courses where you shoot 2,200 rounds in a weekend. They don't recommend DPMS. You can argue with me and you can argue with the next guy on the internet, but I wouldn't argue with Pat and LAV.



What makes DPMS so inferior to the other brands?


SPECIFICATIONS

I copied this from Spikes tactical. Though not everything applies, look for things like high pressure, magnetic particle, tool steel, shot peened, chrome, 1:7, milspec, etc. These things are the precise reason why the DPMS is inferior. THE END!

CNC Machined from a 7075 T6 MIL-H-6088 Forging

* Extended M4 Feed Ramps Machined before Plating

* Mil-Spec 1913 Picatinny Rail

* MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish

* Laser Engraved T-markings

* Laser Engraved ST Spider logo

* Interior MIL-L-46010 Dryfilm Lube

* Mil-Spec Ejection Port Door Assembly with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* Mil-Spec Forward Assist Assembly with Tool Steel Pawl and 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Forged Mil-Spec Charging Handle with MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish


Barrel Group

* Barrel Steel is Certified MIL-B-11595E Chromoly Vanadium Alloy

* Raw Barrel Steel is Magnetic Particle Inspected

* Barrels are Stress Relieved

* Mil-Spec M4 Barrel Extension with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Chamber

* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* 5.56mm Nato chamber

* All Chambers are Individually Checked for Head Spacing Before and After Plating

* All Barrels are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

* 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish on the Barrel Exterior, Including under the Front Sight Base

* 1/2x28 Thread Pitch

* Threads are Cut Concentric to the Bore

* Forged F-Marked A2 Front Sight Base with Bayonet Lug and 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish

* FSB is Taper Pinned to the Barrel and Vertically Aligned

* Rubber Coated Front Sling Loop

* Mil-Spec 303 Stainless Steel Gas Tube enhanced with Melonite Finish

* Muzzle Devices are Properly Timed and installed with Crush Washer


Fore End Group

* M4 Hand Guards

* Round Hand Guard Cap with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Barrel Nut with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Delta Ring with MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish


Bolt Carrier Group

* Mil-Spec 8620 Tool Steel M16 Bolt Carrier with Shrouded Firing Pin

* Carrier is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* Laser Engraved with ST Spider Logo

* Mil-Spec Tool Steel Carrier Key

* Carrier Key is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* Carrier Key is installed with Grade 8 Hardware and Properly Staked

* Bolt is CNC Machined from Carpenter-158 Steel

* Bolt is 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated inside and out

* All Bolts are Shot Peened per current Mil-Spec Requirements

* All Bolts are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

* Tool steel Extractor is Shot Peened, 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coated, Fitted with a Mil-Spec Black Extractor Spring Insert and Mil-Spec Viton O-Ring

* Mil-Spec Firing Pin with 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Finish

* Mil-Spec Cam Pin with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating

* Mil-Spec Firing Pin Retaining Pin with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Coating


clever marketing on spikes part (which you obviously fell victim to)

which of these specs make their rifles any more reliable, durable, or accurate than any DPMS in comparable price range?

every DPMS ive owned in the past which consists of two builds and a complete Oracle has worked without flaw

I have used one of my builds in a carbine course and it didnt fail once I trust DPMS products and Id recommend them to anyone looking



Troy Medeval break
Troy midlength forend
Troy front sight
DPMS AP4 barrel, low pro gas block, Upper receiver, Lower receiver, upper parts kit, lower parts kit, H buffer, buffer spring
Matech rear BUIS
Magpul CTR, Miad grip

I also found this a little later after i posted this response

i definitely trust Knight's Armament over spike's tactical any day of the week
Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:
Originally Posted By semperfiws6:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Are they Carpenter steel?

Btw, for those who don't know HPT significantly reduces the life of the bolt. Bolts made to the mild pec with the exception of HPT last about 40% longer.


Do you have a reference for that?


Several industry professionals have stated HPT does cause premature wear and have stopped using it.

I know threads from TOS is usually not well accepted here,but here is a couple of lengthy threads on the subject with some very respected names involved:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1008341#post1008341

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=306620#post306620

allforgotten1  [Team Member]
2/5/2012 8:43:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By azmp5:
if you think mil-spec is the best ever... then u never worked for the government.

Thank you. I forgot that in my post.
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