AR15.Com Archives
 .223 or 5.56 which is more accurate?
mknherhappy  [Member]
9/20/2007 1:37:13 PM
Is there any accuracy difference between the two cartridges?

Thanks for you input.

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Foxxz  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 1:40:34 PM
I shouldn't be posting this since its just a guess based on my own logic.

Either is accurate depending on what your rifle is sighted in for. 5.56 is loaded for higher pressure and has a flatter trajectory so some may say it is more accurate.

Feel free to flame me if I'm wrong.

-Foxxz
hellbound  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 1:46:54 PM
wouldn't a tighter .223 chamber (shorter throat) be more accurate?

hence the reasoning behind the wylde chamber which splits the difference in the throat length, allowing the use of higher pressure 5.56 rounds with better accuracy...
LoneWolfUSMC  [Member]
9/20/2007 2:34:27 PM
There are more variables at work than just the chamber dimensions.

You also didn't mention with what bullets and seated to what COL.
fsk1290  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 2:36:04 PM
oh boy...........here we go.......................
GiggleSmith  [Member]
9/20/2007 2:40:13 PM
I'm ready!

DM1975  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 2:43:52 PM
M4builder  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 2:58:56 PM
Beam me up Scotty!!!



The difference is what is your purpose in shooting?
Are you going for the 600 yd line with 80 gr BTHPs, or, are you going for the 300 yd line with what ever you can afford to shoot.

You may want to look in the precision shooters forum.
Phoebus  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 3:00:49 PM
Just saying .223 or 5.56 doesn't really give enough information to say "X is more accurate than Y".

longbow_06  [Member]
9/20/2007 3:32:17 PM
From my own experience... Which is not alot...

I have found that out of my Bushy M4gery and Bushy 20" predator, PMC .223 55grain rounds were more accurate than XM193 5.56 55grain rounds.

The predator loves FGMM 69grain loads.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Lee
hickerx2  [Member]
9/20/2007 4:28:27 PM
There is absolutely zero difference between the two regarding "inherent" accuracy.

If you add variables such as chamber type, barrel type, etc...there will be a difference that is introduced.

A shilen barrel chambered in .223 will be just as accurate as the same Shilem bbl chambered in 5.56. That is of course, if you shoot the right rounds in the right barrel.

Generally, I think it's fair to say that a 5.56 round would be more accurate in a 5.56-chambered barrel than a .223 would be.

All this micro-analyzing that goes on regarding combat-tactical-style rifles is pretty ridiculous anyway. Does an M-4 need to shoot sub-MOA?

Is there a practical difference between 1.5MOA and 2.0MOA? Even at 600M, that difference equates to only approx. 3". The reason that different rifles are chambered differently is mostly a matter of mechanics, not accuracy.

Find a load that the rifle shoots fairly well and shoot a lot of it

Of course, my statements exclude precision rifles. They're another argument altogether.

I'm not really even sure how the rifles from high-end precision manufacturers(McBros, Steyr, etc) are chambered. If not under contract, I'd assume a SAAMI chamber for the .308??
JJREA  [Member]
9/20/2007 5:23:12 PM

Originally Posted By hellbound:
wouldn't a tighter .223 chamber (shorter throat) be more accurate?

hence the reasoning behind the wylde chamber which splits the difference in the throat length, allowing the use of higher pressure 5.56 rounds with better accuracy...


He asked about the cartridge specifically, not the hardware.

In my limited experience, higher pressure usually results in less accuracy. But this is not always going to be true and there are so many variables it makes the question impossible to have one answer.

DevL  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 5:35:03 PM

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By hellbound:
wouldn't a tighter .223 chamber (shorter throat) be more accurate?

hence the reasoning behind the wylde chamber which splits the difference in the throat length, allowing the use of higher pressure 5.56 rounds with better accuracy...


He asked about the cartridge specifically, not the hardware.

In my limited experience, higher pressure usually results in less accuracy. But this is not always going to be true and there are so many variables it makes the question impossible to have one answer.



The above is correct.

There are so many untruths in this thread I dont know where to start. All things being equal the .223 is more accurate.

A 5.56 chambered Shilen is NOT as accurate as a .223 chambered Shilen.
A faster 5.56 load is NOT more accurate because of more speed.
5.56 is NOT more accurate out of a 5.56 chamber.
.223 is NOT less accurate out a 5.56 chamber.


77 grain Sierra SMK in .223 like BH or Federal... more accurate than 5.56 pressure MK 262

.223 Honady 75 grain OTM loaded by BH, Hornady as Match or TAP is more accureate than 75 grain 5.56 pressure TAP.
JoeRe  [Member]
9/20/2007 5:44:45 PM
Devl., this is pure BS! Neither chambering is inherently more accurate than the other and your velocity comments are equally foolish, IMHO!
DevL  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 5:49:17 PM

Originally Posted By JoeRe:
Devl., this is pure BS! Neither chambering is inherently more accurate than the other and your velocity comments are equally foolish, IMHO!


Hey I just post facts bud. I know we had a fiasco with 5.56 chambers by an unnamed barrel manufacturer. Not only did he lose money because the 5.56 chambers could not maintain his sub MOA accuracy guarantee and most had to be redonebut but now the maker will no longer warranty the accuracy of 5.56 chambers. Fact is... 5.56 chambers are less accurate.

