Advice on a home 2m/70cm setup

I've been playing around with a mobile radio for a while now and I'd like to get a home based setup. The trouble is, my knowledge base is very limited.

I'm looking for equipment and installation suggestions. I'm planning to use another Yaesu FT-8800 setup exactly like my mobile rig. I know I'll need a home mounted antenna as well as a power supply but otherwise it should be identical to my mobile rig.

I'm looking for suggestions on antennas, wiring, and mounting. I'm also looking to have two locations in the home where I can hook up the radio (I'll probably put it in a box so it can be portable if needed) and have some method of switching the antenna from one location to the other. Basically, I'd like to have a place to hook the radio up in the event of severe weather so that it could be used in the basement where we take shelter but I'd also like it to be usable on the main floor for recreational purposes without going to the basement.

Any assistance is appreciated.

ETA: To be a bit more specific, I've read the HAM 101 thread and will be following the advice given there. I'm just looking for more specifics. For example, it says no structure within 10 feet of the antenna. Does that mean it has to be 10 feet above the roof line or just no other standing structures within a 10 foot radius? Can an antenna be safely mounted to a roof? If so, what is the recommended method? Pics would be great. Also info on recommended antenna models would be good. I don't have to deal with any HOA nonsense, so any antenna that will pass muster with my wife will be fine.

I would run a power supply like a Salmex, just a basic SMPS will work fine. One thing to keep in mind is that during severe weather, enough that you have to take cover in the basement, there is a real possibility that may loose power. I would look at putting a battery in the basement on a float charge, and operate off the battery when needed.

There are a million different options on antenna's, I think you mounting options, restrictions, lightning protection, that is going to dictate the best antenna for your situation. As far as switching the coax for operating location I do not come up with much on that. short of running the coax to the basement with a patch panel bringing it up to the casual operating location. The biggest thing is there will be more losses as the run gets longer.

I highly suggest a backup battery and float charge system in any shack, and I recommend some thing along the line of a Power Gate. It will interface the battery and power supply, float charging the battery when the supply is on, and automatically switch to battery power in case of a power outage. West mountain radio sells them, and there is a ham made option that is much cheaper and well built. I run the Low Loss Power gate, and for a little more than what you will pay for a good charger you can get that. Here

So I think a couple of questions may help with some idea's.

Where is the highest place you can mount the antenna, and do you have restrictions?
How far between the best mounting place and the operating places?
How far between your casual operating location and the basement?

Your edit solve a lot of those questions.

I would look at an antenna with gain, something like a Comet Base antenna http://www.cometantenna.com/products.php?CatID=1&famID=5&childID=4

Mounted to the eave of the roof on a small pole, the antenna should be as high as you can possible get it. For coax you are going to want to use some high quality coax like LMR-400, to cut down on losses, especially at 70cm.

Here is an eve mount http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1079223.html

If you have a chimney you can use a chimney mount and mast to get the antenna higher. There are many options, and other will be along with some good idea;s. There are cheaper options on antenna's also, but they will lack gain, and that gain may make all the difference.

I agree with the LMR-400 coax.

check out the Elk 2M/70CM directional beam antenna. That's what I use at my house mounted approx 30 feet in the air and it's joined to my VX-7R handheld.

Gets good range on the repeaters and hasn't let me down yet.



It's the one in the middle-I "mounted" it in a pre-existing direct tv arm mount.

http://arrowantennas.com/osj/j-pole.html

i run this in my attic. VERY happy with it.

I fully intend to have a battery backup ready to go in the event of a power outage. I have a couple generators that will run the whole house but depending on weather I may not be going outside to hook them up and start them.

I can mount the antenna as high as practical, there are no restrictions. I live in the middle of corn and bean fields and my house is built on the highest point for miles in every direction so I should be in about an ideal spot. To give you an idea, there is a wind farm with the large turbines in the next county north of me and at night, while standing in my yard, I can see the lights on them. They are about 60-70 miles away.

Depending on which end of the house I mount the antenna, I'm looking at maybe 20' of cable from the antenna to the ground floor and then another 10 feet to the basement. If I mount it on the opposite end of the house you would need to add about 60' of coax, which I know would not be ideal. The problem is that my TV antenna is already mounted on the end where I want the radio and I don't know if they will interfere with each other. How big of an issue is this?

