Future .22 BHOA Mags?

The current BHOA mags are very well built and very sturdy. They also feed very well. My only concern with them is how hard they are to load, and how much damage the lips take using the CMMG loader.

I saw mention a while back that CMMG might be coming out with a steel lipped mag. While looking for info on it I came across these from Black Dog LLC.
http://blackdogmachinellc.net/3rd-generation––-metal-feed-lip-magazine-for-ar15-22-conversions.aspx



Seem to solve both problems. It has a thumb follower and steel lips.

CMMG have anything like this in the works?

http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=536176

These offer a number of advantages over BDMs latest magazine. They are much much easier to load than our last. We didn't opt to go with the pull down tabs. We felt it would allow too much dirt and debris into mag.

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Dang didn't look hard enough.

Thanks!

W O W ! ! !

CMMG, I asked this in the rimfire section, but do you have any plans for 15 round versions?

None at this time.

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Is there a time table for this magazine's release? Cant wait to get my hands on this. Will make shooting with kids & introducing people to AR's easier as well as cheaper to shoot & train with. Thanks.

Can't wait for Testing on these to Begin...
Dave S

G

Me too! I am hoping to have something to sent to you as early as this week. The hold up is the spring. We are doing several configurations to get the best function.

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Always better to try several and catch any problems early...


CMMG: Video Idea: Empty casing caught up in a Standard Charging Handle.
The proper way to release and drop the spent case. I saw a guy at the
range fiddling with his rifle almost to the point of having it in the wrong
direction... I showed him to remove the magazine, pull the bolt back,
insert a finger to hold the bolt and then push the charging handle forward.
He was amazed at how simple a seemingly difficult problem was.. I also
told him to pick up a CMMG Charging Handle for use with a conversion
and end the problem...

Looking very forward to testing these new mags.
The charging handle works great to keep empties from hanging in the top.
However, I've never had that problem with a CMMG kit.
Dave N

Better Extractors......

Dave S

Metal feed lips seem the way to go. God only knows we burn a lot of ammo in those .22 rifles! I have flat worn out my share of those plastic lipped magazines. As for the opening in the mag, I agree with CMMG John, it looks nice but it certainly does allow foreign materials into the interior of the magazine. Oh, something they learned from that French Chauchat machine gun they used back in "The Great War" (WW 1 to you kids) Its been said that two-thirds of its problems were caused by the open sided magazine. Not that your .22 AR is going into combat, just to say that experience has shown opened sided mags to not be the most desirable things for dependability.

I want some metal lipped mags......the final solution.

I sent samples out for the Dave's, I will be getting one of the new ones out to you(forever4) tomorrow. Just missed UPS. Doh! These run like nobody's business :-)



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Mine should be here today. The suspense is killing me.
The standard feed lips have gotten us this far.. The metal
feed lips are going to put us over the top. Especially when
using the BHOA....


Dave S


PS: This Cool Stuff just came in about 9:30 AM...

I hope to have one here Thursday afternoon. Depending on what time it arrives it is off to the range to see how it works.

The CMMG uppers and conversions work so well, now its down to the last part....the magazine. This is exciting stuff. It wasn't so long ago that the idea of a quality .22 dedicated AR upper at a down to earth price was a pipe dream. The good folks at CMMG took the challenge seriously and have moved us all ahead to where we are today.

I wonder if the average person can appreciate just how much work it is to design, produce, test, and perfect a system like this? CMMG deserves a lot of credit for what they have done in this field. Don't know how they do it, but they just keep raising the bar!

The mags are very cool and very well made. Heavy duty is the word that comes to mind. And very smooth movement of the follower.
I have to say, looking at pictures do not allow you to appreciate these. Having one in hand makes a big difference.
Dave N

All of the parts that were shipped to me were absolutely 1st Class.
The magazine is Awesome just like I pictured from the thread that
CMMG made showing them... The plastic used for the outer shell
almost fooled me into thinking it was also metal, like the feed lips.
Having the inner core clear and allowing sight of the rounds loaded
makes a perfect set up.. I Love it...It's a new "Tinker Toy", Roll Your
Own Size for Big Boys...
John, if yours was shipped like mine, it's out for early delivery now...
This is as exciting as the first Magpul Mags for 5.56....

