Elk/Moose/Bear Rifle

I am considering purchasing a new rifle for my future hunts.
I have a old (20+ Yo) M77 270 my father gave me. I use it for deer hunting but I know it has seen a lot of action and I think I would like something a little bigger...

South Dakota has tags for Custer State Park Elk that is a once in a lifetime deal, so I want to get a rifle soon so in 5-10 years I can be proficient enough with it to ensure a humane kill if a shot presents itself.

All in all this new rifle would be a dedicated Elk rifle with the exception that I want to use it on a Moose or Bear Hunt someday. Grizzly Bear's in Montanta/Wyoming would be the biggest thing I would expect to harvest. I understand that many of the above have been taken with 270's and it all depends on shot placement, but I am thinking I would like something that has a little more energy at longer distances (450+ yd)

With that said I was leaning at a 300 Wby Mag. After reading on a number of forums and speaking with a few others I have expanded my options of calibers to include: 300 Win Mag, or possibly a 338 of some sort (Lapua or win mag). Anything more than that I just too large IMHO.

I am looking for some guidance/opinions of the community on the above calibers for the intended purposes. The trajectories appear quite similar on all three calibers to me. I don't know, maybe I am just splitting hairs here....

Thanks!

PS: The cost of quality ammunition is not a huge issue as I would plan to handload (cost of such would be a bigger factor).

Since you already have a .270 any of the .300 mags will be a good choise for you.

If you are looking for the ultimate Elk/Moose/Bear/Hog rifle, I would suggest the 375H&H. With the 375 you can put a bullet into the vitals via the long way... aka Texas Heart Shot and know you know the animal will go down for the count.

The trajectory of a 270 to 300 g bullet from the 375 is pretty much identical to 180 g bullet out of a 30-06.

My two favorite rifles for hunting are my 25-06 and my 375H&H. I pretty much leave my 30-06 in the gun safe now. The nice thing about the 375 is that it destroys less meat that either the 30-06 or the 25-06.

One of the 338 mags would also be a good option.

Here is a link to a website about the 375H&H:

http://webpages.charter.net/375magnum/index.htm

320pf

I don't have any grizzly experiance , but i wouldn't be confident with a .300 win mag against a mad sow running full speed at you.
if you hit an elk with one bad shot and it doesn't kill it, no big deal. wound a large male or female grizzly and there is a chance you could
be in danger.

375H&H is a good start.

Win Mag over Why Mag any day, ammo is easier to find.

I was recently looking for the same thing. I already have a 300 Win Mag, but I needed another rifle to hunt Brown Bear on a guided Sept. 19-29 Alaska hunt with my dad (I'm letting him use my 300 WM). I agonized over all options. I obviiously didn't want to get another redundant 300 mag. I wanted something that I might use on bear, elk, and moose as well. I eventually decided to get a 340 Wby, and could not be happier. Ammo is fairly expensive but not insane. The Cor-Bon 225-gr TTSX loads I've been shooting are accurate, cost about $66 per box, put out 4,800 ft-lbs at the muzzle, and still put out an insane 2,832 ft-lbs at 400 yds (hits only 13" low at 400 yds when sighted in 2-1/4" high at 100 yds). Thus, it hits at 400 yards about like a 30-06/.308 does at the muzzle.

I almost either (#1) got a 338 to have lower recoil; or (#2) got a big bore for super bone-crunching bear power. As to (#1), I ended up getting a Mark V Accumark, which wieghs 8-3/4 lbs out of the box. The recoil is not bad at all, especially with a shoulder recoil pad. But, if someone really doesn't like recoil, or hates spending over $20/box of ammo, it's probably not the cartridge for you. As to (#2), I decided it was more likely I would want to/get to use whatever rifle I get now on bear/moose/elk in North America than on an African safari. If I ever get to go on a safari, I'm sure I will be able to afford a big bore. Thus, the 340 Wby made a lot of sense for me, and I am very happy with the choice. Many other calibers will do the job, but a well-placed shot with a 340 Wby with a good bullet ought to kill anything on this continent with some to spare, and yet it can still shoot with power with a laser-like trajectory at elk at really long ranges.

Yes, I know a .270 and 30-06 will kill elk at decent ranges, etc. ... I also know that a Ford Taurus will drive me virtually anywhere I want to go. Sometimes, though, it's kind of neat to drive a Ferrari.

I was so settled on the 300 win that I purchased 64 cases. Now you folks have me thinking again!

What is the general consensus on the .35 Whelen?

I don't think I would go with the 35 Whelen if I already had a 270 as while it does give you a bigger bullet it is marginally larger. Even then, if I wanted to stick with the 30-06 case I would look at the 338/06 as there are tougher 338 bullets as they are needed for the 338 Win Mag and 340 Weatherby. This is a very old article I wrote about the 338-06 to show I have been a fan for a very long time:

http://www.quarterbore.com/library/articles/33806.html

The disadvantage remains that the the 338-06 is very limited in availability and if you go on a hunt somewhere you may have an impossible time finding ammo if your ammo gets shipped to somewhere other then where you are! It is also considerably less capable then the 338 Win mag which is the reason I would buy the 338 Win mag over the 338-06

I've chosen the .338 Win MAg for the same role. I think it is better balanced for North Americas heaviest game than the .375 H&H. My wish list includes the largest Alaskan bears, like Browns. So, while I would still personally opt for the .338, since you are omitting the largest bears, a .300 Win Mag with 200 or 220 gr premium bullets might be almost as good a choice.

