How much would you be willing to pay for an HF manpack rig?

The entire set-up.

20 watts, MilSpec, AM/USB/LSB/CW

A complete kit, battery, rig, hand/headset, antenna.

Built in tuner.

A pretty much self-contained bug-out rig.

Foreign manufacture.

I actually have something in mind as I post this. Do NOT get your hopes up.

How much was the eham reviewed rig? $6,000?






eta: still needs solar panel and charge controller

$1200-1400 Maybe $1500. The KX3 may not be self contained or push 20w but it would be my next choice.

How about it include a USB port for rig control and an internal sound card capability a la the Icom 7200? It's only like 3 or 4 IC's to do that. That would significantly lower the burden for manpack digital.

KISS


ETA: this:




or this

Your definition of simple and mine are different.

3 chips and a connector built in is a hell of a lot simpler than gluing on another box and a bunch of cables.

When you are running 20W with a crappy piece of wire, digital makes all the difference. If I can leave the interface and microphone at home then I have the space for a tiny netbook.

Something you could think about (what I have thought about doing with the MFJ SSB 20m rig) is mounting a usb sound card inside the rig and solder the mic and audio out into the back of the mic jack. It would only require soldiering 4 wires and mounting a thumdrive style sound card inside the case. Grag a female chasis mount USB plug and mount it to the case and hook it up to the sound card. 1 hour, $20 later you now have a usb sound input to a rig.

USB control would almost be a must at my price point of anything over $1000. You have some stiff compition with the KX3 however I would really like an internal battery and tuner. But if it can come in at a $500 price point a basic SSB rig with built in tuner and battery that puts out 20w.... Well it would be on order.

So my new answer to the OP is

> $1000 it needs to have all the stuff you listed plus the computer control and input. And I would really like to get a 6m and/or 2m but not a deal breaker
< $600 a few less bells still 10-80m 20w SSB (no AM) built in tuner and batt.

For one thing what I am doing is scouring the planet for something that is already built that is available at a reasonable cost.

This generally means either an over run,clearance, industrial or military surplus, or the leftovers of some sort after an upgrade.

In short there is really not likely you are going to get a whole lot of choices. Generally it will not have a whole lot of really cool ham data ports because the units are not set up specifically for hams.

Right now as it sits I have missed a couple of servicable Codans being sold off by a few months. Right now I am yakking with someone that is considering importing some Chinese rigs that look pretty good that I MIGHT be able to score for a damned good price.

Incidentally the Chinese rigs have had good reports from a couple of bloggers. The kits are supposidly complete except that the batteries have been removed from the boxes for storage.

The only USGI stuff I have located is over 4-5K unless it is older than I am.

Unless you are willing to cough up 6K and up you are pretty much going to have to take what you can get.

AR Jedi hit the nail on the head when he said I was looking for a 10K set for under a grand. Still, they are out there if you turn over the right rock.

ar-jedi

http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_47_CFR_Part_15

ar-jedi

Sounds like another ARFCOM group buy fairytale story.

Likely ending. But for the past couple of days I have searched to kill time.

Incidentally, an old high school classmate that made good told me that a while back the outfit he works for replaced some portable HF rigs with some kind of sattelite phone. They just sold off 4 lightly used portable HF rigs last December. He called them 'codings' (I figure they were Codans). Had he known I could have used them he could have put the fix in (snagged them through some 'employees get first crack at disposal items' program.) for peanuts.

Another guy I swapped emails with said he was thinking of trying to import a bunch of Chinese Army manpacks. Apparently Ar Jedi thinks he won't be able to.

It's been a good way of keeping myself entertained and maybe I can find something. Who knows?

i did not state that at all.

in the USA, in order to offer for sale an imported RF-emitting device you must follow the following process:
http://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=30744&switch=P

importing and then selling RF-emitting equipment in the USA without going through the FCC processes is a sure route to getting unwanted interest from The Man.

ar-jedi

QMac Back pack used


Mind you it is 3490 Aus Dollars.

3800 USD figure a little over 4K after shipping. I'll take two, please.

Today I'll be busy so the search isn't going to continue.

The Chinese rigs. The person importing them is in the UK and that adds another can of worms to the equation and that is shipping which is horrendous. Any Clansman owners in the US can vouch for that.

I'm going to continue to persue this later on and I will keep you posted.

It is a slow process of turning over rocks one at a time but it is fun.

There is a PRC-174 on eBay (closing soon) for $740, delivered, from Israel. I have my doubts, though.

I'll also keep you posted in what the Youkits guy has to say next week (if he gets back to me)

Picc, what about getting one of the TJ4A's and building a pack rig instead of using the privided inclosure? You could use a pack frame and have a metal shop custom bend a case to fit the frame and radio parts and also bend a battery box that is either build in or make it a separate compartment. ysing the frame you could install an antenna mount for a whip style anrenna. you could also install an antenna tuner in the same inclosure.that setup could be done for well under $1k. Just a thought.

Possible. When i get more time I will get back to this.

Kenwood TK-90 What about this rig?
It is not type accepted, but many Army and Air Force MARS guys have them. Its has an internal tuner and some other neat options. It is MILSPEC
rated, but it might not be quite what you are looking for.