The mag is here and it looks good. Pictures do not do it justice, you have to pick it and hold it to fully appreciate it. Something about the weight and feel of it is just right. When I first looked at the body and the feed lips they looked liked the same material. Odd I thought....but then I got my magnet out and touched it to the feed lip area. Folks, magnets do not stick to plastic! They did a great job in the coloration. The top metal feed lips area and the mag body blend right together and look like one piece. Besides the durable metal lips there is the internal opening (channel) for the follower. I know some folks had occasional issues with the follower binding on older mags. (BTW this can happen with any steel or plastic magazine that gets dirty or bent.) Well on this new design the internal section where the follower slides is one piece and its so smooth on the interior. This design should really help cure any binding issues that can come from other designs that had seams or halves that didn't fit just perfect or get warped from uneven torque on the assembly screws. OH, and its smoked color so I can look inside and see how many rounds are in there.

The concept is just too cool. You can take the magazine apart and change sizes. From what I understand there will be different springs. Not certain on this but right now I have "easy load" spring in mine. I understand there will be heavier springs for the BHOA. I am OK with the light spring. The BHOA is a very nice accessory but being this easy to load is nice also. I hope in the final design we get a choice on this.

Its like an erector set, you have basic building blocks and you decide how you want them to go together. I have to give these guys credit, they do see things differently than the average guy. Who would have thought of such a concept? This is looking up!

In the morning this thing goes to Knob Creek range. I will take a CMMG dedicated .22 upper and my CMMG 14.5 inch 1-7 5.56 AR with a conversion and see how it runs in each of them. Been wanting to see how that 1-7 would shoot with a conversion anyway. People keep asking about those. As for the mag, from the way it looks I am betting that its going to be just great.

Would be nice to hear an after testing report from you guys. Can't wait till they get this out to market. CMMG, any ball park figures on the price? Thanks a bunch.

I should have a full test result here tomorrow evening.

A basic mag will come unassembled and include a bhoa spring and an easy load spring. Shooters can decide which is best for their needs. Msrp $29.95

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These mags are the shiz

Back from the range with the new mag. It was "boring". I kept loading it up and pulling the trigger and the rifles just kept going "Bang––-Bang". Nothing....just bang after bang. No mis-feeds, no jambs, nothing going wrong.

When it comes to magazines.....boring is GOOD. It means every thing is working great. I used it with two different rifles, one a dedicated CMMG .22 AR upper, the second rifle was my CMMG 1-7 twist 14.5" 5.56 upper with a CMMG conversion. The mag performed equally as perfect with both firearms. I used different brands of ammo in each and none gave me a moment of trouble. I will have a full write up about the mag tonight hopefully with pictures of some key parts and some observations on it. Oh, and I also will be showing how a 1-7 shoots .22 with a conversion. It might surprise some people.

Its always nice to take a brand new product and have it function 100% perfectly on the first trip out.

Forever4, nice meeting you at KCR and shooting with you. I was able to get information from Forever4 about the magazine, they look great and from shooting beside him, they seem to function great. Can't wait to get my hands on some of them.

Sorry double post from above.

Nice meeting you. You guys had some good looking AR's there.
Nice day at the range...better than that terrible weather we had Wednesday!

I put the new CMMG 20" Production Barrel together with my CMMG Upper last night.
If anyone remembers, I had received a pre production barrel with a Crown problem.
I ended up crowning the barrel in my shop. CMMG wanted me shooting a production
barrel so it was sent to me a day or 2 ago. I did change the muzzle device from the
standard A1 and used a rail from an M1A to hold the handguard cap in place. I
liked the way it looked.. I did nothing that will affect accuracy one way or the other
from what will be delivered to your door.