If I was only getting one rifle, I'd go .338 WM instead of .35 Whelen, due to the Whelens range limitations on the heaviest game. The Whelen is a great old cartridge, but the .338 has an additional 100 yards effective range on it, all things being otherwise equal. If I already had a .338, I might consider a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 as a second gun for hunting in timber (to ~175 yards) on heavy game that was lighter to carry and kicked less than the .338 mag.

If you compare the ballistics between the 300 win mag and 338 win mag. The 300 Win mag will actually out perform the 338 win mag out past 500 yards in both velocity and muzzle energy plus its a flatter shooting caliber. However, under 500 yards the 338 win mag will have more muzzle energy.

300 RUM works well for all of the above. (Capable of the distance you were mentioning) (Rounds are not cheap, and best to stock up before a hunt)


45-70 is also agreat choice, but my Marlin is a 150 and under gun. (again rounds are not cheap, fairly easy to find)
I call it my DRT(Dead Right There) gun.

I have knocked deer off their feet at 100 yards, rolled hogs at 125 yards, and works very well on bear (Have only used for Black bear).

I do not make it out west to try elk,moose, and grizzly bear hunting. But I know folks that have and they say it works.



I know money is tight, and everyone wants a "Do it all gun", but I get different guns for different hunting situations.

If this is the case, then the "Ol' reliable" 30-30,30-06,308,300 Savage would be the go to guns. They did the trick for many years with the Ol' Timers.

I did not need my 300 RUM, but had the money, and I wanted one.

Same with my 45-70 (Actually girlfriend, now wife bought for me while we were dating).

9.3x62 or .375 Holland. I've taken both after moose. Honest three feet of penetration. Trajectory can be flattened with light bullets and hot loads, something in the 250 range.

If you want something really different, get a .54 caliber Hawken Rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZirWZXDXN4w

Check out this video, two large bison were harvested with a .54 caliber Hawken rifle.

My elk/mulie rifle these days is a .300 WSM and it gets the job done every time. If I were to hunt brown/grizzly bears, I would feel a bit more comfortable with a .338 (at longer ranges) and a .45-70 (at closer ranges), although as you have noted, many have been taken with smaller cartridges. I would rather err on the side of having too much gun rather than not having enough. The key is being able to accurately shoot whatever weapon happens to be in your hands at the time!

Just my $.02 worth.

I think that anyone asking for this sort advice probably doesn't have enough shooting experience to be contemplating shooting at animals the size of elk, and larger, with any shoulder fired weapon at 450+ yards ––- no offense intended, just an observation. Nobody has mentioned the downside of the larger calibers, which is that they require larger guns, i.e., longer, heavier actions and/or barrels to take full advantage of the higher capacity cases, etc. If your grizzly hunt time horizon is ten years or more out, I'd guess you'd be happier with a more general purpose rifle, such as the .30-06, for "everyday" use (you're gonna be lugging it over hill and dale, and maybe worse country) much more than shooting it, so light weight and comparatively short length are pluses. You could set aside a few bucks every month or year for the future purchase of a dedicated grizzly/moose rifle such as a .338 or .375 H&H, with some of the savings on ammo costs of the exotic large calibers that you really don't need for elk. Furthermore, a hefty portion of the cost of a rifle/scope combination is the cost of the scope, and you're talking about two different scopes for general purpose use on elk and deer (2-7x +/-), vs. a low magnification, wide field-of-view scope suitable for moose and bears in thick, close-quarters brush where you're most likely to have to deal with them. If you split the difference with a .300 Win. Mag, you wouldn't be too much under or over gunned for any of the proposed uses...

I don't have any personal experience with this round but my cousin killed a bison a couple of years ago with one. Dropped it with one shot.

I have been using the 45-70 for several years on Bear. But here in the north woods I never get a shot over 75-80 yards.

The 45-70 has been very effective.

For longer ranges I have a .338 Lapua

Your right, I have never hunted anything larger than a Deer. However I feel comfortable harvesting a deer at 450 yds, so I would take that shot on an Elk.

I am glad you mentioned the heavy cover that Moose/Bear are more likely to be in. I never considered that before. I was more concentrating on an Elk gun with not much thought going into the other game other than 'I would like to someday'

Are you saying that for Moose and Brown Bear that a person with a 300 Win. Mag. would be under gunned?

There is nothing in north America that can't be hunted with a 300, but I wouldn't want to try and turn a charging bear with one.

"Your right, I have never hunted anything larger than a Deer. However I feel comfortable harvesting a deer at 450 yds, so I would take that shot on an Elk."

You'd be foolish for taking a 450 yard shot at an elk with almost any shoulder-fired rifle. Show me how much energy you can deliver at that range, and I may reconsider, but unless you'[re talking 50BMG or etc., you shouldn't be shooting at elk at much beyond 300 yards with most .30 caliber rounds...

The 30 06 has killed more North American game than any other caliber, including the big bears.
I personally think anything from an '06 on up that you can shoot WELL is what you'll find to be good.
Go with something too big, particularly if you're not experienced, and the recoil will screw you up.
Keep weight of the gun in mind too, hunting up here is hard work.

That is why I want to get the gun now, so I can become comfortable enough with the gun when I do land the tags.


From the rounds I reloaded I am expecting over 2000 f*lb @ 400 Yd and around 1750 f*lb @ 500 yd. I expect the projectile to be moving well over 2000 fps yet (the Nosler Partion is suppose to open up down to 1800 fps).

so yes, I would take that shot with a 300 Win Mag.

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.