Bob,

This whole idea has morphed. It started when I got curious to see if I could find a better rig than the 320 for a reasonable price (practically speaking I can't)

Then I recall Sarge wondering how to play radio from a motel when on business.

I moved from what I was looking for to try and see if there was anything out there reasonable that a guy could snag that would enable him to set up shop anywhere when he felt like it. Got a Saturday afternoon? Take the kids out hilltopping.

Business trip in June when the days are long? Nothing to do afteer 1600 but drink at a motel? Set the rig up on a picnic bench until dark.

SHTF? Here's the rig.

Hunting camp? Toss the rig in the pickup.

Rich people got it made. They can afford a new Codan.

I scoured the surplus(military and industrial)/used/clearance markets to see if anything reasonable was out there.

I did find a Vertex 1210 kit with everything but that was $1600.

I wanted to keep the price affordable and the product rugged enough to take outside in a nice, neat package.

I have not given up yet, something may still pop up.

I'll keep this in the back of my mind for quite a while

http://wa3wsj.homestead.com/HF-Pack.html

ar-jedi

ps also see this neat battery setup,
http://wa3wsj.homestead.com/Li-ion_Batteries_have_Arrived.pdf
and
http://www.batteryspace.com/waterbottleli-ion18650battery148v72ah10656wh70aratesmartchargerforhalogenlight.aspx

I find this very amusing as I was looking at Alice frames online earlier today

almost exactly what i was talking about earlier. just build a custom enclosure to fit the pack so its weather proof and BAM, manpack radio.

True enough.

(Still I will admit I had a little fun chasing things.)

In some instances a lot of the guys have about all they need to do thid...or most of it, anyway.

an 857D setup, just for brainstorming:

if thats the video i think it is i was just comimg back here to post it. i cant view it on my tablet but just in case here is the video im talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nph5B3CBvno&feature=youtube_gdata_player

That looks like a VERY well made rig.

I would be very interested.

And if it helps with your quest, I just purchased half a connex of ALICE pack frames with straps and have the shelves for them....

Just so happens I know of a guy in Pittsburgh that might be interester in one. How much, delivered?

Now I don't want a worn out piece of junk that Willie and Joe used to slog across Europe with.

I want me one that used by a little old Wac to carry pies to the church bake sale once a week.

I am not feeling the love lol

I have better than that- these came from the Air Force!

But seriously, these things are mint. I will have there here in a week or so.

Keep me posted.

Seriously?

Are you bringing a gas generator in your backpack as well?

Picc, there's a subhobby in ham radio of operating man-portable. I looked into it when I set up my pelican kit in the other thread, and decided it wasn't for me due to all the space it takes up in a backpack. But it's out there.

The barrier to hotel operation would be an antenna. Some guys have some good tips on this, including green beret communication specialists who used to operate HF in such conditions. One approach was to reserve a relatively high room and then drop a tuned random wire antenna out the window. Another would run that same antenna horizontally to a nearby tree via the age old standby of a rock.

If you increased my pelican case size by one model, you could easily fit such an antenna into it, plus anything else I stuff into the antenna bag. That would be a self-contained HF radio all-in-one case, but it'd be battery and solar vs AC. You'd probably want two batteries and an AC charger for hotel operation. Charge one while using the other. AC battery charger doesn't require the size and weight of a high output filtered AC power supply.

Hilltop operation is a separate thing as is obvious, you probably don't want to drag 20 pounds of batteries up a hill. At that point, you either have to accept short-period operation with long-period recharging cycles, or QRP operation. Most of the hilltop guys and girls (some of the best hilltop HF youtube videos are by women) go the QRP route, sometimes with random-wire/rock, sometimes with buddipoles or custom antennas.

The tiny Elecraft QRP morse-only rig was popular for that. It and a random wire antenna could fit in a box smaller than the average hardcover book. And it ran on 6 (or was it 8?) AA cells in an internal case. But that's a lot of compromises.

The new Elecraft KX3 looks very promising for portable operation.

And, speaking of rigs, Yaesu actually sells a manpack backpack for their 817. It's probably on their product accessories page. The 817's a popular rig for this purpose, as you can imagine. QRP, full voice mode, small, and uses internal batteries. But it's bigger than a KX3 and I think it draws more power.

My solution in the other thread was to throw a full-power IC-706IIG into a small custom-cut pelican case along with an 8 Ah SLA battery, solar panel and charge controller, simple L-shaped UHF/VHF antenna, and wiring, and operate with a buddipole carried in a separate bag. It's a heavy damned load for hiking, I think it's 20 pounds if it's an ounce, but it's self-contained, waterproof, full-power and full-mode, and doesn't chew up backpack space.

BUT, beyond its obvious drawbacks is a critical one for your purposes: I can't actually operate it portable. I have to find a flat surface and set up shop.

Actual manpack rigs like the Yaesu thing allow you to operate while walking around. Setting aside pack construction, the trickiest part with that is antenna design and mounting. Walking through the woods with a ten foot antenna running up from your pack takes a lot of work.

