Archived Posts » 59,726,163
New Deer rifle, what caliber?
11/27/2011 1:38:43 PM
So I have a .223 AR that I successfully used this year, and even though it worked well I'd feel more comfortable with a larger caliber to use next year. I went up into the north woods of WI for opening weekend this year, and the 40 acres we hunt on doesn't give many opportunities for shots over 30-40 yards. I think the .223 has enough energy at those ranges do to well, but next year I plan on going up north, and also hunting down here in the southern part of the state. Down here there are a lot of corn fields, so it's not uncommon to see deer at longer ranges than I would feel comfortable shooting one with a .223.
So I was thinking of getting a bolt gun in a bigger caliber to use down here. The area I'm thinking of hunting I could potentially have a shot in the 200-300 yard range, and I have access to that area for practicing shooting those distances. So now I'm trying to decide what caliber could be "best" for my situation. Recoil isn't a huge issue with me, my dad uses a .300 Win Mag and I've shot it before, not a big deal. I've shot a .30-06 also and didn't mind that either. I've also heard that .270 is a good caliber for deer, and I've considered .308 because of surplus ammo and the desire to own a .308 AR in the future.
I guess I'm asking which calibers do you think would work good for me? I don't want to get something that later on I will feel is "under powered" but at the same time I don't want to be spending extra money on shells for some cannon that is going to blow half a deer away when I shoot it. If anyone has any trajectory charts, or energy/velocity tables they'd like to share I'd enjoy looking them over and learning what I can.
So I was thinking of getting a bolt gun in a bigger caliber to use down here. The area I'm thinking of hunting I could potentially have a shot in the 200-300 yard range, and I have access to that area for practicing shooting those distances. So now I'm trying to decide what caliber could be "best" for my situation. Recoil isn't a huge issue with me, my dad uses a .300 Win Mag and I've shot it before, not a big deal. I've shot a .30-06 also and didn't mind that either. I've also heard that .270 is a good caliber for deer, and I've considered .308 because of surplus ammo and the desire to own a .308 AR in the future.
I guess I'm asking which calibers do you think would work good for me? I don't want to get something that later on I will feel is "under powered" but at the same time I don't want to be spending extra money on shells for some cannon that is going to blow half a deer away when I shoot it. If anyone has any trajectory charts, or energy/velocity tables they'd like to share I'd enjoy looking them over and learning what I can.
11/27/2011 1:41:17 PM
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
11/27/2011 2:00:49 PM
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
11/27/2011 2:01:32 PM
308
11/27/2011 2:03:40 PM
.308 tried and true.
.223 is not the go to round for deer hunting.
It may do the job, but not the optimim round for the job
Just my 2 cents
.223 is not the go to round for deer hunting.
It may do the job, but not the optimim round for the job
Just my 2 cents
11/27/2011 2:12:08 PM
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
11/27/2011 2:18:44 PM
also you said the yearling was as big as the deer in my pics, by yearling here we mean a weened fawn. I would like to see a pic of a 120+ lb fawn
11/27/2011 2:28:04 PM
I hunt whitetails with everything from .223 through to .375 and all kinds of calibers in between. Here's my take:
If ranges are under your 300 yard mark, its really quite hard to beat any of the "common" whitetail calibers: 7mm-08, .308. 30-06, 270, etc. While we hunters do like to endlessly argue over which is best, in truth there really isn't a lick of real difference between them. You do your part, and that whitetail is instantly transformed into venison. I find any real differences are more due to bullet selection than caliber.
I tend to like smaller, lighter rifles for whitetails. A 24 or 26 inch barrelled long action rifle seems to end up catching on brush and briars in my neck of the woods. I find a shorter, lighter rifle is handier and easier to carry here in New England. For that reason I tend to opt for the short action calibers (7mm-08, .308, etc). I have two favorite calibers: the 260 rem and the 308. The 260 is just about freakin ideal, and it does a wonderful job. Ammo is harder to find though, so its not a great option unless you handload. If you want factory ammo, your best bet is likely the plain jane, nothin fancy .308 winchester.
I've tried a whole raft of firearms. Everyhting from little 16" barrelled carbines to 26" barrelled belted mags. The really short barrels aren't balanced well, and they are LOUD and have terrible muzzle flash in dim light. The longer barrels catch on everything. They might be ideal in open sagebrush country but they suck in deep thick woods. For my territory (mixed everything from thick cedar swamps, to broken fields, and power tranmission lines) the 'perfect' deer rifle is something along the lines of Remmington's Model Seven in 7mm-08 or 308. Mount a compact 1.5-6X scope on it, and load it with relatively fast opening bullets. I like Noslers 165 Ballistic Tips. This combo is small, light and fast enough that its easy to use in the thickest swamp, easy to carry for mile after mile in the mountains of the Adirondack Park, yet has enough range and enough magnification to reach out to moderate distances (your 200-300 yard range) when needed.
As I noted earlier, I have a whole bunch of deer rifles to choose from. Everything from old-school .30-30 and .35 Rems, through to .350 Rem Mag and a .375 Win. I use the other calibers for novelty, but in all honesty the plain old vanilla Model Seven has taken more deer than all the other rifles combined. It's not fancy or exotic, but its damned near the perfect tool for the job.
Forget trajectory tables and the like. Anything in the common 260,7-08, 270, 280, 308, 3006 family is going to shoot damned near identical at ranges 0-300 yards. Sight them to shoot dead on at 200, and your bullet will drop about 8" at 300 yards. Differences between these calibers with common hunting bullets may be plus or minus one inch at 300 yards, not enough to worry about. If you are concerned about stopping power, torn up meat, etc, the caliber is not th most important thing. It's more a matter of bullet choice. Something like a basic no frills 150 jacketed soft point in 308/30-006 (130 in 270, 140 in 7-08) will punch clear through a deer's boiler room, tear everything up, and drop your deer dead after a 30 yard run. Moving to a more frragile bullet like a nosler ballistic tip or hornady SST will result in larger, moer sever wound channels that destroy more meat (but deer drop on thespot). Using a heavy for caliber tough bullet (example: 225 gr nosler partitions in my 350 rem mag) means thee bullet opens slow, drives deep, expends mot of its energy on the hillside behind the deer. The wound channel is surprisingly small (half the size of the 308 Ballistic tip) even though its a medium bore belted magnum. I often find deer run 50,60,80 yards before piling up. When comparing wounding, killing capacity, and meat loss in the common deer calibers the biggest deterrminant is bullet construction, not caliber.
Great options for moderate deer rifles in these calibers are Rem's model 7 and the Savage 10 series. Nothing fancy, moderate price, but completely reliable anf flly functional.
If ranges are under your 300 yard mark, its really quite hard to beat any of the "common" whitetail calibers: 7mm-08, .308. 30-06, 270, etc. While we hunters do like to endlessly argue over which is best, in truth there really isn't a lick of real difference between them. You do your part, and that whitetail is instantly transformed into venison. I find any real differences are more due to bullet selection than caliber.
I tend to like smaller, lighter rifles for whitetails. A 24 or 26 inch barrelled long action rifle seems to end up catching on brush and briars in my neck of the woods. I find a shorter, lighter rifle is handier and easier to carry here in New England. For that reason I tend to opt for the short action calibers (7mm-08, .308, etc). I have two favorite calibers: the 260 rem and the 308. The 260 is just about freakin ideal, and it does a wonderful job. Ammo is harder to find though, so its not a great option unless you handload. If you want factory ammo, your best bet is likely the plain jane, nothin fancy .308 winchester.