I had to do some shopping for a few parts of another build so, I took this rifle along
just in case we passed a range.. Of course we did. My truck never lets me down..

I didn't have a lot of time and I was on an hourly clock. So. I fired the first target in
the order marked. Center just to see where it was hitting and then bottom left, bottom
right while tweaking the scope. Upper left and upper right some more tweaks. The
Shoot-n-See Target is the remainder of 126 rounds not used on the first target to
make a total of 150. I adjusted slightly to the right while firing on this last target...

The magazine fits identical to how a Magpul fits in my magwell... I didn't run the Bolt
Hold Open Assy, No tough springs available quite yet. The magazine was flawless. it
even dropped on the floor one time, It bounced.... No damage from a 2-1/2 to 3 foot fall
onto concrete...Great Barrel and Great Magazine.. I'll do a range report with some better
ammo soon as I get a chance... Today was Winchester 555's.....

I hope Black Dog Machine's magazine works out as well. Maybe Kevin will send us some
for testing, Side by Side. Dave N, John and I report it like it is. We aren't here to take sides,


Edit, Added: At 25 Yards..

Dave, nice shooting! Seems they got the barrel right. Good to see. Now, back to the magazine:

Last night I disassembled the new magazine to study it. Its well thought out. You can tell these guys had their thinking caps on and were planning ahead. As others have written the real key to this magazine is its adaptability. Its made so you can adapt it to what your needs are. There are longer and shorter housings. There are different springs. You can use the light weight "easy load" spring and its a snap to load due to the light weight of the spring. Or, if you want to use the BHOA in your rifle you install the heavier spring and have that feature. Yes, it will be a bit stiffer to load then, but using a loading tool I don't find this to be an issue on my current CMMG BHOA style magazines.

After looking over all the parts and feeling comfortable with the mag and what is new and different on it I reassembled it. I did shoot the inside of the feed lips with a little Remington Dry Lube. It seemed to help. Not that there was any problem but the metal feed lips have a coating and when new its surface is just not as smooth as a well broken in part. The Dry Lube made it slide just a bit better. A few hundred rounds through it will make it slide really well! All machines do better broken in.

Beautiful day out after those five tornadoes and nearly four inches of rain we had on Wednesday night/Thursday morning.Took the two rifles to the range for a shoot out. Time for this thing to earn its keep.

I took three magazine: 1) the new CMMG 2) The current grey CMMG with the BHOA spring and follower, and 3) the standard Black Dog mag we have been using for
some time.

Two rifles: 1) CMMG dedicated upper with the stainless steel bolt upgrade and 2) My 14.5" 1-7 twist CMMG 5.56 upper with a CMMG .22 conversion kit in it.

I used each magazine in each set-up trying various common ammo's. CCI Standard Velocity, Federal Bulk, American Eagle, and Federal Auto Match. I first ran the Federal Bulk through both rifles to break in the mag and make sure everything was functioning correctly. My goal was quite simple, put this magazine through its paces with the rifles and ammo Joe Average will be using with it.

All the ammo worked with all the rifles. The magazine was flawless in either gun with any ammo. I could not have been happier. It was anti-climatic in a way. You always expect some issue with a new part but this thing just ran like crazy. I shot it slow, I did mag dumps as fast as I could pull the trigger, nothing bother it.

Loading the magazine feels a bit different. If one studies the inside of the feed lips you can see that there are some interesting curves in there. I could write a lot about just that but a picture is in order. I didn't have time tonight to take it all apart and work on a interior photo but did get a picture of the top which will explain some things about this mag.

Take a look: On the left with the red follower is the classic Black Dog magazine everyone knows. On the right with the gray follower is the new CMMG.