But it can be done, and people do it. Just listen for people identifying themselves as "KE5CDL operating portable", or whatever, on HF bands. Technically my rig qualifies for that, but it's usually the manpack folks you're hearing.

Also in a SHTF scenario who is going to answer you if you are the only one out there running digital?

FWIW Most hams have at least SOME SSB and/or CW capabilities.

I will, listen for me due west.

edit: in all seriousness, shtf preps led me to digital communications for this very reason. A single person could hump an 817, solar panel, netbook, and rigblaster/signalink pretty easily. A small solar setup at a home could easily run for days with a boat battery, inverter, and 80 watt solar panel, and small laptop/netbook.

Picc, check my post update above, I added a lot.

Digital guys, shrug, use what you want. But doubling your carry weight and power consumption just to add one operating mode is, to me, not in the spirit of a low-profile manpack rig. The idea is to retain HF capabilities while zeroing out, as much as possible, weight, volume, and fragility. It's not to add all three in the form of a brand new failure point.

Additionally, nobody on earth is going to be operating digital via netbook while walking around. So that can't possibly be manpack unless you're doing that and only that, or using some extremely low-overhead digital interface I don't know about.

The original digital mode was morse, and the smallest rigs are morse-only. Interestingly, the Elecraft KX1 morse-only pocket rig can be operated blind. It can tell you your freq and whatever in morse. This is obviously a big advantage for blind operators, but might also be useful in a manpack rig as you don't have to look at the display to make changes. So it could be in a special pocket or maybe a sternum mount or something.

There are actually some designs available for a homemade morse HF QRP rig that fits in an altoids can.

This is the kit I mention in the long post above:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/654395_Current_emergency_kit__lots_of_pics.html

My norcal 40a can be operated blind. It spits out the frequency in morse.


My goal isn't to have a pedestrian mobile manpack, but something for portable ops. I don't see it as introducing another failure point, but adding a feature. In an emergency, you could always ditch the computer setup and just go with the rig and a mic for ssb. Throw in a key and you have another mode. The nice thing about running digital modes is that you can reduce the size of your equipment. instead of carrying a 20w or 100w rig, you can carry a 5w one and smaller batteries. There's always a compromise. Also, you can negate some of the effects of weight by going with lighter wire antennas and high tech batteries. foldable/rollable cig solar panels can also be used instead of monocrystaline/polycrystaline designs..

edit: btw, i'm a big fan of lifepo4 batteries for their weight savings. you can operate for a much longer duration with battery that has a 20ah capacity that weighs the same as a 10ah sla, but the cost is immense in comparison. also, my rigblaster isn't really that heavy. it might weigh an once or two once i cut down the wires. I don't need 10ft to go from my rig to my netbook.

The KX3 will do digital without a PC. I looked into the Chameleon antennas but I am hard pressed humping tall antennas and 15 to 30 feet of wire trailing me through the woods. The ground plane wire could be a major hinderence.


ETA plus it is only 10 watts. 20 watts would make a major difference when working with marginal antenna setup. Tuner/Antenna create additional losses in output.

Unless your callling in a fire mission from 3 states away I dont see the entire point of full operation while man packed. I cant think of very many SHTF moments when you would be needing to run through the woods changing freqs and throwing out code. I do see the capability of having something that is easily portable, self contained and able to be ready at a moments notice.

The YouKits rig is really a nice set up IMO. I think an alice frame and a little larger case (HVAC like a few have said) would be great. Find a way to add a LDG one touch tuner and you would be off an running.

I know I have said before that I would like to have some sort of VHF range but I just read a QST article from way back about 2m FM vs 10m SSB and it makes a very good case as for how a 10m ground wave is just as good as 2m FM and plus you can get a skywave.

I think digital would be a great set up as well. With a small Linux distro and FLDIGI set up on a netbook you could set it to look for keywords like a few on here do for the ARFCOM digi net. Yes it does take a little power but it has a built in battery as well. My HP quad core with Windoz 7 gets about 5-6 hours in standby.

Either way it needs to be OD

I have my hf antennas, 817, power pack, and amplifier in a Nikon camera case. It doesn't get any more discreet than that.

Yep. And If the SHTF locally LOTS of people are going to answer me outside that area and a lot more easily 20W digital than 20W voice. I can even run WINMOR HF email.

If its TEOTWAWKI, then it won't matter. Everyone will be too busy surviving to dick around with HF radio in any mode.

As for the generator crack it's the same radio, the same (or less) power levels, and a digital interface uses an infinitesimal amount of power. Sure the netbook a little, but it'll run off solar easy.

another reason I'm hoping to get my hands on a RaspberryPi.... soon!

It cost a little more ($130) but have you seen the CuBox? In the end tho by the time you add power, screen, cables you could set up a used netbook from craigslist for the same price and less headaches

but not running off 4 AAs

aside:
have you guys looked into any modern methods of cutting down the amount of quoting of prior posts in your replies?

ar-jedi

Nope

The raspberry pi has been gaining popularity recently. Have you looked into the beagle board? It's a similar concept that's been out for a while. Do a google search on: wearable computer beagle board

thanks, I'll take a look!

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