I've tried a whole raft of firearms. Everyhting from little 16" barrelled carbines to 26" barrelled belted mags. The really short barrels aren't balanced well, and they are LOUD and have terrible muzzle flash in dim light. The longer barrels catch on everything. They might be ideal in open sagebrush country but they suck in deep thick woods. For my territory (mixed everything from thick cedar swamps, to broken fields, and power tranmission lines) the 'perfect' deer rifle is something along the lines of Remmington's Model Seven in 7mm-08 or 308. Mount a compact 1.5-6X scope on it, and load it with relatively fast opening bullets. I like Noslers 165 Ballistic Tips. This combo is small, light and fast enough that its easy to use in the thickest swamp, easy to carry for mile after mile in the mountains of the Adirondack Park, yet has enough range and enough magnification to reach out to moderate distances (your 200-300 yard range) when needed.
As I noted earlier, I have a whole bunch of deer rifles to choose from. Everything from old-school .30-30 and .35 Rems, through to .350 Rem Mag and a .375 Win. I use the other calibers for novelty, but in all honesty the plain old vanilla Model Seven has taken more deer than all the other rifles combined. It's not fancy or exotic, but its damned near the perfect tool for the job.
Forget trajectory tables and the like. Anything in the common 260,7-08, 270, 280, 308, 3006 family is going to shoot damned near identical at ranges 0-300 yards. Sight them to shoot dead on at 200, and your bullet will drop about 8" at 300 yards. Differences between these calibers with common hunting bullets may be plus or minus one inch at 300 yards, not enough to worry about. If you are concerned about stopping power, torn up meat, etc, the caliber is not th most important thing. It's more a matter of bullet choice. Something like a basic no frills 150 jacketed soft point in 308/30-006 (130 in 270, 140 in 7-08) will punch clear through a deer's boiler room, tear everything up, and drop your deer dead after a 30 yard run. Moving to a more frragile bullet like a nosler ballistic tip or hornady SST will result in larger, moer sever wound channels that destroy more meat (but deer drop on thespot). Using a heavy for caliber tough bullet (example: 225 gr nosler partitions in my 350 rem mag) means thee bullet opens slow, drives deep, expends mot of its energy on the hillside behind the deer. The wound channel is surprisingly small (half the size of the 308 Ballistic tip) even though its a medium bore belted magnum. I often find deer run 50,60,80 yards before piling up. When comparing wounding, killing capacity, and meat loss in the common deer calibers the biggest deterrminant is bullet construction, not caliber.
Great options for moderate deer rifles in these calibers are Rem's model 7 and the Savage 10 series. Nothing fancy, moderate price, but completely reliable anf flly functional.
11/27/2011 2:29:56 PM
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
I didn't see those, however I went back and took a look, nice deer! Those are about the size of a good sized buck up here, are you handloading the 70gr TSX or is that a factory load? I'm not set up to reload right now, although it is something I'd like to get into, so I'm limited to what I can find online (no one locally carries .223 hunting ammo, just FMJ or v-max).
I noticed later on in the thread you mentioned using a .30-06 for some larger deer, and using a .243 also. Do you not use these anymore and exclusively use .223? I realize the .223 does the job, and you've shown that it can perform better than I originally thought, but I'm wondering in what situation do you use the .243 or .30-06 over the .223?
EDIT: I'm guessing based off the size of your AR that my yearling was roughly the size of those deer. We didn't weigh him, but I wouldn't of been surprised if he was 100 lbs. If those deer are 120 then they are likely bigger and I just misjudged based on the picture.
11/27/2011 2:31:41 PM
hard to beat a .243 for deer hunting.
11/27/2011 2:35:29 PM
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
I didn't see those, however I went back and took a look, nice deer! Those are about the size of a good sized buck up here, are you handloading the 70gr TSX or is that a factory load? I'm not set up to reload right now, although it is something I'd like to get into, so I'm limited to what I can find online (no one locally carries .223 hunting ammo, just FMJ or v-max).
I noticed later on in the thread you mentioned using a .30-06 for some larger deer, and using a .243 also. Do you not use these anymore and exclusively use .223? I realize the .223 does the job, and you've shown that it can perform better than I originally thought, but I'm wondering in what situation do you use the .243 or .30-06 over the .223?
EDIT: I'm guessing based off the size of your AR that my yearling was roughly the size of those deer. We didn't weigh him, but I wouldn't of been surprised if he was 100 lbs. If those deer are 120 then they are likely bigger and I just misjudged based on the picture.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
I didn't see those, however I went back and took a look, nice deer! Those are about the size of a good sized buck up here, are you handloading the 70gr TSX or is that a factory load? I'm not set up to reload right now, although it is something I'd like to get into, so I'm limited to what I can find online (no one locally carries .223 hunting ammo, just FMJ or v-max).
I noticed later on in the thread you mentioned using a .30-06 for some larger deer, and using a .243 also. Do you not use these anymore and exclusively use .223? I realize the .223 does the job, and you've shown that it can perform better than I originally thought, but I'm wondering in what situation do you use the .243 or .30-06 over the .223?
EDIT: I'm guessing based off the size of your AR that my yearling was roughly the size of those deer. We didn't weigh him, but I wouldn't of been surprised if he was 100 lbs. If those deer are 120 then they are likely bigger and I just misjudged based on the picture.
I use the 30'06 when I am strictly hunting a big buck, 30'06 will let you take some shots not quite as suited for 223, after seeing the bullet penetrate 30" though I am not as worried about it. 30'06 bucks the wind better and has more punch on those hard angled shots, you probably shouldn't be taking anyway at longer ranges, like 450 yards. I also enjoy hunting with all my guns. I have used Glock 17 and my 1911 as well.
I have been doing these threads for 3 years now, I use the 223 more than I ever did before
11/27/2011 2:43:42 PM
Originally Posted By frozenny:
Lot's of logical, smart advice.
Lot's of logical, smart advice.
You make a lot of sense, thanks for replying.
And honestly you put into words a lot of things that have crossed my mind. I agree with you on having a shorter barreled rifle. That's part of the reason I took my AR hunting this year, the 16" barrel was really nice for carrying through the woods and into my stand.
Honestly I don't know all that much about the bigger calibers, and if you say within 300 yards they all perform very similar, I believe you. I just didn't want to pick a .308 and then later on wish I had bought a .30-06 because it's slightly better at this/that, or pick a .270 and wish I had chose a .30 caliber cartridge instead.
11/27/2011 2:46:47 PM
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
You make a lot of sense, thanks for replying.
And honestly you put into words a lot of things that have crossed my mind. I agree with you on having a shorter barreled rifle. That's part of the reason I took my AR hunting this year, the 16" barrel was really nice for carrying through the woods and into my stand.
Honestly I don't know all that much about the bigger calibers, and if you say within 300 yards they all perform very similar, I believe you. I just didn't want to pick a .308 and then later on wish I had bought a .30-06 because it's slightly better at this/that, or pick a .270 and wish I had chose a .30 caliber cartridge instead.
Originally Posted By frozenny:
Lot's of logical, smart advice.
Lot's of logical, smart advice.
You make a lot of sense, thanks for replying.
And honestly you put into words a lot of things that have crossed my mind. I agree with you on having a shorter barreled rifle. That's part of the reason I took my AR hunting this year, the 16" barrel was really nice for carrying through the woods and into my stand.
Honestly I don't know all that much about the bigger calibers, and if you say within 300 yards they all perform very similar, I believe you. I just didn't want to pick a .308 and then later on wish I had bought a .30-06 because it's slightly better at this/that, or pick a .270 and wish I had chose a .30 caliber cartridge instead.
nah they all do about the same, not much practical difference in 308 and 30'06
11/27/2011 2:49:51 PM
Frozenny, the partition is semi premium these days. I find that premium bullets like the TSX expand quickly even in deer.
11/27/2011 2:50:12 PM
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I use the 30'06 when I am strictly hunting a big buck, 30'06 will let you take some shots not quite as suited for 223, after seeing the bullet penetrate 30" though I am not as worried about it. 30'06 bucks the wind better and has more punch on those hard angled shots, you probably shouldn't be taking anyway at longer ranges, like 450 yards. I also enjoy hunting with all my guns. I have used Glock 17 and my 1911 as well.