If you look at the followers you will soon notice that the new CMMG has a longer follower. Also, it has a little hump in the back.The follower protrudes further to the rear. These two features are for the BHOA function. On the current CMMG magazine they designed a special follower to make this work within the confines of the old design magazine. Due to the size of the opening they had to make a sliding piece with a spring that fit into the follower that would push back to work the BHOA after the last round was used. This made the magazine more complex and made it a bit harder to load on the first round. With the new design magazine they started with a clean piece of paper and designed this feature into the follower and the feed area of the mag. This makes the follower simpler, more trouble free, and makes it easier to load the first round. Also, look at the feed lips. Notice that with the new design follower the lips can be stronger and straighter to work better and last longer. Internally they have these nice curves in them that position the round at just the right angle to load properly. I think this works with the new follower shape to make this thing more reliable in feeding. OH, then you have the choice of two different spring weights so you can decide how you want the magazine to work. Oh, and not to forget you can adapt its capacity to your needs.

I like this mag. Its got a lot of flexibility built into it. It performs perfectly and its made to last and last and that is important to those of us that shoot a lot of .22. Oh, and it looks cool!

Enough already! When can we start ordering these things? My credit card & my trigger finger are both itching.

I'm considering free floating my 20" to see what I can get out of it.
Dave N

Cool Dave N. I think the barrels are very capable. It's up to us to prove it now...
We have some great magazines to go with it too....

Looks like a superior product. So, when can we expect to be able to order them so see them at our retail stores? Timeline? Thanks CMMG.

You can pre-order them on the CMMG site now. Says to expect shipemnt next month (August). I have a few on order; they can't come soon enough.

From thier site: http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/25-Round-22-Evolution-Long-Skin-Mag-1752

Says: "AVAILABLE FOR PRE-ORDER - Expected to ship in August "

Available for pre order on the web site. August looks to be the release date.
Dave N

I just ordered 4 plus the India kit.

Has anyone received their magazines yet? Would be good to know where CMMG is at on filling these orders now that it is August. Thanks.

what was that about itchytriggerfingers?


Yeah i want an update on these mags too.

I ordered in July but haven't heard anything yet.
But to be fair - it's still early August.....

Anyone's order for the mags filled yet? Let us know.

Don't look for them until the first of September.

Send mine first please!!!!!

I'm still waiting on one myself. My proto type had issues. Still haven't been able to run a good one.
Dave N

Just checked CMMG website & they updated the delivery date to "late September".

Any word yet on these mags? Has anyone received their order yet? CMMG, any update on this please. Thanks.

I see there is a stronger spring. I have been going a few rounds with emails to CMMG about the bolt not holding open on the last round and they have suggested cutting coils or weaking the bolt catch spring, but no mention of the magazine spring being to weak.
My original emai:
"Been having a issue with the new 10rd. modular magazines with short skin and have tried them out with a new Gen 2 DM 22-BHOA and the bolt will not stay open on a empty magazine. I have adjusted the BHOA as much as I can without binding the bolt. I have this installed on a new CMMG M4 LE .22 LR Evolution 16 inch Upper w/F Marked FSB.

The magazines came with only one spring each and that was in the magazines. Is it possible that the spring in the magazine is two weak? Is there another BHOA stronger spring? It is very easy to load both magazines without the loader."

Does anyone know of a solution besides cutting coils or weaking the bolt catch spring, which is not a option?
Thanks

I have the same issue! :)

CMMG told me that they had not yet released the stronger mag spring and that when they did it would likely fix the issue.

Sorry guys. I wish I had the answer.
Dave N

Slowly but surely plodding along. I spent the entire day testing our mag spring with total success on the 25 and 35 round magazine. Everything worked as needed. the only speed bump encountered is the 35 round mag was reduced to 34. Doh! With the easy load spring i think we still get a full 35. i do intend to send out a few of the higher cap mags this week for additional testing. that said, if i have anther good day of testing, we will start spring production next week and get this project rolling.

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Does this mean the 10 round magazine springs shipped with the Gen2 magazines will not work with the BHOA untill a stronger spring is tested that will?

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