Get someknowledge and come back and stop posting your info that is made up in your head and learn from REAL shooting and quote me some REAL examples. I gave real examples of 5.56 ammo being less accurate and 5.56 chambers being less accurate. If you want to refute it... give some real examples.


A longer, wider freebore and a longer and larger body size does not mean you get "eqaul" accuracy from 5.56 chambers. I am talking REAL NATO 5.56 chambers not some 5.56 Match proprietary chamber like Noveske uses.
JoeRe  [Member]
9/20/2007 7:33:22 PM
Gosh Devl., instead of doing more shooting, I think I'll just rack up thousands of posts on an internet forum so I can call myself an expert! A longer throat and different shoulder angle along with a higher SAAMI pressure rating DOES NOT MAKE the 5.56 inherently less accurate even if some maker got a bad reamer! Now, if you shoot factory spec .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, you may suffer some accuracy, but so you would if you shot factory .223 out of a 30-30!
hickerx2  [Member]
9/20/2007 9:07:00 PM

Originally Posted By JoeRe:
Gosh Devl., instead of doing more shooting, I think I'll just rack up thousands of posts on an internet forum so I can call myself an expert! A longer throat and different shoulder angle along with a higher SAAMI pressure rating DOES NOT MAKE the 5.56 inherently less accurate even if some maker got a bad reamer! Now, if you shoot factory spec .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, you may suffer some accuracy, but so you would if you shot factory .223 out of a 30-30!


+1

Looks like Devl needs some pRaKtiZ

He's apparently one of those guys that knows it's so....because his brother's, uncle's, sister's, grandpa's, mother's, boyfriend saw it happen...LOL

Those 5.56 chambers are a sure way to ruin a fine barrel
And to think....all one has to do to prove it is shoot .223 ammo out of it!
M4builder  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 9:15:34 PM
Wow, the hostility level in this thread is a bit high, eh?

It would seem that 5.56mm would be most accurate in a 5.56mm chamber, and .223 would be most accurate in a .223 chamber.

Phoebus  [Team Member]
9/20/2007 9:19:49 PM

Originally Posted By JoeRe:
Gosh Devl., instead of doing more shooting, I think I'll just rack up thousands of posts on an internet forum so I can call myself an expert! A longer throat and different shoulder angle along with a higher SAAMI pressure rating DOES NOT MAKE the 5.56 inherently less accurate even if some maker got a bad reamer! Now, if you shoot factory spec .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, you may suffer some accuracy, but so you would if you shot factory .223 out of a 30-30!


You are wrong.

I know it hurts.

Sorry DevL.
Brander  [Team Member]
9/21/2007 12:20:31 AM
I'm not sure there is any inherent difference difference in accuracy between 5.56 and .223, but there are a lot more different ammo choices available in .223, and most precision shooters use .223. However, I'm fairly sure you could work up a load that meets 5.56 specs in a match 5.56 chamber that would be just as accurate as .223 match ammo in a match chamber.

BTW, among match and hybrid chambers, the Wylde chambers, as noted on the link, use larger body dimensions and longer freebore than most. It was designed not as much for precision accuracy as it was for reliability across a broad range of ammo.

Link

Edited to fix link

eguns-com  [Industry Partner]
9/21/2007 12:35:23 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but the 5.56 chamber was developed to handle a wider variety of military ammo including tracers, spotting rounds, AP, etc. which all will have different COL etc. But the bog std M193 / SS109 type ammo is more like a 223 in terms of COL. I understand it may have more pressure, etc. but COL is more like a std 223 round. A 223 round in a 223 chamber will probably perform better than an M193/SS019 in a 5.56 chamber ignoring things like barrel resonance and other firearms specific things that affect accuracy, because of the longer throat/freebore in the 5.56 chamber due to speccing for all types of military ammo. Whether a 5.56 M192 or SS109 (M855) round in a 223 chamber is better or worse than a 223 in the same chamber comes down more to the quality of the ammo and its construction (a good 5.56 round may work better than a cheap 223 with crap powder for example) and components, as well as the specific firearms characteristics, barrel resonance, etc.

I am not an expert on this but have been around a while and read lots of "technical articles" and peoples opinions on the matter and the above seems reasonable.

Chad
roadhog481  [Team Member]
9/21/2007 12:44:49 AM

Originally Posted By DM1975:


ROFL..... not this again In before the colt supremacist's
hickerx2  [Member]
9/21/2007 12:36:46 PM

Originally Posted By roadhog481:

ROFL..... not this again In before the colt supremacist's


LOL, you know damn well that Colts are not accurate at all....they use 5.56 chambers in those guns


Anywho.....
I'd bet all the marbles that every world accuracy record set with a .223, could have been duplicated if the particular shooter's barrel was chambered in 5.56!

They would have simply adjusted the load and tailored it to the rifle. I'm not an AR expert, but I've been a precision shooter for many years. Even a high-end custom chamber doesn't conform to any "absolute" spec and BR shooters only size about 1/16" of the neck anyway.....so it's impossible for the chamber to be "less accurate" as long as the general design is correct.

A particular cartridge design can be more inherently accurate than another, but .223/5.56 are practically identical in design.

Anyway....not directed at you but I'm too lazy to make another post
AtlantaFireman  [Team Member]
9/21/2007 12:59:26 PM

Originally Posted By hickerx2:
There is absolutely zero difference between the two regarding "inherent" accuracy.


+1
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