I have been doing these threads for 3 years now, I use the 223 more than I ever did before
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
I didn't see those, however I went back and took a look, nice deer! Those are about the size of a good sized buck up here, are you handloading the 70gr TSX or is that a factory load? I'm not set up to reload right now, although it is something I'd like to get into, so I'm limited to what I can find online (no one locally carries .223 hunting ammo, just FMJ or v-max).
I noticed later on in the thread you mentioned using a .30-06 for some larger deer, and using a .243 also. Do you not use these anymore and exclusively use .223? I realize the .223 does the job, and you've shown that it can perform better than I originally thought, but I'm wondering in what situation do you use the .243 or .30-06 over the .223?
EDIT: I'm guessing based off the size of your AR that my yearling was roughly the size of those deer. We didn't weigh him, but I wouldn't of been surprised if he was 100 lbs. If those deer are 120 then they are likely bigger and I just misjudged based on the picture.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
223 just flat out works
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1252771_Deer_VS_223_Season_3_Graphic_Pics_Updated_pic_of_recovered_bullet_and_vids.html
Yes it does, worked great on the yearling that I shot this year. My concern is at longer range, on a bigger bodied deer that it won't perform as well. No offense, but the yearling I shot was as big as the deer in your thread, the older corn fed deer down here in southern WI are freaking huge.
Did you see the buck further down? 200 lbs and shot at 200 yards. I shot a 180 lb doe at 420 yards 2 years ago, worked fine.
Also penetrated one of those deer for 30" with a frontal shot even a 300 lb buck is not 30" across his ribs. 300 lb deer are rare in any area. I have killed a 240 -260 lb buck with 223. You put the bullet where it goes, it does not matter what caliber you shoot.
I didn't see those, however I went back and took a look, nice deer! Those are about the size of a good sized buck up here, are you handloading the 70gr TSX or is that a factory load? I'm not set up to reload right now, although it is something I'd like to get into, so I'm limited to what I can find online (no one locally carries .223 hunting ammo, just FMJ or v-max).
I noticed later on in the thread you mentioned using a .30-06 for some larger deer, and using a .243 also. Do you not use these anymore and exclusively use .223? I realize the .223 does the job, and you've shown that it can perform better than I originally thought, but I'm wondering in what situation do you use the .243 or .30-06 over the .223?
EDIT: I'm guessing based off the size of your AR that my yearling was roughly the size of those deer. We didn't weigh him, but I wouldn't of been surprised if he was 100 lbs. If those deer are 120 then they are likely bigger and I just misjudged based on the picture.
I use the 30'06 when I am strictly hunting a big buck, 30'06 will let you take some shots not quite as suited for 223, after seeing the bullet penetrate 30" though I am not as worried about it. 30'06 bucks the wind better and has more punch on those hard angled shots, you probably shouldn't be taking anyway at longer ranges, like 450 yards. I also enjoy hunting with all my guns. I have used Glock 17 and my 1911 as well.
I have been doing these threads for 3 years now, I use the 223 more than I ever did before
This is why I want to pick up deer rifle in a slightly larger caliber. I'm going to flat out admit you have more experience than me hunting deer, and because of that you'll know what these situations are better than I would. I just think having the option of which gun to use is a good thing.
11/27/2011 2:56:11 PM
I like the .30-06. It is also More versatile for larger game as well.
11/27/2011 2:56:22 PM
Options are always a good thing
11/30/2011 9:46:17 AM
Originally Posted By frozenny:
I hunt whitetails with everything from .223 through to .375 and all kinds of calibers in between. Here's my take:
If ranges are under your 300 yard mark, its really quite hard to beat any of the "common" whitetail calibers: 7mm-08, .308. 30-06, 270, etc. While we hunters do like to endlessly argue over which is best, in truth there really isn't a lick of real difference between them. You do your part, and that whitetail is instantly transformed into venison. I find any real differences are more due to bullet selection than caliber.
I tend to like smaller, lighter rifles for whitetails. A 24 or 26 inch barrelled long action rifle seems to end up catching on brush and briars in my neck of the woods. I find a shorter, lighter rifle is handier and easier to carry here in New England. For that reason I tend to opt for the short action calibers (7mm-08, .308, etc). I have two favorite calibers: the 260 rem and the 308. The 260 is just about freakin ideal, and it does a wonderful job. Ammo is harder to find though, so its not a great option unless you handload. If you want factory ammo, your best bet is likely the plain jane, nothin fancy .308 winchester.
I've tried a whole raft of firearms. Everyhting from little 16" barrelled carbines to 26" barrelled belted mags. The really short barrels aren't balanced well, and they are LOUD and have terrible muzzle flash in dim light. The longer barrels catch on everything. They might be ideal in open sagebrush country but they suck in deep thick woods. For my territory (mixed everything from thick cedar swamps, to broken fields, and power tranmission lines) the 'perfect' deer rifle is something along the lines of Remmington's Model Seven in 7mm-08 or 308. Mount a compact 1.5-6X scope on it, and load it with relatively fast opening bullets. I like Noslers 165 Ballistic Tips. This combo is small, light and fast enough that its easy to use in the thickest swamp, easy to carry for mile after mile in the mountains of the Adirondack Park, yet has enough range and enough magnification to reach out to moderate distances (your 200-300 yard range) when needed.
As I noted earlier, I have a whole bunch of deer rifles to choose from. Everything from old-school .30-30 and .35 Rems, through to .350 Rem Mag and a .375 Win. I use the other calibers for novelty, but in all honesty the plain old vanilla Model Seven has taken more deer than all the other rifles combined. It's not fancy or exotic, but its damned near the perfect tool for the job.
Forget trajectory tables and the like. Anything in the common 260,7-08, 270, 280, 308, 3006 family is going to shoot damned near identical at ranges 0-300 yards. Sight them to shoot dead on at 200, and your bullet will drop about 8" at 300 yards. Differences between these calibers with common hunting bullets may be plus or minus one inch at 300 yards, not enough to worry about. If you are concerned about stopping power, torn up meat, etc, the caliber is not th most important thing. It's more a matter of bullet choice. Something like a basic no frills 150 jacketed soft point in 308/30-006 (130 in 270, 140 in 7-08) will punch clear through a deer's boiler room, tear everything up, and drop your deer dead after a 30 yard run. Moving to a more frragile bullet like a nosler ballistic tip or hornady SST will result in larger, moer sever wound channels that destroy more meat (but deer drop on thespot). Using a heavy for caliber tough bullet (example: 225 gr nosler partitions in my 350 rem mag) means thee bullet opens slow, drives deep, expends mot of its energy on the hillside behind the deer. The wound channel is surprisingly small (half the size of the 308 Ballistic tip) even though its a medium bore belted magnum. I often find deer run 50,60,80 yards before piling up. When comparing wounding, killing capacity, and meat loss in the common deer calibers the biggest deterrminant is bullet construction, not caliber.
Great options for moderate deer rifles in these calibers are Rem's model 7 and the Savage 10 series. Nothing fancy, moderate price, but completely reliable anf flly functional.
I hunt whitetails with everything from .223 through to .375 and all kinds of calibers in between. Here's my take:
If ranges are under your 300 yard mark, its really quite hard to beat any of the "common" whitetail calibers: 7mm-08, .308. 30-06, 270, etc. While we hunters do like to endlessly argue over which is best, in truth there really isn't a lick of real difference between them. You do your part, and that whitetail is instantly transformed into venison. I find any real differences are more due to bullet selection than caliber.
I tend to like smaller, lighter rifles for whitetails. A 24 or 26 inch barrelled long action rifle seems to end up catching on brush and briars in my neck of the woods. I find a shorter, lighter rifle is handier and easier to carry here in New England. For that reason I tend to opt for the short action calibers (7mm-08, .308, etc). I have two favorite calibers: the 260 rem and the 308. The 260 is just about freakin ideal, and it does a wonderful job. Ammo is harder to find though, so its not a great option unless you handload. If you want factory ammo, your best bet is likely the plain jane, nothin fancy .308 winchester.
