AR15.Com Archives
 Why are most Colt AR uppers and lowers color mismatched??
dp223  [Member]
3/29/2003 7:50:57 AM
I have to say up front that I am a picky bastard. I want to know why most Colt and other makes have there upper and lowers color mismatched. For example, Colt pre 89 ARs namely the sporter II, Govt model, and HBAR have mismatched grey parkerized color finish. Most I have seen are that way. The post 90 Sporters pre 94 have a better color scheme and the post 94 match targets are black. Why do most people accept the color mismatch and would not want the same finish on their car or truck?
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KODoc  [Team Member]
3/29/2003 8:11:59 AM
Color mismatches occur when a manufacturer utilizes different subcontractors for upper and lower components. For example, upper receivers for Colt, Bushmaster, and RRA have recently been originating from the same forge (keyhole stamped upper) and are quite black. Different runs from the same manufacturer can also result in color variations. It is unlikely that the time and expense to visually match components prior to assembly would be expended. Until recently BM was notorious for purple receivers, but they did match nicely! The most consistent black upper and lower matching receivers appear to be coming from RRA.
1saxman  [Member]
3/29/2003 8:41:30 AM
I got really lucky on the last one I built - the colors matched, and the upper-to-lower fit was tight. Doesn't usually work out that way. The color mismatch and receiver fit on new guns bothers me, too, and is an example of shoddy craftsmanship. Pride in your product and attention to details like this will ultimately separate the survivors from the has-beens.
shamayim  [Member]
3/29/2003 9:25:56 AM
[quote]Originally Posted By KODoc: Color mismatches occur when a manufacturer utilizes different subcontractors for upper and lower components. For example, upper receivers for Colt, Bushmaster, and RRA have recently been originating from the same forge (keyhole stamped upper) and are quite black. Different runs from the same manufacturer can also result in color variations. It is unlikely that the time and expense to visually match components prior to assembly would be expended. Until recently BM was notorious for purple receivers, but they did match nicely! The most consistent black upper and lower matching receivers appear to be coming from RRA.[/quote] Huh? Last I heard, Colt and all the other manufactures did their own anodizing. Of course, maybe I heard wrong. As to color mismatch, My Colt SP1 had a perfect color match on upper/lower with theoriginal smooth side upper. Put a 15 year later forward assist upper on oit a few months ago---still a perfect color match. Rock River lower bought at local gunshow. Rock River upper bought from Pete in NH nearly a year later--per fect color match. Whatever are you talking about???
KODoc  [Team Member]
3/29/2003 9:42:41 AM
You've given 2 anecdotal and statistically insignificant examples of color matched components. Are you denying the existence of same manufacturer color variation?
shamayim  [Member]
3/29/2003 10:16:28 AM
[quote]Originally Posted By KODoc: You've given 2 anecdotal and statistically insignificant examples of color matched components. Are you denying the existence of same manufacturer color variation?[/quote] Well,sport, that's two more than you've given [:D]. All you've done is thrown out a totally unsubstantiated claim. Now Colt has changed the color of their anodizing in recent years. It's now significantly darker than it used to be. As I recall, the changeover occured about 10 years ago, tho I may be a year or two off. Are there color mismatched Colts out there. I'm sure there are; just as I'm sure that there are color mismatched "every brand under the sun" pieces out there. However, your original post implied that most Colts these days were color mismatched, and I ain't buying that. May I suggest that, if you don't like Colt's products you file a complaint. After all, as a Connecticut taxpayer, you're a part owner[:D]
KODoc  [Team Member]
3/29/2003 10:30:00 AM
[quote]Originally posted by shamayin: Well,sport, that's two more than you've given . All you've done is thrown out a totally unsubstantiated claim. Now Colt has changed the color of their anodizing in recent years. It's now significantly darker than it used to be. As I recall, the changeover occured about 10 years ago, tho I may be a year or two off. Are there color mismatched Colts out there. I'm sure there are; just as I'm sure that there are color mismatched "every brand under the sun" pieces out there. However, your original post implied that most Colts these days were color mismatched, and I ain't buying that. May I suggest that, if you don't like Colt's products you file a complaint. After all, as a Connecticut taxpayer, you're a part owner [/quote] May I suggest you re-read my post? At no time did I imply anything. What I had to say, I stated. The thread originator made mention of his observation of Colt color mismatches, not I. Where did you, from my post, get the impression I don't like Colt products? I own a Colt and, quite frankly, despite the deification of Bushmaster products on this forum, I consider Colt to be the standard by which all ARs are judged [:D]
shamayim  [Member]
3/29/2003 10:42:43 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By KODoc: [quote]Originally posted by shamayin: Well,sport, that's two more than you've given . All you've done is thrown out a totally unsubstantiated claim. Now Colt has changed the color of their anodizing in recent years. It's now significantly darker than it used to be. As I recall, the changeover occured about 10 years ago, tho I may be a year or two off. Are there color mismatched Colts out there. I'm sure there are; just as I'm sure that there are color mismatched "every brand under the sun" pieces out there. However, your original post implied that most Colts these days were color mismatched, and I ain't buying that. May I suggest that, if you don't like Colt's products you file a complaint. After all, as a Connecticut taxpayer, you're a part owner [/quote] May I suggest you re-read my post? At no time did I imply anything. What I had to say, I stated. The thread originator made mention of his observation of Colt color mismatches, not I. Where did you, from my post, get the impression I don't like Colt products? I own a Colt and, quite frankly, despite the deification of Bushmaster products on this forum, I consider Colt to be the standard by which all ARs are judged [:D][/quote] My apologies. Obviously, you're right. You didn't originate the thread. On the other hand, you also didn't bother to castigate the thread's original poster for his "Why are Most Colt AR Uppers and Lowers Color Mismatched " header either, when he provided no examples, and clearly doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Wasn't until I posted my "Two Sample" message that you felt the need to get into your small sample shit. Having been born and raised 15 miles from the Connecticut state line, I always found residents of the state to be on the dork side. I see things haven't changed. [;D]
KODoc  [Team Member]
3/30/2003 1:16:51 PM
[quote] Originally posted by shamayim: My apologies. Obviously, you're right. You didn't originate the thread. On the other hand, you also didn't bother to castigate the thread's original poster for his "Why are Most Colt AR Uppers and Lowers Color Mismatched " header either, when he provided no examples, and clearly doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Wasn't until I posted my "Two Sample" message that you felt the need to get into your small sample shit. Having been born and raised 15 miles from the Connecticut state line, I always found residents of the state to be on the dork side. I see things haven't changed.[/quote] You made yourself look like a fool with your initial poorly considered reply. You're looking like a total ass again. I don't get my jollies out of castigating people for their views, even whining douchebags like you. And before you get all red-faced and hypertensive and shoot me off an IM, my IMs don't work, nor do I need to be further amused by your pathetic attempts at patching together a cohesive, intelligible statement.
