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 how much does a reliable, solid AR15 Cost? how to wade through all the differences
syclone0252  [Member]
1/17/2011 8:15:37 PM
well I am finally able to buy my first black gun, and I've been reading on here a lot, and the rabbit hole just goes deeper

so I guess what I am asking is how much do I need to spend for a good reliable, solid gun?

and there are so many options out there, how do you know whats-what?

I am very familiar with the M16A1, M16A2, M4 military rifles, I've been in the army for 21 years and counting, but all this aftermarket stuff is mind numbing.

I like the light weight of the Bushmaster Carbon 15 Model 4 Carbine, just not sure how it will hold up, and cant find much on it here about it, the Search only goes back 30 days.

I'm looking for a complete rifle, but I also have a RR lower and RR 2 stage trigger I bought during the Obama scare (just in case), so I could use that I guess.

but I am a lefty and have seen a couple of lefty setups for sale as well, but I dont have a real problem operating a right handed gun, I've learned over the last 20 years to make it work
for me, (it sucked with the A1's nothing like hot brass down the collar) but with the M4 other than the obsessional brass down the sleeve, no problems.

what are the best deals going? thanks in advance.



FMJ  [Team Member]
1/17/2011 8:21:15 PM
The STAG Lefty I looked at was very nice
could just buy a upper to slap on the RRA lower


I dont care for carbon bushmasters

M4 uppers
Noveske N4 etc!
Colt,LMT,BCM,
STAG LE UPPERS,DD,SPIKES seems to have the same specs
durabo  [Member]
1/17/2011 8:29:34 PM
I personally prefer to build my own. Complete, all parts.

That way I know the quality of each individual component. There is no guesswork. I can spec it out exactly how i want, and there are never takeoff parts or leftovers.

In your case that new ambidextrous CMMG stripped upper would be something to check out.


I would stay away from the Carbon 15... If you are looking to go lightweight here is what you do..

Cav Arms or Plum Crazy lower... Light weight or pencil barrel at 14.5 with a perm attached hider. Then use a REAL upper i.e. not plastic... like that CMMG ambi upper.

But really, if you just go with lightweight profile barrel and a free float tube w/o rails... you can keep the numbers around 7lbs easy.


ETA

$500 will get you shooting
$800 will get you shooting with solid quality.
$1000 will get you bells and whistles.
$1200 will get you top notch.

Shadeaux  [Team Member]
1/17/2011 8:39:49 PM
Stag makes good gear for around $850. They are Lefty compliant, also I have a model 2 and have put about 3000 rounds through it and have only had 3 FTF because of ammunition (steel cased ripped the bottom off). Other than that I have had no problems what so ever with the weapon.

There are of course others as reliable for much more money. Some would say others are more reliable but it's a relative question to me. If it goes bang every time and doesn't break it's GTG.

Someday I'll splurge and buy a high end Colt or DD or LT just because, but for now I'll just shoot the piss out of my Stag.
syclone0252  [Member]
1/17/2011 8:59:16 PM
well I am kinda liking the stag arms, Left handed upper $495.00 seems cheap for a upper and a bolt, etc.

and plumb crazy complete lower to cut down on the weight,

I know from 2 deployments to Iraq, if you start putting all the cool stuff on your gun it gets heavier quick, which become annoying on those long patrols.

just gets kinda uncomfortable, if held at the ready for a long time, by the time I came home I had taken off everything but my Acog and surefire, and made my own sling. (lefty)
edp3  [Team Member]
1/17/2011 9:28:06 PM
FWIW, I have been reading the AARs on the lightfighter forum and Pat Rogers opinion on the left handed stags is not favorable.

Check out Spikes
Quentin  [Member]
1/17/2011 9:36:59 PM
Well if you like the Stag lefty upper and have a RRA lower it sounds like you're set. I'd skip the Plum Crazy lower, you won't notice much difference in weight going with your RRA.

Only problem with the lefty, you train with issue rifles so does it make sense to change?
syclone0252  [Member]
1/17/2011 9:43:09 PM
Originally Posted By edp3:
FWIW, I have been reading the AARs on the lightfighter forum and Pat Rogers opinion on the left handed stags is not favorable.

Check out Spikes


I'm not seeing a left handed upper on the page, which part # is it?
Cdenmark  [Member]
1/17/2011 9:47:28 PM
I'm left handed and would not recommend a left handed AR. Makes it too complicated and if you have a problem there is no easy fix, your rifle is down. I put deflectors on my slicksides and otherwise buy uppers with deflectors. The left handed stuff is cool but I wouldn't recommend it personally. Keep it simple. Granted AR's with good parts are basically full proof but why pay extra to chance it. Right side ejection is the only way to fly in my opinion. Figure $700 and up for something decent. Sounds like all you really need is an upper. It really depends on what you are going to do with the rifle or carbine. I'm pretty much into lightweights right now. Good quality is pretty much a standard with AR parts and I've had virtually no failures in over 15K rounds from any AR. I have a bunch of them also. I mostly target shoot and groundhog blast. I use Colt BCG's (bought cheap), good quality barrels, milspec uppers, lowers and LPK's. It works. Most the high buck stuff is just marketing genious. Bushmaster carbon fiber is okay but I'll pass on that also, as Bushmaster may or may not be leaving us early this year. As far as I know the letter L at the end of the model # denotes left handed on a Stag. If you want light you need to start with a lightweight barrel. I bought a J&T lw 16" chrome lined upper that has been super impressive and the carbine with mag and sling weighs less than 7 lbs and it was cheap. Shoots with anything I've seen out to 300 yards rifle or carbine. Have fun.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
1/17/2011 9:50:10 PM
SPIKES TACTICAL M4LE

they also have a mid length but you mentioned the m4 i figured it would be a nice setup and it comes ready to go, great company btw with great CS.