I've tried a whole raft of firearms. Everyhting from little 16" barrelled carbines to 26" barrelled belted mags. The really short barrels aren't balanced well, and they are LOUD and have terrible muzzle flash in dim light. The longer barrels catch on everything. They might be ideal in open sagebrush country but they suck in deep thick woods. For my territory (mixed everything from thick cedar swamps, to broken fields, and power tranmission lines) the 'perfect' deer rifle is something along the lines of Remmington's Model Seven in 7mm-08 or 308. Mount a compact 1.5-6X scope on it, and load it with relatively fast opening bullets. I like Noslers 165 Ballistic Tips. This combo is small, light and fast enough that its easy to use in the thickest swamp, easy to carry for mile after mile in the mountains of the Adirondack Park, yet has enough range and enough magnification to reach out to moderate distances (your 200-300 yard range) when needed.
As I noted earlier, I have a whole bunch of deer rifles to choose from. Everything from old-school .30-30 and .35 Rems, through to .350 Rem Mag and a .375 Win. I use the other calibers for novelty, but in all honesty the plain old vanilla Model Seven has taken more deer than all the other rifles combined. It's not fancy or exotic, but its damned near the perfect tool for the job.
Forget trajectory tables and the like. Anything in the common 260,7-08, 270, 280, 308, 3006 family is going to shoot damned near identical at ranges 0-300 yards. Sight them to shoot dead on at 200, and your bullet will drop about 8" at 300 yards. Differences between these calibers with common hunting bullets may be plus or minus one inch at 300 yards, not enough to worry about. If you are concerned about stopping power, torn up meat, etc, the caliber is not th most important thing. It's more a matter of bullet choice. Something like a basic no frills 150 jacketed soft point in 308/30-006 (130 in 270, 140 in 7-08) will punch clear through a deer's boiler room, tear everything up, and drop your deer dead after a 30 yard run. Moving to a more frragile bullet like a nosler ballistic tip or hornady SST will result in larger, moer sever wound channels that destroy more meat (but deer drop on thespot). Using a heavy for caliber tough bullet (example: 225 gr nosler partitions in my 350 rem mag) means thee bullet opens slow, drives deep, expends mot of its energy on the hillside behind the deer. The wound channel is surprisingly small (half the size of the 308 Ballistic tip) even though its a medium bore belted magnum. I often find deer run 50,60,80 yards before piling up. When comparing wounding, killing capacity, and meat loss in the common deer calibers the biggest deterrminant is bullet construction, not caliber.
Great options for moderate deer rifles in these calibers are Rem's model 7 and the Savage 10 series. Nothing fancy, moderate price, but completely reliable anf flly functional.
Your right on the mark.
11/30/2011 12:03:32 PM
For your situation, i like the .308.
11/30/2011 12:26:02 PM
Love my .30-06 for 500M and closer shots.
.338 UM for longer than that.
All handloads of course
.338 UM for longer than that.
All handloads of course
11/30/2011 1:00:17 PM
If you are comfortable with your AR what about a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC upper?
11/30/2011 1:16:15 PM
Originally Posted By RJT1:
I like the .30-06. It is also More versatile for larger game as well.
I like the .30-06. It is also More versatile for larger game as well.
This is my vote too
Anything 308 can do 30-06 can do bigger
11/30/2011 1:47:26 PM
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
If you are comfortable with your AR what about a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC upper?
If you are comfortable with your AR what about a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC upper?
Definitely something I considered. I like 6.8 but the only real downside to the 6.5 vs 6.8 discussion that I ever saw was that AA had a tight grip on the 6.5. Now that their license or whatever is up I'm interested to see if other manufacturers jump into it. Either way, 6.8 or 6.5, I would like to get another upper, but at the same time I can get a inexpensive bolt gun for less cost than just a AR upper and I'm not limited to the bullet length issue.
I'm leaning towards .308 right now. I realize it doesn't have the same oomph the magnums have but I do like the cost of ammo on it and it would be a nicer gun to take to the range for a day of shooting.
11/30/2011 4:35:16 PM
Maverick:
I'll re-emphasize this point. Do not get hung up on magnums. Most deer I've shot with the .308 have literally been dead before they hit the ground. They dropped like a box of rocks. The key? In this case it was shot placement and the use of a rapidly expanding bullet that literally liquified a large portion of the internals. On the other hand I've hammer them broadside at less than 30 yards with 225 Grain bullets from a 350 Rem mag. We're talking some 3,700 ft lbs of energy. It's serious big game medicine. And despite the numbers deer hammered with this cannon still run! Why? It's all bullet construction.
.308 or any similar cartridge will flatten deer at any reasonable range provided you choose the right bullet. Unless you are doing something unusual (like hunting Coues Deer) theres no need for a magnum. Even then you could make a serious case for something like .260. With the right bullet it shoots incredibly flat, keeping pace with the belted magnums, while using half the powder and half the recoil.
It's all in using the right bullet.
I'll re-emphasize this point. Do not get hung up on magnums. Most deer I've shot with the .308 have literally been dead before they hit the ground. They dropped like a box of rocks. The key? In this case it was shot placement and the use of a rapidly expanding bullet that literally liquified a large portion of the internals. On the other hand I've hammer them broadside at less than 30 yards with 225 Grain bullets from a 350 Rem mag. We're talking some 3,700 ft lbs of energy. It's serious big game medicine. And despite the numbers deer hammered with this cannon still run! Why? It's all bullet construction.
.308 or any similar cartridge will flatten deer at any reasonable range provided you choose the right bullet. Unless you are doing something unusual (like hunting Coues Deer) theres no need for a magnum. Even then you could make a serious case for something like .260. With the right bullet it shoots incredibly flat, keeping pace with the belted magnums, while using half the powder and half the recoil.
It's all in using the right bullet.
11/30/2011 4:37:33 PM
My favorite 3 calibers for deer are .270, 30.06 and .308.
eta: as the poster above said, use good quality ammo suited for the job, not the cheap stuff. I use Hornady Fusion and Winchester Supreme Nosler Ballistic Silvertip and XPS3 almost exclusively.
eta: as the poster above said, use good quality ammo suited for the job, not the cheap stuff. I use Hornady Fusion and Winchester Supreme Nosler Ballistic Silvertip and XPS3 almost exclusively.
11/30/2011 5:18:10 PM
Originally Posted By Maverick52:
Definitely something I considered. I like 6.8 but the only real downside to the 6.5 vs 6.8 discussion that I ever saw was that AA had a tight grip on the 6.5. Now that their license or whatever is up I'm interested to see if other manufacturers jump into it. Either way, 6.8 or 6.5, I would like to get another upper, but at the same time I can get a inexpensive bolt gun for less cost than just a AR upper and I'm not limited to the bullet length issue.
I'm leaning towards .308 right now. I realize it doesn't have the same oomph the magnums have but I do like the cost of ammo on it and it would be a nicer gun to take to the range for a day of shooting.
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
If you are comfortable with your AR what about a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC upper?
If you are comfortable with your AR what about a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC upper?
Definitely something I considered. I like 6.8 but the only real downside to the 6.5 vs 6.8 discussion that I ever saw was that AA had a tight grip on the 6.5. Now that their license or whatever is up I'm interested to see if other manufacturers jump into it. Either way, 6.8 or 6.5, I would like to get another upper, but at the same time I can get a inexpensive bolt gun for less cost than just a AR upper and I'm not limited to the bullet length issue.
I'm leaning towards .308 right now. I realize it doesn't have the same oomph the magnums have but I do like the cost of ammo on it and it would be a nicer gun to take to the range for a day of shooting.
There are very few people that 'need' a magnum to kill deer. Lots of guys up north(Wisconsin) would have you believing that the only way to kill one of those critters for sure is a 7mm rem mag or a 300 ultra mag...hell i had one guy at the bar confirm that he switched to 338 ultra mag because he was hitting deer 'right through the heart' with his 300 win mag and they wouldn't die.
