Archived Posts » 60,546,157
Scientology?
11/3/2002 9:49:14 PM
I've heard rumors that Front Sight is associated with the Church of Scientology. Is this true? I've considered attending a course there but not if they're part of the ORG.
11/3/2002 11:34:38 PM
Not that I've heard of, but then I'm usually blissfully ignorant of damn near everything.
FOTBR
FOTBR
11/4/2002 3:59:05 PM
Careful, Glocktalk is being strong armed right now (see glocktalk.gunserver.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=34)
Seems the 1st amendment is as questionable as the second.
Seems the 1st amendment is as questionable as the second.
11/4/2002 4:19:45 PM
11/5/2002 12:59:47 AM
11/5/2002 9:03:05 PM
www.dianahsieh.com/scientology This woman claims that Frontsight sued her for raising questions regarding scientology's involvement with Frontsight. She gives a link to the court website which does indicate that some kind of lawsuit was filed against her by Frontsight.
11/6/2002 12:08:52 AM
Originally Posted By Aimless: www.dianahsieh.com/scientology This woman claims that Frontsight sued her for raising questions regarding scientology's involvement with Frontsight. She gives a link to the court website which does indicate that some kind of lawsuit was filed against her by Frontsight. |
Check it out. She states that on Oct 29 her and her husband were headed back to that place in Nevada for another four-day course! She must be a masochist.
If you check the court website, that place in Nevada filed suit against her on the very same day !
I wonder how that four day course went? A little chilly this time of year?
11/6/2002 12:32:01 AM
I get the impression that she is one of the people that paid for some kind of long term membership at Frontsight; not a club I would want to join if you get a free summons and complaint with your lapel pin 
11/6/2002 1:26:21 AM
FrontSight, per se, may not be associated with Scientology, but Piazza has said he is/was involved with them.
The lawsuit is very troublesome.
The lawsuit is very troublesome.
11/15/2002 4:54:35 PM
11/16/2002 4:30:56 PM
Unfuckingbelievable!
11/21/2002 5:20:06 PM
Give the man a break.
Dean makes wild accusations and gets sued. Where's the problem with that?
Diana claims that Dr. Piazza associates with a criminal organization, etc. It appears as if she was going around trying to scare off all of Front Sights business. And she gets sued, too. Surprise.
Front Sight is a top-notch organization, and the same Diana says so herself. Front Sight is not some kind of secret society for Scientologists or Scientology recruiting ground.
Innocent_bystander, I encourage you to go take a course and see for yourself.
Dean makes wild accusations and gets sued. Where's the problem with that?
Diana claims that Dr. Piazza associates with a criminal organization, etc. It appears as if she was going around trying to scare off all of Front Sights business. And she gets sued, too. Surprise.
Front Sight is a top-notch organization, and the same Diana says so herself. Front Sight is not some kind of secret society for Scientologists or Scientology recruiting ground.
Innocent_bystander, I encourage you to go take a course and see for yourself.
11/21/2002 6:36:48 PM
Originally Posted By Maddog50: Give the man a break. Dean makes wild accusations and gets sued. Where's the problem with that? Diana claims that Dr. Piazza associates with a criminal organization, etc. It appears as if she was going around trying to scare off all of Front Sights business. And she gets sued, too. Surprise. Front Sight is a top-notch organization, and the same Diana says so herself. Front Sight is not some kind of secret society for Scientologists or Scientology recruiting ground. Innocent_bystander, I encourage you to go take a course and see for yourself. |
You seem to take these flinging around of lawsuits as being acceptable and business as usual. I don't think much of a business that sues anyone that criticizes it and would not choose to associate with an organization that conducts itself in such a manner.
Eric, from Glocktalk, puts a lot of time and effort into that website and has been suffering from health problems. I don't think much of anyone who threatens to sue him over what is posted on his website by others (as far as I know there is no liability for the website provider, but threatening to sue people, even if it is horseshit is a way to shut them up).
I wouldn't go to Frontsight based on what I have seen of them. I suspect after Frontsight's behavior toward Ms. Sheih, Glocktalk and The Firing Line that many shooters now feel the same. It certainly seems to have been a strange tact to take from a PR standpoint.
If it were me I'd discontinue the lawsuit against Ms. Sheih, issue Eric an apology and learn from my mistakes.
11/21/2002 8:15:01 PM
Agreed, Aimless. A harsh and heavy hand from "Ignatius Piazza, a 41-year-old chiropractor from Santa Cruz County, California"*
Maddog50- you must work there, huh!
* www.acfnewsource.org/democracy/home_on_range.html
Maddog50- you must work there, huh!
* www.acfnewsource.org/democracy/home_on_range.html
11/21/2002 9:33:45 PM
Maddog50 does work there. DVD and I met him there.
Nonetheless, he is entitled to his opinions as are you.
Dean G. has retracted any statements made and has claimed to not be the author of one bit that was particularly inflammatory.
Diana Hsieh's commentary, if you read it carefully, was originally designed to discredit Dean's supposed comments. After researching more and conversing with Piazza about it, she has since changed her mind. Her stance on Scientology hasn't changed, merely her view of Piazza's involvement with them.
The legal threats against GlockTalk are more troublesome to me. In order to prevent the free exchange of ideas he's willing to alienate a fair chunk of potential students. So far TFL hasn't been threatened, but Piazza apparently asked for address of one of the admins over there for the express purpose of mailing legal notices to them.
