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 300 yard group shot with my Colt HBAR Elite: 56K warning
AtlantaFireman  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 10:39:03 AM
Photo says it all.

This Colt HBAR Elite barrel would not hold 3" at 100 yards when I got it many years ago: way before the ban. For $1100, one would think that it would shoot out of the box. I had it electro-polished, bore tapered, and cryogenically treated ($225+/-). It would shoot tighter if it had a Wylde or CLE chamber instead of a 5.56 chamber....it would also shoot tighter if Colt would have used a REAL match barrel. I have been shooting 3" plates at 300 yards with it for several years. I finally decided to put in on paper. Used Weaver V-16 scope. Edited to add: barrel is 1:9 twist, very soft stainless, RC-25! It will not shoot heavier bullets: 75 and 77 grain bullets don't hit the target at 100 yards. At 200 yards, the bullets key hole.

I think that I will treat this barrel so that it shoots for thousands and thousands of rounds.

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mr_wilson  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 10:42:20 AM
Is this a CR6724 rifle were talkin about here?

eta - with the Elite 24" stainless steel barrel?

seen here: www.colt.com/law/car.asp

mike
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 10:44:03 AM
Sometimes you can get much better performance then one expects from a barrel. I have an Eagle Arms AR-10T upper that shoots under 0.5-MOA so I get just under 1-inch groups at 200-yards. Not bad at all for a "cheap" upper but like you I treat her better now that I see she can work so well then I do with lesser barrels.

Congrats on the good fortune!
AtlantaFireman  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 10:47:56 AM

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
Is this a CR6724 rifle were talkin about here?

eta - with the Elite 24" stainless steel barrel?

seen here: www.colt.com/law/car.asp

mike


I don't know if it is the CR6724. Box is long gone, along with my memory. It does have a 24" stainless barrel.

Receiver is marked:
"CAR-A3
HBAR Elite
Cal. 223
Ser. BK 0063XX"

Barrel is marked:
"M/P 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR ELITE"

This is what it looks like:
www.colt.com/law/car.asp
mr_wilson  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 11:01:15 AM
Sounds like it is and if so no wonder you are not satisfied with it's performance.

If you reload see the 77grn SMK load below; which is all we shoot in these rifles out to 1000 yards and one which will definately cut the sizes of your 300 yard groups above. If you don't reload give the BH 77s a shot although given the slower 1/9 twist of this barrel I need to point out that MV is critical in getting them to perform outta this excellent Elite barreled Colt.

I know this rifle and what it likes so sorry to point out that the 77 comments you have above are in error, this rifle loves the 77s.....

Here's what you should be feeding this rifle:

Sierra 77grn. MatchKing
24.0 grns. Accurate 2460, (Hot Load), DO NOT PUSH
loaded into either "once fired" (or new) Remington Brass
Remington 7.5 small rifle benchrest primers
These are loaded mag length - 2.260" + or –

In good air (very lite wind) my CR6724 will hold 1/2 MOA (10 shot groups) out to 800 yards. This is the most accurate load available for this rifle and I have I seen 6 different CR6724s all that shoot knots with this particular load, so I know yours will love it.


Come-ups for 24" Colt Accurized Rifle (6724) w/ Leupold Vari-X III, 4.5x14 w/ turrets and Mil-Dots
100- zero
200-1 1/2 min
300-3 3/4 min
350-4 min
400-5 1/2 min
450-7 1/2 min
500-9 1/4 min
550-11 1/2 min
600-12 3/4 min
700-17 3/4 min
800-23 min
900- no target
1000-35 1/2 min (34-36 depending on humidity)

This may be of some use to ya.

Mike

ps - a better scope would not hurt either as you'll need a true tactical scope to get out the K line and back with precision......

eta - if you don't reload contact me via e-mail and I'll see if I can figure out how to get a box of my loads to ya to try
AtlantaFireman  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 11:40:25 AM
That is a hot load according to QuickLoad: see below. I've noted QuickLoad's calculations to be very close to actual performance with IMR 4895, 4064, and 4227: VV N530, 130, 133, and 135, along with BullsEye and WW 231. QL does not have military powder, but I can get close enough starting loads using close civilian powders (H335 and BL-C2) I have not used it for AA powder. I may give 2460 a try to see what I get. Based on the figures below, Greenhill Formula puts twist rate at 1:7.6, but that is only a model: often life is different. I'm glad that your rifle shoots well. I've tried BH 77 grain, and it keyholes at 200. I tried five AMU 80 grain rounds: all keyholed at 200, and four of them blew the primers out...one had an elongated primer pocket. Chamber is 1 gauge short of a NO-GO gauge; so its big. Before I got the bore eletro-polished, the rifling was so rough that it tore my patches. I went through TWO bad Elites. This is not to talk bad about Colt: lemons happen. The first one came with a trigger that was triangular due to what appeared to be grinding. Colt replaced it with my current rifle: different serial number, delivered and left at my doorstep...NO FFL. Anyway, the barrel was able to be saved, and the throat is good (limited machining marks, fairly smooth). I'd like to have a better scope (NightForce or U.S. Optics), but funds limit such. I rarely shoot past 300 yards. I bought it for a prairie dog hunt that never occurred; so, it is limited to steel plates on lazy days.