99.9999% of people are not going to be shooting beyond 200yds, let alone beyond 600yds where the 308 starts to lack energy.
I know i'm not going to be shooting at deer that are 600yds away. Hell, i don't even think i could see a deer 400yds away where i hunt and i wouldn't shoot at that range either.
11/30/2011 5:48:02 PM
Sounds like a great reason to pick up a .308 AR. I would love to be able to hunt with a .308 AR. But my state is in the stone age and no auto loaders allowed.
11/30/2011 6:00:34 PM
Depends on the state, VA doesn't allow .223 for deer. .270 or .308 is good to go. 30-06 has been used forever for deer.
11/30/2011 6:34:39 PM
Originally Posted By frozenny:
Maverick:
I'll re-emphasize this point. Do not get hung up on magnums. Most deer I've shot with the .308 have literally been dead before they hit the ground. They dropped like a box of rocks. The key? In this case it was shot placement and the use of a rapidly expanding bullet that literally liquified a large portion of the internals. On the other hand I've hammer them broadside at less than 30 yards with 225 Grain bullets from a 350 Rem mag. We're talking some 3,700 ft lbs of energy. It's serious big game medicine. And despite the numbers deer hammered with this cannon still run! Why? It's all bullet construction.
.308 or any similar cartridge will flatten deer at any reasonable range provided you choose the right bullet. Unless you are doing something unusual (like hunting Coues Deer) theres no need for a magnum. Even then you could make a serious case for something like .260. With the right bullet it shoots incredibly flat, keeping pace with the belted magnums, while using half the powder and half the recoil.
It's all in using the right bullet.
Maverick:
I'll re-emphasize this point. Do not get hung up on magnums. Most deer I've shot with the .308 have literally been dead before they hit the ground. They dropped like a box of rocks. The key? In this case it was shot placement and the use of a rapidly expanding bullet that literally liquified a large portion of the internals. On the other hand I've hammer them broadside at less than 30 yards with 225 Grain bullets from a 350 Rem mag. We're talking some 3,700 ft lbs of energy. It's serious big game medicine. And despite the numbers deer hammered with this cannon still run! Why? It's all bullet construction.
.308 or any similar cartridge will flatten deer at any reasonable range provided you choose the right bullet. Unless you are doing something unusual (like hunting Coues Deer) theres no need for a magnum. Even then you could make a serious case for something like .260. With the right bullet it shoots incredibly flat, keeping pace with the belted magnums, while using half the powder and half the recoil.
It's all in using the right bullet.
Could you give some examples on what are considered "rapidly expanding" bullets? I used a Barnes TSX bullet in .223 this year due to the recommendations of this site, and although I saw it worked very well, the internals were definitely not "liquified" and the bullet passed through.
11/30/2011 8:23:02 PM
6.8mmSPC upper.
Get the SPEC II chamber and 1:11 or 1:12 twist.
Get some SIERRA pro hunters and you are GOOD TO GO
Get the SPEC II chamber and 1:11 or 1:12 twist.
Get some SIERRA pro hunters and you are GOOD TO GO
11/30/2011 9:21:45 PM
My experience is to stay away from the "rapidly expanding" bullets when hunting deer sized animals. I have personally been involved in tracking a nice buck that was shot broadside at 100 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag with a Nosler Ballistic Tip. The buck dropped in its tracks so the hunter waited about 20 minutes until the sun went down before he left his blind. When he walked up to the buck he found a large thick puddle of blood and a blood trail big enough that a blind man could follow it from the clearing into the thorn brush. The hunter decided that he may need a hand, so he came back to the ranch house. We ate supper, then went back to the scene and started tracking. We tracked that buck through thorn brush so thick we had to crawl on our hands an knees for about 400 yards, blood everywhere and at times it looked like it was poured out of a soup can. The blood trail left the brush and into a field of tall grass but the blood trail became much less over the next 200 yards until it simply stopped. We walked a grid search pattern. Nothing. We brought in dogs. Nothing We looked the next morning in daylight with the dogs. Nothing.
I have read accounts of Nosler BT's coming apart before reaching the vitals, and I suspect that is what happened in this case. Because of this experience, I prefer to use a premium / bonded core / Nosler Partition bullets on deer sized animals.
On deer, proper bullets in the proper location will deliver excellent results. Bullet diameter has become a non-issue over the last few years. What was true 25 years ago doesn't really apply today with premium / bonded core bullets.
I have read accounts of Nosler BT's coming apart before reaching the vitals, and I suspect that is what happened in this case. Because of this experience, I prefer to use a premium / bonded core / Nosler Partition bullets on deer sized animals.
On deer, proper bullets in the proper location will deliver excellent results. Bullet diameter has become a non-issue over the last few years. What was true 25 years ago doesn't really apply today with premium / bonded core bullets.
11/30/2011 9:40:16 PM
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
My experience is to stay away from the "rapidly expanding" bullets when hunting deer sized animals. I have personally been involved in tracking a nice buck that was shot broadside at 100 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag with a Nosler Ballistic Tip. The buck dropped in its tracks so the hunter waited about 20 minutes until the sun went down before he left his blind. When he walked up to the buck he found a large thick puddle of blood and a blood trail big enough that a blind man could follow it from the clearing into the thorn brush. The hunter decided that he may need a hand, so he came back to the ranch house. We ate supper, then went back to the scene and started tracking. We tracked that buck through thorn brush so thick we had to crawl on our hands an knees for about 400 yards, blood everywhere and at times it looked like it was poured out of a soup can. The blood trail left the brush and into a field of tall grass but the blood trail became much less over the next 200 yards until it simply stopped. We walked a grid search pattern. Nothing. We brought in dogs. Nothing We looked the next morning in daylight with the dogs. Nothing.
I have read accounts of Nosler BT's coming apart before reaching the vitals, and I suspect that is what happened in this case. Because of this experience, I prefer to use a premium / bonded core / Nosler Partition bullets on deer sized animals.
On deer, proper bullets in the proper location will deliver excellent results. Bullet diameter has become a non-issue over the last few years. What was true 25 years ago doesn't really apply today with premium / bonded core bullets.
My experience is to stay away from the "rapidly expanding" bullets when hunting deer sized animals. I have personally been involved in tracking a nice buck that was shot broadside at 100 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag with a Nosler Ballistic Tip. The buck dropped in its tracks so the hunter waited about 20 minutes until the sun went down before he left his blind. When he walked up to the buck he found a large thick puddle of blood and a blood trail big enough that a blind man could follow it from the clearing into the thorn brush. The hunter decided that he may need a hand, so he came back to the ranch house. We ate supper, then went back to the scene and started tracking. We tracked that buck through thorn brush so thick we had to crawl on our hands an knees for about 400 yards, blood everywhere and at times it looked like it was poured out of a soup can. The blood trail left the brush and into a field of tall grass but the blood trail became much less over the next 200 yards until it simply stopped. We walked a grid search pattern. Nothing. We brought in dogs. Nothing We looked the next morning in daylight with the dogs. Nothing.
I have read accounts of Nosler BT's coming apart before reaching the vitals, and I suspect that is what happened in this case. Because of this experience, I prefer to use a premium / bonded core / Nosler Partition bullets on deer sized animals.
On deer, proper bullets in the proper location will deliver excellent results. Bullet diameter has become a non-issue over the last few years. What was true 25 years ago doesn't really apply today with premium / bonded core bullets.