I have no complaints about the staff or the training. The strong arm legal tactics are a bad idea. If FrontSight is involved with Scientology (not just Piazza), that is extremely worrisome, as they are trying to present a front for gun owners. Not all of us want to be associated with Scientology. So far, I don't think that FS is involved, though.
Nonetheless, he is entitled to his opinions as are you.
Dean G. has retracted any statements made and has claimed to not be the author of one bit that was particularly inflammatory.
Diana Hsieh's commentary, if you read it carefully, was originally designed to discredit Dean's supposed comments. After researching more and conversing with Piazza about it, she has since changed her mind. Her stance on Scientology hasn't changed, merely her view of Piazza's involvement with them.
The legal threats against GlockTalk are more troublesome to me. In order to prevent the free exchange of ideas he's willing to alienate a fair chunk of potential students. So far TFL hasn't been threatened, but Piazza apparently asked for address of one of the admins over there for the express purpose of mailing legal notices to them.
I have no complaints about the staff or the training. The strong arm legal tactics are a bad idea. If FrontSight is involved with Scientology (not just Piazza), that is extremely worrisome, as they are trying to present a front for gun owners. Not all of us want to be associated with Scientology. So far, I don't think that FS is involved, though.
11/21/2002 9:55:50 PM
WTF, It seems that Rich Lucibella at The Firing Line got a threatening Atty letter as well.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138756&highlight=front+sight
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138756&highlight=front+sight
11/22/2002 1:38:16 AM
Originally Posted By Robertesq1: WTF, It seems that Rich Lucibella at The Firing Line got a threatening Atty letter as well. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138756&highlight=front+sight |
I've read that, and he's not the one who got the letter. Eric @ Glocktalk did. R.L. was told that he was GOING to get one.
In general this is BAD for the shooting community as a whole. Infighting, particularly legal infighting isn't going to make us more popular with anyone else.
11/22/2002 1:05:04 PM
Call me crazy, but I am mystified as to why Front Site would take this tactic, threatening Gun Board Administrators with suit in order to suppress, at best, unfavorable discussions, at worst, libelous or slanderous comments (Slander is spoken, libel is written). I would have thought Front Site better served had they taken the higher ground, argued their position and presented facts establishing the frailty/fiction of the allegations presented. Initiating this action has appeared only to have increased our cognizance of this otherwise mildly interesting, off-beat and benign story (which would have likely quickly died a natural death) and to have engendered the animosity of the Front Site client base.
Certainly they are within their rights to avail themselves of the legal system to silence what they believe to be harmful conduct. It has however appeared that they are also silencing opinions, beliefs, criticisms, and reviews by the members of these boards (which are protected by the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution). Front Site’s actions have stuck in the craw of a community which so strongly believes in the rights granted to them by amendments of the constitution. In fact, I would venture to guess that most readers have been more offended by the legal action within the nest, than any real or imagined connection with scientologists. We are, in fact, a very tolerant community.
Almost everything on these sites is merely the opinion of the webmaster and/or the members. It is BTW virtually impossible in the US for a person to libel a corporate entity; in addition, "opinions" cannot be "libelous" as a matter of law. Furthermore, when a large corporation uses lawsuits (or the threat of them) to try to silence critics, there are grounds for a harassment suit against that corporation.
My suggestion for damage control; withdraw any threats to the administrators of these boards and make your case in an open forum not behind your lawyers.
Certainly they are within their rights to avail themselves of the legal system to silence what they believe to be harmful conduct. It has however appeared that they are also silencing opinions, beliefs, criticisms, and reviews by the members of these boards (which are protected by the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution). Front Site’s actions have stuck in the craw of a community which so strongly believes in the rights granted to them by amendments of the constitution. In fact, I would venture to guess that most readers have been more offended by the legal action within the nest, than any real or imagined connection with scientologists. We are, in fact, a very tolerant community.
Almost everything on these sites is merely the opinion of the webmaster and/or the members. It is BTW virtually impossible in the US for a person to libel a corporate entity; in addition, "opinions" cannot be "libelous" as a matter of law. Furthermore, when a large corporation uses lawsuits (or the threat of them) to try to silence critics, there are grounds for a harassment suit against that corporation.
My suggestion for damage control; withdraw any threats to the administrators of these boards and make your case in an open forum not behind your lawyers.
11/22/2002 5:52:03 PM
The glocktalk threat is being played up the wrong way and isn't really a threat, just an annoyance. Eric's stance is correct in this case. The idea that GT is somehow a mailing list is lame, and there have been more recent cases about bulletin board ops not being directly responsible for user content. IMO, the GT letter is merely being used as a strong arm way to stop people from talking about FrontSight in a non-favorable manner. And there are/were a LOT of FS fans on GT, including several instructors.
(note...I haven't seen the GT letter, this is just based on info gleaned from emails and other folks)
While I agree with this, I doubt that some of the personalities involved will allow this to happen.
(note...I haven't seen the GT letter, this is just based on info gleaned from emails and other folks)
Originally Posted By Robertesq1: My suggestion for damage control; withdraw any threats to the administrators of these boards and make your case in an open forum not behind your lawyers. |
While I agree with this, I doubt that some of the personalities involved will allow this to happen.