spikes doesnt make lefty ar's but you also said you are familiar with reg rifles so it should not be a problem

also pretty sure arfcom members get a discount of like 10% on spikes stuff(but dont hold me to it i may be wrong someone can correct me if so)
syclone0252  [Member]
1/17/2011 9:59:10 PM
Thanks Bud!!!!
pun  [Member]
1/17/2011 10:06:15 PM
$850 for quality tested Parts equal to Colt and thats Spikes tactical...the cheapest going for quality on Par with Colt,BCM,Daniel Defense.
dogbutter99  [Member]
1/17/2011 10:41:16 PM
i would start with a quality but low price AR.

it's difficult to know what you all want with your first rifle.. and learning about it all before you buy one is unrealistic. because what you want is not going to be same as other ppl want.

what's low price and good? alot of choices.. RRA, Del-ton, Spikes .. only thing i recommend is a flat top upper so you scope it or put a carry handle if you want.. just more option later.

any of those guns will be solid base for upgrades. on delton web site.. i see basic 16" GUN 750$.. cannot go wrong with it.. i hear alot of good things about del ton.


86HMMWV  [Member]
1/17/2011 10:41:45 PM
Originally Posted By durabo:
$500 will get you shooting
$800 will get you shooting with solid quality.
$1000 will get you bells and whistles.
$1200 will get you top notch.

I like this breakdown.
goldeneye  [Member]
1/17/2011 10:49:53 PM
Originally Posted By 86HMMWV:
Originally Posted By durabo:
$500 will get you shooting
$800 will get you shooting with solid quality.
$1000 will get you bells and whistles.
$1200 will get you top notch.

I like this breakdown.


I think I would agree with this. Buds Gun Shop has Doublestar ARs for $660. However, I recently bought a BCM upper with BCM BCG and CH for $535 and a Spikes lower for $250 and had myself a solid gun for around $900 with rear sight and hanguards.
FMJ  [Team Member]
1/17/2011 10:55:58 PM
Originally Posted By syclone0252:
well I am kinda liking the stag arms, Left handed upper $495.00 seems cheap for a upper and a bolt, etc.

and plumb crazy complete lower to cut down on the weight,

I know from 2 deployments to Iraq, if you start putting all the cool stuff on your gun it gets heavier quick, which become annoying on those long patrols.

just gets kinda uncomfortable, if held at the ready for a long time, by the time I came home I had taken off everything but my Acog and surefire, and made my own sling. (lefty)



You might ask STAG if you can get there Lefty upper in
1/7 twist instead of 1/9

Also you could ask about a 14.5 + Phantom

Stag will weld the phantom on

Ask them to make you a LE Lefty upper


If you are scared of the left handed upper you can order the right hand
The STAG LEM4 uppers have the same specs as Colt,LMT,BCM

Last time I looked the STAG LE M4 Upper cost 550.00

TheRealBluedog  [Member]
1/17/2011 11:30:49 PM
A solid reliable AR rifle requires a solid reliable AR owner. I can make any AR run and run well, even if it requires replacing a few parts. Any AR will malfunction if not properly maintained, and any AR can be made to function properly. You just have to know what you are doing.

That knowledge is available here. This is the place for some of the best AR info you can find anywhere. You just need to know that a certain percentage of the most prolific posters here are idiot gear queers who learned everything they ever needed to know about shooting by reading this forum. You can soon learn to tell who to listen to, and who to ignore.

I too am a lefty, and I suggest you don't worry about that. You need a reversible safety, and that's it. The AR is very lefty friendly. Beyond that, what do you want to do? I think the M4 pattern is the most versatile layout. If you want a nice knock around carbine, that's the way to go. If you hump it a lot, go for a light barrel. Other that that, buy a Del-ton and a couple thousand rounds of ammo and get shooting. If it breaks, come here and find out why. Just remember, for every $100 you save on buying the gun, you can get about 300 rounds of decent ammo and actually shoot it.

Just so you know, I have an unfired Noveske in my basement safe right now. It's not mine. It belongs to a friend who has owned it for about 4 years. His wife will not let him keep it in his house, and he's afraid to fire it because he has too much money into it. It's "the best" though! LOL! I build my own ARs. My main shooter has a Bushmaster Lower, but not much else. I'm also fond of RRA parts. Neither are popular with the arfcom gear queers, but you'll never see me asking their advice anyway.

Good luck, and impress people with your shooting, not your gear.
beretta16  [Member]
1/17/2011 11:51:18 PM
If you can't afford a Noveske, get a Daniel Defense. If you can't afford a DD, get a BCM. If you can't afford a BCM, get a Spikes. If you can't afford a Spikes, get an AK.

chadwick76  [Team Member]
1/18/2011 1:26:25 AM
Originally Posted By beretta16:
If you can't afford a Noveske, get a Daniel Defense. If you can't afford a DD, get a BCM. If you can't afford a BCM, get a Spikes. If you can't afford a Spikes, get an AK.



very solid advice
fuzzy03cls  [Member]
1/18/2011 10:47:22 AM
The reality is any AR made today should be reliable as any other one. There maybe a few lemons here & there & that's to be expected. You can spend more $ & limit the chances you will have a problem come up & get some better quality control. It's up to you & what your going to use a AR for. Lets face it most that own a AR are not going to war & most are not using the rifles for what they are meant be be used. Most are weekend range shooters. Hell I know 3 people that own a AR & never shoot the thing.
Decide honestly what your rifle's purpose is, Get a budget, & then shop around. Good thing about today's AR market is there are a ton of options. Since the ban expired in 04 many people are in the AR market. This has increased parts reliability & availability.
CTbuilder1  [Team Member]
1/18/2011 11:02:13 AM
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