I can pretty much second this, however even highly frangible bullets will kill quickly and easily if you put them into the ribs behind the shoulder. You hunter more than likely hit the shoulder maybe even the bone. I have seen this same failure several times and even experienced it myself once with the largest buck I have ever seen much less had in my scope. We had to use the dog to trail down a deer my brother shot 5 years ago, 300 win mag 250 yards hit it mid way up the shoulder with a 150 grn Rem Core-Lokt. It pretty much blew the shoulder off, The buck dropped at the shot. In an example of extreme failure my brother had only one bullet with him. The deer lay still for a bit, but then struggled and regained it's footing and limped away. He drove the 3 miles back to the house and got me, we searched for many hrs, despite the seriousness of the wound, we found very little blood, even where the buck lay on the ground. After the first 15 yards we found nothing. After many hrs I finally found a pencil eraser sized chunk of flesh hanging on a plum bush about 200 yards off the wheat field the buck was shot on. The next morning my brother and father returned with my trusty old GSD who found the deer 2 miles away bedded down in a standing corn field. The buck still had enough in him he gained his footing and went a few rounds with the dog, before my brother shot him in the neck with a 9mm and the dog got him by throat. I was not there to witness everything and I greatly regret it, Old Duke had to be put down a couple months later as he had a football sized tumor on his kidneys. He was a good dog
12/1/2011 1:08:00 AM
.243, .270 and 30-06 are all fantastic deer calibers.
12/1/2011 11:01:45 AM
I'm partial to the .270. Remington 130 gr. Core-Lokt PSP. Hits like lightning and puts deer DOWN right there.
I take a lot of inexperienced hunters out and loan them this rifle. 30 yds., 150 yds., doesn't matter. Hit em behind the shoulder and they are down and twitching. They're cheap, accurate as hell and have killed probably millions of deer.
I have had experiences with some of the "Premium" ammo, especially Ballistic Tips, that leave me a lot less impressed with the so-called "Premium" ammo. I think on deer the old fashioned Core-Lokt bullet in sufficient caliber is the best medicine.
Ammo companies come up with all the imroved new designs at $2.00 a pop to, I think, improve their bottom line not your deer hunting. Magnums, shorter range and tougher animals MIGHT be a different story.
A few weeks ago my son killed his first two at about 75 yards with this combo. Both DRT. Fell where they stood and were about 10 yards apart. Last year my girlfriend's 21 year old son killed his first two ever- same story. DRT- One at about 30 yards and one at about 155 yards. Spent the previous night trying to track one for somebody else shooting a .243 with WhizBangBlammoAmmo bullets- blood trail ran out and never found it.
A few years ago my middle son shot a nice 8 point at 142 yards using a Ballistic Tip in the .270. Perfect placement- saw it hit through 10X binos. Waited about twenty minutes and that buck was gone. Tiny single drops of blood 15-30 yards apart in heavy brush. Took me two hours to track him (longest track I've ever had). Pencil sized entry hole- pencil sized exit hole. He had plenty of steam left in his boiler after the shot. Used the rest of the box on paper. Can't condemn the BT based on my experiences, but I choose to use what works for me and that's the proven 130 gr. Core-Lokt PSP. I'd use the same in .308, 30-06, .280 etc and any would be great whitetail medicine.
I take a lot of inexperienced hunters out and loan them this rifle. 30 yds., 150 yds., doesn't matter. Hit em behind the shoulder and they are down and twitching. They're cheap, accurate as hell and have killed probably millions of deer.
I have had experiences with some of the "Premium" ammo, especially Ballistic Tips, that leave me a lot less impressed with the so-called "Premium" ammo. I think on deer the old fashioned Core-Lokt bullet in sufficient caliber is the best medicine.
Ammo companies come up with all the imroved new designs at $2.00 a pop to, I think, improve their bottom line not your deer hunting. Magnums, shorter range and tougher animals MIGHT be a different story.
A few weeks ago my son killed his first two at about 75 yards with this combo. Both DRT. Fell where they stood and were about 10 yards apart. Last year my girlfriend's 21 year old son killed his first two ever- same story. DRT- One at about 30 yards and one at about 155 yards. Spent the previous night trying to track one for somebody else shooting a .243 with WhizBangBlammoAmmo bullets- blood trail ran out and never found it.
A few years ago my middle son shot a nice 8 point at 142 yards using a Ballistic Tip in the .270. Perfect placement- saw it hit through 10X binos. Waited about twenty minutes and that buck was gone. Tiny single drops of blood 15-30 yards apart in heavy brush. Took me two hours to track him (longest track I've ever had). Pencil sized entry hole- pencil sized exit hole. He had plenty of steam left in his boiler after the shot. Used the rest of the box on paper. Can't condemn the BT based on my experiences, but I choose to use what works for me and that's the proven 130 gr. Core-Lokt PSP. I'd use the same in .308, 30-06, .280 etc and any would be great whitetail medicine.
12/1/2011 11:22:05 AM
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
12/1/2011 11:53:26 AM
308 has common ammo available anywhere, lots of bullets for handloading, and is plenty for deer, nationwide. Also very accurate.
I've killed more deer with 308 than any other caliber, but my 270 WIN, 30-06, 7.5x55 Swiss, 45-70, and 300 WIN MAG have all been just as effective on deer, antelope, and Oryx.
If ammo commonality wasn't an issue, 260 REM or 7mm-08 would be my choice. Both are based upon the 308 case, but you don't really need a 30 caliber bullet to kill deer.
Now, if you want to hunt Elk as well as deer, I'd suggest a 270 WIN, 280 REM, or 30-06. These three have a little more gas than a 308-class round with heavier for caliber bullets. If I could only have one hunting rifle for North America, it would be a 30-06. In a light to medium weight hunting rifle, it's the most recoil I want to deal with.
-David
Edgewood, NM
I've killed more deer with 308 than any other caliber, but my 270 WIN, 30-06, 7.5x55 Swiss, 45-70, and 300 WIN MAG have all been just as effective on deer, antelope, and Oryx.
If ammo commonality wasn't an issue, 260 REM or 7mm-08 would be my choice. Both are based upon the 308 case, but you don't really need a 30 caliber bullet to kill deer.
Now, if you want to hunt Elk as well as deer, I'd suggest a 270 WIN, 280 REM, or 30-06. These three have a little more gas than a 308-class round with heavier for caliber bullets. If I could only have one hunting rifle for North America, it would be a 30-06. In a light to medium weight hunting rifle, it's the most recoil I want to deal with.
-David
Edgewood, NM
12/1/2011 11:57:46 AM
Originally Posted By at4rxj:
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
12/1/2011 12:03:27 PM
I don't shoot little deer... :)
Bucks here on a good year get pretty big. The 7mm retains energy better at distances. Plus, I want to go on an elk hunt one day.
Bucks here on a good year get pretty big. The 7mm retains energy better at distances. Plus, I want to go on an elk hunt one day.
12/1/2011 12:09:30 PM
I don't believe caliber contributes as much as bullet construction and shot placement.
I would feel confident with any gun shooting Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition bullet from a accurate gun (1 MOA).
Know your ACTUAL, not theoretical ballistic.
Totally noobwie friend bought a .308 5R Milspec (great rifle) but he doesn't understand the ballistic.
He was complaining his 100 yard shot is not same as 50 yard shot. He doesn't understand the ballistics yet.
Also, he has only been shooting the gun from a bench using a lead sleigh with adjustments. This is not same
as hunting situation. He also turns up his Zeiss Conquest to highest power.
So my point is
1. Select the best bullet possible. Stout but expands. Holds together well. Good sectional density.
2. Select a rifle that will shoot above 1 moa
3. Select a scope that is appropriate.
4. Practice off the bench.
5. Know your gun and how it behaves.
I would feel confident with any gun shooting Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition bullet from a accurate gun (1 MOA).
Know your ACTUAL, not theoretical ballistic.
Totally noobwie friend bought a .308 5R Milspec (great rifle) but he doesn't understand the ballistic.
He was complaining his 100 yard shot is not same as 50 yard shot. He doesn't understand the ballistics yet.
Also, he has only been shooting the gun from a bench using a lead sleigh with adjustments. This is not same
as hunting situation. He also turns up his Zeiss Conquest to highest power.
