Archived Posts » 60,595,333
random wire install now considering new carolina windom
3/4/2012 4:06:45 PM
I've been reading about these and how it's not *really* random and this is what I have to work with:
I'm willing take PVC pipe and strap it to the palm trees for providing end supports to the wire.
How do I (details man, details, like down to what brand of coax
) get it into the shack/transciever. The rig I'm planning for is an 857D.
Right now I'm reading thru the ARRL antenna handbook, 21st.
eta: that middle palm tree might be in just the right place
I'm willing take PVC pipe and strap it to the palm trees for providing end supports to the wire.
How do I (details man, details, like down to what brand of coax
) get it into the shack/transciever. The rig I'm planning for is an 857D.
Right now I'm reading thru the ARRL antenna handbook, 21st.
eta: that middle palm tree might be in just the right place
3/4/2012 4:44:06 PM
What type of antenna tuner/match do you have?
3/4/2012 4:55:29 PM
I'm using a 75' long "random" wire antenna. With it I've be able to make PSK31 contacts as far away as Russia.
The 75' of 14 gauge wire is connected to the antenna post on a LDG 4:1 balun. The other post is connected to
a ground rod. The end of the wire is suspended from a pine tree with a insulator and some rope that I had lying
around. The other end with the balun is suspended from the side of my 48' tower with a pair of bungee cords.
The balun is connected to the ground rod with some steel electric fence wire. A couple of weeks after I put the
antenna up, I connected another piece of electric fence wire to the grounding rod and ran it out approx. 81 feet
to act as a counterpoise. This I just have lying on top of the ground.
So far I've been able to make contacts on 160M, 80M, 40M, 20M, 17M, 15M, and 10M.
My station is a Yaesu FT-857D with a LDG YT-100 tuner. I'm feeding the antenna with some RG-8X coax.
Vulcan94
The 75' of 14 gauge wire is connected to the antenna post on a LDG 4:1 balun. The other post is connected to
a ground rod. The end of the wire is suspended from a pine tree with a insulator and some rope that I had lying
around. The other end with the balun is suspended from the side of my 48' tower with a pair of bungee cords.
The balun is connected to the ground rod with some steel electric fence wire. A couple of weeks after I put the
antenna up, I connected another piece of electric fence wire to the grounding rod and ran it out approx. 81 feet
to act as a counterpoise. This I just have lying on top of the ground.
So far I've been able to make contacts on 160M, 80M, 40M, 20M, 17M, 15M, and 10M.
My station is a Yaesu FT-857D with a LDG YT-100 tuner. I'm feeding the antenna with some RG-8X coax.
Vulcan94
3/4/2012 5:22:33 PM
Originally Posted By pcsutton:
What type of antenna tuner/match do you have?
What type of antenna tuner/match do you have?
none, but, based on eham, I've been looking at the MFJ-16010
3/4/2012 7:55:21 PM
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
3/4/2012 8:03:07 PM
Should be able to work 40M and shorter with that.
3/4/2012 9:25:56 PM
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
SGC-211 ?
3/4/2012 9:39:40 PM
That reminds me of my Inverted-L for 160. Mine is about 127' long and goes up about 27' and then 100' horizontal for the rest. It has a great SNR and receives weak DX better than my vertical on the upper HF bands most of the time.
ETA: Need more info about the feed point...
ETA: Need more info about the feed point...
3/4/2012 9:45:02 PM
69' will do 80M I hope (though will benefit much from a good ground/counterpoise).
I'll second the suggestion of a SGC type coupler. Magic boxes, made for just that sort of antenna!
I'll second the suggestion of a SGC type coupler. Magic boxes, made for just that sort of antenna!
3/4/2012 9:50:30 PM
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
I'm using a 75' long "random" wire antenna. With it I've be able to make PSK31 contacts as far away as Russia.
The 75' of 14 gauge wire is connected to the antenna post on a LDG 4:1 balun. The other post is connected to
a ground rod. The end of the wire is suspended from a pine tree with a insulator and some rope that I had lying
around. The other end with the balun is suspended from the side of my 48' tower with a pair of bungee cords.
The balun is connected to the ground rod with some steel electric fence wire. A couple of weeks after I put the
antenna up, I connected another piece of electric fence wire to the grounding rod and ran it out approx. 81 feet
to act as a counterpoise. This I just have lying on top of the ground.
So far I've been able to make contacts on 160M, 80M, 40M, 20M, 17M, 15M, and 10M.
My station is a Yaesu FT-857D with a LDG YT-100 tuner. I'm feeding the antenna with some RG-8X coax.