TitaniumT  [Team Member]
3/30/2003 4:17:08 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By shamayim: Having been born and raised 15 miles from the Connecticut state line, I always found residents of the state to be on the dork side. I see things haven't changed. [;D][/quote] Please define dork for me shamayim so I can accurately respond to your attempted insult directed towards the residents of my state. *smiles* The following is a concise review of the anodizing process that you may find interesting. I did. [b][i]A clarification on anodizing by Brad Fuller:[/b] There are two types of anodizing, Chromic Anodize (MIL-A-8625E, Type 1 & 1B, Class 1 & 2) and Hard Anodize (MIL-A-8625E, Type III, Class 1 & 2). Chromic anodize is not the same as the Hard Coat anodize. The key as to what finish that is applied to aluminum AR15/M16 type receivers is the TYPE (I, IB, or III). A manufacturer may state that it meets MIL-A-8625E, but if no type is specified you don't know what you're getting. It must be type III for Hard Anodize to meet the spec for the M16. Types I & IB, class 2 can be dyed to the black or dark grey; the dye can rub off. Type III, class 2 can be dyed and is specified on the contract drawings. Hard anodizing color will vary from light tan to black depending on alloy (this should be 7075 T-6 for AR15/M16 uppers and lowers) and can be dyed in darker colors depending on the thickness of the anodizing. Hard anodize coating penetrates the base metal as much as it builds up on the surface. This provides a VERY hard coating. If a thickness is unspecified on the contract drawings then the thickness shall be nominally 0.002" thick. The term THICKNESS includes both the buildup and the penetration. The upper receiver should then be coated on the interior with Solid Film Lubricant (MIL-L-8937D). I know Colt and Bushmaster apply this film and are HARD Anodized. Parts that have a purplish tone to them probably are not Hard Anodized. I think that DPMS parts are chromic anodized then painted. Older SGW parts were bead blasted and then chromic anodized. Phosphate coatings are applied to medium and low alloy Steels. There are two types, M & Z, with class 1 thru 4, where M=Manganese and Z=Zinc. These are grey to black in color. Type M is more resistant than type Z to alkaline environments. Type M is used on AR15/M16 steel parts. The thickness of Phosphate coatings ranges between 0.00002"-0.00004". For comparative purposes on the thicknesses, a human hair averages 0.015 thick. Hope this provides everyone with some good information. --Brad Fuller[/i]
Troy  [Site Staff]
3/30/2003 5:58:33 PM
Black is one of the most difficult colors to achieve consistantly when anodizing aluminum. In order for the dye to work correctly, everything has to be just right. Slight variations in the aluminum alloy, heat of the tank, dye type or concentration, exposure length, and so on can all affect the appearance of the final product. Often, the black color will appear to be either a dark gray or purple. Note that this is only a cosmetic problem and does not impact or reflect on the protection given by the anodizing layer. -Troy
shamayim  [Member]
3/31/2003 9:03:47 AM
Dork? A dork is someone who publishes a complete description of the various kinds of anodising in response to a thread commenting on color variations, and who won't understand how innappropriate it was to do so---when it gets commented on[:D] For appropriate type response, see Troy's note directly below yours. Hey, but don't feel bad. I was a dork too, when I lived in Massachusetts. Didn't get over it til I'd been in Georgia for four or five years. There must be something in the air up there in southern New England [:D]
TitaniumT  [Team Member]
3/31/2003 9:57:28 AM
[quote]Originally Posted By shamayim: Dork? A dork is someone who publishes a complete description of the various kinds of anodising in response to a thread commenting on color variations, and who won't understand how innappropriate it was to do so---when it gets commented on[:D] For appropriate type response, see Troy's note directly below yours. Hey, but don't feel bad. I was a dork too, when I lived in Massachusetts. Didn't get over it til I'd been in Georgia for four or five years. There must be something in the air up there in southern New England [:D][/quote] Thank you for informing me that posting technical information is inappropriate. [rolleyes] It is against my nature to make disparaging remarks about fellow forum members, even ones as asinine as you. I will, however, celebrate your departure from New England (on a rail?), the academic capital of America, and subsequent increase in the IQ aggregate for the area. It is no wonder you find Georgia more suitable. [:D] While it has clearly overpowered your seven sputtering synapses, I asked for the definition of "dork" not an example. However your presence illustrates the term far more than any combination of words could. Your being provides one anecdotal and statistically (as well as otherwise) insignificant example of same. [url]www.webstersfory'all.com[/url] - For y'all to look up them thar polysyllabic words. [:D] TT [coffee]
camdon53  [Member]
3/31/2003 10:28:45 AM
Can't we all just get along?
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