So my point is
1. Select the best bullet possible. Stout but expands. Holds together well. Good sectional density.
2. Select a rifle that will shoot above 1 moa
3. Select a scope that is appropriate.
4. Practice off the bench.
5. Know your gun and how it behaves.
12/1/2011 12:14:10 PM
Originally Posted By at4rxj:
I don't shoot little deer... :)
Bucks here on a good year get pretty big. The 7mm retains energy better at distances. Plus, I want to go on an elk hunt one day.
I don't shoot little deer... :)
Bucks here on a good year get pretty big. The 7mm retains energy better at distances. Plus, I want to go on an elk hunt one day.
Where you at it Texas? Panhandle or Trans-Pecos? Those areas have some big Mulies. Deer elsewhere in the state rarely get over 225 lbs.
But yeah if want to shoot big bullet elk at distance, 7mm is a good round if you can handle the recoil. But for deer inside of 600 yards, it won't kill them any deader than a 308.
-David
Edgewood, NM
12/1/2011 4:10:27 PM
model 7 in 308 or anything in 3006
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Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
12/1/2011 7:11:28 PM
There is getting be a lot of BULL in this thread, from 243 to 7mm rem mag there is not much difference at all, ( AS LONG AS YOU USE THE RIGHT BULLET) in any of the popular calibers to PRACTICAL hunting distances 400 yards and in. 90% of the people have no business shooting at a deer at 300 yards much less the distances a Belted magnum is need for. The all have the about the same results on deer as well. Yes you can push a non bonded light weight bullet out of a belted magnum at high velocity and blow a hole big as your head through a deer. That same bullet may also fail to penetrate a shoulder and litterally blow the leg shoulder whatever off of the deer, only to have a 3 legged deer run over the horizon. Anyone that says you can put a deer down 100% DRT with a behind the shoulder shot, with any caliber, is uninformed and should not be handing out advice to anyone with regards to deer hunting and terminal bullet performance.
12/1/2011 7:14:25 PM
Originally Posted By at4rxj:
I don't shoot little deer... :)
Bucks here on a good year get pretty big. The 7mm retains energy better at distances. Plus, I want to go on an elk hunt one day.
I don't shoot little deer... :)
Bucks here on a good year get pretty big. The 7mm retains energy better at distances. Plus, I want to go on an elk hunt one day.
I can knock down any deer in this state with a 223 and a 70 grn TSX to 400 yards, that is far enough
12/1/2011 7:15:31 PM
Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Originally Posted By at4rxj:
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
For deer hunting you should never have to adjust your dope in your scope, a 270 shoots flat enough to hold on a deer out to 400
12/2/2011 12:27:58 AM
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
For deer hunting you should never have to adjust your dope in your scope, a 270 shoots flat enough to hold on a deer out to 400
Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Originally Posted By at4rxj:
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
For deer hunting you should never have to adjust your dope in your scope, a 270 shoots flat enough to hold on a deer out to 400
From what arse did you pull that arbitrary piece of wisdom? If you have target knobs (couple of Nightforces here) and the knowledge to use them, dialing in dope is critical for precision hits.
-David
Edgewood, NM
12/2/2011 12:39:27 AM
Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
From what arse did you pull that arbitrary piece of wisdom? If you have target knobs (couple of Nightforces here) and the knowledge to use them, dialing in dope is critical for precision hits.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
For deer hunting you should never have to adjust your dope in your scope, a 270 shoots flat enough to hold on a deer out to 400
Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Originally Posted By at4rxj:
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
270 or 7mm mag
I think the 270 offers a flat shooting round with good energy and a great hunting bullet selection. If you want a little more reach and hitting power, go to the 7mm.
I question people who don't know what they're doing hunting with a 300 mag, and have no issues with those that know what they're doing hunting with a 223. The OP specifically asked about something MORE than 223.
I agree that 270 WIN is great all around round, and shoots flat for folks that don't know how to work target knobs or ballistic reticles.
Not to start a war or anything (went to college in TX), but why the heck would you want a 7mm REM MAG for shooting deer in Texas? BIG ones are 200 lbs and most are closer to the size of a big Lab. A 308 has plenty of killing energy to 700+ yards.
I just don't get why folks want the super whiz bang magnums for deer. Now for long range bull elk or moose, yeah, a 300 WIN or a 7mm REM Mag will give you some extra energy at long range shooting across big valleys in open country, but deer? I feel no need to have a rifle beat on me unless necessary.
-David
Edgewood, NM
For deer hunting you should never have to adjust your dope in your scope, a 270 shoots flat enough to hold on a deer out to 400
From what arse did you pull that arbitrary piece of wisdom? If you have target knobs (couple of Nightforces here) and the knowledge to use them, dialing in dope is critical for precision hits.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Out of my factual ass. 300 yard zero puts you no higher than 4.4" above aim and only 10.2 low at 400 yards. You are holding low on the deer from 0 to 200 yards and then high on the deer at 400. You dont need to mess with doping your scope, unless you want to adjust for wind drift. At those distances Id rather just hold into the wind.
ETA there is less than 2" of difference in the trajectory of the 270 and the 30'06 out to 400 yards, yet people tell me the 270 shoots so much flatter. with the same 300 yard Zero the '06 is 4.9 or +.5 higher at 200 and 11.4 low at 400 or - 1.2 " so the there is about 1.7" total difference in the trajectory of the two rounds, this is basically nothing when shooting at targets the size of a deer.
12/2/2011 12:53:13 AM
No argument about 270 versus 30-06 versus 308 out to 500 yards for that matter. Less than 1.5 MOA worth of difference between the three.
How many folks actually zero at 300 yards?
I zero at 100 or 200 and dial my knobs (be they Nightforce knobs, or Garand knobs, or LRB M14 knobs) to get me whereever I need to go....out past 1000 field shooting at least every other month.
Fair bit of tac match experience on this end, as well as hunting.
Target knobs and field dope give you the best chance for a quick killing heart or CNS shot.
-David
Edgewood, NM
How many folks actually zero at 300 yards?
I zero at 100 or 200 and dial my knobs (be they Nightforce knobs, or Garand knobs, or LRB M14 knobs) to get me whereever I need to go....out past 1000 field shooting at least every other month.
Fair bit of tac match experience on this end, as well as hunting.
Target knobs and field dope give you the best chance for a quick killing heart or CNS shot.
-David
Edgewood, NM
12/2/2011 12:57:38 AM
I can place a bullet where I want it on a deer by holding high or low, even a 200 yard zero with a 270 puts you holding right at the back line for a heart shot. I do not usually have time to dial in dope. Lucky if I get time to lase the target.
12/2/2011 1:07:22 AM
Well, depends upon your kinda hunting.
For hunting Elk here in the mountains of New Mexico, I use a 30-06 with a Leupold that has a ballistic reticle because it is fast and I usually don't have time to even laze a target. Hunting Pronghorns in New Mexico, i've got plenty of time to laze and dial my knobs. Longest Pronghorn kill (one shot kill) was 617 yards.
In Texas, I'm usually HARVESTING over a salt lick, wheat field, or corn feeder and i've got plenty of time to laze, dope, dial, and dump. Dialing offers the greatest precision, and the best way to be precise is to dial knobs on a good target scope like a Nightforce or S&B.
I shoot lots of tac matches at NRA Whittington when it isn't hunting season.
Good luck to the OP. Main thing he needs is any caliber bigger than a 223 or 243. Everything else is just personal opinion.
-David
Edgewood, NM
For hunting Elk here in the mountains of New Mexico, I use a 30-06 with a Leupold that has a ballistic reticle because it is fast and I usually don't have time to even laze a target. Hunting Pronghorns in New Mexico, i've got plenty of time to laze and dial my knobs. Longest Pronghorn kill (one shot kill) was 617 yards.
In Texas, I'm usually HARVESTING over a salt lick, wheat field, or corn feeder and i've got plenty of time to laze, dope, dial, and dump. Dialing offers the greatest precision, and the best way to be precise is to dial knobs on a good target scope like a Nightforce or S&B.