Vulcan94
I'm using a 75' long "random" wire antenna. With it I've be able to make PSK31 contacts as far away as Russia.
The 75' of 14 gauge wire is connected to the antenna post on a LDG 4:1 balun. The other post is connected to
a ground rod. The end of the wire is suspended from a pine tree with a insulator and some rope that I had lying
around. The other end with the balun is suspended from the side of my 48' tower with a pair of bungee cords.
The balun is connected to the ground rod with some steel electric fence wire. A couple of weeks after I put the
antenna up, I connected another piece of electric fence wire to the grounding rod and ran it out approx. 81 feet
to act as a counterpoise. This I just have lying on top of the ground.
So far I've been able to make contacts on 160M, 80M, 40M, 20M, 17M, 15M, and 10M.
My station is a Yaesu FT-857D with a LDG YT-100 tuner. I'm feeding the antenna with some RG-8X coax.
Vulcan94
Imitation is the most sincere form of Flattery
I'm virtually doin' the exact same thing (different rig TS50 and tuner LDG Z100)
It's worked well for me, stupid simple way to get on HF! Don't over think it!
3/4/2012 11:52:04 PM
Originally Posted By SCWolverine:
Imitation is the most sincere form of Flattery
I'm virtually doin' the exact same thing (different rig TS50 and tuner LDG Z100)
It's worked well for me, stupid simple way to get on HF! Don't over think it!
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
I'm using a 75' long "random" wire antenna. With it I've be able to make PSK31 contacts as far away as Russia.
The 75' of 14 gauge wire is connected to the antenna post on a LDG 4:1 balun. The other post is connected to
a ground rod. The end of the wire is suspended from a pine tree with a insulator and some rope that I had lying
around. The other end with the balun is suspended from the side of my 48' tower with a pair of bungee cords.
The balun is connected to the ground rod with some steel electric fence wire. A couple of weeks after I put the
antenna up, I connected another piece of electric fence wire to the grounding rod and ran it out approx. 81 feet
to act as a counterpoise. This I just have lying on top of the ground.
So far I've been able to make contacts on 160M, 80M, 40M, 20M, 17M, 15M, and 10M.
My station is a Yaesu FT-857D with a LDG YT-100 tuner. I'm feeding the antenna with some RG-8X coax.
Vulcan94
I'm using a 75' long "random" wire antenna. With it I've be able to make PSK31 contacts as far away as Russia.
The 75' of 14 gauge wire is connected to the antenna post on a LDG 4:1 balun. The other post is connected to
a ground rod. The end of the wire is suspended from a pine tree with a insulator and some rope that I had lying
around. The other end with the balun is suspended from the side of my 48' tower with a pair of bungee cords.
The balun is connected to the ground rod with some steel electric fence wire. A couple of weeks after I put the
antenna up, I connected another piece of electric fence wire to the grounding rod and ran it out approx. 81 feet
to act as a counterpoise. This I just have lying on top of the ground.
So far I've been able to make contacts on 160M, 80M, 40M, 20M, 17M, 15M, and 10M.
My station is a Yaesu FT-857D with a LDG YT-100 tuner. I'm feeding the antenna with some RG-8X coax.
Vulcan94
Imitation is the most sincere form of Flattery
I'm virtually doin' the exact same thing (different rig TS50 and tuner LDG Z100)
It's worked well for me, stupid simple way to get on HF! Don't over think it!
Count me in on this as well. 72' end fed antenna going from my chimney to a tree in the back. Green paracord runs from the antenna, through a pulley attached to a tree, terminating at a brick about 3 feet above the ground. The weight of the brick keeps the line taught, and allows for movement of the tree. The antenna is grounded via an 8' ground rod, with a 80 something foot counterpoise, as well as connecting to a chain link fence that runs around the yard.
with the antenna at only 25 feet, I have hit Russia, Cuba and all of South America. This is on a IC-718 with a LDG Z-11 Pro tuner.
3/5/2012 12:09:43 AM
Originally Posted By danpass:
SGC-211 ?
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
SGC-211 ?
Any SGC coupler, but an SG-230 is an amazing unit. I have other antenna tuners...LDG, MFJ, and Palstar (the palstar is for my lader line fed dipole), but none of them offer the versatility and ease of use that the SGC units do.
SGC units excel at end fed wires and loops. With a balanced dipole or loop, they dont even need grounding.
Seriously, buy once, cry once.
3/5/2012 9:05:00 AM
Originally Posted By danpass:
SGC-211 ?
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
You may be better off with a SGC coupler out at the antenna. Feed it with RG8X.
SGC-211 ?