Looking at the link you posted for the Comet antennas, what is the major difference between them? Is it just that the larger ones have better gain? As mentioned, I have no restrictions so other than cost I see no reason to go with a smaller antenna. Also, how long a pole can they be mounted to before wind becomes an issue? We are in a really windy location.

The eve mount you linked looks exactly like my TV antenna mount and I was thinking I would do that exact thing on the other end of the house, but as I said that will add about 60' of cable.

ETA: Is the LMR 400 better, worse, or the same as the RG8 recommended in the HAM 101 thread?
ETA2: Nevermind, just found the answer to the cable question in the 101 thread.

LMR-400 is better cable for 70cm frequencies, less losses overall. Not much different in price, and uses the same connectors. It is far superior than RG-8X for UHF frequencies.

You could mount the antenna above the TV antenna, The separation of frequency and difference of vertical to horizontal polarization should have enough isolation, Comet antenna above TV antenna

The size of the antenna and the gain is the main difference, the wind load of a vertical antenna will be minimal, so there should not be a lot of concern as far as wind load. But in any case there should be some specifics on the web.

Here is a link to a loss calculator for coax, Here

100 feet of cable at 440mhz 50 watts, 0 dbi gain antenna
LMR-400: 2.656 db of loss for an ERP of 27.123 watts
RG-8x: 7.925 db loss for an ERP of 8.062 watts

Same as above with the Comet GP-3:
LMR-400 ERP of 142.4 Watts
RG-8X ERP of 42.3 Watts

Now with an Ed Fong J-pole, or the arrow J-pole you will have a good antenna, but no gain. The copper j-pole antenna will be 6db down on 70cm, since it is resonating at a 3rd harmonic, not to mention the SWR will be higher causing more losses in the coax. Like the others have said they are great antenna's I have used J-poles for some time due to antenna restrictions. But as you can see above you cannot beat an antenna with gain. If you can put one up, I would not consider something with less than 3 dbi on 2 meter and 6dbi on 70cm. I can hit far more repeaters on the ground in the mobile than I can with my j-pole at 30 feet, it is all about gain.

Ok, I'm looking at the Comet GP9. I'll need a mast to mount it to (not a problem), some LR 400 cable with an SO-239 connector on one end and a PL 259 on the other to connect to a UHF bulk head connector which I will ground, then another LR 400 cable with PL-259 connectors on both ends to run from the bulk head connector to the basement location for the radio. I'm thinking there I'll have another LR 400 cable with a female PL-259 that I can connect to the first cable that runs back upstairs with a PL-259. So the shortest run is to the basement for emergencies and then a bit more length to the ground floor for non-emergency use.

Am I thinking on the right lines? I'm fuzzy on the connectors so correct me if I'm wrong.

i have a GP9 and HOLY JESUS its a tall ass antenna. the good thing is, you will be able to talk 50 miles away with a HT even if the antenna is mounted only 10ft above the ground. LOL.

GP 9 is good,( I run that on the shack), and I have an 8800/ GP6 combo on the house station.

If money is tight the GP 6 will do you just fine also.

Over all, you are on the right track.

Do I have the right idea for connectors? That's the part I'm least familiar with.

+1.

VERY nice antenna for the money.

After reading comments here, I purchased an Ed Fong J pole (inside PVC) mounted near the fascia of my roof - about 12 feet up. No problem hitting multiple repeaters in Austin with 5W.

LMR-400 or (LMR-400UF if using a rotating antenna).

I used a Cushcraft AR-270B for many years with great results.

Now using a Hustler G7 for 2m (wanted a more headroom now with amp) and an ELK 2/440L5.

i checked into a net last night on a 2m repeater 62 miles away with it on my ft-897. i am good with that.

Here is a GP-15 for sale here http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?346266-FS-FT-Comet-GP-15

I built a Copper Cactus antenna and have had good results with it.
It's basically just a J-pole made out of copper pipe, but it was fun to build.

Google "copper cactus antenna"

I think the GP-9 is overkill. The 6 or even the 3 work great or the like diamond product. I would spend the saved money on the LMR400. A vent mount with 10' of mast works great as well.