I shoot lots of tac matches at NRA Whittington when it isn't hunting season.
Good luck to the OP. Main thing he needs is any caliber bigger than a 223 or 243. Everything else is just personal opinion.
-David
Edgewood, NM
12/2/2011 8:03:10 AM
Originally Posted By frozenny:
I hunt whitetails with everything from .223 through to .375 and all kinds of calibers in between. Here's my take:
If ranges are under your 300 yard mark, its really quite hard to beat any of the "common" whitetail calibers: 7mm-08, .308. 30-06, 270, etc. While we hunters do like to endlessly argue over which is best, in truth there really isn't a lick of real difference between them. You do your part, and that whitetail is instantly transformed into venison. I find any real differences are more due to bullet selection than caliber.
I tend to like smaller, lighter rifles for whitetails. A 24 or 26 inch barrelled long action rifle seems to end up catching on brush and briars in my neck of the woods. I find a shorter, lighter rifle is handier and easier to carry here in New England. For that reason I tend to opt for the short action calibers (7mm-08, .308, etc). I have two favorite calibers: the 260 rem and the 308. The 260 is just about freakin ideal, and it does a wonderful job. Ammo is harder to find though, so its not a great option unless you handload. If you want factory ammo, your best bet is likely the plain jane, nothin fancy .308 winchester.
I've tried a whole raft of firearms. Everyhting from little 16" barrelled carbines to 26" barrelled belted mags. The really short barrels aren't balanced well, and they are LOUD and have terrible muzzle flash in dim light. The longer barrels catch on everything. They might be ideal in open sagebrush country but they suck in deep thick woods. For my territory (mixed everything from thick cedar swamps, to broken fields, and power tranmission lines) the 'perfect' deer rifle is something along the lines of Remmington's Model Seven in 7mm-08 or 308. Mount a compact 1.5-6X scope on it, and load it with relatively fast opening bullets. I like Noslers 165 Ballistic Tips. This combo is small, light and fast enough that its easy to use in the thickest swamp, easy to carry for mile after mile in the mountains of the Adirondack Park, yet has enough range and enough magnification to reach out to moderate distances (your 200-300 yard range) when needed.
As I noted earlier, I have a whole bunch of deer rifles to choose from. Everything from old-school .30-30 and .35 Rems, through to .350 Rem Mag and a .375 Win. I use the other calibers for novelty, but in all honesty the plain old vanilla Model Seven has taken more deer than all the other rifles combined. It's not fancy or exotic, but its damned near the perfect tool for the job.
Forget trajectory tables and the like. Anything in the common 260,7-08, 270, 280, 308, 3006 family is going to shoot damned near identical at ranges 0-300 yards. Sight them to shoot dead on at 200, and your bullet will drop about 8" at 300 yards. Differences between these calibers with common hunting bullets may be plus or minus one inch at 300 yards, not enough to worry about. If you are concerned about stopping power, torn up meat, etc, the caliber is not th most important thing. It's more a matter of bullet choice. Something like a basic no frills 150 jacketed soft point in 308/30-006 (130 in 270, 140 in 7-08) will punch clear through a deer's boiler room, tear everything up, and drop your deer dead after a 30 yard run. Moving to a more frragile bullet like a nosler ballistic tip or hornady SST will result in larger, moer sever wound channels that destroy more meat (but deer drop on thespot). Using a heavy for caliber tough bullet (example: 225 gr nosler partitions in my 350 rem mag) means thee bullet opens slow, drives deep, expends mot of its energy on the hillside behind the deer. The wound channel is surprisingly small (half the size of the 308 Ballistic tip) even though its a medium bore belted magnum. I often find deer run 50,60,80 yards before piling up. When comparing wounding, killing capacity, and meat loss in the common deer calibers the biggest deterrminant is bullet construction, not caliber.
Great options for moderate deer rifles in these calibers are Rem's model 7 and the Savage 10 series. Nothing fancy, moderate price, but completely reliable anf flly functional.
I hunt whitetails with everything from .223 through to .375 and all kinds of calibers in between. Here's my take:
If ranges are under your 300 yard mark, its really quite hard to beat any of the "common" whitetail calibers: 7mm-08, .308. 30-06, 270, etc. While we hunters do like to endlessly argue over which is best, in truth there really isn't a lick of real difference between them. You do your part, and that whitetail is instantly transformed into venison. I find any real differences are more due to bullet selection than caliber.
I tend to like smaller, lighter rifles for whitetails. A 24 or 26 inch barrelled long action rifle seems to end up catching on brush and briars in my neck of the woods. I find a shorter, lighter rifle is handier and easier to carry here in New England. For that reason I tend to opt for the short action calibers (7mm-08, .308, etc). I have two favorite calibers: the 260 rem and the 308. The 260 is just about freakin ideal, and it does a wonderful job. Ammo is harder to find though, so its not a great option unless you handload. If you want factory ammo, your best bet is likely the plain jane, nothin fancy .308 winchester.
I've tried a whole raft of firearms. Everyhting from little 16" barrelled carbines to 26" barrelled belted mags. The really short barrels aren't balanced well, and they are LOUD and have terrible muzzle flash in dim light. The longer barrels catch on everything. They might be ideal in open sagebrush country but they suck in deep thick woods. For my territory (mixed everything from thick cedar swamps, to broken fields, and power tranmission lines) the 'perfect' deer rifle is something along the lines of Remmington's Model Seven in 7mm-08 or 308. Mount a compact 1.5-6X scope on it, and load it with relatively fast opening bullets. I like Noslers 165 Ballistic Tips. This combo is small, light and fast enough that its easy to use in the thickest swamp, easy to carry for mile after mile in the mountains of the Adirondack Park, yet has enough range and enough magnification to reach out to moderate distances (your 200-300 yard range) when needed.
As I noted earlier, I have a whole bunch of deer rifles to choose from. Everything from old-school .30-30 and .35 Rems, through to .350 Rem Mag and a .375 Win. I use the other calibers for novelty, but in all honesty the plain old vanilla Model Seven has taken more deer than all the other rifles combined. It's not fancy or exotic, but its damned near the perfect tool for the job.
Forget trajectory tables and the like. Anything in the common 260,7-08, 270, 280, 308, 3006 family is going to shoot damned near identical at ranges 0-300 yards. Sight them to shoot dead on at 200, and your bullet will drop about 8" at 300 yards. Differences between these calibers with common hunting bullets may be plus or minus one inch at 300 yards, not enough to worry about. If you are concerned about stopping power, torn up meat, etc, the caliber is not th most important thing. It's more a matter of bullet choice. Something like a basic no frills 150 jacketed soft point in 308/30-006 (130 in 270, 140 in 7-08) will punch clear through a deer's boiler room, tear everything up, and drop your deer dead after a 30 yard run. Moving to a more frragile bullet like a nosler ballistic tip or hornady SST will result in larger, moer sever wound channels that destroy more meat (but deer drop on thespot). Using a heavy for caliber tough bullet (example: 225 gr nosler partitions in my 350 rem mag) means thee bullet opens slow, drives deep, expends mot of its energy on the hillside behind the deer. The wound channel is surprisingly small (half the size of the 308 Ballistic tip) even though its a medium bore belted magnum. I often find deer run 50,60,80 yards before piling up. When comparing wounding, killing capacity, and meat loss in the common deer calibers the biggest deterrminant is bullet construction, not caliber.
Great options for moderate deer rifles in these calibers are Rem's model 7 and the Savage 10 series. Nothing fancy, moderate price, but completely reliable anf flly functional.
this man has it right.
12/31/2011 1:08:50 AM
9.3 X 62 Mauser!!
It's the one on the left, next to a .30-06, 8X57, 6.5X55 &.308
It's the one on the left, next to a .30-06, 8X57, 6.5X55 &.308