I have been looking at the SGC 239, but I am going to put it in an EMCOMM type box. The SGC 237? is the same unit in it's own weatherproof enclosure. You could mount the unit at the antenna feedpoint and use a small 12v battery and solar panel to power it.
3/5/2012 9:34:37 AM
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
Looks like 58 feet.
3/5/2012 10:00:36 AM
Originally Posted By piccolo:
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
3/5/2012 10:20:15 PM
Originally Posted By danpass:
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
Originally Posted By piccolo:
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
I think that whatever length that you choose, you will be surprised as to how well that it will work.
I know I was.
Thxs SCWolverine!
Vulcan94
3/6/2012 7:26:00 AM
Is it really random? (archived thread)
The easiest way to talk...(archived thread)
while a compromise (aren't all antennas?) it got me on the air....
Vulcan94
The easiest way to talk...(archived thread)
while a compromise (aren't all antennas?) it got me on the air....
Vulcan94 3/6/2012 8:49:07 AM
Originally Posted By SCWolverine:
Is it really random? (archived thread)
The easiest way to talk...(archived thread)
while a compromise (aren't all antennas?) it got me on the air....
Vulcan94
Is it really random? (archived thread)
The easiest way to talk...(archived thread)
while a compromise (aren't all antennas?) it got me on the air....
Vulcan94 sheesh ............... is everything archived? nothing current?
3/6/2012 8:56:35 AM
the majik of the Random Wire is ancient knowledge
ETA: in all seriousness; it's really such an easy proposition, there's not much to add. I detail mine in one of the old post, let me know if I can help further. I royally screwed up my photo hosting account, so I'll try to get the pics back up soon.
SCW
ETA: in all seriousness; it's really such an easy proposition, there's not much to add. I detail mine in one of the old post, let me know if I can help further. I royally screwed up my photo hosting account, so I'll try to get the pics back up soon.
SCW
3/6/2012 8:13:26 PM
Originally Posted By danpass:
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
Originally Posted By piccolo:
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
for example:
http://www.w0ipl.net/ECom/NVIS/random-l.htm
Most easily used lengths are: 63', 74' and 111.5'. 89' is omitted because it would be within about one foot in length of two bands on either side of it.
If you want to cover all of every band with minimum loading problems (that does not imply it will be perfect - only that it should load) 74' is your winner.
If you want to cover all of every band with minimum loading problems (that does not imply it will be perfect - only that it should load) 74' is your winner.
58 "works", now 63 on this site and he recommends 74.
Well I have 69 convenient feet (oriented N-S) to work with so either 58 or 63 should do but if 74 is perfect then what? Artificial palm tree made of PVC?
(no HOA stuff that I know of, I like the subdued look of 'invisible' tech in a permanent environment)3/6/2012 8:38:51 PM
I have a random wire. It goes out from the balun at the eave to a tree maybe 30' away. Then it turns left and shoots across the yard. Not sure how long it is. I just used what was left on a spool. I've talked all over on it.
3/6/2012 8:53:35 PM
Originally Posted By danpass:
for example:
http://www.w0ipl.net/ECom/NVIS/random-l.htm
58 "works", now 63 on this site and he recommends 74.
Well I have 69 convenient feet (oriented N-S) to work with so either 58 or 63 should do but if 74 is perfect then what? Artificial palm tree made of PVC? (no HOA stuff that I know of, I like the subdued look of 'invisible' tech in a permanent environment)
Originally Posted By danpass:
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
Originally Posted By piccolo:
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
Looks like 58 feet.
I actually found that the other night. Along with many other sites.
Despite their "math" no two people seem to agree that "58 is good, as is 73, as is 89, as is ............"
for example:
http://www.w0ipl.net/ECom/NVIS/random-l.htm
Most easily used lengths are: 63', 74' and 111.5'. 89' is omitted because it would be within about one foot in length of two bands on either side of it.
If you want to cover all of every band with minimum loading problems (that does not imply it will be perfect - only that it should load) 74' is your winner.
If you want to cover all of every band with minimum loading problems (that does not imply it will be perfect - only that it should load) 74' is your winner.
58 "works", now 63 on this site and he recommends 74.
Well I have 69 convenient feet (oriented N-S) to work with so either 58 or 63 should do but if 74 is perfect then what? Artificial palm tree made of PVC?
(no HOA stuff that I know of, I like the subdued look of 'invisible' tech in a permanent environment)If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
3/6/2012 9:33:44 PM
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
about 5ft beyond the 15ft high tree is a metal fence. But its only 50" high.