I'm new to this so what makes it overkill? The price difference is only $50 at HRO, is the difference in gain not worth the extra $50?

The difference in gain is marginal, the overall height is larger, and of course it costs more. But if the height and difference in cost are not an issue I would go for it.

i got my GP9 and 60ft of coax for it for $35 so it was hard to pass up.

Since it looks like I'll be spending just over a grand after I get the radio, power supply, antenna, coax, mount, and connectors the $50 doesn't seem like much if I'll get better performance. As stated earlier, the height is not an issue and I'm hoping to hit some repeaters at a major metropolitan area about 60 miles south of here, so my thought is to start with the better antenna. If it doesn't work, then I know it just isn't going to happen but if I get a smaller antenna and it doesn't work, I know I'll end up getting the bigger one later to try it.

Buy once cry once right?

mylt1: I'll give you $50...

Ok, here's what I'm currently looking at:

Yaesu FT-8800
Samlex SEC1223 20 amp power supply
60ft of LRM-400 UltraFlex (gonna mount on the mast with my TV antenna and it has a rotor, so going with the ultra flex)
Comet GP-9 dual band antenna
10-Pack L-Com AUM-1402 PL-259 Connectors
LP Dual Female Bulk Head adaptor

What I'm trying to decide is how best to ground it. My house is all brick, the antenna will be mounted to my eave about 25' off the ground. The TV antenna cable goes through above the brick into the attic, which would be the easiest way to run the radio cable, but I'm not sure what my grounding options would be. If I run it down the outside and use the bulk head connector (recommended in the HAM 101 thread) I would then have to drill through the brick. I'd like to avoid that, but will do so if necessary.

Once in the basement, I'll have the end of the antenna from the roof and then have a second run of cable from there to the upstairs location (another 12 feet max) and use a bulk head adaptor to patch the cables. Will something like that work?

Am I missing anything? Will that power supply work for my application or is there a better option? Are those good connectors? I don't want to get good cable and a good antenna and screw it up with cheap connectors.

It has more unsupported wind load, it is more visable and has one more joint to collect ice and fail. IMHO.

That is very true, another word of advice, treat a power supply like you would a gun safe! Buy bigger than you need, because at some point you will need more power.

Altair,

Spend the money on a good, HIGH antenna if you have it. The height comment is important, though. You have geography working for you, but I'd also say real world experience is the guys I know with higher mounts *consistently* do better with their contacts. I't's worth spending some money to get the antenna up to 30' - 60' if you have it, too. I got a 40' tower free just by looking around for it. I don't have the upper sections up and am only at 20', but I bought the LMR400 cable to allow for it.

We live in a very rural area but are blessed with some good repeaters (one is 600' higher than most of the local terrain) . . . still, I can't reach into our closest large city without raising the tower. The earth's curvature is only reliably overcome with more antenna height.

Samlex makes a good switching power supply...But it don't work too good when the AC power's out.

Have you considered using a sealed deep-cycle battery as your power supply, connected to a small trickle charger?

There are plenty of AGM and gelled-electrolyte trolling motor and "Marine/RV" deep-cycle batteries available on the market for reasonable money.

For example, the Bass Pro chain sells a nice line of AGM batteries under the "XPS Power Series" brand. They're made by Deka/East Penn - good stuff.



The nice thing about this approach is that the battery can also be used for powering other non-ham devices during an emergency.

I'm actually looking at either keeping a battery as a backup or using something like the Powergate. I will certainly have the capability of switching to battery if the need arises but I must admit, I had not considered just using a battery instead of a power supply.

and they are cheaper than a power supply in most cases.

If you like BIG try this: PD-620

We pulled it off the Herman Peak repeater tower several years ago and I bought it and put it up at the house for the packet node.
I brought it with me to NM, we do have some distances to cover here on the cap. When (ever) we get permanently situated I'll put it up again, it is a darn good antenna. Sometime before then I need to find the correct product to renew the gel coat, it has seen some weather.

what a fantastic idea. I am also planning a home vhf station and was also going the power supply route. This is a much better idea. Thanks.

I am looking at a diamond x510 myself. $200, lots of omni gain. 17 feet tall IIRC.

That's what I did. I got the X510HDN that comes with an N-connector. Might as well get the biggest one. There's plenty of clearance above it right?

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