mr_wilson  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 12:33:35 PM

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
That is a hot load according to QuickLoad


I think I mentioned that, but as I have seen 6724s w/ upwards of 14k of these rounds thru them I have to say I trust the old gunsmith that developed the load more so than the software program ya got there. These loads were developed specifically by him to shoot in this model Colt rifle.

Sorry you have had problems with yours, but none of the ones I have seen and shot ever needed the work you have had performed on yours in order to shoot.

We simply dropped a Jewell 2 stage in it, mounted a quality tactical Leupold and fed it the load above.

(Note: we did start out w/ the moly'd 77s in the beginning, but not too long after we dropped the molys in favor of the naked 77s as the moly didn't produce anything but messy cleaning and provided no accuracy benefits in the long run)

mike

eta- please don't try this load in anything but Remington brass or using any components not listed above and if used because all rifles are different please start low and work up to it

Yes the primers are fairly flat, yes on hot Texas summer days I have popped a primer or two (the Accurate powder is temp sensitive) and yes everytime we open a new 8# lot we work back up to the load.


noticed something else on your chart it shows a MV in excess of 2900 fps....., IIRC I chrony'd ours at 15 feet from the muzzle at around 2850fps (maybe a difference in where the software is measuring the MV from)
M-60  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 12:57:16 PM
I've always been very happy with the accuracy of my Colt Match H-bar w/ 4x ACOG carry handle mounted.

I know its only three shots, but that is what I was shooting that day.



I was pleased with the preformance of the factory ammo too.

Mark.

PirateEC  [Member]
5/30/2007 1:24:49 PM
I like the fuck up that landed dead center
AtlantaFireman  [Team Member]
5/30/2007 2:04:55 PM

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
I trust the old gunsmith that developed the load more so than the software program ya got there. These loads were developed specifically by him to shoot in this model Colt rifle.

We simply dropped a Jewell 2 stage in it.

(Note: we did start out w/ the moly'd 77s in the beginning, but not too long after we dropped the molys in favor of the naked 77s as the moly didn't produce anything but messy cleaning and provided no accuracy benefits in the long run)

noticed something else on your chart it shows a MV in excess of 2900 fps


QuickLoad, as best as I can tell, uses approximations for its calculations. It works OK with IMR, VV, and WW powders listed above. "OK" being that QL has not given over-pressured rounds. QL is useful in combining different bullets and powders for comparison more than anything. I've found that MV can be off by a few hundred FPS: calculated versus actual using Ohler 35 with 4' rod at 15'. With my huge chamber, I may try compressed loads of VV 130 or 530. I just may stumble on a better load. For me, the jury is still out on the moly. I've noted that in my better barrels (M1A Maramont, DCM, and Barnett Douglas), copper fouling is reduced, but I have seen no accuracy gain, or increased throat life. In my treated AR barrels (Douglas premium), I see no benefit from moly. I sold the Colt match trigger it came with. I tuned RRA 2-stage trigger to a 3# release: no worries so far.

Texas DPS?
JeepDriver  [Member]
5/30/2007 5:35:24 PM
I shouldn't have clicked on this thread, I didn't know there were programs like that. I'm going to have to start reloading soon.

But I'm worried, I think I would turn into one of those people who shoots to reload
AtlantaFireman  [Team Member]
8/15/2007 9:06:24 AM
I am still waiting on five barrels from CLE (11 weeks now) to see if accuracy is decreased over 300 yards after treatment...no sense in treating one barrel when I can treat several.
gorvibub  [Member]
8/15/2007 5:41:47 PM
my 6724 shoots very tight groups with any bullet from 40 to 69 grains. i have not tried any bullets over 69 grains but will soon to see how it does. every Colt 6724 i have seen shoots incredibly tight groups strait out of the box. mine has had no upgrades at all and will shoot honest 1/4 inch groups when i do my part.

one of my favorite things to do with this rifle is shoot the caps off of small water bottles at 100 yards without spilling a drop of water or knocking them over. it is very rare to find a rifle at any price that will consistently out shoot my 6724.
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