I'm not sure how useful even 15ft is lol
3/6/2012 9:43:13 PM
Originally Posted By danpass:
about 5ft beyond the 15ft high tree is a metal fence. But its only 50" high.
I'm not sure how useful even 15ft is lol
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
about 5ft beyond the 15ft high tree is a metal fence. But its only 50" high.
I'm not sure how useful even 15ft is lol
You could use the fence as a counterpoise if you were using an antenna coupler.
3/7/2012 4:56:14 PM
Originally Posted By danpass:
about 5ft beyond the 15ft high tree is a metal fence. But its only 50" high.
I'm not sure how useful even 15ft is lol
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
If it was possible, I would just have one end of the 74' version make a right turn and tie it off to whatever the other end of that clothesline is tied to. That way you could give 74' a try and still
be able to go to 63' if you have to. There are hams that have to make due with an attic antenna that are zigzagged back and forth so it will fit. I've heard that they work well considering their
limitations.
Vulcan94
about 5ft beyond the 15ft high tree is a metal fence. But its only 50" high.
I'm not sure how useful even 15ft is lol
At the highest point, my antenna is only between 15 to 20 feet from the ground. Yet, I've be able to make contacts with the Czech Republic, France, Estonia, Finland, Russia, Germany, Italy, and others. Most of those were on 15M, although I did get a contact to a French station on 80M. The way I understand things with my antenna that close to the ground it should act as a NVIS antenna on 80M. You should do fine at 15 feet. At least you will be able to get on the air.
Vulcan94
3/10/2012 9:49:24 PM
new carolina windom?
3/10/2012 10:31:38 PM
I have this OCF dipole up here. It's in an inverted vee configuration with the apex at 33ft and the ends at about 10 feet. I feed it with RG-213. I use a Rohn telescoping mast for the center support.
How high are you willing to go with the PVC pipe "tree extension"?
How high are you willing to go with the PVC pipe "tree extension"?
3/11/2012 12:15:51 AM
Originally Posted By danpass:
new carolina windom?
new carolina windom?
For 40 m on up you will need overall length of 66'. If a plain dipole, you still need overall 66' for 40 meters.
If you do a 22' + 44' (33%-67% split) with 4:1 balun, you will be able to do, with a tuner, 40, 20, 17, 12, 10 and 6 meters. No 15 meters, as the feedpoint falls exactly on the high impedance node for 15 m. Our club's 66' OCFD has this 22' + 44' split, and has 3:1 SWR on 17 meters, not workable on 15 m. 3:1 on 17 meters is easily correctable with a tuner.
If you do a 25' + 41' (38%-62% split) with 4:1 balun, you will be able to do 15 meters, and hopefully 17 meters both with a tuner.
Use a 4:1 CURRENT balun.
A 66' OCFD, or dipole, even with a great tuner will not work 80/75 meters.
3/13/2012 3:57:09 PM
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
For 40 m on up you will need overall length of 66'. If a plain dipole, you still need overall 66' for 40 meters.
If you do a 22' + 44' (33%-67% split) with 4:1 balun, you will be able to do, with a tuner, 40, 20, 17, 12, 10 and 6 meters. No 15 meters, as the feedpoint falls exactly on the high impedance node for 15 m. Our club's 66' OCFD has this 22' + 44' split, and has 3:1 SWR on 17 meters, not workable on 15 m. 3:1 on 17 meters is easily correctable with a tuner.
If you do a 25' + 41' (38%-62% split) with 4:1 balun, you will be able to do 15 meters, and hopefully 17 meters both with a tuner.
Use a 4:1 CURRENT balun.
A 66' OCFD, or dipole, even with a great tuner will not work 80/75 meters.
Originally Posted By danpass:
new carolina windom?
new carolina windom?
For 40 m on up you will need overall length of 66'. If a plain dipole, you still need overall 66' for 40 meters.
If you do a 22' + 44' (33%-67% split) with 4:1 balun, you will be able to do, with a tuner, 40, 20, 17, 12, 10 and 6 meters. No 15 meters, as the feedpoint falls exactly on the high impedance node for 15 m. Our club's 66' OCFD has this 22' + 44' split, and has 3:1 SWR on 17 meters, not workable on 15 m. 3:1 on 17 meters is easily correctable with a tuner.
If you do a 25' + 41' (38%-62% split) with 4:1 balun, you will be able to do 15 meters, and hopefully 17 meters both with a tuner.
Use a 4:1 CURRENT balun.
A 66' OCFD, or dipole, even with a great tuner will not work 80/75 meters.
Listen to A_Free_Man. He's the Arfcom Guru of the OCFD.
Vulcan94
